+339 Pro-Choice because it's a woman's choice, not some guys' in suits in Washington DC, amirite?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Yes, it should be the womans choice to murder an innocent victum. Of course we don't mind if the "guys in suits" make laws protect other innocent lives... But yeah, it's your body. The baby's body inside you doesn't matter anyway.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Oh shut up @ Johnbeliever you self righteous twit

by Anonymous 14 years ago

that baby has a right to live. everything happns for a reason so you cant punish the baby becasue the mother decided to have sex young or becasue she was rapped. the baby didnt have a choice to whom it would be born to and if there werent people like johnbeleiver and myself who would stand up for the children whom no one wants?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

If they are rapped, it should be special circumstances. It may be better for the child. If the child grows up looking like the guy who rapped her, will she be able to love her/him? Look after her/him as well as she should? It could even push the girl into depression. A baby changes your life, not just the 9 months you carry him/her. Also, the MOTHER didn't have a choice either when she was rapped. What if she was a 14 year old girl? There goes her life. She has to try and support this baby. She has no young, happy life. At that age she should be able to enjoy a childhood, are you to take that away from her? Her sole purpose is the baby, feeding, clothing, housing. She may never marry someone she loves, or go out partying. Hell, she might not be able to finish school. Even if the mother isn't a child, a baby isn't a temporary thing. They have to be ready for him/her for the sake of the child and themselves.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm not really sure how speaking up for those who cannot speak for themselves is being self righteous. I mean maybe we should kill all mentally challenged people since their lives are just living off someone else. They cost money and time. It would be better for the human race.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

haha, you are awesome. That is a very good point.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I don't understand why they don't just make it legal and those who are willing to go through with the abortion process can and live with themselves afterwards and everyone that is against it just won't do it. It makes more sense to do it that way than to fight over who is right and wrong when its a very tricky thing to not tread into morality when arguing about abortion. All of the money that goes to the campaigning one way or another could be better spent. Live and let live guys. Because if we were all the same and had the same feelings toward it then there would be no need for legal regulation. So even if you yourself would never abort your unborn child [as I never would] you would never have to deal with yourself the day after you went through with it. Let the people who are willing to pay the price have at it because they will have to think what if... for the rest of their lives.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

(<3Brittany</3): The problem is that some people were fighting for the US gov't health care bill to fund abortions, and there are people in the country who don't believe that their tax money should be going to fund something they believe is morally wrong. There are also people who want to defend the lives of unborn babies. They would look at your plan and say, "Well then. Let's let people go out and shoot kids on the street. If you don't want to, you don't have to. But we're going to let it happen." This isn't necessarily about letting people choose NOT to have abortions--that's more a free will question. This is about people wanting to stop other people from choosing TO have abortions because they believe it's on the same level as intentional homicide.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

And what about the baby's choice? I'm sure it would like to live.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

EXACTLY. Abortion is murder. :/

by Anonymous 14 years ago

It's not a baby. It's a fetus, it has no thoughts, no feelings, it's a cluster of cells. @91716 (Demo): It's not murder it's a cluster of cells. And if the parent can live with that choice, then let them. I'm not saying everyone should go out and have abortions, I'm saying they should be an option because it's not murder.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Based on that logic we should legalize homicide be legal. Those who want to murder people can, those who don't won't. The only problem is the victim! Like you said we should live and LET live.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Its really just about the freedom of choice. If you choose not too, don't. That's all

by Anonymous 14 years ago

PRO-LIFE!!!

by Anonymous 14 years ago

HELL YEAH!

by Anonymous 14 years ago

As far as the comment about freedom of choice: you taken the freedom of the unborn child to live. He or she doesn't get that choice. Our Constitution specifically states that we have rights, but lose some right when they infringe on others. Unless you are saying that an unborn child is not a person...

by Anonymous 14 years ago

i feel like they can't blanket all cases and say "you all have to keep your babies, whether the father died, whether it was caused by rape, whether you can barely sustain yourself and the baby would suffer, whether the child would spend their whole childhood going from foster home to foster home, you have to keep it." they don't know every situation

by Anonymous 14 years ago

So, by that logic, it is perfectly legitimate to murder children of single parents and children of rape victims. I'm not condoning rape, I just saying two wrongs don't make a right. The point is, these children are alive. Just because they haven't passed through the birth canal does not change that fact.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

that's why it should be the woman's choice. she needs to decide whether she is strong enough to handle the huge responsibility of raising a child. no, we shouldn't just kill all of children that fall into one of those categories,the mother already made the decision. if the mother made the decision to raise the baby i commend her, but i will not think any less of a woman who knew that she couldn't do it. and when the child has already given birth to the child, of course it changes things. i'm not saying any child of a single mother would be better off dead, i'm saying that the mother should make the decision. it's a lot easier to make that choice for someone else when you wouldn't be the one raising the baby

by Anonymous 14 years ago

The problem with that is that you are assuming all mothers trying to get abortions are of sound mind and good intentions, thinking only of the baby's life. What about a woman who is perfectly capable of taking care of her baby but decides--three weeks before the due date--that having a baby just isn't in her plans right now? What if she got a little drunk, thought she was gung ho for motherhood, and now she's changed her mind? Is it fair to kill--and at that point, it's is considered a baby; it's alive--the baby at that point? Leaving the decision entirely up to the mother and without any restrictions is reckless.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

i have said that they shouldn't give abortions to everyone and only those not capable of taking care of a child. and if she gets drunk during her pregnancy then she should not be a mother, anyway. also, most abortion clinics will not abort a baby after 24 weeks and anything after is only due to health complications. after 6 months, it is considered murder (and not until then because the baby does not have a heartbeat)

by Anonymous 14 years ago

So, by this logic, if the mother changed her mind, it would be alright to kill these children. My grandmother was a single mother. Could she decide now to kill my mother? The fact is, it is alive before it is born, and it is alive after it is born. You are advocating the mother's choice to murder her child.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

it isn't the same because it isn't considered murder until the baby has a heartbeat. it is entirely different.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Actually a fetus will have a heartbeat at around 3-4 weeks old.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Murder is murder. If you don't want a baby, don't get pregnant. And don't talk to me about what if she was raped. A life is a life. If you give birth, then decide you cannot parent, there are plenty of people eager to adopt.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

you're right. but have you heard what people who have given up children have gone through. it's not that easy. if everyone could do that there wouldn't be a problem. but not everyone can

by Anonymous 14 years ago

It makes me sadder to think that people would rather murder a child, then to give it up for adoption. I don't understand how that can be easier.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

that's because you've never done it. it is sad, but there are people who do it. and because there are people like that, let them make their own decision. don't make a decision for them that will impact the rest of their lives

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Well, unfortunately, it does not matter whether I've given a child up for adoption or not. In the end, the final question is what is better for the child. In the end, is it better for the child to be put up for adoption, to have adoptive parents or even live in an orphanage, or die? That's the only question that needs to be answered.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

i agree with you! it is better most of the time for the child to be put up for adoption or live in an orphanage. but it should still be the mother's choice. you still haven't agreed that a choice that affects the rest of someone's life should be decided by them and not someone else. and children that have gone from foster home to foster home often feel unwanted and neglected which also affects THEIR entire life. it shouldn't be a decision that is taken lightly or made by someone not involved

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I don't understand why you think that other people shouldn't make decisions on the lives of this mother, but the mother has every right to make the decisions about the life of the child within her. It is hypocritical to say that people shouldn't make decisions for these women, but its perfectly alright to make (life and death) decisions for these babies. Are you saying that these babies don't deserve to life? Because they can't speak or aren't cognizant of their existence, they don't deserve to live? Because they don't have a voice, they aren't allowed to live?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

of course not! were you listening? i don't think you should have an abortion except for certain circumstances. that's why it should be a woman's choice. maybe they should be more strict on who they give it to. and with that logic, you're a hypocrite too. either way somebody is speaking for somebody

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I don't understand how I am a hypocrite. The only truth I claim is that murder is wrong. Abortion is killing a baby inside that doesn't have any rights or voice. Given that it is killing, it is murder. Murder is wrong. I don't understand what circumstances in life are worse than never being born. I'd love for someone to point that out. What if your mother had been in anyone of those circumstances that you think is "okay" to abort. You wouldn't be here.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

if you would be in pain your entire life, would you want to live? if you had a disease that would cause you to suffer, then die young, with no cure, would you want to have been born? oh, yes, what a wonderful, fulfilling life that would be! if your child died like that, would you just go back to your life happy and say "oh i can just have another one. oh well!" ?? it would be a terrible life for both you and your child my mother wouldn't abort me because there was nothing wrong with me. Murder is wrong but once again it's not considered murder until after 6 months when the child has a heartbeat. also, have you ever gone hunting or has your cat ever killed a mouse or have you ever even squashed a bug? do you consider that murder? it's different, isn't it?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Wow, ok, there was A LOT wrong with this last section. First of all, murder is taking the life of a person. Animals and bugs are not people and that is not murder. A child, baby, or embryo is a person. It has 46 chromosomes and is made of human cells. If you kill a person it is murder. An embryo is a person. Killing an embryo is murder. Abortion is murder. Secondly, read the posts at the bottom to learn about what life is and when life starts as a person. There are seven characteristics of life that I have spelled out very plainly that should be easy to follow. A child's heart begins beating WAY before 6 months (I think it's before 6 WEEKS). Anyway, that doesn't matter because life is established before that. Finally, I believe abortion is murder. Can you tell me when murder is justified? If you can tell me when you would murder a person you could see face to face, that would make sense, but otherwise its wrong.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Murder is unlawful killing since abortion isn't unlawful it's not murder. Plus you're not killing a life you're killing a cluster of cells

by Anonymous 14 years ago

By your use of the word "killing," you are implying that you are ending life. If something can cease to live, then it is, in fact, alive and therefore has a life. Crappy logic.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

By the way, I think you need to go back to high school biology. Cells are the basic building block of life. The smallest living thing is a CELL. If you kill a cluster of cells, you are killing a life.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

you kill millions of cells every day. does that make you a serial killer?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

If you are so pro-choice, then maybe you should have chosen to practice safe sex or no sex at all instead of murdering a life that can not speak for itself. "Oh, you don't have a condom? Well, go ahead, I will just have an abortion later so that I don't have to face the consequences of my CHOICES."

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Sooo... What if the child turns out to be gay?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

This is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Don't try to stir up shit.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

yeah what if? what's your point? being gay has nothing to do with any of this!

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Are you attempting to base your argument on the assumption that people would be more willing to kill a child if it were homosexual!?! Now THAT is just SICK! Murder is murder - whether the child is born or unborn, black or white, gay or straight, mentally handicapped, blind, deaf, produced by rape or consensually - whatever - it doesn't matter. Murder is still murder - and still wrong!

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Sorry, LavLav_loves_WonWon I meant to be replying to KlawKaw

by Anonymous 14 years ago

even IF abortion was made illegal, women would still get them. just like people still do illegal drugs and drink and smoke when they're underage. the only difference is that if it was illegal, the abortions would be unsafe and could harm the mother as well.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Really? Is that your argument? So because these murderers would be harmed in the process of murder, we should let them do it safely. That does not make a lick of sense. You are failing to see that murder is wrong. You are trying to justify murder by telling me that if we legalized it, it would be safer for the murderer. That's absurd.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

you are absurd. you think that just because they want an abortion they deserve to die? thats sick. an eye for an eye? i thought you hated murder. oh but its ok if they were trying to kill an unborn child

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I'm not saying I support eye for an eye. I'm saying, should we pass out sharpened knives to murderers can kill people in a quicker, more humane way? Absolutely not! I'm saying that facilitating murder is awful, almost as awful as murder itself.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

don't you get their point? the babies are gonna die either way because people are just gonna keep doing it. we might as well allow it to be safer. just because they get an abortion does not mean that they should be harmed in the process

by Anonymous 14 years ago

based on your argument, we should legalize cocaine, because then it will be safer to get because it could be sold in stores and not by drug dealers carrying guns wanting to shoot people. Yes it is still going to happen illegally, but not nearly as much as it would when legal. Some people would be willing to take that chance of prosecution, but others would not be and would thus be deterred.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

i hate when people say that! they're entirely different cases and don't bring another argument into this that isn't necessary! i wasn't saying that i necessarily agree i was explaining what they meant because he obviously didn't get it. this is a hazy issue and i don't believe that there is one concrete answer so can we please stop arguing over it because no one is going to suddenly change their mind on this

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Well, for the record, I did understand the point. I know people are going to abort babies whether or not it is legal. I understand that there will be people that break laws. I am saying that we should NOT legalize murder on any account. This is one case where the answer is concrete. The issue is black and white. Murder is bad. If you disagree with that then I can't argue. Abortion is murder. After conception a zygote/embryo portrays all 7 characteristics (or 6 depending on the textbook) of life and therefore is alive. I can't make it any simpler than that.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

just look at the other reply i made to your comment and see when it's not black and white. if you don't understand that then i will never be able to make you. there are some circumstances where its not clear what you should do and earlier when i said that you were a hypocrite i meant that if men in washington decide it for all women then wouldn't that also be speaking for others? oh but its ok because they are sticking up for others! there are circumstances you can't even imagine. seems kind of gray to me. don't you DARE try to tell me that i don't think that murder is wrong! stop giving me the same points and stop talking to me like i'm stupid and make me feel inferior because i don't agree with you. and why are you arguing with me when there are people that don't agree at all? i mostly agree with you!

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Well, I believe abortion is murder. Can you tell me when murder is justified? If you can tell me when you would murder a person you could see face to face, that would make sense, but otherwise its wrong. LavLav, I'm saying that this is black and white because it's life and death. The baby either gets to live or the baby gets to die. The baby in this situation has NEVER done anything to deserve to die, so it should live.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

if you won't look at it! "@91956 (1johnbeliever): if you would be in pain your entire life would you want to live? if you had a disease that would cause you to suffer, then die young, with no cure, would you want to have been born? oh, yes, what a wonderful, fulfilling life that would be! if your child died like that, would you just go back to your life happy and say "oh i can just have another one. oh well!"? it would be a terrible life for both you and your child my mother wouldn't abort me because there was nothing wrong with me." abortion should be for very specific cases, but it should be available for those that qualify. would you want to live your life in pain in a hospital bed and knowing that you will die soon for the rest of your short life? i would rather have never been born

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Well, you've just touched on a completely different issue, which in my opinion is very interesting. This sorta falls under the "assisted suicide" topic. That's a whole new ball game, but in short, it's illegal in America so it's a moot point. I just want to point out that you have the option of making the decision to "rather have never been born." Do you think everyone would feel the same way? If even one would rather live, how can you assume what the baby would feel?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

we don't know how the baby would feel thats the whole point! we don't know so isn't the mother the next person to ask? i don't think that everyone would see it my way and that's why the mother should decide as the person, besides the baby, it would most affect. and since abortion is not LEGALLY considered murder at this point until 24 weeks, it would not be illegal to assist in suicide

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I, like lav lav, mostly agree with you. If my mother had been raped and couldn't cope, I would like her to have had the choice to abort me. Would you like to live with the fact you caused your mother such pain every day? That she didn't rather, couldn't love you? Then your mum falls into depression and loses her job. You can't eat now, you sleep on the path outside. And you think its all you fault. What if you were born with a disease that killed you in two years? You would never grow up, never have a childhood. You wouldn't really have an option or a life. All you would do is be in a lot of pain, and hurt your family. Or even if you lived to 10. You would then KNOW what your doing to your family. Could you do that to them? Have you seen my sisters keeper?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Can't you see the mothers as people too? So, what, they should be forced to give their life? They should be taken into consideration.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Have you noticed that everybody for abortion has already been born? Just a thought.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

But making abortion illegal doesn't stop people from GETTING them - it just stops them from getting safe ones.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

My mother was raped and ended up with me...my "father" (not the rapist) wouldnt let her get an abortion because of his religion (hes very christian.) I wouldve been happier not living. my mom wont look me in the eyes, my siblings hate me for what "I" did, everyone makes me feel responsible for what happened to my mother. Its horrible and none of you can even remotely understand what it's like to be me. If it wouldve been my mother's choice to abort me, maybe my soul, pretty much unused, would get another shot. And dont even talk about adoption, i was in a foster house for a year and they treated me like trash, I would rather been acused of something I didnt do than live through that again. So consider everything before you chose pro-life or pro-choice.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I'm sorry all that has happened to you, I really am... but I think you're a little wrapped up in your own self pity. Your post does nothing to justify abortion to me. Every single day, kids wake up and don't want to get out of bed in the morning and think to themselves, "I'd rather be dead than go to school and face the bullies" or "I'd rather be dead than deal with this paralysis." Just because they weren’t given the perfect set of legs, or perfect life, doesn't mean that their parents should have killed them upon birth, or BEFORE birth. I’m plenty sure there are many “rape children” who are happy they were given shot on this earth. I scorn you for telling them their mother should have killed them because they might not have the perfect life. I also fail to see how this provides a logical reason as to why we should kill potential lifelong friends, family members, and future successful husbands and wives.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Are you really that unsympathetic?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well, you can either mope about your unfortunate situation, or you can realize that the circumstances surrounding your birth, and over which you had no control, should not dictate the quality of the rest of your life. If you have to cut ties with people who use you as a scapegoat, then so be it. There are things you can do to make your life better. (By the way, souls aren't given to other people "gently used," unless you believe in reincarnation.)

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Cut the ties with these people? You're saying she should move out of her house, not talk to her mother, father, or siblings. Then what? Find a job? By the look of it she is just a child. That is absurd.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

This issue is so subjective. I wouldn't have a problem with abortions, given the terms that they can only be preformed up to a determined date in pregnancy and that they are only used in more extreme cases like rape. If a woman is raped by a stranger or a family member, by all means terminate the pregnancy--but at the beginning. At some point, around 8-10 weeks, the thing inside the uterus has become a fetus. It's a living thing. Eventually, it becomes more than just a woman's right to her own uterus. It becomes about another human being's right to live. My issue with abortion is the idea that some women will use it as birth control. They'll have unprotected sex and get pregnant, and then they'll use the abortion clinic as their personal birth control center. Also, there have been cases of doctors preforming abortions as late as two weeks before the due date. Personally, I think that's wrong. At that point, that baby was alive and it was murdered. This issue isn't black & white.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

this is exactly what i've been trying to say!! thank you

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Why does life begin at 8-10 weeks when it is a fetus. Upon conception, when the sperm and ovum meet all of a sudden this new creation meets all seven characteristics of life: 1. Composed of cells (that's an obvious one) 2. Has different levels of Organizations. Almost all cells fall into this category. If it has cells, it pretty much has this. Human cells have many different levels of organization and it grows more as the baby matures. 3. Uses energy. It has to make new cells somehow. That energy it gets from its mother until it is born. 4. Responds to environment. Another characteristics of all cells. I'm not going to venture the interaction between the zygote/embryo and mothers uterine wall, but that's a good example. 5. They grow. Well, if you don't know that they grow, you can stop talking now. :) (continued on next post)

by Anonymous 14 years ago

6. They reproduce. That zygote that is made when sperm and "egg" meet has the ability now (it didn't before when the two were separate) to reproduce into new cells by asexual mitotic devision. And finally, 7. They adapt to their environment. These cells create certain proteins based on the flow of what's going on in the uterus. They change according to temperature, pH, and even amount of nutrients. Based on this, I can conclude that these zygotes are baby humans at the moment of conception. Whenever you abort them, at any time, you are killing a human. It's a fact that will remain whether we make a law about it or not. The point is it's murder. Murder is wrong. This is a black and white issue.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I agree with you completely. It is killing a human being if someone waits tht long...and there should be some rules to stop women from using it as birth control. @94596 (1johnbeliever): its not a human being yet... and in no ways is this black and white issue there are hundreds of different points people can make and i believe tht some people...the ones who use abortion like birht control are murders or those who wait until the baby is nearly born. But wen its just a cell or two...thts just tht, its just a cell.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I thought that this was a free country? Where is the freedom if we can't decide what we do with our own body? And the people wanting to get an abortion don't want to be parents, and an innocent baby shouldn't be born into a family that doesn't want it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

What happened to the child's choice in this "pro-choice" of yours?

by Anonymous 13 years ago