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At what point does disobeying the law/orders from your superiors become a moral obligation?

Top Comment

When they are undeniably immoral. There comes a point where you can't sell out.

+441 See / Add Replies

Logan Logan

Comments

N. Bellic - "I been around long enough to know that there is some things that we don't have a choice about, but there's other times where you got to look at something and make a decision for yourself. I can't follow every order I'm given."

+11 Reply

Tanor_Faux Tanor_Faux

When they are undeniably immoral. There comes a point where you can't sell out.

+441 Reply

Logan Logan

When it starts negatively effecting others? ... especially innocent others?

+221 Reply

Zolfie Zolfie

When it starts negatively effecting others? ... especially innocent others?

+111 Reply

Zolfie Zolfie

When it starts negatively effecting others? ... especially innocent others?

+111 Reply

Zolfie Zolfie

When I would not be able to look myself in the mirror and like what I saw after doing it.

+221 Reply

Linnster Linnster

When it’s an unlawful order. However, since my military time is done, I have no “superiors”.

+444 Reply

trooper trooper

Whenever it feels wrong you know they gave an order you shouldn't follow. I worked for a rich man and paid all his bills. One bank payment was due and he told me not to pay it. But I knew there would be fees and troubles so I paid it. He got mad and I got a new job because I could not stand to let that happen again.

+111 Reply

LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred

Be serious. No matter how immoral things get, there are plenty of people who would jump at the chance to do it if they are sure they can get away with it. Government goons have murdered lots of people in recent history, for no particular reason. IRS exists in violation of the constitution. There are thousands of examples.

+111 Reply

that_guy that_guy

I assume you're talking about the military, and in that case it's very simple: you are obligated to disobey an order that is unlawful.

When you sign up for the US military, you take an oath:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

By joining the military, you know full well your job could easily involve wrecking shit, killing people... making little kids cry... By taking the oath, you agree to turn over virtually all your decision making to the heirarchy you're entering. That means you have a very limited ability to act according to your own ideas of morality. As such, what you think is moral doesn't really count for squat: when it comes to following orders, it comes down to what is legal. And who determines that? Basically your superiors (and the courts).

So what happens if a soldier willfully disobeys an order that is considered to be legal? It's a crime. If you influence another person to disobey, you can be charged with mutiny. You could be demoted, fired, imprisoned, or in time of war you can be sentenced to death.

That's the reality of the situation, if you're not okay with that, don't sign up, because once you sign, they own your ****.

https://www.thebalancecareers.c...orders-3332819

+333 Reply

Maze Maze

If the order is unlawful.

An example in current events might be helpful.

Separating family members of families crossing the border illegally isn't illegal. It's sad and even painful, but so many extenuating circumstances are involved and the only way to keep the children safe during adjudication is to separate them from the adults.

Now, if I were ordered to drag these family members to the side and kill them - that is clearly unlawful and I would disobey.

Glad to be of help.

+111 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “If the order is unlawful. An example in...

What if the laws change?

0 Reply

DWF DWF OP

In response to “What if the laws change?

So that the order is now lawful?

I think the implication is that if the order is lawful, I would follow the order.

0 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “So that the order is now lawful? I think the...

That didn't fly in the Nuremberg trials

01 Reply

DWF DWF OP

In response to “That didn't fly in the Nuremberg trials

Nope, it didn't.
Good thing they're not sending immigrants to gas chambers, eh?

0 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “Nope, it didn't. Good thing they're not...

What if they were?

0 Reply

DWF DWF OP

In response to “What if they were?

I don't hypothetical games DWF.
The comparison you are making is ridiculous.

0 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “I don't hypothetical games DWF. The...

I'm not saying that America is going to send anyone to the gas chambers, I'm just asking what you would do f we were

0 Reply

DWF DWF OP

In response to “I'm not saying that America is going to send...

What would YOU do if the presidents decisions and policies for a year and a half had been the best things to happen in the USA for decades?

0 Reply

Budwick Budwick

In response to “What would YOU do if the presidents...

It would be quite lovely if that happened

01 Reply

DWF DWF OP

As soon as we find someone who is QUALIFIED to determine what is moral and immoral, not someone who "thinks" they are qualified.
There's no such entity, so I do what I think is right, regardless of "law", and let the chips fall.

0 Reply

Him Him

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