I for one am not at all happy that government officials can randomly stop people in public and demand to see their 'papers' with impunity.  Is this America or some backwards Eastern Bloc nation?  This is unacceptable and something for which thinking peoples should not stand.

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PhilboydStudgeTiffaneeStarzAboveMonaLeaCarlaMetal_god14
I for one am not at all happy that government officials can randomly stop people in public and demand to see their 'papers' with impunity. Is this America or some backwards Eastern Bloc nation? This is unacceptable and something for which thinking peoples should not stand.

Top Comment

Sad state of affairs. I could very easily be targeted after the weather warms. I get very brown. That seems to be the criteria.

And that's the problem, vic. The ones driving these actions are just not thinking peoples.

+888 See / Add Replies

Carla Carla

Comments

What happens if you are not carrying anything to prove your citizenship?Is this a requirement in America? It certainly isn't here.

+665 Reply

Blewynanifail Blewynanifail

In response to “What happens if you are not carrying anything...

Seriously??? Look when one is born in the USA they at birth are automatically assigned by our government a Social Security number, thus becoming their personal ID number that recognizes them as a US CITIZEN...to one day use their SS to get their VALID picture ID via a driver's license or another form of ID with a picture...therefore there's no reason anyone in the USA here LEGALLY should have an issue with having to show an ID for any reason. Only Democrats/liberals/RIno's and illegals have a problem with people in our country having to show an ID.

The far left in my country are using their propaganda/terminology of "show me your papers" to PURPOSELY mislead the Dreamer sympathizers to think that our government officials are just randomly going up to people of color demanding to see their "papers"...and that's just not true. ILLEGALS/DREAMERS in our country do not have a specific color(as the left wants people to believe), they come here ILLEGALLY from many different countries around the world.

0 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

In response to “Seriously??? Look when one is born in the USA...

But are you legally required to carry proof of your identity at all times?You haven't actually answered that.I suspect not.

0 Reply

Blewynanifail Blewynanifail

Sad state of affairs. I could very easily be targeted after the weather warms. I get very brown. That seems to be the criteria.

And that's the problem, vic. The ones driving these actions are just not thinking peoples.

+888 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “jackbooted thugs:...

That just doesnt seem so far fetched considering how poorly trained and trigger happy our policing sysyems are.

+334 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “Sad state of affairs. I could very easily be...

I think about people like this guy I know who has lived in the US for over 20 years. He works, cares for his family, does everything right but has no papers.

If they are going to target people they better target those that deserve it.

+334 Reply

Tiffanee

In response to “Sad state of affairs. I could very easily be...

I find it odd that the ones who were screaming about maintaining freedom when Obama was president are now the ones trying to scale the freedom we have down.

+555 Reply

Tiffanee

In response to “I find it odd that the ones who were...

Yes. But i dont find it so odd.

+222 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “I find it odd that the ones who were...

My first thought too!

+222 Reply

MonaLea

In response to “Sad state of affairs. I could very easily be...

Yeah that's it Carla, smh. Look the ones not thinking are those who "feel" that those coming to our country ILLEGALLY should be given amnesty for BREAKING THE LAW.
I do have sympathy for those who when they were very young were smuggled into our country by their "parents", so I do feel that they now as adults should be given amnesty/legal citizenship by our government because due to no fault of their own this is the country they grew up in....HOWEVER I do believe that their parents should be deported back to their home country and then get in line to come to our country LEGALLY.

When a criminal who has children is convicted of their crime and sent away to jail for a few years, decades or life, should we as a civilized society not send that criminal to jail because they have young children who will no longer have their parent in their daily lives??

0 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

Ihre papiere bitte.

+223 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

Trump is trying to turn America into an all "white" country. Pathetic.

+335 Reply

StarzAbove StarzAbove

In response to “Trump is trying to turn America into an all...

He and the mustached one from another century would have gotten along famously. He also wanted a whole nation that was pure white and used others that weren't as scapegoats.

+222 Reply

MonaLea

In response to “He and the mustached one from another century...

Exactly, and thousands of Jews were killed because of that lunatic.

+222 Reply

StarzAbove StarzAbove

Don't worry Vic, you live in California. California LOVES illegal immigrants, it's a bonus if you're a terrorist I think.

+444 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Don't worry Vic, you live in California...

I doubt you really....think, bud.

0 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “I doubt you really....think, bud.

You actually know full well that I think just fine. I just disagree with your Socialist philosophies and are apparently not well equipped to defend them so - instead you call your opponent ignorant.

Have a lovely day Carla!

+222 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “You actually know full well that I think just...

I never called you anything, bud.
On this subject, you are wrong. A voters card? Come on, man.
And to say california invites and harbors terrorists is absurd. And quite insulting. THAT'S the part of your comment i object.

0 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “I never called you anything, bud. On this...

You said that you doubt that I think.

California DOES harbor terrorists. Another one was recently charged and he mocked the judge and said he wished he had killed more police. Now THAT is insulting!

+222 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “You said that you doubt that I...

If he was in court, being charged, that doesnt quite look like he is being harbored.

I feel bad for you, budwick. Having such hateful and negative views on anyone unlike you. Must eat your insides.

+111 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “If he was in court, being charged, that...

I sleep well Carla, despite consistent hatred and name calling from the likes of you.

The **** hole being charged WAS allowed back into the santuary city several times and allowed live there unmolested. NOW he's being charged for the crimes he committed while here illegally.

It takes a special kind of willful ignorance to be unwilling to see the obvious.

+112 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “I sleep well Carla, despite consistent hatred...

Bud...i dont hate you. Not even a little.
And i agree that our borders shouldnt be flung open to everyone. This is why the immigration situation in this country is how it is. It is a difficult problem. People shouldnt be able to come here illegally.
The ones brought here as children, as you say, should be able to stay. But not be used as bargaining chips. If someone here illegally commits a crime, we should remove that person. But....i am not in favor of randomly checking papers because of someones ethnicity. That's not supposed to be how we operate.
Illegal immigration has been on the decline for years.
Address the opiod epidemic, and legalize marijuana, and the drug traffic will go into sharp decline, too.
I will tell you what really bothers me....the right cherry picks news stories to inflame their base. Sooo many more crimes are commited by bonafide americans. The percertage of educated and employed immigrants surpasses those of bonafide americans.
One other thing....if the unemployment rate is so low, who do you reckon is available to do the work that most of these illegals do?
And as far as this lottery and chain migration is concerned....do you know what it takes to get into that lottery? Trumps descripion of the people in it and the process he describes is absurd.
And to get blood family members here takes up to 20 years.

So much hostility, all lathered and angry...because of what....really?

0 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “Bud...i dont hate you. Not even a little...

I agree with most of what you wrote there.

It had nothing to do with the conversation we were having about sanctuary cities, but...

01 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “I agree with most of what you wrote...

It is the root cause of why certain areas feel the need to protect the people in their communities. Some of these "illegals" have been in those communities for years
Being productive, raising families, living life. Once here, and following our laws, illegal or legal, people need to be left to live their lives.

+111 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “It is the root cause of why certain areas...

Regardless of how long your friends and neighbors have been here illegally, it seems to me the proper course of action might be to get them to apply for citizenship - if they want to be citizens. Granting citizenship to anyone brazen enough to come illegally is not a valid precedent.

+223 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Regardless of how long your friends and...

Sorry...i have no neighbors. And, not many people immigrating to this refridgerator.

And i feel believe most would apply for legal status if they didnt fear being immediately deported.

And valid or no, people who get here, well..let them stay. Citizenship and legal status are not the same. Some people have been in dire enough straits that getting here and finding work is an immediate need. I think that need is abating from out closest neighbor.

+222 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “Sorry...i have no neighbors. And, not many...

"And valid or no, people who get here, well..let them stay." - That's the desired leftist 'immigration policy'. Combined with activist style policies of states like California who are planning to issue voting rights to anyone with a drivers license reveals the true intent of the left - A) - Import as many helpless, indigents as possible B) - ensure that they are tossed a few bones like government cheese, crappy housing, crappy education C) - Provide government programs to keep those same people from ever achieving any measure of personal success D) - And make sure that these same people, now enslaved by the democrat party vote "D" for everything - thereby keeping the left elite in power over their imported slaves.

Yes, slaves. The democrats are basically the new Massahs.

PS - Enjoy the State of the Union address tonight.

0 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Sorry...i have no neighbors. And, not many...

Carla, your statement of... "I feel believe most would apply for legal status if they didn't fear being immediately deported" is so much disingenuous BS on your part given they as ILLEGAL immigrants blatantly have no problem swarming the offices of our country's elected officials DEMANDING their citizenship and rights as ILLEGAL immigrants, protesting in the streets as loud and proud ILLEGAL immigrants and willfully being used as props by their liberal Masters as their invited guests during our President's State of the Union address to our country....yet you want us to believe that they're supposedly FEARFUL of being deported, EVEN under the 8 years of an Obama Administration, therefore the supposed reason why they didn't apply for legal status? GIVE ME A BREAK. No one except for the ill informed in our country falls for that kind of liberal minded reasoning.

0 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

In response to “Carla, your statement of... "I feel...

Yep. Im ill informed, deaf, blind and dumb.
Dont have, never had, a clue to the state of this country.
Only you and your far right reaching cronies know......everything. because trump told you so.

+111 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “Yep. Im ill informed, deaf, blind and...

What policies thus far under President Trump have you liberals so upset? Please do not use that he said the word pussy as a private citizen back in 2005... because we all know that you feminists were more than OK with President Clinton becoming our 1st Husband in the Oval office KNOWING that he used his POWER when he was the Governor of AK to sexually harass/assault and rape women because of his addiction to **, and then as our CIC used his POWER to further his addiction to seduce a naïve young WH intern...that Hillary as our 1st Lady, our liberal "msm" and feminist were ALL his enablers thus as women crucifying his VICTIMS by calling them **, trailer trash etc.

So again, please explain IN DETAIL the specifics of the policies of President Trump that have your liberal feminist panties in such a bunch. Damn back in the 70's as a teenager, and then as single working mom in the 80's I NEVER EVER felt that as a women in the workforce that I was being "oppressed"...eh yet in 2018 you "progressives" have unfortunately INDOCTRINATED the ill informed in our great country to THINK they're being OPPRESSED in the USA, smh.

0 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

In response to “I never called you anything, bud. On this...

Seriously Carla?? The overwhelming liberal politicians elected in Kalifornia who CONTROL Kalifornia that enact their nutty policies, most certainly do inadvertently invite and harbor terrorists....because the terrorists KNOW that the moon bats CONTROLLING Kalifornia(our country's most populous state) are politically ignorant of our country's Constitution caring about stupid shit like public bathroom rights, free abortions etc...therefore why they POSE as refugees to flock to Kalifornia(a Sanctuary state) in their long term plan/goal to infiltrate our public schools and our government to eventually TRANSFORM America where one day their ISIS flag is flying outside of our White House....these radicalized Muslims are very patient and don't care if it takes a 100-500 years to one day RULE the USA.

+222 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

In response to “Don't worry Vic, you live in California...

Yet California is a productive state, pays more in taxes than the state receives, unlike most of the red states. California doesn't protect the illegals, they simply don't waste state and city funds chasing illegals since immigration is a Federal responsibility not State.

+11 Reply

Flrdsgns Flrdsgns

In response to “Yet California is a productive state, pays...

Nice try Flanders, but the California disregard for federal statute goes far beyond your misunderstanding. Your first sentence is completely irrelevant to the topic. Your second is willfully incomplete.

California does in deed protect illegals. They are offered complete subsistence upon entry, drivers license and voting card. Your LAW ENFORCEMENT IS NOT ALLOWED TO ASK ANY THING regarding immigration status on stops they do make. And the state has virtually advertised itself as a safe haven for illegals. And, resisted any attempt for federal agents to work there.

+222 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Nice try Flanders, but the California...

Yet in the 80's we voted overwhelmingly to not allow illegals medical coverage, welfare or admittance to public schools, only to be overturned by the Supremes. Since our votes mean nothing, many of us just quit voting altogether.

0 Reply

Flrdsgns Flrdsgns

In response to “Yet in the 80's we voted overwhelmingly to...

Sounds like you have an issue with your state non representative representatives.

Giving up is one option. Fighting back is another. That's why I joined the Tea Party. We don't always win, but do so more and more often.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. If you do nothing, you've made your choice anyway which is what the elitists are counting on.

I know you're not the enemy Flanders, but you have a way to go. I wish you good luck.

+111 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Nice try Flanders, but the California...

The Tea Party is just too conservative for me. My politics are center left. I can work with both center left and center right people. I have found the extremes on either end only focus on what they believe and refuse to ever negotiate. In my opinion, that will be the downfall of this country, the inability to ever compromise with the other side.

+333 Reply

Flrdsgns Flrdsgns

In response to “The Tea Party is just too conservative for...

Your politic leanings sound very similar to mine.

Just ten-twenty years ago I would have pictured our the politics of the U.S. citizens to be a normal bell curve, where the majority of the people where not very far left or right. Nowadays I can't imagine what the distribution might look like.. flat? in inverted bell?

If Russia has anything to do with this, we are losing badly.

01 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

In response to “Yet California is a productive state, pays...

Sanctuary cities..... How can you say they don't protect illegals. In many cases California won't even bring charges against an illegal if they would be forced to notify Federal officials.

+333 Reply

JustJimColo JustJimColo

In response to “Sanctuary cities..... How can you say they...

I would go along with notifying the Feds when an illegal commits a crime and is in prison. It isn't up to the State to provide manpower to police and search for illegals. Immigration is a Federal responsibility not a State responsibility.

0 Reply

Flrdsgns Flrdsgns

In response to “I would go along with notifying the Feds when...

It is up to the Sates to notify Federal law enforcement when they apprehend an illegal for a crime. That's the law. All it takes is for a cop to call the federal agency and let them know. Without inter agency cooperation, we'd have catch and release all day long. Should a cop turn a bank robber loose because it's a Federal crime?

+333 Reply

JustJimColo JustJimColo

In response to “It is up to the Sates to notify Federal law...

I said I would go along with notifying the Feds. That costs nothing, and California should co-operate with the Feds regarding notification.

+111 Reply

Flrdsgns Flrdsgns

In response to “I would go along with notifying the Feds when...

Listen up Flanders - no one is asking you police to go out looking for illegals. However, in the normal course of their day to day activity, it's pretty likely that they will run into one or more of them. When they do - apprehend - that's all we're asking.

And that's also why I don't think you have a clear idea of who republicans, conservatives or Tea Partiers are. You clearly misunderstand what we're after.

+333 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Listen up Flanders - no one is asking you...

It costs a lot of time and money for to apprehend someone. Paperwork, time away from the job to cart the person to jail, the cost of feeding them, and housing them in a cell. If the feds want to pay for it, then maybe they could talk about it, but they don't, and I would rather the police spent their time on someone actually committing a crime and not on someone who may be here without papers just looking for work.

Maybe you could explain what the conservative/tea party movement is about. From what I see of the Tea Party or Freedom caucus whatever they want to call themselves, they oppose anything other than military. They refuse to ever compromise, and that is going to be the downfall of the country. Not everyone will agree 100% with what the Tea Party wants, so your failure to negotiate or compromise is not doing the country any good.

01 Reply

Flrdsgns Flrdsgns

In response to “It costs a lot of time and money for to...

Not EVERYONE is going to agree 100% on anything. So, you may want to consider upgrading your own expectations.

Your complaint about the cost of the police doing their job is priceless.

By the way, apprehension is not such a big deal if you have the guy pulled over already for speeding, tail light out, etc.

I know Obama made it popular to enforce only the laws he liked - but in the grown up world, that's not how it works.

+332 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Not EVERYONE is going to agree 100% on...

Not the job of the state or local police to enforce immigration laws. If the Federal government wants to stop people they think is illegal, they should hire more federal agents. I pay state taxes, I want that money to go to the state, not to help federal authorities do the job they are responsible for.

0 Reply

Flrdsgns Flrdsgns

In response to “Not the job of the state or local police to...

Implementing sanctuary policies is not only reckless to the safety of residents in a community, but in many cases, also constitutes a breach of obligations to the constituents public officials swore to protect when taking office. Rather than obstruct the enforcement of federal law, law enforcement should work cooperatively with the federal government to ensure a uniform system of law that protects public safety.

Even the average illegal alien, who some claim is “otherwise law-abiding,” violates numerous other state and federal laws, including, but not limited to, those prohibiting identity theft, forgery, and driving without a license or insurance, creating real victims through their behavior. State and local law enforcement become complicit in such law-breaking when they come across an illegal alien and refuse to act.

Some states bear more of the weight than others, often due to sanctuary policies. For instance, California taxpayers spent more than $25 billion in 2014 to subsidize illegal immigration, and Texas taxpayers spent just over $12 billion. Such costs come in the form of education, health care, welfare, and law enforcement resources. Additionally, job displacement and wage depression caused by large populations of unauthorized workers inevitably add to taxpayer expenses as more citizens and legal residents require assistance from public services.

Your state officials can of course continue to ignore common sense and their obligations to serve and protect if they wish. And then they (and likely the state) will suffer a slap down for their spoiled brat behavior at the hand of the federal government.

Personally, I would like nothing more than barring travel to / from California to protect the rest of us from California.

+222 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Implementing sanctuary policies is not only...

Which circles us back to my original comment about Californians voting overwhelmingly to deny illegals admittance to public schools, no medical, and no welfare, but the courts overturned the election and the will of the people.

Immigration is such an easy fix if they really want to fix it. Just require all business to use e-verify. Any business caught hiring an illegal should be heavily fined for a first offense, if caught a second time, take away their business. If there were no jobs, the illegals would go elsewhere.
As far as drug cartels, if the American people would stop buying drugs, problem solved there too.

0 Reply

Flrdsgns Flrdsgns

In response to “Which circles us back to my original comment...

So, it's NOT OK for police to detain and hand over illegals they come across while in the normal course of their work,

But, it's fine and dandy for schools, doctors and social workers to do so?

And, instead of deporting illegals, you want to take out your frustration on employers?

Your solution to the drug problem is brilliant. We could stop prostitution the same way! Just tell prostitutes not to do it anymore! Why hasn't anyone ever come up with these ideas before now? [That's sarcasm by the way.]

+333 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “It costs a lot of time and money for to...

"It costs a lot of time and money for to apprehend someone. Paperwork, time away from the job to cart the person to jail, the cost of feeding them, and housing them in a cell." (The job of police is to apprehend criminals and take them to jail.)

Remember, at this point they have already been apprehended because of a crime. Are you suggesting we should not apprehend criminals? Or that we should only put Americans in jails? Since a crime has already been committed, it is now only a matter of deciding what jail they should go to. Federal or local.

+111 Reply

JustJimColo JustJimColo

In response to “"It costs a lot of time and money for to...

What crime? Just stopping someone because they have brown skin is just plain wrong. Immigration is a Federal program, not State, State resources should not be used for Federal programs.

+111 Reply

Flrdsgns Flrdsgns

In response to “What crime? Just stopping someone because...

When all other logic fails.... pull the race card.

+112 Reply

JustJimColo JustJimColo

In response to “Yet California is a productive state, pays...

Huh what??? Oh man sadly you don't even have a clue that you have been successfully brainwashed by the far left/"progressives"...where there's not a doubt in my mind that you honesty do believe in what you posted.
Kind of like how our country's Public Schools/Universities, news and entertainment media have convinced half of our country to believe that the Democrat party freed the slaves, were the party who wanted women to have the right to vote, the party for Civil Rights and for equal pay(enacted in 1963)....all INTRODUCED by REPUBLICANS in office, NOT Democrats!! IN FACT, it was a Republican Congresswoman (Stanley) back in 1942 who first put forth the idea for the EQUAL PAY ACT...which was FINALLY signed into law in 1963.
Those on the left want young women of today to naively believe that they're being paid less than a man for the SAME JOB, when in fact it's been against the law to do so since 1963.

The stats of women being paid less compared to men is because of their CHOICE of their careers, whereas men attending college usually overwhelming tend to CHOOSE to be lawyers, doctors, and engineers, and women tend to CHOOSE to major in a line of work that pays MUCH less than a Lawyer, Doctor or an Engineer does....therefore based on the average pay of women vs men OF COURSE it comes out to men making more money than women!!!

As far as the Sports and Entertainment business in our country of women making less money than men.. that's all about who's most popular....NOT because of their gender. Look Michelle Williams made less money than Mark Walberg in that movie BECAUSE he's an A list actor(a draw for people to go see that movie), and she's not. Just like how Oprah was paid more money doing her talk show than any guy on TV in the history of talk shows...NOT because she was a woman, but because she was a likable/relatable TV talk show host, therefore eventually her being paid A LOT MORE MONEY than her male counterparts in her line of work!

+222 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

I honestly don't understand how that could bother anyone. Don't you carry your I.D. with you? It's not as if they shoot people without papers down or take them to concentration camps. I thought I clicked on "Disagree." Guess not.

+113 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

In response to “I honestly don't understand how that could...

The ID most people carry with them is their driver's license which doesn't prove that you're here legally if you're in a state that issues licenses to just anyone.

+11 Reply

Linnster Linnster

In response to “The ID most people carry with them is their...

Then states should provide citizenship status on licenses.

+221 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

In response to “Then states should provide citizenship status...

That's what "Real ID" will be when all the states adopt it and you'll need a Real ID in order to fly domestically.

+222 Reply

Linnster Linnster

In response to “That's what "Real ID" will be when...

Why are states holding out against something that will solve the problem?

+11 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

In response to “Why are states holding out against something...

Compliance costs, citizen opposition, privacy concerns, and the 10th Amendment most notably. The barcode and gold star are a bit...creepy, shall we say. Of course, you can upgrade your gold star to a US flag (at least in my state) by going with the "enhanced" version, which sports an RFID chip. Oh, and they won't be required to vote, or most things for that matter (yet, anyway). Just flying, entering federal buildings and nuclear plants.

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “Compliance costs, citizen opposition, privacy...

The alternative is putting up border walls around every state.

0 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

In response to “The alternative is putting up border walls...

Really, Jerry? I don't need one unless I fly (after 2020), enter a federal building/facility, or a nuclear power plant. I don't know too many illegals from Mexico attempting those things.

0 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “Really, Jerry? **I don't need one**...

About 12 years ago, there were a number of illegals who had jobs in various nuclear power facilities. (So much for the myth that illegals are only working in agriculture and jobs that nobody wants.)

https://www.washingtontimes.com...-112917-3277r/

http://www.rense.com/general21/pa.htm

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/97756...ilitary-bases/

I could go on with more links, and there are many Boz..

01 Reply

JustJimColo JustJimColo

In response to “About 12 years ago, there were a number of...

And why exactly is that, Jim? Have employers not been held accountable, perhaps? Has our military also not been held accountable for who is allowed on bases??? That's just sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. The military could easily recitify that by vetting contractors and their employees they allow on base themselves and issuing their own ID. I'm also not convinced the military is competent to be outsourcing in the first place.

01 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “And why exactly is that, Jim? Have...

That's it Boz. Nobody is being held accountable. They award contracts, and then the companies who get the contract's, sub out the work to others.
It's like you hire me and my company to do a job because of my expertise for $75 an hour, and I hire another company to do it for $35 an hour, and they hire people off the street to do it for $20 an hour.

+222 Reply

JustJimColo JustJimColo

In response to “Really, Jerry? **I don't need one**...

That brings us back to drivers licenses stating whether someone is a citizen or not working as a tool against illegal immigration. Forget buildings and nuclear power plants; that's not what we were talking about to begin with.

+111 Reply

JerryHendrickson JerryHendrickson

In response to “That brings us back to drivers licenses...

I have no problem with that, Jerry. That could have easily been accomplished without the Real ID act, barcodes, and RFID chips.

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “Why are states holding out against something...

For one thing, it's probably a very expensive thing to do. For another, probably not every state feels that they need more o an ID than a driver's license since you don't have to be a citizen to fly domestically. Several states requested extensions, New York being one, but I think by 2020, all states will have to comply.

0 Reply

Linnster Linnster

In response to “I honestly don't understand how that could...

Because it's a slippery slope. Once we give away rights like those in the 4th Amendment we never get them back.

+335 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

There are times I don't have a problem with it. I've been stopped "randomly" and asked for my drivers license at sobriety checkpoints. I've been checked "randomly" on military installations and asked for an ID.
If someone is acting suspiciously, or seems "out of place", I can see them being asked. (Someone sitting in a parked car outside of a bank or business for a long period o time. Someone who appears to be following someone. Someone who is trying to conceal themselves.)
It's not a safe world out there anymore.

+222 Reply

JustJimColo JustJimColo

In response to “There are times I don't have a problem with...

It has always been a "dangerous world", but people's perception of how dangerous has little correlation with reality. Crime has been on a downward trend for more than two decades. There are more people, so larger numbers, but rates have been dropping and in some cases, most notably murders, even the raw numbers have been dropping. The actual number of murders (per FBI stats) were higher every single year from 1971 through 1997 than in 2016, and that despite a spike in 2016, not to mention the increased population.

Politicians and the media hype the dangers. 24/7 news and instant updates by social media, combined with the hype has stoked people's fears.

+332 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “It has //always// been a "dangerous...

Boz, I don't agree that crime has decreased. I believe that crime has just changed. While some types of crime have decreased, other crimes have increased, and the new types of crime have skyrocketed with the advancement in technology.
Things like theft used to be a person going into a store and stealing something. Today, theft is committed by someone who steals a persons identity, empty's their bank account and uses their credit cards ect. It's also more difficult to catch the new thieves.
50 years ago, you never even heard of identity theft. Today, almost everyone gets touched by it.
I also think that today, there are so many more crimes that don't get reported. When we were young, if someone stole a bike, we reported it stolen. Today, people just accept it as something that happens and that if they go to the trouble to report it, nothing is going to happen anyway.
The classification of crimes has also changed. At one time staling a car was grand theft, a felony. In some states, it is now a misdemeanor.

0 Reply

JustJimColo JustJimColo

In response to “Boz, I don't agree that crime has decreased...

Sure, crime has changed, and crime will always be with us. But people constantly talk about how much more *dangerous* it is today. People are frightened by dangerous crimes. They fear being assaulted, robbed, or murdered. I hear it from people on here, on other sites, in the 3D world...people are afraid...and their fears are hyped and heightened by the news, by pols running for re-election, by this so-called "common knowledge" that everyone "knows". Except it simply is not true. Crime is down, per capita and in raw numbers in many categories. People shouldn't live in manufactured fear, Jim.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “There are times I don't have a problem with...

I bet you wouldnt feel so casual about being pulled over if you were not a white man.
Out of place for many people of color means driving through a predominately white neighborhood. That's all. And then treated poorly by the police.
How many times have you been pulled over, patted down and questioned for a burned out tail light? Or just being in the wrong place?

+333 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “I bet you wouldnt feel so casual about being...

If I wasn't doing anything wrong Carla, of course I wouldn't feel uncomfortable. My peers in the field I work in, are from ALL races. We work all over the US and all over the world. In the 30+ years I've been in this field, I have never heard of ANY peer claiming to have been harassed or treated badly by police because of their color. Zero. There have been a lot of dangerous situations I've been in "because I am white".

The standard response is, "You can't understand because you aren't black." That's BS. Should a white guy yell racism anytime a black, brown, or Asian cop pulls them over and then tell people, you don't understand because you're not white?

People play the victim card all the time, because they can, and because it pays.

Police pat people down because of their demeanor. Color has nothing to do with. (Except in very rare cases)

If a black man is pulled over and won't have any eye contact with the cop, is acting strange, and looks like he is going to try to run, and doesn't have a drivers lisence, I hope the cop does pat him down. (It's not their first day on the block, and you'll see a black cop pat him down as fast as a white cop.)
Lets take that same black guy, except now he is very cooperative, doesn't show any signs of guilt, makes eye contact with the cop and has his drivers license and registration, the cop will tell him why he stopped him, cite him for any infraction and send him on his way.

Now reverse what I said above and the guy is white. Same reaction by the cops.

Let's look at the places a black can't go without putting his life in danger. Can you think of any, "specifically"?
I can give you a long list of areas I would probably be killed if I was in them at night, solely because I am white.

Ever watch COP's? They pull over as many whites for what you described, and patted just as many down, as blacks. Why don't we hear more about this? Because the white guy isn't going to yell racism because he was arrested for doing something wrong. How many times have we seen the race card pulled? It makes news, and then later, when it is proven there was no racism or the person lied, we're lucky if it makes the back page of the newspaper.

There is so much racial rhetoric about "If you weren't white"____ fill in the blank that it makes me laugh most of the time. It has no meaning anymore.

+111 Reply

JustJimColo JustJimColo

In response to “I bet you wouldnt feel so casual about being...

I HAVE been pulled over, patted down and questioned for a burned out tail light. Head light too. Other times for unspecified reasons - including being in the wrong place.

How many times have you been labeled a racist, xenophobe, homophobe or targeted as a problem because your an old white man clinging to your religion and guns?

Your problems are not unique Carla. Welcome to the real world.

+223 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “I HAVE been pulled over, patted down and...

Bud, i have lived in the real world my entire life.
I think my situation in this life has taught me, not tolerance, but empathy.
I think more people should learn.

0 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “Bud, i have lived in the real world my entire...

Empathy, eh?

Here are six indicators that the problem isn’t everyone else, it’s you. If you see yourself here, don’t feel bad. I understand. I’ve been there.

Everyone else is an idiot.
You have to do everything yourself.
You’ve had an endless run of difficult situations.
Someone is always standing in your way.
Nobody else knows how to communicate.
Everyone is behaving badly.

Every once in a while it’s true that the problem is other people.

Look around you very carefully. If everyone else is an idiot, the truth is that the problem is probably you.

+222 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Empathy, eh? Here are six indicators that...

Im sorry, bud.
If that's how you think i think. I certainly dont believe i behave that way.

+111 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “Im sorry, bud. If that's how you think i...

I don't know that's how you think. I saw a glaring misfire in your previous comment -
'I think my situation in this life has taught me, not tolerance, but empathy.
I think more people should learn.'

The lesson you allegedly learned was empathy. So you feel you have the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. And, from this important life lesson you deduce that others should learn empathy - like you did.

That just doesn't sound like the response of an empath. It actually sounds more like paranoia.

+222 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “I don't know that's how you think. I saw a...

You sure have a skewed way at looking at people.
I dont get how trying to understand how others are affected by this world constitutes paranoia.

+333 Reply

Carla Carla

In response to “You sure have a skewed way at looking at...

Trying to understand others and stating that others should change are two different things. You've said both during this conversation.

0 Reply

Budwick Budwick

That ship sailed on 26 October 2001, Vic. Our representatives in DC ceded most of our rights between the 2nd, when the USA PATRIOT Act (my oh my...doesn't that just make ya feel all warm and fuzzy, and swell your heart with patriotism?) was first introduced in the House, the final version (which was not made available for all members of Congress to read before voting on) was introduced in the House on the 23rd and ended with Bush signing it on the 26th. And they did so not only with the blessing of the vast majority of Americans...but the demands of Americans, even. Subsequent laws under Bush and Obama restricted our rights even further. Rights-restricting laws already in effect gained new traction, as well.

Thing is, few seemed to question how such a bill, 342 pages long, written in the usual legalese and containing many such phrases as:

Act (50 U.S.C. 1702) is amended—
22 (1) in subsection ( a)(1)—
23 ( a) at the end of subparagraph ( a) (flush
24 to that subparagraph), by striking ‘‘; and’’ and
25 inserting a comma and the following: (followed by nearly two full pages of additions, subtractions, and substitutions),

which ammended 11 acts, 10 Titles, created 9 U.S.C. Sections, redesignated 1, and amended 95 other U.S.C. Sections...(Whew!) could have been put together between the 12th of September and the 23rd of October. Hmmm... (hmm)

One of Titles amended was Title 8, under which the Border Patrol gets their authority. I'm sure it's probably been amended by subsequent laws as well. My point being, the damage is far larger than a bus being boarded in Florida...but if that's what it takes to piss people off, fine, as long as they get pissed off enough to look at the larger picture.

As to that particular event, I could not tell enough from the video to say with certainty whether that was improper or not. The poster stated proof of citizenship was demanded of all passengers, but the video shows one person targeted and removed. More information is needed for me to weigh in on that one event.

As always...JMHO

+554 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “That ship sailed on 26 October 2001, Vic...

As usual Bozette, I think you're spot on. Shortly after 9/11 a Dutch friend and I were discussing terrorism and she asked me what I thought the U.S. should do. I told her I was actually concerned about how the U.S. might react militarily. A joke at the time was: Should we retaliate (and bomb the Middle East back into the stone age) out of blind rage, or should we do that with a measured, focused rage.

Looking back now I see I should have been more concerned about the political backlash and our liberties. You're absolutely right. Most people supported/demanded the Patriot Act. It was done in the heat of the moment, and I'll admit that I wasn't opposed to it at that time.

The problem is that these backlashes are codified and take on a life of their own. One of my biggest problems with President Obama was that he stated that we must reject the false choice between our safety and our ideals, yet did nothing. That is why I often agree with Rand Paul.

+222 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

In response to “As usual Bozette, I think you're spot on...

Thank you, Phil.

Everyone was stunned, hurt, and angry following 9/11, and understandably so. But we allowed things to happen that we never should have, the Patriot Act among the first. And yes, once codified, laws are nearly impossible to get rescinded, and actually have a tendency to expand - Congress is even loath to allow provisions to sunset.

One point I make above is that that law was on the shelf waiting for the opportunity to shove it down our throats. Now granted, given that particular event, it didn't even need shoving, as people fairly begged to give up rights for a false sense of security...but anyone who thinks that legislation was started from scratch, proposed by the 2nd, fined tuned, and passed by the 25th simply has not read it.

Rand is one of the few, and often the only one, in Congress I find myself agreeing with.

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In my opinion when someone puts on police uniform its like BAM!!! Instant **** being a cop does not make you god. I see cops Speeding constantly must be donut businesses are booming.

+444 Reply

Metal_god14

In response to “In my opinion when someone puts on police...

In any profession there is always those INDIVIDUALS who will take advantage of their "power" while on the job. However, 99.9% of the time when you see a police cruiser speeding it's BECAUSE they're speeding to get to the scene of a crime already committed OR speeding via a 911 call to put THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE to prevent/save the life of someone in danger of being killed!!

0 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

With most countries having so many immigrants, I would feel save if anyone is randomly checked, I have no objections myself as I have nothing to hide....

+333 Reply

JD JD

In response to “With most countries having so many...

Exactly. Those who have a problem with having to show their ID clearly/obviously have something to hide.... therefore why the "progressive"/Democrats in my country are vehemently against people having to show an ID when voting.
As I've stated in other posts... in the USA an adult has to have a valid ID to purchase alcohol, cigarettes etc., etc. etc. etc......yet the Liberal politicians in the USA constantly state that it would be a "hardship" for people to have to produce an ID to vote??????

+112 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

all I can do is **** laugh

Dinesh D’Souza: ‘My File Shows the FBI Red-Flagged Me As an OBAMA CRITIC’ – Then Sent Him to Reeducation Camp

+111 Reply

Neanderthal_Momdoer Neanderthal_Momdoer

Vic, in the USA when one is a LEGAL citizen who is an adult it's always been the norm for us to know we will/can be asked to show our ID's to police officers for ANY reason, also when purchasing alcohol, to get into a club, when writing a check, when opening a checking account, when renting/buying a home, when renting a car, when registering our children for school etc.....yet now you "Dreamer" sympathizers feel that it's NOW wrong for government officials(ICE/Police officers) to ask for one's ID because they might be "Dreamers"???? Give me a break.

+111 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

In response to “Vic, in the USA when one is a LEGAL citizen...

These people were not doing any of those things. They were riding on a bus minding their own business.

You give me a break.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “These people were not doing any of those...

As a WHITE FEMALE I was also minding my own business one day while driving and talking to my son at the same time when I got randomly(TARGETED smh) pulled over by a police officer for speeding ... where BECAUSE I was HONEST, POLITE AND RESPECTFUL to that police officer telling him that my son was already running late for his practice because of me and I was so sorry for not realizing that I was speeding, he let me go without even writing up a warning ticket to be on record. It really is THAT SIMPLE on how to behave RIGHT when being pulled over.

0 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

In response to “As a WHITE FEMALE I was also minding my own...

Now imagine how you would feel if you were not a criminal and they pulled you over? What if you were polite, not white, and they cuffed you and dragged you off for speeding and sent your kid to child protective services.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Now imagine how you would feel if you were...

Vic, I clearly stated in my post that I was a WHITE mom driving my son to his practice when I got randomly pulled over for speeding, NOT a criminal!! However if I was raised as WHITE TRASH where I thought it was NORMAL to behave in an indignant manner towards our police, there's not a doubt in my mind that IF I behaved in a WHITE TRASH manner towards that WHITE police officer who pulled me over, he would have been COLOR BLIND to my WHITE disrespectful behavior towards him as an officer to uphold the rule of law!!!

Sadly the liberals of today have been INDOCTRINATED by the aging hippy far left nuts who have convince you all to fight for rights you've had for decades.

0 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

In response to “Vic, I clearly stated in my post that I was a...

Did you even watch the video?

That woman was not indignant.

And you admitted to being a criminal. You were speeding! This woman was doing nothing. Sitting quietly on a bus minding her own business. She was quiet, kind, cooperative and gentle during the entire proceeding.

You are trying to make this about race and it is not. It is about unreasonable search and seizure. One of your fundamental rights, that you seem to be willing to give up so you can loud proclaim how "WHITE" you are.

If you want to make this about race, I can post tons of videos of people who do not brag about being "WHITE" getting shot while being polite and cooperative.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Did you even watch the video? That woman was...

Ugh yeah that's it Vic, smh.

Look, the only thing you "tolerant" liberals have left in your pockets in your constant attempt to FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORM AMERICA into your "progressive" vision/version of AmeriKa is for your base to ONCE again USE your DNC talking points of race and gender as your credit cards to charge people who disagree with you as being racist, bigots, homophobes etc..
INSANITY is one who does the same exact thing over and over again repeatedly, in their HOPE that this time while doing the same EXACT thing and FAILING will have a different result the next time lol!!

0 Reply

Gronk17 Gronk17

No government officials stop people without reasonable criminal suspicion and we need to get rid of terrorist or violent gang members!!!

+111 Reply

1stMate

No government officer will stop anyone without criminal suspicion. They must try to stop the vicious gang members and terrorists for the general public safety. Beside, anyone can file a chage to any government officer who stops you for no reasonable criminal suspicion.

+111 Reply

1stMate

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