"may have been brave and loyal" Aren't those kinda the only requirements for Gryffindor? Besides, she was more loyal than Ron. She didn't abandon Harry out of jealousy.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Indeed, but she was constantly lauded as the smartest student in her year. J.K Rowling herself stated that if she needed something explained, she could use Hermione to do it because everyone reading would just trust that she was correct because we knew that she knew what she was talking about. Now, I'll never argue that she wasn't one badass lady who much more than earns her place in the house known for bravery and loyalty, but throughout the books, her biggest contribution to the trio and the series as a whole was always, first and foremost, her intelligence and logic. Being that those are her primary traits, that should have lead the Sorting Hat to place her in Ravenclaw, but, as I said, if that had happened, she wouldn't have been able to spend nearly as much time with Ron and Harry, so JK just placed her in Gryffindor.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Don't you think it's possible that maybe she was braver and more loyal than she was smart? The sorting hat tends to place you depending on which of those traits are most prevalent within you, not in comparison to others. A Slytherin could easily be smarter than a Ravenclaw, but they'd be sorted into Slytherin because their ambition is a stronger trait within them than their intelligence. A Ravenclaw could be braver than a Gryffindor, but they'd be put in Ravenclaw because their bravery was a stronger trait than their cleverness. According to your logic, Lily Potter, Severus Snape, Tom Riddle, and Dumbledore should also have been in Ravenclaw since they were all clearly the smartest and most talented students of their generation.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

While those examples were excellent at making your point, (with the exception of Tom, his cunning and willing to do anything for his own ends was clearly his most prominent trait) I still hold with my original assertion. Luna was just as brave and loyal as Hermione, yet less knowledgeable. Now, that is NOT to say that she wasn't smart, clearly she was very much so. However, if Luna's bravery, whilst equal with Hermione's, is considered by the hat to be a lesser trait within her than her intelligence, whilst inferior to Hermione's, then logic should dictate that a student that is just as brave yet even MORE intelligent, should be placed in the same house.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I don't understand how my example of Tom didn't fit, the stuff you put in parenthesis just reinforces the point I was trying to make. Like I said, the hat does not compare you to other students in your class. It has no way to do so since it might not have yet gotten to them. It just compares the traits within the wearer. Your last sentence is way too long. I'm having trouble following your logic. But as I understand it, you're assuming that Luna is equally as brave and loyal as Hermione, which may or may not be the case (I don't really think it is). This however, is inconsequential because, like I said, the hat cannot compare you to others in your class since it can only analyze one wearer at a time. Plus, intelligence isn't just about being knowlegeable it's also about being able to see things in different ways and use creative and unconventional methods to solve problems, something which Luna may have been better at than Hermione.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

First, to clear up what I meant about Tom. While he may have been talented, his most prominent trait above all of his other traits was his cunning and willingness to to ANYTHING to get his way. Those are the main requirements for Slytherin (except, of course, for pure bloodedness, but the Sorting Hat doesn't consider that all too important obviously). Also, exactly how is Luna any less brave than Hermione? She just as willingly stood up to all manner of evil right alongside the trio. Also, I do believe there's a difference between intelligence and having an open mind. True, the traits do more often than not coincide, but open mindedness does not equal intelligence and vice versa

by Anonymous 13 years ago

As someone who has experience with some very intelligent people and some background in psychology, intelligence isn't just how well you can memorize facts and bring them up later. It's more important that you can find ways to apply them to your situation and find ways to solve problems It's about finding the connections and using what you know in new ways. I think that's something Rowena Ravenclaw would have valued over memorization. BTW, it's assumed that Hermione was the best in her class, but it's not like we really had anyone to compare her to. As a Gryffindor, all her classes were taught with Slytherins as classmates. Plus, much of her success in school was more a result of hard work and studying that it was of being naturally gifted (at least that's how it seemed). The reason I though Hermione was braver was because she had much more to lose and she had to sacrifice more to help Harry.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

And referencing your example of Tom, don't you think that you could say the same about Hermione? It doesn't become apparent until later in the series, but her loyalty is the trait that is most prominent within her.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

(soccerfan25):Well, Hermione was always more than a memorizer. Who solved the potions logic puzzle beneath the trapdoor in SS? Who thought to disguise Harry with a stinging hex in DH? However, now that you mention it, I do now realize that there WAS a shift in her characteristics. In SS, there's no doubt her foremost trait was her knowledge. You're right, though, by the time we get to DH, while her knowledge is still an asset, it's her bravery and loyalty that by far shines brightest. Just as the sorting hat saw the future bravery in Neville, it must have seen it in Hermione as well. You've convinced me that it wasn't a simple plot device to set her in Gryffindor. Congratulations on a well thought out argument.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Thanks bro, I appreciate it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

She was hell of brave, too. She stood up and lied to Bellatrix of all people! Bellatrix was one crazy bitch and cast Crucio on her multiple times.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

She really could have gone either way.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

(taken as innuendo)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well Ron only left and said all of that stuff because he was wearing the locket horcrux.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

No.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

He was really feeling those things he just admitted them because he was wearing it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well, the sorting hat can kind of guess your destiny so it might have been able to figure that she would be needed there.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

And wormtail was also a gryffindor....even the sorting hat makes mistakes

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I think that wasn't a mistake.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I don't think Hermione was that smart. Pretty sure she just worked really hard.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

"it is our choices that make us what we truly are, far more than our abilities" Hermione's abilities (her intelligence) are undeniably important; however, they do not determine who she is as a person. Her choices (staying with Harry, risking her life multiple times for him) display her loyalty and bravery, distinct Gryffindor traits.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

JKR said that the sorting hat is NEVER wrong, even about Petteigrew. Making you automatically wrong.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Except Dumbledore himself questioned the Sorting Hat. Dumbledore's even never wrong-ier than the hat! :) But in all seriousness, I will have to STRONGLY disagree with Pettigrew's position. He was never brave or loyal to anyone but himself. He sold out his best friends to death and Azkaban. Even when presented the opportunity years later to clear his friend's name, he refused, as it would mean he would have to take his friend's place. That is the exact opposite of both loyalty and bravery. J.K may have created the universe, but I'm sorry, this is a blatant falsehood

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Pettigrew was shit at loyalty; that's undeniable. However, I think he had a few shreds of bravery, mainly stemming from when he hesitated in not killing or capturing Harry at Malfoy Manor. Even if his hand hadn't killed him, can you imagine Voldemort's wrath at such a disloyalty? Yet, he still hesitated, aware of the fact of Voldemort's horrible methods of punishments. I think that's brave. I just think Pettigrew's bravery was shrouded by his weakness, which is unfortunate, but I think he could've overcame it if he was a little less weak. It's like Ron. He left Harry and could've stayed away (making him disloyal), but he made the choice to come back. The Sorting Hat knew Pettigrew had the choice to use his loyalty and bravery, or let it fall by the way side, and he just chose the latter. Choices are dependent on the person itself, the Sorting Hat couldn't control that Pettigrew chose to revel in the weaker aspects of his personality, but it knew he had potential.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

He only hesitated because he owed Harry a life debt for stopping Sirius and Lupin from killing him in POA. Life debs are magically binding, so he literally couldn't refuse.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

He still had the potential. It was still mercy, and that was brave.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm not sure you understand. Harry saved his life. Pettigrew was now magically obligated to repay Harry. Pettigrew had literally no choice in the matter. It would be like if someone was aiming a gun at someone else, ready to shoot, and then a guy 10 times as strong as the gunman came and forced the gun out of his hands. The gunman was not merciful. He was forced. (cont'd)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

(TicTacAddict):Now, let's say, just for the sake of argument, that Pettigrew WASN'T forced and it WAS his own choice to hesitate. After he had sold out his best friend, his wife and their infant child to die, framed his other best friend so he got sent to Azkaban, refused to clear his name when presented the opportunity years later, killed a 17 year old boy, restored the most horrible, powerful dark wizard to power, knowing full well this could doom everyone in the entire world to extreme mental and physical anguish or even death, all of this only to save his own skin, it would take a hell of a lot more than just hesitating to harm one person to even begin to be considered brave.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Even if it was a magical obligation, it clearly says in the book he hesitates out of mercy. I think it's brave, and I still think he had the potential the display his Gryffindor traits, if he had given in to the weak part of his personality. So, I suppose we have to agree to disagree.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

is it just me, or is loyalty actually a hufflepuff trait?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It's a trait of both houses, just as intelligence is valued by both Ravenclaw and Slytherin (though somewhat different kinds of intelligence)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Ron should have been in Hufflepuff, Hermione should have been in Ravenclaw, Harry should have been in Slytherin, the only true Griffyndor is Neville Longbottom.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Ron belongs in Griffindor. With the rest of his family.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Go Neville! and go Dobby!!!

by Anonymous 13 years ago