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In every controversy, both sides think that their position is right and both think that they alone know the truth.  I conclude that there is no right and no wrong.  I conclude that the truth cannot be known.  Neither side is 100% correct nor is either 100% wrong.

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61% agree
39% disagree
Post
  • Topics:IntellectualEpistemology
  • Featured on the home page on Oct 3rd 2017
  • Post Of The Day on Sep 23rd 2017

Agreed

VicZincTiffaneeCarlaSunny_the_skepticPhilboydStudgeRoosterSynysterGatesBubmona1986StarzAboveJamesDW2TrishReaperGirl07TomboyJanet

Disagreed

Will_JanitorHowlerBookyankash9683ASPDBrianlPsyburCarmo

Favourited

PhilboydStudgeDW2doctorwho1011Piper2Darkest_SerenityTiffaneeStarzAboveAdaWill_JanitorCarlaRoosterBubSynysterGates
In every controversy, both sides think that their position is right and both think that they alone know the truth. I conclude that there is no right and no wrong. I conclude that the truth cannot be known. Neither side is 100% correct nor is either 100% wrong.

Top Comment

That's the most wrong thing I've ever heard

+886 See / Add Replies

Wunderscore Wunderscore

Comments

That sounds about right.

+555 Reply

Tiffanee Tiffanee

That's the most wrong thing I've ever heard

+886 Reply

Wunderscore Wunderscore

In response to “Right?

No!

+111 Reply

Wunderscore Wunderscore

In response to “That's the most wrong thing I've ever heard

LOL! Wait. You are joking?

+333 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

In response to “That's the most wrong thing I've ever heard

Are you sure you haven't heard anything wronger? :)

+222 Reply

Will_Janitor Will_Janitor

People like to be right and like to defend that thought, but it's very narrow headed to consider only yourself right without looking at the arguments of opposing parties, this way you can not grow as a person and remain a sourpuss that nobody likes. Some topics are either facts or delusions while other topics are subjective and have good points as well as flaws like the abortion question.

What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.

+666 Reply

Sunny_the_skeptic Sunny_the_skeptic

Sometimes it's difficult to remain focused on the topic at hand, rather than the other person. In the back of my mind I something think, "well of course you're going to say that, you're a [insert your own abstraction here]". And it usually goes downhill from there.

+554 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

That is ridiculous!
Because people don't agree on somethings, there is no truth?

** Begin sarcastic example **
I like chocolate ice cream. You like vanilla.
Well, phuck it then! We can't possibly know the truth about anything!
** End sarcastic example **

+666 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “That is ridiculous! Because people don't...

I like both.



So I would say you are both right and both wrong. :)

+444 Reply

Will_Janitor Will_Janitor

In response to “That is ridiculous! Because people don't...

Doesn't take much to set you off, eh? (hehe)

+223 Reply

Bub Bub

In response to “Doesn't take much to set you off, eh? (hehe)

And, it doesn't take much to have you believe I've been 'set off'!

+333 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “And, it doesn't take much to have you believe...

I just take it for granted you're on a rant about something... *laugh out loud but not really - it's more of a smirk*

0 Reply

Bub Bub

In response to “That is ridiculous! Because people don't...

I can't know if you really like chocolate nor can you know if I really like vanilla.

It seems that when I taste pure vanilla I don't care for it, but I like it mixed on other things; so do I really like vanilla? I don't know.

Have you ever taste untreated chocolate, right from the bean?

Whatever, Budwick. You go ahead and 'know' on 'faith' all of the answers to your meaningless questions.

+221 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “I can't know if you really like chocolate nor...

BEYOND ridiculous!

+222 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “BEYOND ridiculous!

I have yet to see an armchair philosopher jump from the roof of a ten-story building because he couldn't know for sure what the effects of the Earth's gravity would be.

Maybe Vic will be the first. (biggrin)

+222 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

I believe the truth can be found and known, but I agree with your last statement that usually both sides are not 100% right or wrong.

+776 Reply

Will_Janitor Will_Janitor

In response to “I believe the truth can be found and known...

Thanks, let me know when you find the truth on any matter, I've been searching for a long time and would like to cross that one off my bucket list.

+333 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Thanks, let me know when you find the truth...

There are a lot questions we don't have answers to. I'm not disagreeing with that. There are also truths that exist and we know. Here is one for me:

+443 Reply

Will_Janitor Will_Janitor

In response to “There are a lot questions we don't have...

I can get all philosophical on this, but I won't go there unless you desire me to.

+333 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “I can get all philosophical on this, but I...

I'm good, thanks. I can't get all that excited about this one. I'm just not that deep. :)

+555 Reply

Will_Janitor Will_Janitor

In response to “I'm good, thanks. I can't get all that...

your comment, Will,
is on the mark
within our hearts to keep

'cuz few of us
if truth be told
are really piled that deep (biggrin)

+222 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “your comment, Will, is on the mark within our...

And miles to go before I sleep? (hehe)

+222 Reply

Will_Janitor Will_Janitor

In response to “And miles to go before I sleep? (hehe)

No doubt about it. (hehe)

+222 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Thanks, let me know when you find the truth...

Vic it isn't whether one can find truth. But whether you believe it to be once you come across it.

There are a great many truths and absolutes in this world.

A child when told not to touch something because it is hot, has the choice to believe that truth, Or risk being burned by testing that truth.

I have watched that one truth be learned by each of my children.

+443 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “Vic it isn't whether one can find truth. But...

That's a good point. It comes down to your definition of truth.

Often the lesson is: don't touch the stove because it is hot. As we know, the stove is not always hot, it is sometimes and can burn and is sometimes safe to touch.

Does a hot stove always burn? My dad was a chef, he could grab a hot pan off the stove that would raise welts on a lesser cook's hands. No a hot stove does not always burn.

Are rules a good idea? Of course.
Should we play the odds - e.g., not jump off 10 story buildings because we will likely get hurt; not touch a hot pan handle because we will likely get burned? Of course!

We absolutely should assume that the sun will come up tomorrow, it probably will. The chance that it won't in minuscule.

Is it true that the sun will come up tomorrow? Is it true that if I jump off a 10 story building I will die? I say "No!" It is not true. We simply cannot know. We cannot predict the future.

There is no possibility that we, as humans, can be 100% sure of the outcome of any situation.

Do I live my life as if I was 100% sure? You bet your ** I do. Am** I 100% certain about anything? No. No I am not, and neither is anyone else.

+333 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “That's a good point. It comes down to your...

Your point is poorly taken, Vic. You cite 100% to only three significant figures, when you really mean 100.00000000000... etc. %.

But what if I am 99.999999999999999999...% sure of an outcome? Then for all practical purposes (FAPP), the outcome is certain, because I would have to wait longer than the age of the Universe to expect to see an exception to my expectation. (sounds like a Gilbert and Sullivan song)

Yet you, for reasons known best to yourself (if that), prefer to dwell on your philosophical fapping. (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Your point is poorly taken, Vic. You cite...

Likewise - you, in your interesting philosophical approach to reality, seek to ignore the obvious in some masturbatory effort to self-inflate your ego. Why? Perhaps so you can run around to all your sheep like followers repeating your narcissistic chant: "I am right! I am right! Look at me, I am the correct one."

If you choose to think that 6-sigma is the same as perfect who am I to dissuade you from that fantasy?

+112 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Likewise - you, in your //interesting//...

I'm not talking about 6-sigma, Vic.

How about 100 or 1000 or 10^9-sigma? According to you, we can't rule those out, you know. (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “I'm not talking about 6-sigma, Vic. How...

No. according to me, WE (as humans) cannot measure that detail.

+112 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “No. according to me, WE (as humans) cannot...

Of course we could, if, for example, half the molecules in the Earth's atmosphere suddenly by chance all started moving in the same direction at thermal velocities for 10 seconds, and the other half moved in the opposite direction. Of course we would all be dead long before the 10 seconds was over.

Climate change of a different order? (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Of course we could, if, for example, half the...

There you go again. I can make predictions to, but that doesn't equal "truth". We don't know. Someone might survive. Probably not but we cannot know until it happens.

+112 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “There you go again. I can make predictions...

There you go again, dodging the elementary blunder that you made ("WE (as humans) cannot measure that detail") and when I gave you an easily (nay, catastrophically) measurable example of such an unlikely event you duck and try to pretend that someone could survive that event. Yeah, ok, maybe one chance in 10^80, again not something you would expect to see in repeated trials during the lifetime of the Universe.

And even by your niggling philosophy, it would STILL be the "truth" that the odds against surviving would be astronomically large. (biggrin)

+222 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “There you go again, dodging the elementary...

Thank you for admitting your error. I appreciate that.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Thank you for admitting your error. I...

You're still dodging, Vic. (biggrin)

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “You're still dodging, Vic. (biggrin)

Roflmao. You are out of your league.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Roflmao. You are out of your league.

STILL trying to laugh off your blunder, Vic? (biggrin)

("WE (as humans) cannot measure that detail")

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “STILL trying to laugh off your blunder, Vic?...

Repeating yourself is not the same stating the 'truth'. However it is the tactic used by those who have run out of logical arguments.

But I admit,
I am not (99.999999999999999999...%) sure of that, maybe you (Thinkerbell) can somehow measure things at a level beyond the capability of any hitherto known scientific equipment.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Repeating yourself is not the same stating...

You still haven't understood the example, thus compounding your blunder, Vic. No precise measurements are needed, just a natural occurrence of a VERY unlikely event, with DRASTIC effects.

Go back and read it again. (biggrin)
http://www.amirite.com/814664-i...-alone/2657988

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “You still haven't understood the example...

I completely understand the the example you provide is a fantasy.

A false antecedent begets any true consequent.

You want to claim that "truth exists" because if elephants have wing then donuts are zebras. I think George Boole got there before you.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “I completely understand the the example you...

You didn't understand it at all if you think it's a fantasy. You bumbled it yet again, Vic.

The scenario I suggested conserves energy and momentum, so it is a possible configuration, just EXTREMELY unlikely, entirely in keeping with your absolutist sophistry. (biggrin)

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “You didn't understand it at all if you think...

Perhaps I did, please enlighten me. I fail to see what that has to do with your alleged ability to measure phenomena beyond a half a dozen or so standard deviations?

I get that you can predict outcomes, but I submit that you cannot know the accuracy of your prediction if the outcome never occurs.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Perhaps I did, please enlighten me. I fail...

I did not allege the ability to measure beyond 6-sigma.

The usual configuration of a gas is that the molecules move in all random directions with some total energy determined by the temperature, and zero total momentum. This is the average configuration, with equal numbers moving in the x, y and z directions.

Now for all the molecules of even one mole of gas (6x10^23 molecules)to start moving only in the x-direction by random collisions would be roughly 10^12 sigmas away from the mean configuration, highly unlikely, but not absolutely forbidden. Much larger deviation than that for the whole Earth, of course.

The macroscopic effects, however, would be enormous. If the favored x-direction ran from your right to left, you would feel the pressure in that direction nearly double, while the front/back pressure would drop to zero. Your guts would be squeezed out of your torso and your brain out of your eye sockets, easily measured phenomena, at least while you were still conscious.

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “I did not allege the ability to measure...

"easily measured phenomena"

Good luck measuring something that has never happened.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “"easily measured phenomena" Good...

Exactly.

It never happened, nor will it, in the entire age of the Universe, it is so improbable. And so therefore it can be ignored.

The point is, it would not require precise measurements, contrary to your misapprehension. It would be a very unlikely phenomenon with very large effects.

Heck, with a 10^12-sigma random deviation in solar radiation, the Earth would be vaporized. Do we need precise measurements of that unlikely phenomenon with such huge effects? Does anyone "need" to worry about it?
Can't absolutely rule it out, ya know. (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Exactly. It never happened, nor will it, in...

Can't absolutely rule it out, ya know.

Exactly. Thank you. That's all I am saying.

Can't absolutely rule it out, ya know. Why?

Because you never know!

(bye)

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Can't absolutely rule it out, ya...

If that's all you're saying, then what you are saying is not only impractical, it is trivial. (biggrin)

Buh-bye. (bye)

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “There you go again, dodging the elementary...

Vic, he strains for a gnat and lets a camel pass.

+111 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “That's a good point. It comes down to your...

Vic it does not come down to mine or anyone else's definition of truth.

In my one example in my first reply to you. I used the example of a child being warned of being burned by something.

If I have the burner on my range on high and it is glowing red hot. Is it a fact/truth that if you place your unprotected hand on that burner you Will be burned?

And as I stated before you can choose to believe that or not. The fact that choose not to believe a truth does not diminish a truth.

Your examples of the sun coming up is a misnomer the sun doesn't go anywhere.
The TRUTH is it only appears to rise and set.

As for your father being able to grab a hot pan from the stove. The truth learned in his life experiences taught him the limits of his own ability's.

It doesn't mean that a hot stove won't burn anyone who touches the wrong part of it.

0 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “You...

Tell the fire walker to stand still in ONE spot on the red-hot coals continuously for one minute with unprotected feet and then I'll be impressed.

I can pass my finger through a candle flame without harm if I don't take longer than a second or so.

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Tell the fire walker to stand still in ONE...

Thank you. Anything is possible. Nothing is 100% guaranteed.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Thank you. Anything is possible. Nothing is...

Significant figures, Vic, significant figures...
(biggrin)

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Significant figures, Vic, significant...

I am wrong 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000001% on this.

Happy.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “I am wrong...

You're still dodging, Vic. (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “You're still dodging, Vic...

Me?
You keep admitting that nothing is 100% ( add as many zeros as you want). Yet you continue to argue some nonsense about how 'almost' is the same as 'always'.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Me? You keep admitting that nothing is 100%...

And you have admitted that there are plenty of remote possibilities that are negligible for any practical purpose. That's why you haven't jumped off the roof of the ten-story building, nor are you likely to, speaking of remote possibilities.

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “And you have admitted that there are plenty...

A remote possibility is still a possibility.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “A remote possibility is still a possibility.

But not for practical purposes, if is remote enough.

You're quibbling over the difference between a closed and an open interval in mathematics. It makes no difference for any real measurement.

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “But not for practical purposes, if is remote...

I am not quibbling over anything. You are trying to prove something that cannot be proved. You are attempting to convince me there is some absolute truth that can be known, beyond any and all doubt, by a mere human mind.

If I am not persuaded by my degree in mathematic I am unlikely to be persuaded by you.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “I am not quibbling over anything. You are...

Of course you're quibbling. You're quibbling over things that are of no practical significance.

If we can show, for example, that the probability of half the molecules in the Earth's atmosphere all moving in the same direction is so low that the expectation of its occurrence is not even once during the whole age of the universe, then that possibility is negligible for any practical human purpose.

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Of course you're quibbling. You're quibbling...

Agreed. What's that got to do with right and wrong, or our (as humans) ability to know the truth on any matter?

So what if it is impractical? Practicality and epistemology are only marginally related.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Agreed. What's that got to do with right and...

Then for any practical purpose, it is true that we need not concern ourselves with the possibility that half the molecules in the Earth's atmosphere will move in the same direction. One less catastrophe to worry about. (biggrin)

P.S. We live by practicalities.

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Then for any practical purpose, it is true...

Maybe for you.

I certainly would not say that there is no person who does not feel the need to be concerned by that. There might not be anyone, but there might be.

Who am I (or you) do decide the needs of another person? Who am I (our you) to decide that your statement about human 'needs' is true/

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Maybe for you. I certainly would not say...

Ok, since now you are quibbling over what the meaning of "need" is (are you from the Bill Clinton school?), I will say rational need, based on calculations that anyone with any knowledge of mathematics can do himself. I would add that anyone who has an irrational worry about this possibility is not being practical, and I did preface my statement by the phrase "practical purpose".

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Ok, since now you are quibbling over what the...

So you are quibbling over the definition of need?

As always we will never resolve this. I will not convince you that your definition of 'truth' is too practical nor will you convince me that mine is too impractical.

It is what it is. If you need a score it is currently 10 to 7 in my favor.

Truth is an absolute. There are no absolutes. That is my final stand, and I will bow out of this discuss graciously.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “You...

It wasn't about winning. It was about truth. Plain and simple.

+112 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “It wasn't about winning. It was about truth...

There is no truth that can be known.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “There is no truth that can be known.

Well if there is no truth then there is no lie either.

+111 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “Well if there is no truth then there is no...

I agree with that. There is only guesses.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “I agree with that. There is only guesses.

So it is just ambiguity everywhere. Vic what the heck are you putting in that green tea you're drinking.

+222 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “So it is just ambiguity everywhere. Vic what...

Yes! Everything is ambiguous

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “So it is just ambiguity everywhere. Vic what...

the armchair sage
just loves to dwell
on trifles kinda small

like in the world
there's not a soul
exactly six feet tall

+222 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “the armchair sage just loves to dwell on...

What? You mean that out 7 billion people on this earth not one of them is precisely 72" in height!

Oh well now you've done it! Knowing that makes my hair hurt.

I know one thing, I'd sure like to sell him a car. Because if he thinks there are no lies now. wait until I get done with him. (hehe)

+222 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “What? You mean that out 7 billion people on...

Yes, Brian, for sure.

Just tell Vic that he can't be absolutely sure that that 1927 Essex rusting in a field for 75 years won't start up and run like a brand-new Rolls, and that you'll let him have it for a mere $100,000. (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Yes, Brian, for sure. Just tell Vic that he...

Not buying it. Probability is not in my favor.

But I will be the first to suggest you try the key, you never know!.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Not buying it. Probability is not in my...

Are you ABSOLUTELY sure the probability is not in your favor?

"You never know!"
  —thus spake the Armchair Sage (biggrin)

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “the armchair sage just loves to dwell on...

Now you're getting it.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Now you're getting it.

And we can't draw a perfect circle either.

So what? (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “And we can't draw a perfect circle...

STOP IT ! I can't take it. I have used piston rings to rebuild engines with that were made by a company called Perfect Circle.

Lying bastards....wait they can't be lying because Vic said that since there is no truth there is also no lies.

Ahhhhhhhghhhhh(maniac)

+222 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “STOP IT ! I can't take it. I have used piston...

OMG, Brian, I was about to tell Vic that it is absolutely true that we cannot draw a perfect circle, but maybe I was wrong.

After all, maybe we can't be absolutely sure the the Perfect Circle piston people didn't do exactly that. (biggrin)

+11 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “And we can't draw a perfect circle...

So nothing.
Just saying: probably can't be done. Changes nothing. Life goes on, progress happens.

Just saying it. "likely won't be round."

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “So nothing. Just saying: probably can't be...

"Can't be done".

ABSOLUTELY can't be done?

Hmm... sounds as if you are admitting that there IS an absolute truth after all, Vic, contrary to what you have been saying all along. (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “?

Don't play dumb, Vic. (biggrin)

Are you claiming that it is ABSOLUTELY true that we cannot draw a perfect circle?

If so, then you are saying there IS an absolute truth.
In fact, there would be many such truths. (wt)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Don't play dumb, Vic. (biggrin) Are you...

I only talk in probabilities. There are no absolutes.

Except one, you are absolutely off base on your understanding of reality.

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “I only talk in probabilities. There are no...

And is the probability of our drawing a perfect circle anything other than exactly zero? If so, what is it?

And is the statement that there are no absolutes an ABSOLUTE truth? (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “And is the probability of our drawing a...

Is it? I can't be sure.

The point is if anyone could draw a perfect circle they would not know it because they could not measure it closely enough to prove is is perfect.

The idea that you can prove me wrong by pointing out a paradox is the very reason for my conjecture.

"any sufficiently complex system is either inconsistent or incomplete"

01 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Is it? I can't be sure. The point is if...

"...they could not measure it closely enough to prove is is perfect."

You've only pushed your internal contradiction back a step. So, is it absolutely true that a perfectly precise measurement is impossible? (there's an easy probabilistic answer to that question, since you "only talk in probabilities".)

And if your post is merely a conjecture, you should have said so in your intro, instead of proclaiming "I conclude..." Nor should you have pontificated time after time that "there is no truth".

http://www.amirite.com/814664-i...-alone/2658256

Yep, your simple system is certainly inconsistent, and no more useful than the liar paradox. (biggrin)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Don't play dumb, Vic. (biggrin) Are you...

Thinkerbell I think I love you.(hehe)

+111 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “Thinkerbell I think I love you.(hehe)

I thank you Brian
for your thought
and for your kindly dealings

but I do fear
the armchair sage
is loath to share your feelings (biggrin)

+222 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “I thank you Brian for your thought and for...

Yeah he can be a stick in your spokes some times. (hehe)

+111 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “Yeah he can be a stick in your spokes some...

the armchair sage's
thinking skills
are less than what they oughter

I wonder if
his math degree
was purchased by mail order?

+222 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Ouch!

(hehe)

+11 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “(hehe)

Sitting Rock and Drifting Cloud


Drifting Cloud sat on the end of a stick
Sitting Rock said, “Well that’s a neat trick!
balancing there without any support”
“Nothing to it,” came the retort

“It’s a matter of practice, it’s all in my mind
when I center my chakra my balance I find.”
Sitting Rock pondered this thought for awhile
then turning to Drifting Cloud, said with a smile

“I think there’s more to this trick then you claim
your story of chakras and centers seems lame”
then Sitting Rock gave the stick a big shove
and it fell, leaving Drifting Cloud drifting above

“So you see,” added Drifting Cloud laughing on high
“when your life is in balance you practically fly!”
“But you see,” answered Sitting Rock not too confounded
“Flying's for fools, I prefer to be grounded.”

+111 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “**//Sitting Rock and Drifting Cloud//** ...

Then Drifting Cloud said, with the fall of the stick,
" 'Tis nothing but nonsense, concocted by Vic.
He postures and poses and publishes schtick
In doggerel form, where his meter don't click.
His skills as a poet, one notices quick,
Match only his math skills, and they're not too slick."
(hehe)

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Then Drifting Cloud said, with the fall of...

(beye)
wtf you meany pants.

+111 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “(beye) wtf you meany pants.

Ooh, these temperamental poets... (hehe)

+11 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Ooh, these temperamental poets... (hehe)

Why would you think that's funny?

+111 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Why would you think that's funny?

Because, Vic, you take yourself far too seriously. (hehe)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWsQO7UZrMw

+111 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Why would you think that's funny?

Because it is. And it seems to have struck a nerve in the usual ultra passive Vic.

Me thinks thou doth protest a bit too much.

+111 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “Then Drifting Cloud said, with the fall of...

You are amazing. As someone who fancy's himself a writer I can appreciate the wit and poetic skill you posses.

I'm more than a little envious. (smile)

+111 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “(hehe)

I have to say you have an amazing intellect. And it towers over mine.

The only thing I have going for me is getting my **** kicked by 60+ years of living.

If your paying any attention at all after that much time you'll learn a few things.

+111 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “I have to say you have an amazing intellect...

Thank you, Brian. You're much too kind.

And life experience and common sense do indeed count the most.

Universities, for example, teem with high-IQ fools. (hehe)

+11 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

I only partially agree, btw...

+444 Reply

Bub Bub

At least half of the post is 50% truthfully false...but maybe not.

At least half is not 50% wrongfully right...but maybe so.

+555 Reply

Howler Howler

In response to “At least half of the post is 50% truthfully...

Tongue twister?



:):)

+223 Reply

Will_Janitor Will_Janitor

In response to “Tongue...

Maybe...Maybe not.

+333 Reply

Howler Howler

There are people that think they are 100% right and that is the end of the discussion.

+554 Reply

Tiffanee Tiffanee

Right up there with "Who needs oil? I ride the bus" as about the dumbest left wing statement I've ever heard, even by liberal standards, but yet it is the perfect liberal analysis. It's politically correct, non offensive, and non committal, AND, it answers or solves nothing.
It DOES, however, give the OP the illusion of being intelligent, or a deep, analytical thinker (hehe). It also makes the minions who agree or up vote, "feel good".

When the smoke screen clears, It all translates to : "I don't know, and I don't want to know" You see, TRUTH offends and frightens many, especially liberals. That's why most strive to avoid it.

+6717 Reply

Bookyanka Bookyanka

In response to “Right up there with //"Who needs oil? I...

Excellent comment.

I agree 100% with everything you stated, and it was stated extremely well.

+333 Reply

Howler Howler

In response to “Excellent comment. I agree 100% with...

Thanks for supporting Bookyanka's proof of my point. You hit the nail on the head.

He thinks his position is right and that he alone knows the truth.

+553 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Thanks for supporting Bookyanka's proof of my...

That's what eyes and ears are for, rather than biased sociological and government propaganda "studies".

+222 Reply

Bookyanka Bookyanka

In response to “That's what eyes and ears are for, rather...

My eyes are old and they have fooled me too many times. My ears are sharp but I still can't tell a baby in distress from a vixen in heat - so I will run into the woods every time, just in case.

+221 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Thanks for supporting Bookyanka's proof of my...

My thanks goes to Bookyanka for clarifying that you never really had a point...and to you for at least trying to have one.

01 Reply

Howler Howler

In response to “Right up there with //"Who needs oil? I...

I agree, except there are just as many stupid things said by conservatives. Sometimes you can't fill a thimble with the logic from either side. :)

+333 Reply

Will_Janitor Will_Janitor

In response to “I agree, except there are just as many stupid...

Agreed, but the OP in this case is a liberal.

No question that both sides are insane with hypocrisy and double standards, but the left is supposed to know better, because they claim to be intellectually evolved far beyond conservatives.

+222 Reply

Bookyanka Bookyanka

In response to “Right up there with //"Who needs oil? I...

Thanks for proving my point so eloquently.

+333 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Thanks for proving my point so eloquently.

You have no point. The entire post dictates and oozes pointlessness. (smile)

+222 Reply

Bookyanka Bookyanka

In response to “You //have// no point. The entire post...

I think that's the point.

+333 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Right up there with //"Who needs oil? I...

Spot on! Exactly right!
Give that Book a, .... a book marker!

+333 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Spot on! Exactly right! Give that Book...

Ding Ding Ding, and we have another winner. Congratulations Mr. Wick you have just proven the OP!

+333 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Ding Ding Ding, and we have another winner...

The OP statement is stupid! There is no right and wrong? That's wrong!

Even if it were right, you would still be wrong!

+333 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “The OP statement is stupid! There is no...

You would think that wouldn't you?

+222 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “You would think that wouldn't you?

And, your response is in future AND past tense!
Your thoughts are an abomination to logic.

+222 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “And, your response is in future AND past...

If you say so it must be true.

+333 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

an armchair sage
once thought to jump
from off a lofty height

and halfway down
he smugly cried
you see? I'm still all right (biggrin)

+222 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “an armchair sage once thought to jump from...

Two brilliant comments on one post!

+333 Reply

Budwick Budwick

That varies on a case by case basis. Humility demands we consider the possibility we're wrong, nobody bats 1000. But in my mind, there is definitely right and wrong, the only thing lacking at times is our ability to discern it.

King Solomon: "My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding— indeed, if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding. He holds success in store for the upright, he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless, for he guards the course of the just and protects the way of his faithful ones." Proverbs 2:1-8

The path of the just is as the shining light, that shines more and more to the perfect day. But the way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble. Proverbs 4:18,19

+333 Reply

Maze Maze

Ha! Yes, that does seem to be mostly true. I'll go ahead and trust my own conclusions about whether certain things are "right" or very wrong though, until and if I have reason not to. Stubbornly, with my last breath! (biggrin)

+554 Reply

Piper2 Piper2

There are always two sides to every controversy, I'm always on the right side. lol

+444 Reply

StarzAbove StarzAbove

the only obvious answer to this post is; I think you're wrong.

+333 Reply

Brianl Brianl

In response to “the only obvious answer to this post is; I...

Thank you. :)

+111 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

You ain't wrong there , but then again you ain't right...

+222 Reply

JD JD

This strongly depends on the issue. Most things do have a right or wrong answer, which is usually determined by which side can back their reasoning up with facts and logic. Do that long enough and it becomes apparent which side is correct, especially when there is an unbiased perspective as well.

+111 Reply

Psybur Psybur

In response to “This strongly depends on the issue. Most...

Perhaps. I think history has many example of 'facts' being disproven over time.

+111 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Perhaps. I think history has many example of...

What many think are "facts" aren't backed up by empirical and contested evidence, therefore when undeniable evidence is provided, what really is the truth becomes quite apparent.

0 Reply

Psybur Psybur

Well of course. Except for the guy who claims it's all illusion. At that point he may be 100% right. :)

+111 Reply

DW2 DW2

A rock is not not a rock. Something is what it is and not what its not. These are logical absolutes. The things that we cant agree on are the qualities we put on certain terms. But the absolutes are knowable

0 Reply

Carmo Carmo

In response to “A rock is not not a rock. Something is what...

Yes, but what is a rock? It is only a rock if we agree that it is. If you don't like my definition of this rock, then what is it?

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Yes, but what is a rock? It is only a rock...

Thats what i mean. The thing is, inessence, what it is and isnt what it isnt. This is what we know. the labels are what makes things blury.

0 Reply

Carmo Carmo

In response to “Thats what i mean. The thing is, inessence...

Labels are what we use to communicate. I said the truth cannot be known.

The truth might be that this rock is what it is yet I am not convinced that I can know what it is. I cannot communicate about it without labels and as you said, things get blurry.

I don't really know what I am and I certainly don't know what you are.

+11 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Labels are what we use to communicate. I...

Ah... I follow you. ..but this is a paradox because How can you know that the truth cannot be known? I suppose if you believe that we cannot know, then we're safe which i guess makes it the standard position of scientists and philosophers. Our minds can only hold beliefs and not "truths"...aight i'm with you now

+111 Reply

Carmo Carmo

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