+543 Pretend you are in a burning building, and for some reason there was a petri dish of 10 living, viable, fertilized 1 week old human embryos that could grow healthily, and also a 5 year old crying toddler in the same building. If you could only save one of them from the fire, you would choose to save the 5 year old, amirite?

by Anonymous 11 years ago

I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy the debate that comes along with this post.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

Who the fuck wouldn't save the toddler?

by Anonymous 11 years ago

hahaha yeah thats what I was thinking!

by Anonymous 11 years ago

We had this discussion in philosophy. I think most people would choose the toddler because she can show pain and distress, and it's human to try and help someone who is in pain. The embryos, on the other hand, don't seem as human as she is (keyword //seem//, I'm not trying to start an abortion debate), so you don't feel the need to protect. But from the utilitarian perspective, it would be best to save the embryos, since that would be saving 10 lives over 1. Of course, that's easier said than done.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

There's more than one utilitarian perspective on the subject, obviously the point of the post is that you can't equate embryos with human life. Saving the toddler could still be a utilitarian decision.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

It's not really utilitarian. One petri dish is not necessarily more valuable than a five year old.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

Well, the utilitarian perspective argues that whatever does the most good is right. One petri dish has the potential to become a life if it is saved. So in that sense, saving ten lives is better than saving one.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

The point of the post is to ask if potential lives are comparable to established human life. I could interpret it that the dishes were virtually worthless, and therefore saving the toddler was the utilitarian thing to do. You still need to decide how much each life is worth, and either can be utilitarian depending on your perception.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

I think I could shove a petri dish in my pocket, run and get the toddler, then get the fuck out of the building. Seems like the best option.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

They're in separate wings of the building. You only have time to make a mad dash for one before it collapses.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

You know, neither is always an option. I can lose eleven lives, but I don't have to live with the guilt of choosing. I do have to live with their death, though. As much as I hate to admit it, my answer is the same as pretty much everyone else's: the toddler.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

I wouldn't care about how everyone would look at me, but about what I think is best..

by Anonymous 11 years ago

Yeah, you'd probably be ostracized from everyone after choosing the embryos. I bet even hardcore Christians who are against abortion wouldn't want you saving the embryos. It's just the human perspective, if it doesn't show pain, it's not as alive. And just because I like backstories, why did the building catch on fire? How do I know about this mysterious petri dish? What's one single toddler doing here?

by Anonymous 11 years ago

It's a science lab. It was Take Your Kid to Work Day when a careless scientist mixed two dangerous chemicals together, causing an unstable substance that could catch fire at any moment. You're the scientist working on a project involving fertilization. When the substance caught on fire, the alarm was pulled and everyone got out except the toddler.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

It's a good thing chances are slim that I'll ever have to make this decision.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

Also the child (presumably) has a family and friends who have formed close bonds with him, and would probably be devastated if he died an avoidable death, whereas it's unlikely that anyone would form any kind of bond with a petri dish.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

While, possibly someone hoping to adopt one of those embryos when they're developed.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

There are plenty of other already-born humans to be adopted.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

I didn't say the embryos should be saved for adoption. I was just pointing out that if parents were hoping to adopt those embryos, they could have formed a bond with it.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

But the same kind of bond that a whole community of family and friends forms over 5 years with a child?

by Anonymous 11 years ago

Okay, the five-year-old would have more bonds, but they wouldn't necessarily be more powerful. A couple waiting for a promised child would be just as devastated as parents of a five-year-old.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

No, I'm sure the parents who are thoroughly emotionally attached to a being who can actually respond will be more in pain if their child dies, than a parent whose future adoptive embryo dies.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

The toddler has a family, which means an emotional connection with her family. Letting the toddler die would mean severing that connection. I doubt the parents of the embryos would have such a strong bond with them too, since the embryos haven't developed a personailty or interacted emotionally with their enviroment.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

There's a better chance that the toddler would survive as well because the embryos need to be in certain conditions. But I'm no expert.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

What was the point of this post? It's a loaded question that APPEARS to be aimed at pro-lifers. I could be wrong, but thats just how it looks.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

The toddler has a life. It has parent, friends, relatives that love it. The embryos don't have any of that.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

I would just leave. Fuck overpopulation!

by Anonymous 11 years ago

I, and at least 80% of the people who agreed with this post, would simply walk out of the building, saving neither the toddler nor the embryos. If a building was collapsing with me in it my immediate priority would not be "I have to go and help that child, who is apparently unable to leave the building unaided" but rather "I'd rather not be in a building that was falling down, later kid."

by Anonymous 11 years ago

That you for being honest. Destroying yourself in a fire by trying to save people wouldn't do anybody any good.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

I would definitely save the toddler. I'm not going out of my way to save embryos. Unless they were right there, I wouldn't save them even if I was the only person left in the building.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

Honestly, thinking about this I might choose the 10 human embryos. The value of life at any point is in the value of a human future. It would certainly be traumatic, but thinking about it I felt more attached to the 10 completely helpless embryos than to the five year old.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

1.) while they do have a chance at being a great positive factor in human growth, how do you know one (or more) wont be the next hitler, etc. 2.) overpopulation? Diminishing non-renewable resources?

by Anonymous 11 years ago

1) How do you know they won't be the next einstein etc The value of a human future isn't in their value to society but in the value of their future happiness (or sadness), their potential experiences and loves and losses they haven't had yet. 2) if we were at the threshold where 10 lives would bring us significantly closer to overpopulation I would save neither, but in first world countries this isn't a problem, and resources are limited only because of inequal distribution.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

>in first world countries this isn't a problem, and resources are limited only because of inequal distribution. Atta boy :')

by Anonymous 11 years ago

Are you just saying you'll save the embryos because you believe it's the right choice or because you believe that's the best choice to benefit society? From an outside perspective you can say that's the best choice, but when it comes down to it would you really leave the five year old? The major difference here I would say is one can and will feel horrible pain whereas the other, although many, will die not knowing/feeling.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

No, the major reason for my choice is number 1 and not number 2. I only mentioned number 2 because it was brought up by the anonymous comment.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

That's great a great scenario. I'd find a petri dish that is full of eggs, jizz in it, and then take this petri dish that has a million fertalized embryos in it with me. I'm pretty sure the toddle has super powers and can take care of itself. Why else would it be in a genetics laboratory without a mum.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

The Catholic answer would be to save the toddler because Catholics don't believe in IVF, and if you think about it, the death of a toddler would affect more people such as parents and siblings because they've been able to share memories with the child.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

I don't know. I'm almost leaning towards the embryos, because they are completely helpless, and the child has a chance, however slim, of escaping by his/her self.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

To anyone who would save the embryos; Think of the the look in a mother's eye when you tell her that you let her child burn to death.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

We had a similar discussion in one of our classes, talking about utilitarianism and Dostoevsky's 'Crime and punishment'. The difference was that you had to choose between a healthy young man with a bright future in front of him and a severely crippled child who won't ever be able to take of himself. Now, who would you choose? Ah, but the catch is that the handicapped child happens to be your only son. Our class agreed most people would save their own kid, because you know, it's YOUR kid. The connection you have with him is way bigger than with some random stranger, however more useful to society he may seem to be.

by Anonymous 11 years ago

If they're on different sides of a building how do I know that there are people to save. Assuming I'm equal distance from each. If not I'll get whatever is closer.

by Anonymous 11 years ago