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88% agree
12% disagree
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Agreed

Arob44JamesDW2Watchful_questioneerBlue_eyed_readerriteamijustwondering28PhilboydStudgecookiedoughjacobhixjenferisjapaneezlt2010Ryeguy13EthanLeyTheFleaADSaaronredsapphireAzaknuxvomicaChuckTom

Disagreed

WunderscorefuzalaChild_Of_Gallifrey

Favourited

Nobody :(
To be punished one must know he has been punished.

I don't think that's true

there are probably times when I've suffered
where I didn't know I was being punished o.O

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “I don't think that's true there are probably...

The post doesn't say "to suffer"- it says "to be punished", implying that punishment is done to teach a lesson, which it does not do unless the guilty party knows that there is a lesson to be learned.

0 Reply

Watchful_questioneer Watchful_questioneer

In response to “The post doesn't say "to suffer"- it...

a lesson is not mandatory to fulfill the definition of punishment

I explained it more to OP below

one definition of punishment is

"to subject to pain, loss, confinement, death, etc., as a penalty for some offense, transgression, or fault"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/punish?s=t

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “a lesson is not mandatory to fulfill the...

Hmm, well it strikes me as a characteristic of punishment to actually let people know why they're suffering. Otherwise, it's not effective. So denotatively, you're right, but I saw the post more as "to achieve the desired effect of punishment".

I wonder which OP meant.

0 Reply

Watchful_questioneer Watchful_questioneer

In response to “The post doesn't say "to suffer"- it...

Don't do horrible things to other people or you will be punished by having horrible things done to you. Is that not justice?

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

Those times during which you suffer are not attributed to punishment unless you know you are being punished. Suffering does not always indicate punishment. In fact you may think life is good while being punished because you are blinded to an even better life -- one that's no longer available to you because you are being punished.

0 Reply

Arob44 OP

In response to “Those times during which you suffer are not...

I'll give you an example

say someone wants to punish me with the silent treatment

I might not notice that I'm being given the silent treatment
but I'm still being punished
since I am given the silent treatment

another one
say someone puts itching powder in my shirt as punishment

well
it would itch
and I might think that I was just feeling itchy

I was being punished
without knowing it

but I was still feeling the miserableness that comes with punishment

if someone gets revenge on me
and I think it's an accident

I was still punished
that doesn't change just because I thought it was an accident
and not a punishment

just because I think something
doesn't mean it's true

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

Recidivism truly does come into play in most cases...

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

Good points, will have to consider further.

My thinking is that when you punish someone, you might want them to feel sorry for what they had done so they will change their future behavior. Seems like the punished should be aware of the causal relationship to be properly punished.

But there may be other goals. For example, if someone offends you, you exact your revenge using pain, humiliation, etc. but is it really punishment if the causal link is missing? From your perspective punishment has been dealt out, but if the target thinks it was an accident I'm thinking he has not been punished.

It might be more clear in the situation where the person punished has a good day rather than a great day, due to punishment. Since he doesnt know he could have had a great day, was he really punished? I say no unless he knows the better day was taken away because of something he did. Without that knowledge there was no punishment.

Another thought. If I give someone the silent treatment I think they feel bad and are therefore, in my mind, punished. But in their mind, if they never even noticed, or perhaps even enjoyed it, are they punished? I don't think so.

0 Reply

Arob44 OP

In response to “Good points, will have to consider...

if someone puts a stink bomb in my locker
as revenge

and I think it was placed there by accident

I was still punished because the stink bomb would make my day worse
even if I didn't know it was a punishment

sidenote:

there's also a reply button
so the person knows who you're replying to

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “if someone puts a stink bomb in my locker as...

Without knowing why the stink bomb was placed there you can't know if you were punished or not. Perhaps a friend, concerned that you might get the West Nile virus, placed mesquito repellent bomb in your locker.

0 Reply

Arob44 OP

In response to “Without knowing why the stink bomb was placed...

but if the intention of the person was to punish me
I was punished

punishment means

""to subject to pain, loss, confinement, death, etc., as a penalty for some offense, transgression, or fault"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/punish?s=t

if someone inflicts suffering on me
their intention is what makes it a punishment

still fulfills the meaning of punishment

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “but if the intention of the person was to...

Can you be punished if you don't think you're being punished? I would think the answer is no, but If it's the punisher's intention that determines the question of punishment you would have to answer yes.

0 Reply

Arob44 OP

If somebody rapes a nine year old child. Serves two years in prison. Gets out and then rapes another nine year old child. Who is really to blame?

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “If somebody rapes a nine year old child...

the rapist

can't blame anything or anyone else generally
unless you're medically insane or something

people will say "I did x because y happened to me"
I killed because my childhood was horrible

still no excuse

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

Agreed. What is the proper punishment?

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “http://www.corrections.com/news/article/28290-w...

I agree with that! So simply take them to a wall outback and shoot them in the head. Does that not solve... Everything?

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “I agree with that! So simply take them to a...

maybe not kill them

corporal punishment does not mean kill

it's included
with other physical punishments

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “maybe not kill them corporal punishment...

Why mess around with it? Kill them.

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “Why mess around with it? Kill them.

I feel like you're messing with me (wary)

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “I feel like you're messing with me (wary)

I'm really not. Let's say a rabid dog mauls a child. The child after getting 50 shots in its stomach is still traumatized for life because of the vicious attack. Instead of killing the dog they determine that it is the fault of the disease, not the dog. Therefore a judge gives a one month penalty to the dog. It stays in a cage and froths at the mouth. While people attempt to fix the disease. They release the dog with an ankle bracelet in a public park. The Dog attacks and mauls the first person that walks by. Simple fix. Shoot the dog. Problem fixed.

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “I'm really not. Let's say a rabid dog mauls a...

I feel like that might be a faulty analogy

because the rapist isn't rabid

and if there was a cure for the dog
I would prefer that the dog get cured
because dogs can change as well

all kinds of life have something to offer in this world
human, dog, or otherwise

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “Agreed. What is the proper punishment?

Castration and skinning alive for starters............

0 Reply

freespeechfreelancer freespeechfreelancer

There is a cure for people who rape children. Go to prison for it, and then do it again?

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “There is a cure for people who rape children...

the cures include
therapy
medicine
and skills that deal with control
and corporal punishment

there may be some that need the death penalty
but I don't think they all would

I'm talking about rapists in general
not particularly pedophile rapists

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “the cures include therapy medicine and skills...

What if it was your child? What if it was done again a year later by the same person? For me it would never go to court.

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “the cures include therapy medicine and skills...

I hear child rapists don't really respond to therapy. That crime is so horrible that I would not take the chance of it ever happening again. I would lock him up for life if I was sure he would never get out. Since I can't be sure of that I would want him executed. Why take the chance that another 9 year old gets raped.

Of course, it seems unlikely but there could be extenuating circumstances that should be taken into consideration.

0 Reply

Arob44 OP

In response to “I hear child rapists don't really respond to...

well you have to understand pedophiles suffer from temptations that most don't even have to worry about

so they don't have that many help groups to help before anything happens

not that I'm excusing such behavior

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “I hear child rapists don't really respond to...

Here they are released before marijuana users in many cases. I don't believe in putting them away for life. People who work will have to pay for a percentage of that for the rest of their lives. One 9mm bullet is far cheaper to do away with the same trash Wmg

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “Here they are released before marijuana users...

that's why you go with corporal punishment

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

So no sympathy for the victim?

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “So no sympathy for the victim?

never said there wasn't sympathy for the victim

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

All the sympathy goes to the victim. However, it is sad that certain people with potential for good ended up so bad.

0 Reply

Arob44 OP

In response to “All the sympathy goes to the victim. However...

People who rape preteens have potential? Please explain.

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “People who rape preteens have potential?...

each individual is different

that includes rapists

there are many cases where they were able to turn around

do you know some rapists were raped themselves?
someone rapes you when you were a kid
"pay it forward" and rape a kid when you grow up

it's a vicious cycle

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “People who rape preteens have potential?...

No, didn't say that. They may have had potential at an earlier age. Certainly before raping a preteen.

0 Reply

Arob44 OP

So end the cycle. Shot to the head.

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “So end the cycle. Shot to the head.

I don't think that's fair

that person was a victim first

care should've been taken that the victim got help before they become what they hate

a shot to the head isn't gonna help the other victims from becoming rapists (potentially)

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “So end the cycle. Shot to the head.

I'm assuming you'd want a trial before the shot to the head?

0 Reply

Arob44 OP

In response to “I'm assuming you'd want a trial before the...

people do get falsely accused

as well as falsely shot to the head

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “people do get falsely accused as well as...

You do realize you are standing up for people who harm children in the worst imaginable way. Right?

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “You do realize you are standing up for people...

well say someone accused you of raping a child
when you never even dared to do such a thing

of course I would defend that

and I'm not defending pedophile rapists

I'm defending pedophiles who resist their urges and don't hurt children

0 Reply

fuzala fuzala

In response to “You do realize you are standing up for people...

People who have been falsely accused of harming children have not harmed children.

0 Reply

Arob44 OP

In response to “People who have been falsely accused of...

And for the people who have?

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “I'm assuming you'd want a trial before the...

In the case of recidivism..no.

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “I'm assuming you'd want a trial before the...

A trial normally requires the VICTIM to be present in the same court room as the offender. This, especially in the cases of rape, is double jeopardy and punishment to the victim. Nobody needs to relive or hear all the gory details of what happened. The sickest of all, are the bastards who rape infants or children under age 5. Nobody ever says it, but the reason so many of these victims die or are killed by the offender is obviously and painfully clear. I have never understood how twisted an adult actually has to become to get jollies and thrills from a child! In my book, it is nothing short of terrorism.

0 Reply

freespeechfreelancer freespeechfreelancer

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