It's crazy to allow the court to take away a person's 2nd Amendment rights because they might be suicidal...but not allow the court to consider the person's mental health...<strong>Amirite?</strong>

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BozetteSukiesnowPiper2CarlaJerryHendricksonPartyOfOneTrish

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Piper2ozzyboySukiesnow
It's crazy to allow the court to take away a person's 2nd Amendment rights because they might be suicidal...but not allow the court to consider the person's mental health...Amirite?

Explained by Bozette...

This is stated FOUR times within the text of the bill that was passed by Oregon's legislature and now goes to the governor: The court may not include in the findings any mental health diagnosis or any connection between the risk presented by the respondent and mental illness.

Top Comment

That's what Canada is trying to do.

I don't want someone who is unstable owning a gun or an ice pick.

+222 See / Add Replies

Sukiesnow Sukiesnow

Comments

That's what Canada is trying to do.

I don't want someone who is unstable owning a gun or an ice pick.

+222 Reply

Sukiesnow Sukiesnow

In response to “That's what Canada is trying to do. I don't...

The court is not allowed to consider a person's mental health under this law.

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “The court is not allowed to consider a...

That is terrible, then.

+222 Reply

Sukiesnow Sukiesnow

In response to “That is terrible, then.

It's nuts.

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

I am all for keeping firearms out of the hands of people who are mentally unstable.
This process would be fine if the first stop was a phych office.

0 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “I am all for keeping firearms out of the...

But it isn't at all under this legislation. Say I was related to you or lived with you and I told the court you shouldn't be allowed a gun because you might commit suicide. Should the court be allowed to infringe your protected right based upon...say my testimony and the fact that you had a background check done...but without considering your mental health? (i.e. Don't piss off your relatives/roommates!!!)

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “But it isn't __at all__ under this...

I agree with you, bo.
But...i also think that expression of concern should require a very rapid and solid look at the situation.
And it looks like sneaky legislation. Which is unacceptable.

+111 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “I agree with you, bo. But...i also think that...

My problem with it is that it sidesteps due process and is ripe for abuse.

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

If you want to kill yourself, you don't need a gun. Just wait for the next train.

+111 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

In response to “If you want to kill yourself, you don't need...

That's true. I question the premise that this bill is to prevent suicide, though, when four times it states the court cannot consider the person's mental health.

This would allow a court to deny a constitutionally protected right without due process, and then limit their right to appeal to boot. This could happen without their presence in court or knowledge until after the fact, based upon an allegation and the subjectivity of the court.

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “That's true. I question the premise that...

They'll stop at nothing a grasp at any possible excuse to take as many guns as they can, that way, they have more power over the people.

+113 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

In response to “They'll stop at nothing a grasp at any...

Oddly enough, Jerry, this particular bill was introduced by a Republican, though he was the lone R that voted for it. California and Conneticut have similar laws already.

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Oddly enough, Jerry, this particular bill was...

You know I'm a right leaning Libertarian. R's are just a little better than D's when it comes to adhering to the Constitution , but not by much.

+112 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

In response to “You know I'm a right leaning Libertarian...

They are just different cheeks of the same **** as far as I am concerned.

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Oddly enough, Jerry, this particular bill was...

republicans are the same as leftest elites

0 Reply

nosurrendertoevil

In response to “republicans are the same as leftest elites

Ultimately, yes, as I said above they are just a different cheek on the same ****. But it isn't common for a bill such as this to be introduced or supported by a Republican.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “That's true. I question the premise that...

I am not an expert on these things so my opinion is - Hell yes don't sell guns to mentally challenged suicidal OR terrorist. Anyone talking about shooting themselves or others shouldn't be able to get one. Set up checks and balances that make it AT LEAST AS HARD AS GETTING A DRIVERS LICENSE.

0 Reply

LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred

In response to “I am not an expert on these things so my...

This has nothing to do with obtaining a gun. It involves taking legally purchased weapons away based upon hearsay rather than facts.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

It's a sensible bill.

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

In response to “It's a sensible bill.

You and I have never, and will never, agree on gun control issues. That said, I do understand your support of such measures, Dru. I cannot understand how it is "sensible" to deprive someone of a right based upon a mental health issue, while mandating the court not take the person's mental health into consideration.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “You and I have never, and will never, agree...

Um.....denying a gun to someone who has anxiety, depression, anger issues, schizophrenia,.......?

Yeah, I can live with that.

+11 Reply

dru18 dru18

In response to “Um.....denying a gun to someone who has...

"Judge...Dru is depressed, schizophrenic, and suicidal"..."Dru, your rights are recinded...sorry, I have no way of knowing whether that is actually true or not, because I am not allowed to actually check your mental health, but hey, too **** bad". Riiiight.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “"Judge...Dru is depressed, schizophrenic...

Sorry for the insult. I misunderstood your reply, and I think you are anything, but stupid. It was a cheap shot, on my part.

I seriously doubt that there won't be a medical expert weighing in, or any kind of records to back up that claim.

And even if there wasn't, it still errors on the side of caution. There are tons of mentally ill people who fly under the radar every day.

And NO, I don't look at owning a gun as an automatic "right". You have to earn that right.

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

In response to “Sorry for the insult. I misunderstood your...

Then you must have missed my explanation above and/or didn't read the bill. This is stated FOUR times within the text of the bill that was passed by Oregon's legislature and now goes to the governor: The court may not include in the findings any mental health diagnosis or any connection between the risk presented by the respondent and mental illness.

We disagree. The Constitution is what my opinion is based upon.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Then you must have missed my explanation...

Simply put, you are wrong.

Why?

Because you think that any person can take refuge under something that was written over two hundred years ago, by people who had no education or understanding, of today's 'mental illnesses'

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

In response to “Simply put, you are wrong. Why? Because...

We disagree, as we always do, Dru.

The men who wrote the Constitution had no education? Mental illness is not a modern invention, Dru.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “We disagree, as we always do, Dru. The men...

No, it is not a modern invention, but it was hardly a talked about subject back then, nor a very well understood one.

It is now thought that both Lincoln, and especially his wife, suffered depression. Just a little 'melancholy' back then.

Yes, we disagree.

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

In response to “"Judge...Dru is depressed, schizophrenic...

I would agree if you said too Darn Bad.

0 Reply

LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred

In response to “It's a sensible bill.

no its a fascist bill

0 Reply

nosurrendertoevil

In response to “no its a fascist bill

How?

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

Yes. I read through most of the bill several times, and I agree that it's oddly and too vaguely worded. It sounds like all kinds of people could file this court order of "extreme risk protection", even when the person is only deduced to be a threat to themselves by someone.
There are other concerning reasons stated in the bill as well, of course, for a person being forced to surrender their "deadly weapon", or face a large fine and or a year a year of jail time.

+111 Reply

Piper2 Piper2

They should amend the bill to include Van's and Knives as well.

0 Reply

AliceD AliceD

In response to “They should amend the bill to include Van's...

Why not cars, hammers, 2×4s, bricks, plastic bags and cleaning products, too?

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Why not cars, hammers, 2×4s, bricks...

Let us all check into the statistics of such weapons, and get back to you.

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

In response to “Let us all check into the statistics of such...

While you are there have a look at how many people are killed in car accidents and by medical misadventure per annum. Then list all the totals and we can get a picture of what we should really be concentrating on eh?

01 Reply

AliceD AliceD

In response to “While you are there have a look at how many...

Car accidents have lowered, thanks to tough measures on drunk driving. In Arizona, a bill was passed to outlaw people talking on their phones while driving. YOU will get pulled over.

Now, let's concentrate on gun violence.

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

In response to “Car accidents have lowered, thanks to tough...

gun control is Fascism

0 Reply

nosurrendertoevil

In response to “gun control is Fascism

This is the only country who feels that way, and this is one country that has a ton of gun violence.

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

In response to “Car accidents have lowered, thanks to tough...

Is it your intention to concentrate on loss of life? Or, as the case may be, the reason for loss of life? Or is there another reason for you being concerned about this?

01 Reply

AliceD AliceD

In response to “Is it your intention to concentrate on loss...

First of all, your reply was a long time coming, and second of all, it is as clear as mud.

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

In response to “First of all, your reply was a long time...

I didn't even find the question blurred much less muddy. Is your concern actual loss of life? Or simply political?

0 Reply

DW2 DW2

In response to “I didn't even find the question blurred much...

I believe it started (a long time ago!) on the subject of gun safety v. car safety. And I do believe, the car won, hands down.

0 Reply

dru18 dru18

I agree with this specific statement:
Gun confiscations under SB 719 will be "based on hearsay evidence alone, and the firearm owner is not privy to a fair trial,"

I would hope this will be fought all the way to the Supreme Court.

01 Reply

DW2 DW2

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