Suggest A Photo

You disagreed. (Undo) (Show Numbers)

80% agree
20% disagree
Post
  • Featured on the home page on Feb 22nd 2013
  • Post Of The Day on Dec 2nd 2012

Agreed

fuzalaThisBlackChickcremep0psTYPOB3CKVHMaximumnerdpeace_love_happinesscoletteCanadian_NinjarobertohoskinsEesathisisnotaudreyjustwondering28lexaluffx2502manKashuBasunolivelovemusic12ReadzlucichLegit_LatinWinniethePoohsaywhenCherryBlossomB10ckH34d_Jojo_yeahithoughtsoCaptainspadevatoreEriREBEKKAHMusicIsAGiftslairInu_chanAnnajoy97BetterThanEzra1119Altoid_Freak_250IchLiebeDichPiperTheSlayerchiddybang_Ashlie_Lillierockstarrukiajpn518Sledgepearly_whitesStacytheHarlotLookingpasttheglassIsItBetterYetThatbitchLoulouuu_x

Disagreed

CombatSkillSaphirastill_no_inspirationriteamiHappy_penguinTheBlindManCocaia12912ninja_tunaSergExploding_ChickensWhackatagYouveJustBeenTrolledJesseParkerPurpleGumDropWunderscoreSuzywaowobbuffetKimmidollSnickereldoritohiimriteHoloceneScientistCodayLenRashedmstarmachValidationdanceanidancebezoarusMike_HawkthemissingsockWatchful_questioneerhahaimrightGrumiosoberlikekeshaTylerMayhemDurden

Favourited

PurpleGumDropInari
Human beings have free will

Top Comment

Admin has free will to make awful potd choices

+16161 See / Add Replies

MyHotHotJam MyHotHotJam

Comments

nope..even when you think you do-it aint free. your thoughts and way of thinking is determined subconsciously by your surroundings and mental state. m telling you as a graphic designer ;]

-5914 Reply

CombatSkill CombatSkill

In response to “nope..even when you think you do-it aint...

But that's my subconscious mind. I am my conscious mind, and that can oppose my subconscious mind, proving that I have free will, even if that is not the main driving force in my mind 100% of the time. See my comment below.

I have a jar of 50 cent coins that I haven't used. Just because I don't use them doesn't mean I don't have them.

+161821 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “I like you. (y)

(goo) Really? Have a follow

+99 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

you don't actually know for sure. I would like to believe we have free will, but it's likely that we don't

+231 Reply

flynSpaghettiMonster flynSpaghettiMonster

I actually can prove that. I just stopped breathing for one minute, in a room with more or less clean air. Nothing would ever prompt me to do specifically that, and in fact it is in direct opposition to what I would do if left totally alone (animal instinct). Since my cerebrum can oppose my cerebellum, I have free will.

+10133 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “I actually can prove that. I just stopped...

I don't think that proves anything..

+9156 Reply

still_no_inspiration still_no_inspiration

In response to “I don't think that proves anything..

All thoughts and actions are controlled subconsciously, including your decision to stop breathing - and my decision to type this (according to me)

-314 Reply

still_no_inspiration still_no_inspiration

In response to “All thoughts and actions are controlled...

This is interesting...From what I understand, you're saying the base of all our thoughts is from our subconscious, correct? But if at any point we are able to deviate from the path set out by out subconscious, would that not be free will?

If I built a foundation for a building, and ordered my son to finish it according to the plan, but he followed his own plans, was that building not designed by him? In this analogy, I'm my subconscious and my son is me, my conscious.

+22 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “This is interesting...From what I understand...

I don't think you can deviate from your subconscious; It's there at all times.

-112 Reply

still_no_inspiration still_no_inspiration

In response to “I don't think you can deviate from your...

I don't mean change what your subconscious says. I mean your subconscious is always telling you to do stuff, but you can, if you want, do the opposite. For example, your subconscious would tell you to continue breathing unless there is some kind of toxin or irritant in the air, but you can actively stop breathing if you so wished. Your subconscious still tells you to continue, but you consciously decide not to.

+44 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “I don't mean change what your subconscious...

Anything you do is dictated by your subconscious. Your decision to stop breathing is controlled by your subconscious just like everything else. You can't over-ride it; you might think you can but you can't. We're trapped.

-66 Reply

still_no_inspiration still_no_inspiration

In response to “Anything you do is dictated by your...

Have you ever noticed how you don't really choose what you like or dislike, what you're afraid of, or even think - like when you're pissed off but you know you shouldn't be but can't help it? These are little things but all the action goes on over your head - you just get the decision and enforce it blindly (not that you have a choice)- not the most compelling arguments i know but i'm not a great debater

011 Reply

still_no_inspiration still_no_inspiration

In response to “Have you ever noticed how you don't really...

I'm not sure I understand you. I understand that the subconscious lays the foundations for all actions, but it by no means controls them the whole way. I dislike the colour pink, and would never want to wear it. That is the foundation, which would result in me never wearing pink in my life. However, if one day I decide to wear a pink shirt, for no reason at all, just for the hell of it, my subconscious did not tell me to.

It's like lucid dreaming. Dreams are normally controlled by your subconscious, but once you know what's going on, you can make conscious (not subconscious) decisions.

If it were true that the subconscious is all powerful within out minds, then by appealing to it, advertisers can force us to buy their products and there is nothing we can do. Even after finding out about a subliminal message, we will still buy the product. In reality, we may still feel compelled to buy the product, but end up not doing so because our conscious minds tell us not to, overriding the subconscious which you can feel pushing you toward buying it.

+88 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “I'm not sure I understand you. I understand...

I'm afraid i'm really bad at explaining my thoughts... But the guys underneath are doing a much better job - i agree with what they're saying...

0 Reply

still_no_inspiration still_no_inspiration

In response to “I'm afraid i'm really bad at explaining my...

Ah, I think I see what you're saying. This is more of a preset universe thing rather than simply a lack of free will. If my nature is programmed a certain way, it influences my decision making process. Like an AI in a game, if you know the 'source code' of my nature, you can predict where it will lead my decisions. The reason we appear to have free will is that there are many millions, if not billions of variables, most within out brains and thus not measurable. If we could map someone's brain at a cellular level or below, we can predict their actions. They may think of many possibilities, and may pick the one that they would not normally do to screw up the test, but that's only because it was in their nature to pull that sort of shit.

If that right? If so, I agree with you. this would also eliminate the many worlds theory because that only exists based on free will being unpredictable.

Now, I still agree with the post, because even if our actions are predetermined, it is technically still free will. It is our own brains that predetermine the outcomes. The subconscious still only does the foundations of thoughts, and the conscious still carries them through freely, thus it is ...

0 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “I'm afraid i'm really bad at explaining my...

free will. This explanation doesn't remove free will, but just states that it's outcome is predetermined. As long as we don't do the most probable action, it is because of active thought. Free will simply means that we can do things in opposition to what logic (or instinct) would dictate.

0 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “free will. This explanation doesn't remove...

I don't think free will necessarily equates to active thought. I'm not even sure what your distinction of subconscious and conscious thought is. Are you saying conscious thought is the act of questioning and reviewing your thought process?
Just knowing that an outcome is predetermined almost essentially means it is not free will, because it already means that there is no other way to go, ergo you are trapped to abide by one path. I do know what you mean though. Assuming that there is only one outcome to life, that doesn't mean we are trapped or constrained in any way to be unable to live life however way we want to.

0 Reply

Ueki Ueki

In response to “I don't think free will necessarily equates...

Although our choices a predetermined, they're predetermined precisely because free will exists. Without free will, we would follow instinct, and our actions would be fixed in a different way. Free will in each individual can be seen as a different type of instinct because active thougth results in fixed actions, but in humans as a whole, we follow different wills based on different brains. For the most part, all deer act the same, do we can conclude they all follow the same set of rules. Most humans however act differently so we can say each of us follows a different set of rules, ie have our own wills. We're not forced to follow anything, and all limitations are self imposed. If our brains limit themselves, the were as free as we let ourselves be. Nothing but ourselves stop us, so I count that as free.

0 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “Although our choices a predetermined, they're...

I think you're confused about what free will is. Free will is the ability for our conscious minds to make decisions instead of our subconscious thoughts. Subconscious thoughts aren't what we are supposed to do instinctively. Even though you chose not to breathe, it could still mean that your subconscious thoughts made that decision for you.

0 Reply

Saphira

In response to “I think you're confused about what free will...

And our conscious minds can make decisions. It's just that it makes decisions in such a way that if you know a certain personality at the most fundamental level, you can predict the decision. Basically, if you know you're making a decision, it's a conscious decision, but if you're not thinking about it, it's purely subconscious.

Like in rock paper scissors, after a long chain of both putting out the same rock, you think to put out paper, but then think the other guy thinks the same and puts out scissors, so you decide on rock, but it occurs to you that he may have gone that far and put out paper, so you then decide on scissors, and the cycle continues. However, you have to make a move so your thought stops somewhere. Holy crap I think that's proof. When subjected to precisely the same situation with different strangers (it was an orientation exercise in school) my cyclical thoughts did not always stop at the same points. If there is the same input, and different output, then there must not be a set path.

0 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “free will. This explanation doesn't remove...

I'm sorry for the lack of reply but I just typed in a huge text and then rereead it and deleted it because it sounded like the ramblings of a madman; it's kinda clear in my head but on paper i just lose it.. so I cowardly and shamefully back out of the discussion..

0 Reply

still_no_inspiration still_no_inspiration

In response to “I'm sorry for the lack of reply but I just...

I know that feel, bro. My argument was pretty much like that the whole time. I do see your point though.

0 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “I'm not sure I understand you. I understand...

I don't think that's what CombatSkill meant. Yes, you go through your life normally, breathing, and you can choose not to. But the only reason you wanted to stop breathing was to disprove someone's theory that there wasn't any free will. The only reason you ever thought of not breathing was because it was in your nature to explain your reasoning. In the end, your decision to halt breathing was already predetermined by the other person's action to post his comment, and by your nature.

+11 Reply

Ueki Ueki

In response to “I actually can prove that. I just stopped...

Consider this, your conscious mind can only make decisions based on your sub-conscious desires. You have limited free will, but only within the parameters of what your sub-conscious sets for you. Sure, you chose to stop breathing of your own volition. But, would you have stopped breathing had you not felt it important to provide proof to your statement? It's hard to imagine being in that situation, but what would you have done if not-breathing for that minute was not worth the satisfaction you'd get from proving the point? You would be capable of repeating the action, but would you ever realistically find the will-power to do it? Arguably, you would be unable to do it. I submit to you that it is impossible to do anything without a sub-conscious motivator. Even people that act selflessly do so because they get satisfaction out of helping others. Even if this is not the case, then perhaps the guilt of not helping others would be too much for them to bear.

I'd argue that what the body can do and what the mind will allow the body to do are two separate things. "Will" falls on the "allow" side.

0 Reply

Mike_Hawk Mike_Hawk

In response to “Consider this, your conscious mind can only...

Well in that case, yes. It's impossible to do something you don't, on some level, want to do. If I were stuck in a bear trap, where there were a lot of bear around, I wouldn't want to cut off my leg, but I 'un-want' that less than being eaten by a bear, so I do it, because want is relative, so technically, I did want to cut off my leg.

However, I think want belongs to the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. The subconscious aspect of want is that you can't control it The conscious aspect of want is that it doesn't control you. I can want many things, but only go for a few because of a decision I made based on how much I want them, or their implications. If I had no free will, I'd just do what felt better at the moment, or not consider the implications. That would be being a slave to my lowest level of want.

Also, you subconscious is a part of you, so anything it limits doesn't really take anything away from you. It ay ot be your decision to want something in the first place, but since you do, you make the decision to get it, or save up for something you may want more in the future.

0 Reply

B10ckH34d B10ckH34d

In response to “I actually can prove that. I just stopped...

Well, perhaps it was your desire to prove free will existed, or perhaps an innate desire to become more impulsive and spontaneous, generated by a mixture of nurture, environment, experience (controlled by the former 2), and personality (controlled by the former 3).

I think that if someone were to know the speed and location of every single particle in the entire universe, then we, as humans, could be predicted the same way any other thing could be. After all, we're just a bunch of arranged particles, and while we're in control of our thoughts, our thoughts are products of theoretically predictable things, assuming the first statement could ever be possible.

0 Reply

Watchful_questioneer Watchful_questioneer

All of our actions are predetermined by neuron paths through our brains. Those neurons themselves are simply an arrangement of atoms that are used to send action potentials into other bundles of atoms. If we get down to the molecular level everything we think, everything we feel, everything we say, everything we do is controlled by sensory inputs and predetermined neural pathways. When you read the word cat you are predetermined to imagine a feline instead of a moon by the way your neuron pathways are layed out. This is true of every thought in your head and every action for your body.

+10102 Reply

TheBlindMan TheBlindMan

In response to “All of our actions are predetermined by...

You've managed to make something that many see as bleak sound beautiful.

+44 Reply

Len Len

In response to “All of our actions are predetermined by...

What determines the thought process of a person with no senses?

0 Reply

Ueki Ueki

In response to “What determines the thought process of a...

I was intrigued by your question and not being anything close to a neurobiologist myself I went and did some research. From what I found it seems that a child born without any of the five senses would basically be a corpse. Without any sensory inputs the brain would have nothing to base decisions on besides the parts of the body controlled by the autonomic nervous system which controls bodily actions like digesting and breathing. The child would have neural pathways in the brain but because these pathways grow and change as we age based on sensory inputs the child's neural pathways would be next to useless. The child would most likely be reduced to base animal urges such as hunger and thirst and would not be able to do much of anything.
As for the question of free will I stand by my statement from before, a child with no senses would still have it's actions predetermined they would just be a much smaller scope of actions.

+11 Reply

TheBlindMan TheBlindMan

If you could, theoretically, know the location, and speed of every atom and subatomic particle in the universe, then I believe with complete omniscience you could precisely simulate the future, meaning there is only one possible outcome. Therefore, nothing is truly random, we can only be unable to predict it.

This applies to humans; if nothing is random, and everything is predictable given an omniscience that we can never attain, then we are bound by physics to make a certain decision or action from the beginning of time. If that can be called free will, then yes, we do have it

+341 Reply

Watchful_questioneer Watchful_questioneer

In response to “But we can't predict everything...

That's true, but the fact that we can't predict it doesn't mean there isn't a single possible outcome. The fact is, there still is.

I believe that the existence of free will depends on whether or not it matters that we can't know the one possible outcome (unless there is a God that can know it, or divinity)

0 Reply

Watchful_questioneer Watchful_questioneer

In response to “But we can't predict everything...

I just killed about half an hour watching this guy's videos. Very fascinating.

0 Reply

Altoid_Freak_250 Altoid_Freak_250

In response to “No shit.

This isn't a "no shit" post.

+232631 Reply

Len Len

In response to “This isn't a "no shit" post.

it is if your lazy.

+662 Reply

Qeez Qeez

We don't have free will since everything we think is part of chemical connections. We don't decide these...

022 Reply

Anonymous OP

In response to “We don't have free will since everything we...

Wait, do we have free will or do we not have free will? this is a contradiction to the post

+66 Reply

MusicIsAGift

In response to “We don't have free will since everything we...

Why would you make a post saying that humans have free will and then turn around in the comments and say otherwise?

+77 Reply

Statefarm

From their own perspective, everyone has free will. I can decide whether to eat vanilla ice cream or chocolate ice cream, it's up to what I want, but in a larger perspective, I'm going to pick one or the other. Nobody knows what it is I'm going to pick, and in the moment, I am making the choice, but there is one set way that things will turn out.

So yes. Also, no.

+10101 Reply

caylarose caylarose

How do you define free will?

-112 Reply

Anonymous OP

True free will is impossible. Imagine you're faced with a decision of two options - taking biology at college or taking chemistry. For whichever reasons you choose to take biology. If time was reset back to the exact moment you were born, with the exact same situations and circumstances at that moment, there would never be a time where you take chemistry instead of biology, because the cause of events wouldn't have changed. See where I'm getting at? Every progression of decisions you make, from birth, due to chemical and electrical reactions in your brain spurring them, is pre-determined.

+10133 Reply

Whacka Whacka

I put no just to be a smart ****! Loki'd!

-3141 Reply

Anonymous

Man, we were on a two day good POTD streak too.

+13131 Reply

name name

We have no choice but to have free will

+44 Reply

Simon

Admin has free will to make awful potd choices

+16161 Reply

MyHotHotJam MyHotHotJam

Holy. Crap. By most standards I consider myself a dedicated and loyal Amiriter but lately this site makes me want to push my finger through my eye socket into my brain and swirl it around until I don't have the free will to do so.

+991 Reply

John_MacTavish John_MacTavish

I believe each POTD should be like a little segment that describes and altogether shows the awesomeness of Amirite and the Amirite community. This if not one of those. Although it has brought on some interesting debates, it's just not one of the posts that shows what Amirite stands for. Broad topics like this are overdone. And to be honest (call me paranoid), but the way the OP has asked and nudged in questions to no one in particular in this comment section made me wonder if this was specifically written by a mod or something. We want a good mix of POTDs that are witty and creative. There's been select few that have been great, but overall, not really. I'm just disappointed by the direction this site is going. So many regular users are disappearing from site. I've never been a heavily participating user on Amirite, but I have been around for awhile and have enjoyed everything that goes on on here. Please, admin&mods. Don't let this site go into the wrong direction, and keep Amirite for what it stands for.

+4621 Reply

TheSuperLur TheSuperLur

In response to “I believe each POTD should be like a little...

Did you not read the comments? This is some of the most interesting shit I've read all week. The same week I started Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe and started a course in ethics. This POTD has answers that spring from psychology all the way down to quantum mechanics and the answer (if we can ever prove one) could affect the core beliefs of world religions. The range of debate this POTD sparks is EXACTLY what amirite is about. Yesterday's POTD was hilarious, today's is philosophical. I dont see a problem.

011 Reply

MartellusBoss MartellusBoss

Remember when the POTDs used to be clever, original thoughts, instead of generic statements?

+13141 Reply

Admiral_Beena Admiral_Beena

Anonymous OP

In response to “Remember when the POTDs used to be clever...

Back in the day, when they wouldn't have deleted this comment just because it draws attention to their deleting of comments.

+22 Reply

Anonymous

We have some excellent and very funny POTDs with strong scores lined up over the next few weeks. We try and add some serious and light-hearted ones but the difficulty is getting the correct mix but I'm sure over the next few weeks you guys will like the POTD's we have in store!

044 Reply

Amirite Amirite

In response to “We have some excellent and very funny POTDs...

I hope so. You've had some really good ones the past few days, so keep it up!

+33 Reply

Altoid_Freak_250 Altoid_Freak_250

In response to “We have some excellent and very funny POTDs...

But... shouldn't POTDs get their strong scores from becoming POTD? If you use posts that already have good scores, that is just trying to make the site look more popular than it actually is. You're just using the better posts from the past.

+11 Reply

speckleasme speckleasme

In response to “But... shouldn't POTDs get their strong...

The scores are irrelevant when deciding a POTD - its the post that matters and all posts are treated fairly. The fact that some POTD already have good scores shows they are good posts

022 Reply

Amirite Amirite

In response to “The scores are irrelevant when deciding a...

So then it's just a coincidence that all of the POTDs from the past have very good scores while all of the more recent ones have lesser scores? To get these "good posts" you speak of, you have to look back at the good posts of users who have left.

+11 Reply

speckleasme speckleasme

I think it's generally accepted that the body is guided by physical and chemical processes. Since your brain is not separate from your body, it too is governed by physiological processes.

There was a study that showed people made (simple) decisions about 7 seconds before they realized it. The implication being is that they are therefore not actually making the decisions consciously.

http://www.wired.com/science/di.../mind_decision

+11 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

Yeah, but the Democrats want to tax it and the Republican want to cut it as an entitlement!

0 Reply

independentRay

Oh goodness B.F Skinner's debate.

+11 Reply

Cellar_Door Cellar_Door

I don't know if humans have free will! Do you feel you have free will at the voting booth, when you've heard all the good crap they wanna do, and yet they hide the bad crap, then after their elected, your sorry you even voted for the person! Some free will, when evil people intervene with their evil schemes to alter that free choice!

0 Reply

harold5187 harold5187

Please login or create an account to make a comment.

Sort comments by: Replies Date Score Loves

Find out your friends' opinions

Amirite is the premier opinion-based social network where people from all around the world discover, debate and discuss today's hottest issues. Share your perspective to the world and interact with like-minded individuals on breaking news, hot topics and controversial issues now!

With that many angles, the discussions on Amirite will open your eyes to a panoramic view of your world that you won't get anywhere else, allowing you to see the big picture and discuss it.

Every opinion matters on Amirite.

Sign up to have your opinion heard!

It only takes a second.
Connect with Facebook, Twitter or Google.

or create an account with your email...

Sign Up Already Have An Account?

Login to your Amirite account...

Login Forgot Your Details? Need An Account?

Enter your email address and we'll email you your account details.

Send Details Back To Login Form

Login using...

Login

Forgotten username or password?
We'll send you your username and a new password.

Email Address

Login

Sign up to have your opinion heard!

Show posts as Grid List

By creating an account you indicate that you have read and agree to abide by our rules.

Create My Account