With the European migrant crisis, child brides have become a pressing legal question, particularly in Scandinavia and Germany.  Response has largely been local and without uniformity either across the EU or within each state.  Germany did recently pass a national measure, but individual countries and localities are still grappling with the issue.  I will post several links below for those interested, as well as an excerpt from an article highlighting that this is not just a migrant or European issue.  <em><b>I'm looking for serious discussion, please read my explanation below as well as the excerpt in the comment section.  Thank you. </b></em>   Your thoughts?

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With the European migrant crisis, child brides have become a pressing legal question, particularly in Scandinavia and Germany. Response has largely been local and without uniformity either across the EU or within each state. Germany did recently pass a national measure, but individual countries and localities are still grappling with the issue. I will post several links below for those interested, as well as an excerpt from an article highlighting that this is not just a migrant or European issue. I'm looking for serious discussion, please read my explanation below as well as the excerpt in the comment section. Thank you. Your thoughts?

Explained by Bozette...

Two points I'd like to clarify: 1) This is is regarding teenage brides, not the iconic 9-year olds found all over anti-Muslim websites. 2) I have included links from a variety of sources and chosen the ones I did for accuracy and completeness of the reporting. If you have an issue with trusting a particular source...do your own research.

Top Comment

Excerpt:
Unchained At Last, a nonprofit I founded to help women resist or escape forced marriage in the United States, spent the past year collecting marriage license data from 2000 to 2010, the most recent year for which most states were able to provide information. We learned that in 38 states, more than 167,000 children — almost all of them girls, some as young 12 — were married during that period, mostly to men 18 or older. Twelve states and the District of Columbia were unable to provide information on how many children had married there in that decade. Based on the correlation we identified between state population and child marriage, we estimated that the total number of children wed in America between 2000 and 2010 was nearly 248,000.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...s-get-married/

More on Europe:

https://www.reuters.com/article...-idUSKCN0XI1MZ

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37518289

https://www.thelocal.de/2017060...child-marriage

+664 See / Add Replies

Bozette Bozette OP

Comments

Excerpt:
Unchained At Last, a nonprofit I founded to help women resist or escape forced marriage in the United States, spent the past year collecting marriage license data from 2000 to 2010, the most recent year for which most states were able to provide information. We learned that in 38 states, more than 167,000 children — almost all of them girls, some as young 12 — were married during that period, mostly to men 18 or older. Twelve states and the District of Columbia were unable to provide information on how many children had married there in that decade. Based on the correlation we identified between state population and child marriage, we estimated that the total number of children wed in America between 2000 and 2010 was nearly 248,000.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...s-get-married/

More on Europe:

https://www.reuters.com/article...-idUSKCN0XI1MZ

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37518289

https://www.thelocal.de/2017060...child-marriage

+664 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

not a popular view is a point of view to ponder

maybe people should stop crossing oceans to help people who wouldn't step over a mudpuddle to help US

+22 Reply

Neanderthal_Momdoer Neanderthal_Momdoer

In response to “not a popular view is a point of view to...

I agree, though do not see as that pertains to my post.

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

Abroad, it seems they are dealing with underaged migrants.
They do not allow those marriages to take place.

Here we do. And it isnt a muslim thing. It has been going on for a very long time. Long past the days when marrying a little girl was socially acceptable.
It should be illegal to marry before the age of 18. Pregnant or not.

+665 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “Abroad, it seems they are dealing with...

Migrants are the primary focus and why it has become an issue, but the legal age to marry varies by country, too. Germany's new law raised the legal age to marry to 18, nullifies all marriages where one party was under 16, and allows for nullification of those who married at 16 or 17 as well. While 16 is the minimum age for marriage in Norway, some want to forcibly separate migrant couples where the girl is under 18, which seems problematic if marriage is legal at 16. Some of these girls are mothers and or pregnant as well. It just looks to me like a giant legal and clusterfuck for countries already overwhelmed by migrant issues.

The EU is basically pushing the migrants on its member countries, but leaves these legalities to each state from what I can see. This seems rather odd to me considering how the EU micro-regulates trade issues among member countries.

Here it has always been so, the only differences being varying state laws.

+442 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Migrants are the primary focus and why it has...

I reckon the best way to handle these marriages would be on a case by case basis.

And here...i said 18. I reconsidered, parental consent for 17. You can fight for this country at 17, i reckon people should be allowed to marry, too.

+332 Reply

Carla Carla

I just read the links and it seems there are more issues than I was aware of. One in particular, was asylum seekers arriving with the bride who is under the age of 15 and with children, then expecting to live together.

Here in Australia we sometimes have illegal marriages occurring with underaged girls and much older guys due to immigrants from certain countries that think it's acceptable due to their religion but disregard the countries laws. There's one going on at the moment where the guy aged 34 faces jail as his arranged bride is 14. His excuse in court was that he was rescuing her from abuse.

+443 Reply

OzSurfer OzSurfer

In response to “I just read the links and it seems there are...

His marrying her is abuse.

+443 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “His marrying her is abuse.

Yes I totally agree, but he was trying to make out to the court that he was "helping" her. It makes me feel ill.

+443 Reply

OzSurfer OzSurfer

In response to “And....angry

Yeah (sad) They shouldn't be allowed to get off by saying they were ignorant of the law, or that it's their culture or whatever. I can't even get off a speeding fine like that, so getting off child abuse shouldn't work either.

+443 Reply

OzSurfer OzSurfer

In response to “I just read the links and it seems there are...

Some of the European countries have really been overwhelmed. There are so many issues, from economic to legal to cultural, and it seems they are dealt with haphazardly when they are actually dealt with, that is.

I think all countries have issues with immigrants not respecting the laws of their host country, but your country and mine are not dealing with the sheer volume of refugees that Europe is experiencing.

+665 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Some of the European countries have really...

But...tell me bo,
If you were of the mind you are, born with a will to survive ( ha...rocky) would you not try to get out of a country that was killing you? Or trying to? I applaud every country that is giving these people a chance.

+553 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “But...tell me bo, If you were of the mind you...

My heart goes out to the refugees, but factually few are refugees because their country is trying to kill them, Carla. I do applaud people helping people and countries helping the refugees. I also recognize that Europe is being overwhelmed and experiencing serious issues because of it.

+664 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “My heart goes out to the refugees, but...

What dallas said....

+222 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “Some of the European countries have really...

Yes, I agree with you. I think it's a kind of bizarre social experiment to take someone from a totally different culture, often with a lot of psychological issues from coming from a war torn area or growing up with abuse etc, and try and mix them in with yours, by leaving them to their own devices and expecting them to succeed where even those born into the culture and have contacts and speak the language struggle to find work,understand the laws and navigate the system. I'm not sure what kind of an outcome they thought they were actually going to get?

+664 Reply

OzSurfer OzSurfer

In response to “Yes, I agree with you. I think it's a kind...

I think it is politically motivated as opposed to being a social experiment, but it is certainly wreaking havoc across many countries.

+553 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

This is kind of a 'cop-out' answer, but I can understand the dilemma faced concerning young immigrant girls who are already married. Perhaps it is more traumatic for them to be separated from their older husbands, in some cases.

I can also see how challenging it is and would be to discern what would be best for the underage wife on a case by case basis, due to the large number of refugees some European countries are experiencing and accepting.

+443 Reply

Piper2 Piper2

In response to “This is kind of a 'cop-out' answer, but I...

An honest opinion is never a 'cop-out'.

I would think that it probably is more tramatic for them in most cases, actually.

Absolutely. The people/agencies that are helping settle the refugees are not only being overwhelmed by the numbers, but are facing cultural differences that must make it difficult to discern what is the best thing to do in these cases.

I feel for both the people who have been displaced from their homelands and the countries and their citizens who are trying to help them.

+443 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “An honest opinion is never a 'cop-out'. I...

Thank you. Neither subject is one I can see as "black and white" or right or wrong.

I do not know. I would think it would be in many cases, for sure.

Yes, THAT is clear and indisputable. By me, anyway.

So do I, and I can't claim to know what either circumstance is really like.

+333 Reply

Piper2 Piper2

In response to “Thank you. Neither subject is one I can see...

I do not see this, or the refugee/migrant situation overall, as clearly black/white or right/wrong either, Piper. It is one I have struggled with on many levels. Admittedly, I have changed my thinking on various aspects of it over time as I have learned more, looked at things from different perspectives, and, well...struggled with it.

+333 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “I do not see this, or the refugee/migrant...

I have struggled with it, as well. From a distance mostly, so I can't claim to know exactly what those who live in places with a large influx of refugees or immigrants are actually experiencing.

Turning people away seems ethically wrong to me, when they are seeking asylum from horrors in their own countries. I know our country did that for far too long, during the Holocaust.

+333 Reply

Piper2 Piper2

We are having many problems with immigrants who are coming to our civilized countries and still trying to live the same life they had in their own countries...they must abide by the law of the country they settle in...

+443 Reply

JD JD

In response to “We are having many problems with immigrants...

I agree that immigrants need to abide by the laws of their host countries, JD.

From what I have been gathering, the UK takes more of a "multicultural" approach, as opposed to the French policy geared towards assimilation. Is that true? And either way, do you agree with the approach your government is taking?

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “I agree that immigrants need to abide by the...

They are supposed to be abiding by the will of the people to close our borders and only take immigrants who can show they can be an asset to our country...but it's not happening...

+222 Reply

JD JD

In response to “They are supposed to be abiding by the will...

Isn't that, in part, what prompted Brexit? What's going on with that, anyway?

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Isn't that, //in part//, what prompted...

That was the main reason for brexit...the eu is trying to blackmail us into paying them around 80 billion before they talk trade deals...but we want our government to walk away with no deal and trade with the World Trade Organization....they have another meeting soon to come to a settlement...we shall see...

+111 Reply

JD JD

In response to “That was the main reason for brexit...the eu...

That's what I thought.

The EU stands to lose substantially without UK membership. But that demand seems rather misguided to me, as trade was part of it, too, from what others there have told me.

I've been watching some of the politics in the EU for years, but things have really been heating up lately, haven't they?

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “That's what I thought. The EU stands to...

The eu need us more than we need them, although a trade deal without tariffs would be good for us..we have been offered deals with Australia , New Zealand , Japan and USA ....plus many more ..once the eu realize they can't bully us, they will start talking without threats...

+443 Reply

JD JD

As an overall civilized society, governed hopefully, by societal norms which stretch over millenia, how is it that, as a formed society, insurgents and refugees who flood in to host countries are allowed by THAT society to hold sway and commit such ignorant, neanderthal atrocities. Kick those damn doors in and lay it out for them...
Fekkers piss me out

+111 Reply

Freeranger Freeranger

In response to “As an overall civilized society, governed...

As I have clearly shown, the "ignorant, Neanderthal atrocities" under discussion here are quite common in American society.

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “As I have clearly shown, the "ignorant...

If that's the case, then surely there is no need to follow Europe's bad example and import yet more such atrocities.

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “If that's the case, then surely there is no...

Did I propose doing so, Thinkerbell?

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Did I propose doing so, Thinkerbell?

Did I say you did?

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Did I say you did?

If that was not your implication, what was the purpose of your comment?

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “If that was not your implication, what was...

The purpose was to point out that if we already have many such atrocities, there is no need to import more.
Elementary, my dear Watson.

But maybe Europe had little experience in such matters, and just didn't know any better.

I notice from one of your articles that Germany just passed a law against underage marriages (elections, you know). And I understand the Germans are going to crack down on polygamy too (for the same reason?), after many years of having looked the other way and not enforcing the laws against polygamy, at least when it came to 'refugees'.

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-to...amy/a-19329733

Of course, now that the elections are over, and Merkel was re-elected, neither law will be enforced. Enforcement would be Islamophobic and terribly insensitive.

https://www.theguardian.com/wor...d-live-updates

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “The purpose was to point out that if we...

Your stated purpose has nothing to do with my post, Thinkerbell. Have a good day.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Your stated purpose has nothing to do with my...

Oh, really?

"With the European migrant crisis, child brides have become a pressing legal question, particularly in Scandinavia and Germany."

I think it has very much to do with it, but to each her own. (biggrin)

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Oh, really? "With the European migrant...

Importing immigrants here had nothing to do with my post.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Importing immigrants here had nothing to do...

From the Washington Post article you linked:
"Why can 12-year-olds still get married in the United States?"

From your post:
"With the European migrant crisis, child brides have become a pressing legal question, particularly in Scandinavia and Germany."

No connection, eh?

Yeah, right. (biggrin)

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “From the Washington Post article you...

Pointing out that children marrying is allowed in America is not proclaiming we should import immigrants, Thinkerbell.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Pointing out that children marrying is...

You may not have proclaimed it, and I didn't say you did, but there is no shortage of those in this country who are all for such importation, yet somehow you want to declare that connection off limits for this post, for reasons best known to yourself.

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “//You// may not have proclaimed it, and I...

Because people wanting to open the doors to more immigration here is not the discussion on this post, nor did any liberal respondents on this post suggest such.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Because people wanting to open the doors to...

So what?

It's "not the discussion on this post" simply by your fiat, and not for any good reason.

You were the one who referenced underage marriages both here and in Europe.

If you didn't want any discussion of how the problem here would become worse with importation, you should have mentioned one or the other, not both.

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “So what? It's "not the discussion on...

I wanted a focused discussion, Thinkerbell. I actually brought up the fact that it happens here, too, so that the discussion didn't become all about preventing immigration here.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “I wanted a focused discussion, Thinkerbell...

Non-sequitur.

You made unfocused references in order to have a focused discussion, but you didn't want the discussion focused on preventing immigration here.

"Curiouser and curiouser," said Alice.

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “Non-sequitur. You made unfocused references...

I was quite clear, Thinkerbell. Enjoy your evening. (bye)

01 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “I was quite clear, Thinkerbell. Enjoy your...

Yes, it was quite clear you were quite unfocused, Bozette.

Enjoy yours too. (biggrin)

0 Reply

Thinkerbell Thinkerbell

In response to “As an overall civilized society, governed...

I agree that societies have the right to expect immigrants to follow their laws. However I thought I remembered that, when our country was mainly an agrarian society, it was permissible for people younger than 18 to be wed.. so I did a little sleuthing. It turns out we might not meet your criteria for being considered a "civilized society".

More than 200,000 children married in US over the last 15 years
http://www.independent.co.uk/ne...-a7830266.html

Why can 12-year-olds still get married in the United States?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...=.7a910dfc6d50
(also posted by Bozette above).

+221 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

The whole damn thing is SO preposterous! How does a self described enlightened society allow itself to be cowed by these damn cave men and their brutally precambrian laws!!
Tell these asshats how it's going to go down in Scandinavia! Marriage is a consensual event....it is NOT an arrangement by the parents of a 12 year old bride and a 70 year old man with a cart and a donkey! Have people lost their ever lovin' minds??
Comply or get your **** out of the country.
It would seem that the home of the once mighty vikings has gone to shit. ****.

+111 Reply

Freeranger Freeranger

There should be nothing to grapple with. There is the law; it is to be followed. Children should not be forced to be with anyone, especially adults. There is right and there is wrong; the line is crystal clear on this issue. If someone's culture involves victimizing kids, their culture is evil.

0 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

In response to “There should be nothing to grapple with...

The law in not clear, Jerry, that is the point. This isn't about forced marriages, but forced separations. About couples, some with a child, being forced to separate.

The law is not even clear here, Jerry. Marriage laws vary by state and even then may be set aside. Three 10-year old girls were allowed to marry in Tennessee in 2001, and an 11-year old boy in 2006, all to adults between the ages of 24 and 31.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “The law in not clear, Jerry, //that// is the...

That calls for a mob with pitchforks and burning torches.

01 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

The only people wanting child brides are the pedophile Muslims. European countries are trying to be politically correct and sacrificing their people and cultures in the process. So someone calls you a xenophobe, or a racist. Big damned deal. The job of a nation's leaders is to look after the best interests of their citizens; not be concerned about the opinions of some 4th century group of rapists.

+11 Reply

Gun Gun

In response to “The only people wanting child brides are the...

Well that simply isn't true, Gun. It regularly happens here in America. Nor was marrying the point of my post, but what should happen if the couple is already married, may have a child, and wish to stay together? That might be a couple who are 15 and 18.

+11 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “Well that simply isn't true, Gun. It...

In my opinion, your scenario would not fall under the term, "child brides".

0 Reply

Gun Gun

In response to “In my opinion, your scenario would not fall...

That's what they technically are, though, and the term used in the articles, which was why I specified in the explanation I wasn't talking about the 9-year olds so frequently discussed.

Tbh, I was shocked to find that girls as young as 10 and a boy of 11 have been allowed to marry adults 24-31 right here in the US as recently as 2001 and 2006. SMH

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “That's what they technically are, though, and...

Yeah, that's a crock of shit, to me.

01 Reply

Gun Gun

Simple problem with a simple solution, regardless of the mumbo jumbo these people do in their OWN countries, they will respect and obey the laws of the countries they have immigrated in and if not they will suffer the consequences.

0 Reply

Sunny_the_skeptic Sunny_the_skeptic

In response to “Simple problem with a simple solution...

So if say a couple 16 and 18 are married and have a child and wish to remain together they should be forced to separate?

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “So if say a couple 16 and 18 are married and...

Only if they are together because they wanted it and only because their age difference is not big and the girl is close to 18

0 Reply

Sunny_the_skeptic Sunny_the_skeptic

In response to “Only if they are together because they wanted...

That each situation is different, but many may involve tearing existing families apart was why I pointed out this wasn't about little girls. So are you saying if the age difference were more than the 2 years, as in my example above, that the established family should be forced apart against the wishes of the wife? Where would you draw the line? Would you take any children away, too?

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “That each situation is different, but many...

You misread my reply, I stated that it would be fine as an exception. Since we're not talking about actual children and the people involved are consenting I don't see a reason to tear them apart because of 2 years.

I guess each such case has to be looked at individually, it's not the age of 18 that's sought after but rather the physical and mental maturity to make such decisions and have kids.

0 Reply

Sunny_the_skeptic Sunny_the_skeptic

In response to “You misread my reply, I stated that it would...

No, I did not, you misread mine... I asked about situations with greater differences in age and where you would draw the line. I do think each situation should be separately evaluated, but I think foricble separation may often do more harm than good.

+11 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

In response to “No, I did not, you misread mine... I asked...

I'd intervene if the age difference is really far from maturity like under 14 or so, in other words age where a person can not be trusted to make their own decision. Either way, nothing is stopping them from being together, just from being a couple in the eyes in the law/

0 Reply

Sunny_the_skeptic Sunny_the_skeptic

In response to “I'd intervene if the age difference is really...

I can see 14. Yes, they are physically separated when these countries intervene, and the girls are put into a facility for children.

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

Forcing a child to be taken so young into marriage or should I say rapeing these girls iscriminal behaviour and the criminals need to be punished by the country in which the men have dragged the poor child. Why should these immigrants think they can continue their horrible practices in a civilized country? They wanted to get away from the other place, so don't keep trying to act like they do in the other country you just left.

0 Reply

LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred

In response to “Forcing a child to be taken so young into...

I'm not just referring to forced marriages, Lorraine, nor little girls at all. In Denmark, for example, two 17-year olds would be forcibly separated except in "exceptional circumstances". Nor are young girls marrying unheard of here, some as young as 10...to men aged 24-31 as recently as 2001.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette OP

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