Circuit Court Says WWI Cross Must Come Down. “To remove it would be a tremendous dishonor to the local men who gave their lives during The Great War.”

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Circuit Court Says WWI Cross Must Come Down. “To remove it would be a tremendous dishonor to the local men who gave their lives during The Great War.”

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The Establishment Clause was never intended to purge religion from the public square and if so used might actually bring about the social discord it was meant to stop.

Keep poking the bear lefties. When America's patience finally breaks, there's gonna be hell to pay.

+555 See / Add Replies

Budwick Budwick

Comments

The Establishment Clause was never intended to purge religion from the public square and if so used might actually bring about the social discord it was meant to stop.

Keep poking the bear lefties. When America's patience finally breaks, there's gonna be hell to pay.

+555 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “The Establishment Clause was never intended...

Religion isn't purged from the public square only its monuments.

0 Reply

urwutuis urwutuis

In response to “Religion isn't purged from the public square...

And why is that Urwut?
Go ahead, ... think it through, ... you can do it!

0 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “And why is that Urwut? Go ahead, ... think...

Figure it out for yourself. It's not that tough. Some of us know it as the first amendment. Freedom OF religion includes freedom FROM religion

0 Reply

urwutuis urwutuis

In response to “Figure it out for yourself. It's not that...

Actually no, it does not.

0 Reply

Budwick Budwick

I'm all for the separation of Church and State, but this seems really foolish.

+111 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

What if the 49 men it commemorates were all Christians? That's not only possible, it's likely, we're talking 1919 America, almost everyone was Christian, should crosses be banned from graveyards too? If the 49 were Jews or Muslims and the symbol was from either of those faiths, would the court have still ordered its removal?

To me it seems disrespectful and inappropriate, an abuse of the court system to censor history and eradicate the Christian faith from public view.

An unjust man is an abomination to the just, but a just man is an abomination to the wicked. (Proverbs 29:27)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. << like in the courts for example... (Ephesians 6:11,12)

To someone who would reward Christians who died to defend freedom they presently enjoy by removing monuments to their sacrifices because those monuments symbolize Jesus, be warned...

Whoever rewards evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. (Proverbs 17:9)

And I couldn't change that if I tried...

Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished
(Proverbs 11:21)

+445 Reply

Maze Maze

In response to “What if the 49 men it commemorates were all...

What if the 49 men were Atheists?

01 Reply

urwutuis urwutuis

In response to “What if the 49 men were Atheists?

What if they were clergy? The odds are roughly the same... nil.

+111 Reply

Maze Maze

In response to “What if they were clergy? The odds are...

It could have been half and half.
That's why religion should be left out.

01 Reply

urwutuis urwutuis

In response to “It could have been half and half. That's why...

It was what it was. I suppose it might be possible to find that out by searching records and interviewing families, I mean, there is only 49 of them, it wouldn't be THAT hard. I think that would be the best approach in terms of defending the monument, because as I pointed out, at that point in history, over 90% of Americans were Christian, so there's a solid chance that they were all Christians. And if they were all Christians, or the families of the few who weren't Christians didn't object to the monument, what grounds would there be to remove it? Because it's not about YOU, it's about THEM.

At that point in history, people went to war "for God and country," to ignore that would be to spread lies about the past.

+11 Reply

Maze Maze

In response to “It was what it was. I suppose it might be...

It doesn't matter whether or not they were all Christians. Religion is not to be promoted nor banned by govt. If it was on private land it would be a different matter.
Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

It's about them? No it isn't. It's about branding and indoctrination.
I really don't care whether it stays up or comes down. You put a cross on every street corner if you like. You can proselytize all you like but if it's public property you have to respect all possible perspectives.

01 Reply

urwutuis urwutuis

In response to “It doesn't matter whether or not they were...

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. (Psalm 9:17)

0 Reply

Maze Maze

Sorry, but I have to agree with the court on this issue.

First of all this is clearly a religious symbol. It was originally conceived as a religious symbol and it has remained one ever since. (Read the suit. You can easily find it online.) In 1918 it was described as "a likeness of the Cross of Calvary, as described in the Bible." The original donors were each asked to sign a pledge that included "...trusting in God, the Supreme Ruler of the universe..." and "...guide us through life in the way of Godliness." Since it's completion every service and ceremony held at the site includes Christian prayers, hymns, and benedictions. Through the years Sunday services have also been held on the site.

Now all of that would be fine were it not for the fact that the 40 foot cross and the land on which it sits, a median in the middle of Route 450, are owned by the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission which is a state entity. The Commission also uses public funds to maintain the cross. ($100,000 in 2008). And that is a problem because it violates the the Establishment Clause.

The argument that this cross is only a monument to the 49 soldiers who died in World War I, not a religious symbol, is simply not supported by the evidence. There are several other war monuments in the area (War Of 1812, World War II, Korea, Vietnam) none of which contain any religious symbolism and none of which are taller than 19 feet high. And as for "removing it would be a tremendous dishonor...", well if the desire is to honor fallen soldiers then move the cross to private land and replace it with a memorial honoring the soldiers service to the nation.

Nor is this about "purging religion from the public square". We can still pray anywhere and anytime we want. We can attend church anytime we want. We can send our children to Christian schools. We can wear a crucifix and put a Jesus fish on our bumper. We can listen to Christian radio, watch Christian TV programs, listen to Christian music, read Christian books, and watch Christian movies. We can put a Nativity on our front lawn. We can join a Christian dating service. And yes folks, we can even say "Merry Christmas" in any mall in the United States!

But we must always remember that everyone else has the right to believe whatever he or she chooses as well. So if a 40 foot cross is okay, why not a 40 foot star and crescent? Or a 40 foot Star of David? Or Buddha? Or Vishnu? How would we feel about our state owning one of those and our tax dollars going to maintain it?

(pce)

-3141 Reply

Chris_PHAET_Demon Chris_PHAET_Demon

I have no problem leaving it up but the fact is the court was right.
It's a religious symbol and as such it shouldn't be on public ground under public maintenance.

I am opposed to both religion and war as they are both scams and commemorating them, to me, is about as upside down it gets.
George Carlin said "symbols are for the symbol minded" I agree.

-33 Reply

urwutuis urwutuis

In response to “I have no problem leaving it up but the fact...

CAN;T HAVE CHRISTIAN symbolism in public then cannot have anything atheist or of any other beliefs in public, that INCLUDES your evolution theory

0 Reply

sh9683 sh9683

In response to “CAN;T HAVE CHRISTIAN symbolism in public then...

Atheism and evolution are not beliefs, in fact, Atheism is the lack of belief and evolution is a scientific theory with more supporting evidence than the theory of gravity or relativity.

Neither Atheism nor evolution have symbols.
There are no rituals, temples, rules of behavior, penalties for non belief or any of the other trappings of a belief system.

-11 Reply

urwutuis urwutuis

In response to “Atheism and evolution are not beliefs, in...

lol, science must be observable (evolution is not observable), has to be testable, (how do you test evolution? you cannot). evolution is nothing more then your religion. PERIOD! nothing about evolution is scientific. your evolution THEORY is your religion, do not care how much you deny it. and you shove it down everyones throats. but because your pseudo science is labelled as science, you think that is ok to do so.

+11 Reply

sh9683 sh9683

In response to “lol, science must be observable (evolution is...

You crack me up
I'm not trying to shove anything down anyone's throat.
Evolution doesn't dominate Sunday TV. It doesn't have its symbol plastered everywhere or have its motto printed on money.

Germ theory of disease
Atomic theory
Oxygen theory,
Plate tectonics
Heliocentric theory
quantum theory
Gravity
General relativity

There is as much evidence for evolution as there is for any other scientific theory Many of which are unobservable and it has predictable results. .
There are mountains of evidence in a number of fields of study but you either ignore it or deny it exists.

0 Reply

urwutuis urwutuis

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