+58 It is outrageous that the unconstitutional Student Prayer Act in Illinois somehow passed, amirite?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

religion should GTFO of america, it has not done any good, so no praying shold be allowed.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Whoah dude, chill. America was founded on religion. Just accept there are other people with different beliefs.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

That is a LIE, America is founded on the freedom FROM religion. The first immigrants wanted to get away from the persecution.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Someone mind explaining? And yes, while they did leave due to religious persecution, they left so they would be free to practice their OWN religion without fear of punishment. So technically...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

True, but my point still stands: There are going to be other people with other beliefs and we should just learn to accept that. That's why i don't go around shoving a bible down peoples throats.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Actually it was founded on the freedom TO practice their OWN religion. Get your facts straight

by Anonymous 13 years ago

@977993 (Lupus): Most of the founding fathers were deists.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It specifically says "This period shall not be conducted as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity for silent prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities of the day." so it's not unconstitutional.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Obviously they say that, so it will pass.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

exactly. There's a court case that set that standard. Engel v Vitale. it was a schol prayer case. court ruled that a school cannot have a specific prayer time or a prayer and require students to do so, however they may set aside a time of reflection as long as it is not required that they pray.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Chill out. This country WAS based on religion but it was also based off of freedom from religious persecution. If you don't want to pray, then don't. Read or something. It has no effect on you, but it gives the other religious students a chance to pray in the mornings, IF THEY WISH TO. From what I can tell they're not forcing you to convert to a certain religion. They're not persecuting your belief system. Chillax, bro.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Other than the fact that one of the major reasons of coming to the New World was to escape religious persecution, the United States was not based on religion whatsoever.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Every form of government has at least some small basis in religious teachings or ideas.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Show me an example of how the United States was founded on religion in any way.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

A lot of the first colonies were founded on principles of religious toleration, especially Pennsylvania. Heck, the PURPOSE of Pennsylvania was religious toleration.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

That does not make the United States a country founded on religion, just a country that tolerates all religious and non-religious peoples. As I said above... other than the fact that one of the major reasons of coming to the New World was to escape religious persecution, the United States was not based on religion whatsoever.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Since nobody has shown me an example of how the United States was founded on religion, I'll take the liberty to explain how it's not. A majority of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians. The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution. "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." - Article XI, Section III Thomas Jefferson stated that the power of the government is derived from the power of the governed, which is a departure from the traditional divine authority of kings. The United States is "in no sense founded on the Christian religion." - 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm just basing this off of what I learned when we studied America years ago. But religious tolerance also includes letting students pray at school. It's not meant to offend anybody, it's wrong to prohibit expression of someone's beliefs.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

We got bigger fish to fry.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

What does everyone have against this? If you WANT to pray during that time, DO IT. If you are NOT religious, DON’T. If you simply DON’T want to pray, the DON’T. Why is this such an issue?! Why can’t everyone respect everyone else’s right to make decisions? This is hurting NO ONE.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm not trying to bring up any other controversial issues, but that reasoning would realllllllllllllllly help a lot if everyone used it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Seriously! I don’t understand the conflict. It’s like people like OP sit at home and MAKE problems to get people angry. It’s really not necessary if everyone accepts that everyone else is allowed to have different views on things.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

it's a conflict because not everyone feels everyone can believe what they want. They believe what they believe is the only right one, and that they must shove their religion down peoples throats to "save" them or some other garbage.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well, it’s really ridiculous that people believe that. It’s okay to be whatever religion you want. It’s like people want to turn our government into a dictatorship. It’s so ridiculous that people can’t be openminded enough to allow a moment of silence for people that WANT to pray, and for people who DON’T want to pray to sit and look at the wall.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

We have something similar at our school except it's 45mins long and we can't read or anything, but even though it's boring as hell, no one complains that it's a violation of rights

by Anonymous 13 years ago

We had a moment of silence when I was in elementary school and most of the kids and teachers just used those moments to reflect or think. Of course a lot of kids just stared at the walls, hehe. And yeah, sure there were kids who probably prayed during those moments, but it's not like they forced ME to pray also.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

People can pray and are gonna pray whenever they want. No law is needed and I'm sure the students in Illinois aren't like " i've been waiting to be able to pray at school!" No, if you want to talk to God you're going to do it. This law is probably going to change absolutely nothing

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It's also known as the silent reflection act, for those who are atheist. I am agnostic leaning more towards atheism and I don't think it's a bad thing, it allows you to "reflect" on life. I like to meditate to help me clear my mind and reflect on my life. So I really see nothing wrong here. But then again I am a Canadian

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Its quite sad how we went from a country that said "in God we trust" to hating religion. i think people should have the freedom to pray at school, or where ever they want.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I don't understand why this is such a big deal. If I want ten seconds to "reflect on life", I'm not going to do it in school when I'm focused on schoolwork. People can pray whenever they like; giving them ten seconds at the beginning of the day is not going to change anything. I don't think it is unconstitutional, but it sure is one of the most unnecessary acts ever passed. We have other things to worry about.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I see what you mean about it being unnecessary, but it's definitely not unconstitutional, like so many people are saying.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

...and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation, UNDER GOD...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

...what EXACTLY are you trying to SAY...?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

the country was founded on religion, our founding fathers were hardcore Christians, but religion is freely practiced here and should stay that way so I don't see what the big deal is..

by Anonymous 13 years ago

ono 1. The United States was not founded on religion in any way. 2. Before you try to use the fact that "under God" is in the Pledge...it was added into 1954 for solely a diplomatic role. 3. Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You don't know you're history. They were Christians, a high majority of them. Where do you think our Constitution got its ideas from? What do you think they based right/wrong on? Christian principles and morals!!!

by Anonymous 13 years ago

@984055 (High_Flyer9): "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." —Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758 " no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities." —Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779 "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect." —James Madison, April 1, 1774 "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" the Treaty of Tripoli I think you should know your history and do...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Now, they weren't very smart, were they? I hadn't heard some those quotes. James Madison, I just lost a lot of respect for you. But either way, that proved nothing against the fact that every right/wrong is based on Christian morals and principles!!!

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Most religions have similar morals. They may differ slightly, but for the most part they preach to be honest and hard working among other things. Many of the founders may have been Christians, I'm not sure about that, but the point of the matter is that America was founded on the basis of free religion.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Where do you think most religions had their morals derived from?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Christianity wasn't the first religion...and saying that the country was formed based on a set of morals that also appear in Christianity doesn't mean that America was based on Christianity. Most people would agree that those are good morals, excluding thieves, murderers, etc.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

And the idea that they are good comes from Christianity! It was the first religion. Ever since creation, God had differentiated between right and wrong. If God wasn't there to do it, then how would we ever know what is right or wrong? All ideas would create pure chaos.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

http://humanknowledge.net/Philosophy/Metaphysics/Theology/Religion.html Christianity was not the first religion

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Pssh, the internet knows all. LOL. Jesus didn't found Christianity in AD 30, it has existed ever since creation, plenty before Jesus was sent to earth.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well then I could also make the case that any other religion has existed since the beginning. My point is that there were other governments and religions around hundreds of years before The New Testament. Also, morality is something we've learned through experiences. A few hundred years ago it was perfectly acceptable to have slaves and deny woman suffrage, now most people would recognize that as a sense of immorality, thus the amendments to the Constitution. In any case, the whole point is that many of the original Americans were fleeing religious persecution, they then founded America as a place for people to practice religion freely, it wasn't based on any religion AT ALL

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yes it was! Thats where morality came from!!! The sole idea that something is right or wrong is from Christianity. Why else would anyone believe others are right in telling them they're wrong?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Because morality makes sense. It makes simple, logical sense. Do you think atheists don't follow similar morals? Morality isn't just a religious idea.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It came from religion. It has been around for long before anyone alive today. Therefore, even if you aren't Christian, your morals have been shaped by Christianity.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Morality comes from society and our conscience. If somehow religion had never existed we would still follow certain social rules. We don't need someone to tell us not to murder, we know that it is wrong anyway.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

All of the most prominent Founding Fathers were Deists (Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and Thomas Paine). The U.S Constitution was designed by the secular and brilliant minds of these men, without any reference to religious morals, beliefs, or principles.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You realize that Straight_Pride probably has no clue what a Deist or even logic is, right?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Ha, yeah. I debated going "You don't deserve a dignified response lolwut."

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Just wondering... but if its only 10 seconds then why is it such a big deal to make it into an act? If people want to pray or have a silent reflection then why can't it be done before they go to school? I just don't see how this concerns school at all.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It's a little 10 second bit of silence. Not that big a deal.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Pst...you meant to hit NW.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

OHYA I hate this freakin mac

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Ours is a whole minute of silence. I mean, a minute isn't that long either, but I'm surprised it's only 10 seconds for most people. That seems like a really short amount of time to pray.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I see nothing wrong with this. Ten seconds, just ten seconds out of every day isn't a big deal al all. Really, how much would you really be missing? I go to a catholic school where we have a 2-3 minute long prayer every morning and a 45-50 minute mass once a week. We also have people who aren't Christian who go here, and they never complain about it. If we can handle about an hour taken out of each week, I'm sure you can manage less than one minute each week. It's also not like they're FORCING you to pray. You can take that time to reflect, study, doodle, or silently annoy those around you. :)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Ok america's RULES were technically based upon religion. The colonists that lasted longest at the beginning were the puritans. And however much I don't agree with things they had done I do understand that because of their CHRISTIAN based rules they survived. And thus the idea of our rules are based upon religious morals.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

uhhh Anthony? I live in Canada, and the only form of silent reflection we have that I'm aware of is listening to the national athem in the morning, schools are very non-religious here, unless you go to catholic or christian schools, or take world religion class.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Let the kids do whatever they want for religion, unless it is illegal or muslim.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Is it ironic that the question I have to answer to post this is 10+10?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Why the fuck pass this act? Putting the word Prayer Act into a public school system is just begging for lawsuits.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

If a child is from an Atheist family, they should not be FORCED to pray. What does that say about religion? That's sick, anyone who thinks it's okay to force someone to pray should just leave America. I can't believe some people have American citizenship with these beliefs, and some Immigrants aren't allowed simply because of where they're born. That's whats wrong - some people could care less about the constitution.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It's annoying due to the fact that I live in Illinois, but hilarious because I have my favorite teacher during the period that we have to do it. He has decided that during each moment of silence, he is going to awkwardly stare and slowly walk closer to a different person each day. And it will be hysterical.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Sorry, I tend to make a big deal out of things that violate the rights that are given to me in the first amendment.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

How does this violate your rights?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

The first amendment states that no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion shall be made. The purpose of the Student Prayer and Silent Reflection Act was to encourage the practice of religion.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

No it wasn't. You aren't being forced to do anything.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It's not about being forced to do anything. Putting a nativity scene in front of a government building isn't forcing anyone to do anything either, but that still violates the first amendment. The act's primary purpose is not secular. If its purpose was to be able to have students silently reflect at the beginning of the day, why was prayer mentioned so many times? Why not have students reflect on the bus or at their locker before the school day rather than wasting class time to do it? The act's principal effect advances religion. The act fosters an excessive government entanglement with religion. It fails all 3 components of the Lemon Test.

by Anonymous 13 years ago