They served their idols and were ensnared by them. I support the constitution: <em>the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.</em>  Our support of freedom means little as our children are gunned down with a frequency rivaled by the most savage war-torn regions of the least civilized nations. I do not know what the answer is but I am convinced it is not the sacrificing our children upon an altar built to a false idol.

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Piper2Chuck_Tom
They served their idols and were ensnared by them. I support the constitution: the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Our support of freedom means little as our children are gunned down with a frequency rivaled by the most savage war-torn regions of the least civilized nations. I do not know what the answer is but I am convinced it is not the sacrificing our children upon an altar built to a false idol.

Top Comment

You realize most school shootings are done by "children", right?
Every one of those children broke the law, many times, before ever pulling a trigger.
Anyone planning on breaking the law, isn't concerned that there is one more law.

+666 See / Add Replies

Rembio Rembio

Comments

Money, Fetuses, and guns > lives and people's happiness = The Right Wing agenda.

0111 Reply

TomboyJanet TomboyJanet

It's frightening to consider that a policy might not solve the problem. But I suspect that's the case.

I love the book of Psalms and 1 / 2 Samuel. Familiar with the origin of Solomon, Vic? If not, check it out, it's a pretty astounding story.

+332 Reply

ForkNdaRoad ForkNdaRoad

You realize most school shootings are done by "children", right?
Every one of those children broke the law, many times, before ever pulling a trigger.
Anyone planning on breaking the law, isn't concerned that there is one more law.

+666 Reply

Rembio Rembio

In response to “You realize most school shootings are done by...

Vic knows that, just as he knows that both violent crimes and gun crimes have been trending downwards, and that school shootings and deaths from school shootings are statistically rare and are lower than they were in the '90s. He's aware that ~ half of all gun deaths are suicides, and that most of the rest is due to "ordinary crime"...including gang violence, which has been prevalent in areas with strict gun laws. He knows all that as I have provided the links proving it all before.

He doesn't care about facts. He likes to present anyone who defends the 2nd Amendment as 'right-wing, religious nut jobs' who don't care about the death of children. Yet he even claims to support the 2nd Amendment himself while decrying others who do as "worshipping false idols".

+555 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “Vic knows that, just as he knows that both...

The NRA is a false idol; the constitution is not.

Removing the right to bear arms is not the answer, neither is blocking school exits nor is it arming teachers.

I am open to suggestion real suggestions, as to what might actually work.

+11 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “The NRA is a false idol; the constitution is...

The NRA is not an "idol" at all, nor does anyone worship it. It is a lobbyist organization, and while I wholeheartedly agree that we need lobby reform, it is breaking no laws. Nor does it "support terrorists" or sell guns, as many claim.

You likely will not care for any real suggestions I give, Vic, but here goes...

* Address mental health, and not by labeling and drugging more kids (of which the US does 2-3 times more than other western countries) or by continuing the culture of victimhood, but by actively working to drastically limit both except when truly justified.

* Allow kids to be kids.

* Reform education: quit pushing agendas disquised as "teaching"; quit "teaching" to and for testing as the end-all-be-all; teach critical thinking; quit pushing college as the only and ideal option, instead look for and foster children's natural abilities, gifts, and inclinations; schools should be guided and answerable at the local level, not dictated to from DC and a coalition of governors - who very questionably required those developing guidelines to sign non-disclosure agreements; get rid of zero-tolerance policies; etc.

* I believe the "nuclear family" is largely eschewed by modern society, but is fundamental to a well-functioning society. That is not to disparage single parents, as I personally know some who did/do a fantastic job and that sometimes they do better precisely because the other parent is absent. Still, overall, I do think kids do better with both parents playing large roles in their lives. Two ways we might address that, both of which would take time for results to be seen, are to quit disparaging traditional family values (which may or may not include religion) and through criminal justice reform.

* Place a premium on personal responsibility.

Beyond all that, the media, politicians, and special interest groups need to quit fear mongering and deal with facts. And while we continue to try to reduce violence, we must recognize that a certain amount is inherently a price of freedom...not to mention that it is simply a fact of life, utopia does not exist.

+333 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “The NRA is not an "idol" //at all//...

Great suggestions and I cannot argue with any of them.

I will however revisit the idea that the NRA is an idol. Many hold it as a virtuous idol and wear hats and bumper stickers honoring it. Others consider it an evil force giving it the same level of influence as Satan. Your interpretation is much more reasoned and I wish more people had your perspective

+221 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Great suggestions and I cannot argue with any...

While NRA supporters may wear hats and have bumper stickers on their cars, that is not idolatry. It's called support. They support the NRA which they believe helps protect their rights. And granted that some see the NRA as a villian or even a "terrorist organization", but even they stop short of equating it to the level of an anti-christ or Satan.

Hyperbole is not conducive to meaningful discussion. We will never see productive discussions on this (or any other) issue unless/until both sides realize that.

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “You realize most school shootings are done by...

How about some accountability to those who legally own guns but fail to take reasonable actions to secure those guns? I don't believe the parents' of a school shooter are responsible for any murder committed by their child, but they are responsible for ensuring others don't use their guns to commit murder.

+443 Reply

PhilboydStudge PhilboydStudge

In response to “How about some accountability to those who...

If you have them locked up, that's a reasonable expectation of security.

0 Reply

Rembio Rembio

Of course you don't know what the answer is! Even you realize that people that break laws don't care about breaking laws!

Your problem is that you refuse to look at what makes sense - giving school faculty the option to be trained and armed, put retire police officers on site (ones that would actually engage the shooter.)

Another example of an on site officer STOPPING a shooting before it got started occurred last week. You might have missed it cuz your MSM was too busy glamorizing another shooter in a gun free zone that wasn't challenged.

+333 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Of course you don't know what the answer is!...

I like the idea of intervention officers on site. Not a big fan of arming teachers, but it is their right to bear arms (IMHO) so not even sure why this is a questionable practice.

Still not convinced that those options are enough. As I said, I don;t know the answer. Your suggestion seem to have merit, how about some more ideas?

+111 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “I like the idea of intervention officers on...

How about trying some the existing ideas? BTW - It is NOT anyone's right to bear arms in gun free zones. That is why "this is a questionable practice."

One thing for sure is gun free zones are soft targets. How many more school massacres do you think will be required before progressives will take actual steps to protect kids in school?

Personally, I don't think the kids are as important to the left as dismantling the 2nd amendment. I mean, they are like a well oiled machine when there is a shooting - The left is bitching about gun laws before the victims bodies have assumed room temperature!

+333 Reply

Budwick Budwick

There is no easy answer to the way the world is going and why..the uncivilized countries in the world have been killing each other for years...we don't have guns in England but people are being murdered..when children murder children, things are getting bad and I think the law should be more strict on who can get guns and parents must make sure their guns are locked away and the ammunition is locked away separately ...

+111 Reply

JD JD

In response to “There is no easy answer to the way the world...

Well that's a thought however it doesn't support the concept of unrestricted right to arms. I think many agree with you. It is a real conundrum.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Well that's a thought however it doesn't...

There must be restrictions...it seems too easy for kids to get guns...

+111 Reply

JD JD

“A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

+111 Reply

Piper2 Piper2

In response to ““A //**well-regulated Militia**//...

They way you 'regulate' a militia is to have a gun yourself so you can stop them if they become unregulated.

Just saying.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “They way you 'regulate' a militia is to have...

I see. I simply put the whole Second Amendment there, obviously.

Just saying....

+111 Reply

Piper2 Piper2

taking my Rights away for something I did not do
will make you LESS SAFE

let's see if I understand the stuation
the LEFT wants me to fill out paper work an submit my intire **** life story in order to excerise my 2nd AMENDMENT RIGHTS

BUTT!!!!!! showing I.D. to vote is Suppression

trucks kill
cell phones kill
make drugs ILLEGAL, they kill a lot

ohh wait... they are ALL ready ILLEGAL

question for you
gun girl


where you think she be standing
with you or facing you

that's a new twist
a religious LEFT freak
that's down right comical

+112 Reply

Neanderthal_Momdoer Neanderthal_Momdoer

In response to “taking my Rights away for something I did not...

I don't know what it will take to convince you that I want you to have as many guns as you want. Or why I even bother trying.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “I don't know what it will take to convince...

the Marxist party don't even bother lying anymore


they are spoiling for a fight.....that they are

0 Reply

Neanderthal_Momdoer Neanderthal_Momdoer

School shootings are an awful thing, but they are basically very rare. When it comes to causes of death among youths, violence is one of the leading causes, but school shooting deaths are so rare they barely register statistically.

+111 Reply

Maze Maze

In response to “School shootings are an awful thing, but they...

Really? That's your argument?

"It really not that many dead kids when you think about." ?!?

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Really? That's your argument? "It...

It sucks when it happens, but it's a couple dozen people a year in a country of 330,000,000 people, a kid is more likely to die by being struck by lightning or stung by bees.

+111 Reply

Maze Maze

In response to “It sucks when it happens, but it's a couple...

That's why we cancel little league games for lightning and bees.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Really? That's your argument? "It...

In the wake of a mass school shooting such a meme is misleading. People see that and really believe it is referring to mass school shootings.

https://www.washingtonexaminer....riously-flawed

"The parameters CNN followed in this count are:
A shooting that involved at least one person being shot (not including the shooter)
A shooting that occurred on school grounds
We included grades K through college/university level
We included gang violence, fights and domestic violence
We included accidental discharge of a firearm as long as the first two parameters are met"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/...rnd/index.html

News sources have repeatedly cited flawed stats:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/...umn/343100002/

It is fear mongering, Vic. Saying otherwise is simply dishonest.

https://news.northeastern.edu/2...searcher-says/

https://www.motherjones.com/pol...nes-full-data/

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “In the wake of a //mass school shooting//...

So that where we are? These shootings aren't so bad. There are not as many shootings as people think?

Dead children. Dead. Dead.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “So that where we are? These shootings aren't...

No one discounts the tragedy of them, Vic, or that we need to address the problem. Factually, though, they are statistically miniscule. No one considers them insignificant precisely because they are kids.

You (and the media, politicians, etc.) are being dishonest when using such memes, however. You are fear mongering. The odds of dying in a school shooting are extremely small. Far less than getting hit by lightning or being legally executed...or playing sports or traveling to and from school or countless other things kids do every single day. Y'all are causing extreme anxiety and very real psychological damage to kids today whose fear has been hyped to the point that #IfIDieInASchoolShooting is now trending. That is child abuse. Worse...it is psychological terrorism.

+222 Reply

Bozette Bozette

In response to “No one discounts the tragedy of them, Vic, or...

Ok. Good point. And this post doesn't say exclusively "school shootings"

There are still 19 minors a day killed by gun violence in the US.

0 Reply

VicZinc VicZinc OP

In response to “Ok. Good point. And this post doesn't say...

My replies to you on this portion of your post were in response to your meme on school shootings, Vic.

There are 19 minors shot per day, ~3.5 deaths. Still too many. Note that 38% of those are suicides...something your fear mongering may actually increase.

+111 Reply

Bozette Bozette

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