Time-turners open up a huge hole in the plot of Harry Potter. "HOLY SHIT! Voldemort killed James and Lily!" "Guys, it's nbd, I'll just go back like twelve hours and bring them to another safehouse.", amirite?

This should be homepaged

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Other ones I considered doing for the post: "HOLY SHIT! Someone petrified Mrs. Norris! Nbd, I'll just go back an hour and see who did it." "HOLY SHIT! Someone let a troll into the castle! Nbd I'll go back and stop it," "HOLY SHIT! Someone put Harry's name in the goblet of fire! Nbd I'll just go back to last night and see who it was."

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I thought you had to get permission from the Ministry of Magic to use time-turners?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Aren't time turners supposed to be really rare, though? They might not have been able to get their hands on one. >:

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I think that Dumbledore or some other order member ould have gotten one. After all, Hermione got one when she was 13 just because she wanted to take a bunch of classes...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Maybe the benefit of voldemort being dead was enough for the others to not want to risk messing with time to save James and Lily

by Anonymous 13 years ago

True, Voldemort disappeared after that night so if they went back in time to move the Potters, he would have still been at large. Excellent point.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

But it's not just that, it could be used in so many other situations too. "HOLY SHIT! Someone petrified Mrs. Norris!" "Nbd, I'll just go back one hour and see who did it."

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I someone did that, they would most likely accidentally look into the eyes of the Basalisk and die.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

*if, not I

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Then there wouldn't be a story :p

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It's too risky, wha if the deny got a hold of one.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Enemy*

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I agree, it's a plot hole. If the Ministry is willing to license a Time-Turner out to thirteen-year-old Hogwarts students, surely they would be employed in crime cases and such by Aurors or other highly-trained wizards, but they're not. The biggest plot hole in the series is in Goblet of Fire, when it was completely unnecessary to make Harry participate in the Triwizard Tournament.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well they specify that it was a binding magical contract, but seeing as how he wasn't of age, you would think it would be void anyway.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Not what I meant. Impostor Moody could have just called Harry into his office and had him take a Portkey (a teacup, maybe) to the graveyard. There was no need to get him into the Triwizard Tournament.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Ah true, there really didn't need to be that whole drawn out process, unless Voldemort just likes to be dramatic.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It was because Voldemort was trying to get it done without letting anyone know he was at large. If Harry just vanished it would be uber suspicious, but since Cedric died in the maze and it was only a scared, seemingly confused teenager's word Voldemort was ignored.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Why was it unnecessary?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Book version: Impostor Moody tricks the Goblet of Fire into choosing Harry for the Triwizard Tournament. Moody then painstakingly guides Harry through the entire tournament, making sure he gets through the first two tasks. Then, he turns the Triwizard Cup into a Portkey and guides Harry through the maze so that he'll be taken to the graveyard and meet Voldemort. More logical version: Impostor Moody calls Harry into his office, offers him some tea, which is really a Portkey. Harry is transported to the graveyard and no one ever had to mess around with the Triwizard Tournament at all.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

having harry in the tournament was necessary because if voldemort did manage to kill him in the graveyard then it would have taken hours from everyone to find out he was missing let alone dead, but if impostor moody call harry done to his office then everyone will be like wheres harry? and also the portkey will return to the office so someone else could just take it to the graveyard

by Anonymous 13 years ago

No! The entire point of the plan was the Voldemort comes back without anyone knowing and it looks like Harry just died in the tournament. If nobody knew Voldemort was back, it would make it easier for him to take over and reveal himself once he had power/ had taken over the ministry.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Omg I am so done with this argument. If impostor Moody sent Harry to the graveyard, no one would know that Voldemort had returned. People thought that Moody was an AUROR. Little would they know that the real Moody was locked in a trunk and that a person suspected to be long dead was pretending to be Moody. There's absolutely no reason that Harry had to be sneaked into the Triwizard Tournament for Voldemort's plan to work perfectly.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Clearly you're not done with the argument, so I'll rebut. You really think Dumbledore wouldn't look into it if Harry disappeared off of the face of the Earth? If Harry disappeared, there would be a major uproar. If he died in the tournament, it would take a lot longer for everyone to catch on that it was actually Voldemort who killed him. Either way, the fact that this explanation exists is proof that the Triwizard Tournament is not a plot hole.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You haven't explained how anybody could suspect Voldemort if Harry disappeared after going to Moody's office.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Dumbledore suspected "Moody" the second he took Harry out of his sight after the maze. If something that small could make Dumbledore suspicious, I'm sure it wouldn't take long after Harry's disappearance to link it to Moody, and once Dumbledore linked it to Moody, all he would need is a basic investigation to figure out that Moody was working for Voldemort. None of this is definite, but the point is that Voldemort didn't want to risk anyone finding out that he was back. You can argue over whether or not Dumbledore would be intelligent enough to have linked Harry's disappearance to the fake Moody and then to Voldemort, but again, the fact that this reason exists to explain Voldemort's plan is proof that the Triwizard Tournament is NOT a plot hole.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Dumbledore linked (fake) Moody to Voldemort after Harry came back from the maze, revealed Voldemort had returned, and Moody took Harry away from the scene (which Dumbledore said Moody would never do). That's because the plan failed after Harry got to the maze; he escaped. That's not relevant to the discussion of whether the Triwizard tournament was necessary for the plan.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yes it is, because if that small detail was enough to reveal to Dumbledore that Moody was actually a Death Eater, it would be only a matter of time after Harry disappeared before Dumbledore figured out it was "Moody"'s doing, and from there, it would be only a matter of time before he figured out it was Voldemort. The point is that if any suspicious circumstances presented themselves, it would be very easy for Dumbledore to get to the bottom of it. Voldemort wanted to avoid any suspicious circumstances. That was Voldemort's reason; that was the reason J.K. Rowling created before she ever started writing the book. Hell, it was the reason she created before she ever started writing the series! There are a few minor plot holes in Harry Potter, but the Triwizard Tournament is not one.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

also harry could have just tried to be disqualified in every task, Fleur managed to do it. I guess his pride would get in the way.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

i agree. what would have happened if Harry just done nothing during each tack? nothing!

by Anonymous 13 years ago

yes it's not like the "magically binding" contract says you have to try, only that you have to partake

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I agree with you and this is probably just splitting hairs, but do portkeys even work indoors? I thought that they picked you up and sort of hurled you to your destination. But impostor Moody could still have gotten Harry to go outside so either way you're right.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Dumbledore made a Portkey inside the Ministry in book 5 so yes they do.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

@917559 (wobbuffet): But Portkeys don't work inside Hogwarts because of the enchantments.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Wrong. Voldemort wanted to make it seem like Harry died in the tournament so nobody would know he was back except a few of his Death Eaters, making it much easier for him to take over the ministry.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Okay, your mentioning of this plot hole bugged me, so I went back and re-read parts of the Goblet of Fire. Okay, so if fake Moody would've done like you said, then it'd be really suspicious if Harry just went missing and turned up dead. The last person Harry would've been seen with is fake Moody, so he'd be investigated. Then his entire cover would be blown and everyone would find out that he is really Crouch's son (which happened anyway, but he wouldn't know that at the time). However, the Tri-wizard Tournament was the perfect (if not, the most logical) cover. If Diggory wouldn't have taken the cup with Harry & Voldemort would've succeeded in killing Harry, then the cup would've transported Harry's dead body back and no one would suspect foul play (at least, at first), because the maze was really dangerous and there was a high change of fatality. Then fake Moody could escape, obliviate the real Moody and maybe plant a few false memories.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Plus, like someone else pointed out, Voldemort does like to invest in some intricate schemes, and with Harry dead there'd be no one to witness his "return" and he could get his strength back, without Dumbledore's interference. However, this scheme did rely a lot on chance, so it was extremely risky, but I don't think it was wholly unnecessary.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Didn't they say that you can't be seen? Or maybe that was only seen by yourselves....

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yeah, they did say that. You can't be seen by anyone, or else it'd be big trouble. Probably why they don't lend out time turners so willingly, but Hermione was a good student, and they knew she'd use it well.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

How I think it works is that they can't alter events, because in PoA they merely contributed to the events that already happened. However, if they just went back in time to witness who commited a crime or something, that would be completely possible because it wouldn't change the event. So I agree that in that case, there is a bit of a plot hole.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Someone said this above me, but basically what they mean is that the past is the past and it cannot be changed. In PoA, Buckbeak was never killed. They just thought he was. And Harry had always saved himself and Sirius. He just didn't know until he went bacl in time. You can't change anything that happens. So, if they went back in time to save James and Lily, they couldn't because the past (with them in it) would've already happened. Therefore, when they go back and experience the past that's already happened, they'll fail. However, someone else said that they could've gone back in time to figure out who petrified Mrs. Norris. That definitely could've been done, but Time Turners are issued by the Ministry, as I remember it, so it might have taken some time to get one then. And excuse any typos, please. I'm on my phone and the keyboard is really slow and delayed.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

This is some deep shit.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Actually, no, that wouldn't work. You cannot change the past. Remember, even in the third, during the present, Buckbeak had been saved, he didn't die. So, when they went back, they saved him, because they had ALREADY saved him. But, in that case, even if they were to go back in time, they'd fail at saving them. They'd still die. Because you can only change the future, not the past or present.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Then everyone would want a Time Turner to go back & save a loved one that Voldemort killed or had ordered to kill. That'd be a lot of people coming back from the dead, & messing with the past to that magnitude would mess up the future. It was easier to give Hermione one for a harmless reason, that wouldn't interfere with the future, but would allow her to get the maximum education she wanted. Plus, it's likely that former students as dedicated as Hermione used Time Turners, too, (like Percy who took twelve subjects to at least O.W.L. level.). Plus, applying for one couldn't have been easy.If everyone used Time Turners, for things like crime cases and things, they'd have to know exact times and dates, plus all that time traveling would probably strain the space time continuum. Plus, Dumbledore is a genius; he would have to have had some idea about who was behind some of the school happenings. Sometimes I think he let them go on as a test for Harry (the "greater good").

by Anonymous 13 years ago

The "Greater Good"? Sounds like you and Grindlewald would've gotten along.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I didn't mean it in that way. I just meant if you observe how Dumbledore acts, and how he does in some ways manipulate Harry it does seem like he holds onto his and Grindlewald's ideas of the greater good, just a little.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Haha I was just kidding. In all seriousness, that was a very well thought-out comment.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Everyone is referring to how the trio couldn't be seen but that was only bc they didnt want to mess with the future- in the case of lily n James potter they wld want to interfere with the future. Also they cld have gotten one from dumbledore for such an important reason or they cld have gone back to attack voldemort at birth. Lastly in the case of the twt who wld care if moody got caught if Harry died

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Why can't we put this kind of thought into a cure for cancer or something?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

This reminds me of A Very Potter Sequel. Time travel didn't really work out the best for them...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

There was a really interesting essay on the Harry Potter Lexicon about this a while ago and unfortunately I can't find the link. *grumble* Basically time turners can't bring people back from the dead, and they're really only useful for insignificant purposes and can't do very much change in events, and if someone tried the results would be disastrous.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Anyway... On the whole 'Why didn't Voldy just make 5 billion horcruxes?' Tom Riddle thought that seven was the most powerfully magical number

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Anyway... On the whole "why didn't Voldy just make 5 billion horcruxes?" he made 7 because : "Yes, sir" said Riddle "What I don't understand though-just out of curiosity-I mean, would one Horcrux be much use? Can you only split your soul once? Wouldn't it be better, make you stronger, to have your soul in more pieces, I mean, for instance isn't seven the most powerfully magical number, wouldn't seven-"

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Good point, but I must defend my favorite book :) a. NO magic can bring back the dead. b. Time turners are very rare. T *think* only Dumbledore has one, and he knows better than to save Lily and James b/c I'm sure he knows that things have a way of working themselves out. That and the prophecy.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

the ressurection stone can bring back the dead, but your still right cause it doesn't truly bring them back

by Anonymous 13 years ago