+112 I understand that some Middle Eastern countries are against the Jews having their own land, but refusing to display the region as a sovereign nation on their maps is just petty. It won't bring back palestinian homes or do anything substantial, really. Sooner or later they are going to have to face the fact that the land of the Hebrews israel, amirite?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It's not that Palestinians are against Jews having their own land, they're against living in closed off, poverty stricken and inhumane occupied territories.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

So then why don't any of their other "brethren" let them into their countries? There are plenty to spare. Probably because none of them want the "Palestinians," and love using them as an excuse to put blame on Israel and distract the Muslim world from their real problems. And yes, the Pallywoodstinians are pretty inhumane, glorifying death, murder, hatred, rage, incitement, and violence, dancing in the streets over death, over 9/11, over dead babies killed by rockets they shoot into Israel all the time. You, sir, are a fucktwat. Idiots like you sympathizing with the very people who would pass out candy and sing if your head were on a stick are what the problem is. Yes, I ranted.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Ok..so: 1. There is no room in other countries. Look at the current situation throughout the entire Middle East right now. Revolution runs rampant and countries are barely self-sufficient. Here in Lebanon there are THOUSANDS of Palestinian refugees and refugee camps. 2. All that is propaganda fed to you by the Israeli government. Palestine barely has any rockets to fire and it's hardly even safe to go through the streets much less dancing around in them cheering. And why shouldn't they? Look at their situation. No electricity, no foreign aid, no proper supplies, and live in constant fear for their lives. 3. Cheering about dead babies? Do you even know what's going on there? For every Israeli casualty there's at least 50 Palestinian deaths. Israel also has no problem with bombing schools and hospitals either. Please learn about the topic before commenting. It's people like you that are the problem, spewing propaganda and lies that are constantly being funnel...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't know why you think the Israelis have it any better. I just came back from Israel so I can tell you what I've seen. Israel might not be a third world country but people there are incredibly poor. The only reason they're not dying of starvation is because jews help eachother. Believe me there's more room for the palestinians in the surrounding countries than in tiny Israel. Besides the ones that join the Israeli society and live in normal cities and leave us alone get left alone and have way more money than the average israeli.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Well, that may be so but I guarantee you the Palestinians have it worse. Granted, so do the Israelis, but when youre on the receiving end it's obviously worse.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No offense, but everyone in the Middle East wants to help Palestine. I would go to war this instant to free Palestine. We've had corrupt governments for far too long, and THAT's the only thing that's been keeping the Palestinians from getting the help they deserve. And that's why the entire Middle East is changing right now. And there are THOUSANDS of Palestinian refugees everywhere right now! The problem isn't taking them somewhere, it's letting them keep their own country! What kind of argument is that? Every Palestinian left in what's left of Palestine is incredibly brave just for being there. They're nearly extinct. And Israel is not at all poor. Yes, you have poor people, but what do you expect? There are poor people everywhere. But you also have some of the best universities and hospitals in the world. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I actually admire the Israelis for it. But I do not admire them all for their merciless slaughter of Palestinians.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No offense but speak for yourself, and not everyone in the Middle East. How does that land belong to the Palestinians? There is not and never has been a Palestine. If you would like to go back in time, then it was originally a land that the Jews lived in, before the Romans kicked them out and renamed it "Philistine." When land was given to the Jews for a homeland by the british after world war 2, there was an option to create a palestinian state as well, but they refused. They want all the land for themselves. The surrounding lands launched the 1967 war against the new Israel and even then they were defeated. If you want to sympathize with greedy, barbaric, blood-thirsty people, then go ahead, but don't be a fool and a liar and go educate yourself.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Uh, no. And please don't call me a fool or a liar. And also, you don't speak for everyone in the Middle East either. And excuse me? There has ALWAYS been a Palestine. There were Arab tribes living in the land long before the Jews were kicked out of Egypt, and they remained there even when the Jews went to form Israel - oh, and then what happened? That's right. The Jews left! And who was left? Arab tribes. Who lived there for centuries until the Brits decided to randomly create Israel? Arabs. Get YOUR information right. You are repeating complete lies that people have been feeding to try and end a nation that has existed for years, where both Jews and Arabs lived until the Jews decided they wanted their own nation in it. And personally, the Palestinians have every right to want their own country. I don't think it's the smart thing to do, I think it's the patriotic thing to do. And who are you called barbaric and blood thirsty? As I recall, thats the Israeli army.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I said "don't be a fool and a liar." If you don't spread lies and propaganda, then you won't be. Also, I never claimed to represent the Middle East. I represent myself. You, however, said "everyone in the Middle East." Well. Thank you for being a spokesperson for "everyone." Um, excuse me, but there have been Jews living on that land going just as far back. Being kicked out and exiled is not called "leaving." Unlike when the state of Israel was created and many Arabs/Muslims left willingly because they thought that after Egypt and other surrounding nations attacked them, they could go back and claim the land. But Israel won, and so they have no right to complain. The Brits didn't decide to randomely create Israel. And, as I posted earlier, a second state was proposed too, but the Palestinians scoffed at it, just as they do now. There are no partners in any peace process, because the Palestinians don't want any compromise, OR peace. By the way,

by Anonymous 12 years ago

there are Jewish Arabs too. I do have the right information. Try to see past your bias in order to do the same. I am perfectly ok with criticizing "my" side for any wrongs, of which there are plenty, of course. I take the stance I do because I look at the facts and the evidence, and if you do so the truth is blatantly obvious. Oh really? Because it seems to me as though you are the one repeating lies and trying to end a nation. I don't recall Israel calling for the eradication of Muslims or Palestinians, but I do recall the reverse and for the call to "wipe Israel off the map," among other sickening threats. I call barbaric and blood-thirsty a people who train their children to hate and to kill (themselves and others) from a sadistically young age. Who hide pathetically among civilians, blame everyone for their problems, shoot rockets at school buses filled with children, and strive to kill and fight instead of working to make their situation better.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

1) Israel is the size of New Jersey, and you're telling me that out of ALL the Arab countries, there is no room for these "refugees?" This is so absurd that I will go on to number 2. 2) If you want to talk propaganda, look no further than the Muslim world. There is a reason I referred to Pallywood, and I did not coin the term. There are countless videos of CLEARLY fake funeral processions, ambulances in the midst of "mayhem," false injury scenarios, and more, where everything is staged. This is just one aspect of propaganda used in the Muslim world. Watch some of the TV shows in Arab/Muslim countries, about Jews killing little kids for blood to make matzah on Passover, or to steal their eyes, or go on Youtube and watch that one video of the schoolteacher applauding bravo to the 4 year old pretending to be a suicide bomber, and that's not an isolated event. Sorry, but the videos of people cheering in the streets after 9/11 and other such terrible events are real,

by Anonymous 12 years ago

You idiot. For the second time, I'm saying it's not about room. Because this isn't about emptying all the Palestinians out of Palestine, it's about trying to keep the Israelis from taking the entire country. And if Israel is the size of new Jersey, the Gaza Strip is a quarter of that. If YOU want to talk propaganda, WHY weren't the media allowed into the Gaza massacre? Why wasn't the world allowed to see the horrors and slaughtering that occurred there? Why was nobody reprimanded when Israel broke international law more than once? I don't see how you can condemn people for cheering after 9/11 but defend Israel after what they dd in Gaza. They're both equally horrible events. Lastly, don't lecture to me about TV in Arab/Muslim countries. What about TV in foreign countries? What about FOX News? The same thing happens everywhere. How many times have you seen the Muslim as the terrorist onscreen?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

You ask me not to call you a fool or a liar yet you call me an idiot. I see. Israel can't take over the entire country, because it IS the entire country. HELLO! Gaza is just a tiny part of that because that's what they gave back, which as you can see was a huge mistake. Instead of showing that they can be civilized human beings who actually do want peace, they elect a terrorist government and use the land to have an even closer shot at civilians with their rockets. Israel is reprimanded more than enough. Do you READ any of the news from the media outlets? And what government lets journalists get in their way when they're in middle of a military operation? Thank you for at least displaying your bias by comparing Gaza to 9/11 and spitting on the graves of all the people who died. 9/11 was an act of terrorism perpetrated on innocent Americans, Gaza was a RESPONDING event towards people who insist on being the aggressors time and time again and won't quit. Do you

by Anonymous 12 years ago

think that if some country sat there firing rockets at the US all day, they would be urged by the world to "show restraint?" Hell no, they'd whip their ass. Lastly, I wasn't lecturing you, I was actually posting that in response to Francois, who has conveniently made him/itself somewhat scarce. And there is a difference. Muslims aren't portrayed as terrorists, but terrorists are often depicted as Muslims. Because hello. Most often terrorists *are* of the Muslim faith. That is different than saying that all Muslims are terrorists.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Not all terrorists are Muslims. What an ignorant, racist, rude comment. only 5% of terrorist attacks were by Muslims on American soil. For someone claiming to know a lot about this topic, you sure know nothing. Furthermore, the Palestinians are not hiding behind their women and children, all they have is their women and children. And between the two, for every missile Palestine shoots at Israel, Israel shoots another 5. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8577492.stm

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I didn't say all, I said often, please learn to read. As you requested of me, back up your claim. Also, we are discussing the Middle East, not American soil. But just take a look at the world stage and current and recent events, and yes, there are a very large number of Muslim terrorists. Israel's actions are retaliatory, and their fire is return fire. Don't quote me biased BBC crap.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

find me the source that says the large number of Muslim Terrorist. I want prove, I'm not gonna believe the bullshit you spew from your mouth until you give me direct proof.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

(continued) that's not even up for dispute. "And why shouldn't they?" I can't believe I would have to explain such a thing to a person. After a recent event where an Israeli family was brutally butchered in their SLEEP on a Friday night, they were handing out candy. There is nothing sicker than that and no excuse you can come up with to explain this away. Lastly, tons of aid is sent to places like Gaza, and if they don't get it, then go and blame the corrupt "leaders" such as Hamas who don't allocate anything and don't care about their people. 3) I know exactly what's going on there, but it looks like you don't. The 50 "civilian" palestinian deaths you speak of are mostly the people who fire the rockets and are involved in the related activities. They aren't exactly wearing militant outfits, so they get labeled as civilians by the press which is gross misinformation. It might be true that there are unfortunately also some actual civilian casualties, but blame the

by Anonymous 12 years ago

You might actually be right about this. I know many people who celebrate Israeli death. I don't think that's a good thing. It's a by-product of being at war and under occupation for too long. I'm not saying everyone is like that, but I can understand why some people might be like that. That said, you have to understand the brutalities committed by the Israeli army as well. They fight under the slogan of an 'army' but they are just as cruel, twisted and unjust as ANY terrorist organization. Don't deny Palestinian death because there have been more Palestinians killed in this war than anything else. I'm not saying Palestinians have made the right choices (they've made disgusting choices, and I blame their corrupt governments as well as Israel for the loss of life) but you can't justify the deaths of children and innocent civilians.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That then is where you and I differ. You might be able to understand how people can be like that, but I CAN'T! How can anyone celebrate anyone's death? It's one thing if it is an evil person like Hitler or a dictator, but we here are talking not even about the armies, but civilians. You can understand how they hand out candy and are happy when a baby a few months old gets brutally murdered, as well as the rest of the family? I can't wrap my head around it. Though I disagree with your side, I would never celebrate the deaths of civilians anywhere, no matter what. And you can keep trying to explain things with patriotism bla bla and this and that, but the fact is that the Israeli side, the PEOPLE of Israel, or those that support it, do not ever feel happy or celebrate the death of an innocent, while the Palestinian side does. I am not speaking out of bias, just out of what I have seen. When things like this recent incident I referred to happen, it is rare to he...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

The only reason I can understand it is because I understand the suffering they have been through. I don't think its right to celebrate a baby's death, and I think only a very small minority of the Palestinians have done that (and you should bear in mind these might be people who have lost children of their own to Israeli soldiers). You're not thinking of countless Palestine children who have been lost in this war. Can you imagine the reaction if Israel had been bombed in a civilian area and a thousand Israeli women and children had been killed? You are defending the more powerful country. For a moment, try to put yourself in our position. And you condemn the Palestinians for recruiting men to help with their defense, but isn't everyone in Israel drafted in the army, men and women alike? I might be wrong about this, but I heard you could be sent to jail if you didn't comply. That seems much worse to me. At least the Palestinians fight because they want to.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I'm not saying the Israeli army is right 100% of the time either, and I don't justify any innocent death. Life on one side is not more valuable than life on the other. Unfortunately, civilian deaths happen often during fighting anywhere, but I have discussed earlier one reason why I think there are more civilian deaths than there should be on the Palestinian side (shooting rockets from schools, civilian areas), as well as that the Israeli army might cause civilian casualties while targeting militants, but don't target civilians purposely, as Palestinian militants sometimes do.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

There's a difference between war casualties and A THOUSAND civilians! A thousand people don't just die by accident! "Oh, you know, we weren't targeting them... they just died." That's not war, that's massacre! If it IS war, then why do you condemn Hamas? Why do you think Palestinians are terrorists for firing rockets into Israel? Its war, isn't it? There are casualties everywhere, you said it yourself. And again. Doing something under the banner of 'war' doesn't make it right. You keep going on and on about how brutal the Palestinians must be, and how biased I am, but have you truly thought it through from my perspective? I have the utmost respect for some Israeli people. I just have a problem with you defending slaughter while claiming not to understand how the Palestinians feel. What happens in Palestine, the occupation, and especially in Gaza is wrong. I bet you anything the Israeli government knows its wrong but they're doing it regardless. Do you?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

As I have said, you and the "BBC" may call them civilians because they are "regular civilians" shooting rockets, but they are not, and it's a misrepresentation of the facts, to put it nicely. If by "civilians" the media was referring to innocent women and children, that would be another thing. I condemn Hamas because there is a way to fight a war, and they are not a legitimate government body fighting a war, they are terrorists. Read their charter please. Also notice that when Israel fights, it is in response to attacks, they are not the instigators. The Palestinians don't fire rockets at the army in Israel, they fire them at kids and women and residents and school buses or wherever; they don't care. Yes, I do view things from all perspectives. I am arguing from my particular viewpoint because I have examined the situation and it makes sense. Believe me, I have Palestinian friends, none of this means that I can't deal with individuals on a human and personal

by Anonymous 12 years ago

level, but we are talking about the "Middle Eastern Conflict." I have a problem with *you* defending slaughter and saying you understand how they feel, while I defend people who basically just want peace, are even ok with a two-state solution, and don't murder civilians if they can avoid it.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Oh, so basically you're saying it's okay to kill a thousand people and break international law as long as it's under the title of 'self-defense' with an 'army.' Consider Hamas Palestine's army. I am in no way defending them (I don't think they've gone the right way about this at all, I think they're causing more harm than support to Palestine), but Hamas does a lot less to Israel than the Israeli army does to Palestine. You understand the Palestinians are under occupation, right? They have no freedom, no supplies, little food and water, and often no electricity. It's very easy to say "Oh, we really do want peace!" when you have the upper hand. The Palestinians don't, and they have EVERY right to fight back. In fact, the mere feat that they're managing to fire rockets at all is impressive. The Israeli army also targets civilians (a thousand of them, in fact) and the attacks on Israel are quite often minimal. There is very little damage caused in Israel, that's why

by Anonymous 12 years ago

each individual attack gets so much attention. During the attack on Gaza, I remember a whole media buzz about a dog in Israel that got killed. The people were crying and acting like it was a tragedy and the Palestinians deserved to be murdered for it. It disgusted me, mainly because hundreds and hundreds of Palestinian people and animals (dogs, cats, cattle) were being killed and yet nobody was giving a shit. Honestly, I would be all for peace if I didn't think it would be impossible for anyone to stomach Israel after the things they've done. You /think/ you're defending the people who 'want peace' but you have to realize they also want someone else's land, freedom and dignity at their expense.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

also... "don't murder civilians if they can avoid it" - lies. Nobody drops a phosphorous bomb and goes, "Oh, well, we couldn't avoid it." There were hundreds of schools and homes and markets destroyed in Gaza. Don't tell me that was unavoidable.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

scum who love shooting the rockets and fighting from heavily populated civilian areas for exactly this purpose. Israel has an army and doesn't cower behind civilians, women, and children. I know plenty about this topic, perhaps it's time that you learn something.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Perhaps it's time you learned something. Nothing has irritated me in your posts as much as your self-centered ranting about your own clearly twisted knowledge of so-called 'facts.' Perhaps if you stopped acting like you know everything and learned something for once you'd understand why everyone thinks the Israeli army is scum who loves shooting rockets instead. The Palestinians have no army. They have no weapons but their own bodies. 'Heavily populated civilian areas' would be Gaza. What happened in Gaza? Oh yes. Phosphorous bombs, schools and homes bombed, more than a thousand men, women and children killed as opposed to 13 Israelis. Is that fair? Is that war? No, that's called annihalation. Why is Isaeli life more valuable than Palestinian life? I hate to break it to you, but the way things are going right now, Israel is proving itself to be as bad as, if not worse than Hitler. And the worst part is that they have idiots like you defending their cruelty.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't think I know everything at all, although apparently, you do. Ah yes, there you go again, representing "everyone." You can tell me what you think of the Israeli army, but don't be so bloated and self-important as to assume that you speak for everyone. It is so twisted to try to explain away people using their bodies as explosive weapons, as if that's normal. When Palestinians value life more than death, and their children more than hatred, then there won't be mothers sending their babies off to die and familes celebrating them as "martyrs." There is no being fair, silly. Oh, I killed 10 of your guys, here, kill ten of mine! That is hardly annihilation, I don't quite think you understand what exactly that entails. If you can compare Hitler to Israel, you are once again displaying your A) Idiocy B) Bias C) Lack of knowledge, and did I mention idiocy?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

All right. I'm speaking for a majority of people who maintain the same opinion. Can we please get past the who's speaking for who thing you're so focused on? I'm well aware who supports Israel and who doesn't. And please, don't try to act as though dying for your country is an act of terrible evil. It's called patriotism. I would die for my country, and a lot of people have died for their country, and YES they should be seen as martyrs. And they don't send their babies off to die. Despite what you might think, the Palestinians are not savages. They're simply people who have been suffering for far too long. ...I killed 10 of your guys, kill 10 of mine? Are you aware of the death rates? In Gaza 1000 Palestinian civilians died. 13 Israeli soldiers died. Israel broke International Law, and yet nobody seemed to care. Act self-righteous all you like, but while you accuse the Palestinians of savagery, you are defending pure brutality.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No I'm sorry, I can't get past that. I am speaking here for myself, and you should speak for yourself too. I really dislike when people explain how "everyone else" thinks their way too. I might know how a majority of a segment of some specific population thinks, but I am not bringing that in here, because I am discussing this with you, not everyone. I don't think that dying for your country is terribly evil. Perhaps freedom and equality and the like are worth dying for, for your family and friends and children. I am specifically talking about people becoming suicide bombers, or using themselves as weapons, and about people hurting innocent people. That is not something to celebrate. If people die in the protests that are currently happening now, that is one thing. They are standing up for their rights, they are standing up to a regime, a government, and protesting. They are not blowing themselves and countless innocent others standing around them to prove th...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Ok let me try this again. This is not about being fair, and this is not about a number count. Israel was going in after numerous warnings to stop the rockets did nothing, and even after warning that they would be going in. This is not some sudden attack out of nowhere that you make it seem like. They flew over the area and dropped leaflets warning people what they were going to do for G-d's sake. What more do you want from them?? To sit back and take it? They have no choice! They should be protecting their citizens. The other thing I have already mentioned is that the number count was not civilians. If recruited men wear civilian clothing and end up dead, they are counted as civilians by the biased media when its all just tactics. Did real innocent civilians die? Yes, Im sure, and thats a terrible thing, and I dont think anyone is happy about that, but again, what choice do they have? I am not trying to be self-righteous at all, I just feel strongly about

by Anonymous 12 years ago

this as you do too, obviously, and will stand up to what I believe are falsehoods and propaganda because even though you keep saying how "nobody seems to care" etc., when I read or watch the media, much of what I see is not pro-Israel at all.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

See, this is what I have a problem with. You think the media is biased to the Palestinians. I think the media is severely biased to Israel. These are some of the images that occur in Palestine on a daily basis: http://img251.imageshack.us/i/41953127.jpg/ http://img535.imageshack.us/i/qqwh.jpg/ http://img153.imageshack.us/i/38566663.jpg/ Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? Nothing you can say will excuse this for us. From my point of you, this is being done to the people who have the right to the country, who have the right to defend themselves against outsiders, who are pulling together whatever resources they can to make homemade rockets against military weapons, and this is what Israel does under the banner of 'legal self-defense.' What Israel does isn't legal. It's not even self-defense. If this were to happen to America, the UK or France, do you think the reaction would be the same? The media actually downplays it all.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Will respond more later, I have not had much time this week.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Help from their brethren? Have you seen the state of The middle east? corrupted governments, and revolts happening left and right, they have their own problems. And the people dancing in the streets after 9/11? show me direct proof, give me direct proof for ANY of the occurrences that were mentions. don't just spew bullshit. Last year, when they were sending the boat to Gaza filled with mercenaries, noble peace prize winners and other respectable people, the Israels bombed the ship, many were injured and a few died. http://gazasiege.org/news.php http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html This is just the stuff that is got documented. The sad thing is the Israelis (some not all) are justifying the slaughtering of children and women because they were oppressed during the holocaust. (other groups oppressed include, gays, communists, and socialists) http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't have time at the moment to address everything in your post, but here is a link regarding people dancing on 9/11. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.asp

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Took me a while to get it since I thought it was serious, and a typo, but after I got it I laughed in my head.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Explain.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

"The land of the Hebrews Israel" >> The Land of the Hebrews is real

by Anonymous 12 years ago

What the hell? Personally, I don't dismiss as Israel as a state, and I have no problem with them being a state either. But, what they are doing to the Palestinians is HORRIBLE. The fact that these Palestinians, get their electricity cut off 8-12 hours each day (hospitals included), they are not allowed glass, timber, or steel to be imported in to rebuild from the remains of their houses is inhumane and disgusting. Yet nobody gives a fuck because Israel is powerful.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

What Israel does is war. What the Palestinians do is terrorism. I for one hate the Israeli government but if you're going to compare them with the Palestinians it's pretty obvious who's wrong. The Israelis are fighting for peace and the Palestinians are fighting because they want their way. Come visit Israel you'll see the world's view of things is twisted. They shop in our stores, and use our busses. They are not treated any worse until they start up. Are we supposed to just sit there and take it? The reason there are more Palestinian casualties is because Israel is more powerful, not because they fight more.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Why is such a high percentage of these casualties citizens?what more, why is there casualties of children, I'm assuming the children had it coming for them, damn those children! The divide of land used to be 55% for Israel, and 45% Palestine, Palestinians currently only owns 11% of the land. They are FORCED to use your shops, and buses when the Israeli government won't let them have anything. watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4 Enough is enough,Israeli need to stop playing the victims, you have immense power, and a major part of the economy, do not victimize yourselves. What is the worst Palestinians can do? hit you with stones? That'll really achieve something.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

They do have their own stores and even their own buses. I don't know where you get your information from but visit the place if you really believe what you're saying. The rocks that you're talking about get thrown at every available opportunity. Some a**hole through a massive rock at a bus I was on that was in undisputably Israeli territory. We had to wait on the side of the highway for another bus to come take over. In America if someone would have done something like that he would've been found and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. In Israel it was treated as a daily occurence. I want you to tell me what that man thought he was accomplishing. All of these small events add up so that even when the media is reporting no violence from the Palestinians the Israelis are still being terrorized. The Israeli government is just trying to protect the land that was rightfully given to them and the people inside it. Whether you personally think it's fair or not th...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Seriously. SERIOUSLY. You got a rock thrown at your bus. The horror. You had to wait for another bus. Dreadful. Yeah, in America that would be a big deal, but in many other places (especially places supposedly at war) that is NOTHING. I've had worse and I don't live in a country at war. That is not 'being terrorized.' To be honest, most of the people I know would throw a rock at an Israeli bus. It's not pretty, but its true. THAT is absolutely no reason to bomb a thousand people. Perhaps you should live in Palestine for a while before forming a comparison. Because it's not rocks getting thrown at you, it's missiles.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

If this is war, then why do you consider the Israeli army legitimate but Palestinian defense terrorism? Just because they haven't got the resources to form an army doesn't make their defense any less legit. If what Palestine does is terrorism, then the Israeli army is entirely formed of terrorists. "Are we supposed to sit there and take it?" Yes, yes you are. That's what you get when you take somebody's land. That's what you get when you force people out of their homes and destroy the land they have cultiviated for years for your own selfish reasons. And there's really nothing to take, when 100 Palestinians die for each Israeli that gets a papercut. Lastly, if the Israelis were truly good people, they would rise against their corrupt government. Everybody else in the Middle East is showing their worth right now. Why don't the Israelis stand up and say they won't kill innocent people anymore? Right now, all I see are people looking out for their own good.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Ok we are on opposite sides of a war and thanks to the internet we get to communicate like civilized human beings so lets try and continue to keep this civilized. Firstly, I don't think the Israeli government is corrupt. I hate them because I hate alot of the decisions they make but I don't necessarily think anyone would do any better. I don't like the idea of a jewish state. Over the years jews have always been persecuted so it's a given that a jewish state is going to be persecuted. I don't however think the land should go to the palestinians. It DID NOT belong to them when it was given to the jews. It was run by the british at that point. Over the centuries many people have had power over israel and no one group has more of a right to it than anyone else.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yeah, fair enough. I don't mind civilized conversation. And here's the thing. I agree Jews have been persecuted over time. I didn't say the Israeli government was politically corrupt, if the people know what it's doing, but I do think breaking international laws and ignoring basic human rights is rather morally corrupt. And the British did NOT own Palestine at that point, either. It was 'supervised' by them but it was neither occupied nor legally theirs. They gave away something they did not own and the Palestinians (who have lived there for centuries) had no say in the matter simply because their vote was not recognized in the UN and everyone else overturned it. That's politically legitimate, but completely unfair. You cannot possibly blame the people for objecting to this. And no. Arabs have lived in Palestine long before the Jews went there. The first Jews were Arab. This isn't a matter of religion; its a matter of politics.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

When the state of Israel was formed as an official jewish country a very large percentage of its residents were jews. I don't know the exact numbers so I can't quote them. You are right that the British didn't occupy the land but they did run it and its governments. The decision was made through a vote with all the largest nations at the time. It's not like some guy just decided it. The population of what was then Palestine was made up of mainly jews and muslims. The jews had nowhere to go. The muslims had no more of a right to the land then the jews. The jews had a wonderful oppurtunity to rebuild the lives of the few of them that were left. They didn't ask for it and they didn't force anyone out of the land. If any muslims were opposed they had where to go. The jews didn't. What the hell were we supposed to do? Say no thank you? Israel gave us the opportunity to come back from the dead and it is within our rights to protect that.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I agree with you on several points. However, the decision that was made through a vote concerned countries who (no offense, I would think this offensive in general but I suppose its true) just wanted to get all the Jewish refugees out of their own countries. The country in question itself (Palestine) and its citizens had no say in the matter, simply because their vote wasn't recognized by the UN. That seems very unjust. Why would you have the right to give away something you don't own? And secondly, the Arabs (please don't make this a Muslim/Jews matter. Its a political matter) not the Muslims, had more of a right to the land than the Jews considering they had lived there for centuries. The Jews could have just remained living there peacefully without calling it their own state. But from an Arab perspective (and by Arab I mean Christian, Muslims AND Jews who had called Palestine home)

by Anonymous 12 years ago

it's as though somebody who had no business in the matter came along, decided to make a nation where it was widely known that there was a dispute among their people (i mean, putting Israel in the Middle East? Clearly a political thing). If the British wanted the Jews to have their own land so badly, why didn't they give them a part of Britain? Moreover, Israel hasn't just taken over Palestine. They slowly eradicated parts of it and the Palestine people. I would personally have no problem with them if they'd been a peaceful people. But the Israeli army has proven its cruelty time and time again. Homes and farms that people have tended to for centuries have been uprooted and demolished. The Palestinians are living in dire poverty, women and children, and for what fault? Being Palestinian? Being Muslim? Again, I think if the Israelis want to prove their worth they would protect Palestine, not destroy it.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It's a political move to put Israel in the Middle East? Please tell me you're joking. In that case, I suppose it's perfectly normal to offer the Palestinians their own large chunk of land somewhere in Tasmania. With regard to homes/farms/tended land being destroyed, look at what the Palestinians have done to any land that has been given to them. The first thing they do is burn down and destroy any buildings left, and turn the whole place into a rubble crapland. Some of the Israeli land given back was beautiful and able to be used to grow food and let the people be self-reliant, but instead they destroyed all of the equipment and buildings and everything. You are telling me they just want to be fed and happy? Israel rebuilds and improved land while they destroy it. Look at Israel now, and what it was before it became Israel: a barren desert.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Of course it was a political move. Clearly you understand nothing about Middle East politics. Israel, like you said, is smaller than New Jersey, but it had all the Arab countries under its thumb thanks to American support. Things are changing now, obviously, but for some time Israel had quite a bit of political strength. And excuse me? "Look what the Palestinians have done to any land that has been given to them" - it was their land in the first place, and it was a beautiful, cultivated land. You don't seem to realize that the Palestinians owned Palestine for centuries. And no. Did you see HOW Israel takes the land? They bulldoze over houses, with the occupants inside (Rachel Corrie was killed in such an incident. You might remember that) and then once the land is reduced to rubble and everyone in it is killed or driven out, THEN they rebuild it. Of course Israel is lovely and pretty, but the cost of that was Palestinian blood.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

My point was that Jewish people want Israel, a land that has meaning and ties for them, not some plot of land in Africa. With or without politics or agendas. How is it Palestinian land in the first place exactly? As I have said, Jews go back centuries and centuries, before the land was even named Philistina. There has never been any country called Palestine. I'm not sure if you realize that. That is not the truth of it so please don't try to fabricate things. There have been instances of bulldozing, and if someone dies that way, that is absolutely not right. I never said either side is always right. And governments are terrible and corrupt anywhere, and I don't support everything they do.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I understand that it's not supposed to be a religious thing but it actually is. The jews in the region made up a reasonable percentage of the population. They had also been there for centuries. The land at the time belonged to them just as much as the rest of the arabs. I say israelis and muslims not to turn it into a religious debate just to keep it clear because if I say arabs than we won't know who I'm talking about. The christians aren't in this debate at all because they get along extremely well with the israeli government. There was actually talk of giving the jews Ethiopia but it ended up being Israel. When a country is ruling another country they have full rights to that country including the right to give over the power to some of the residents of said country. Israel isn't destroying palestine because palestine does not exist anymore. They are just trying to protect their people.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Protect their people from what, though? How can you compare Israeli death rates and Palestinian death rates? You don't perform self-defense by annihalating your competitors, ignoring human rights and international law, and it certainly isn't the Palestinian children who are threatening Israel. Why is Israeli life more valuable than Palestinian life? Because, again, this is political. This isn't about self-defense in the slightest. And YOU just said the land belonged to them as much as the rest of the Arabs. So why do they get it? Why don't the Arabs get it? After all, they'd had it for a very long time and everyone was living in it quite peacefully.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

You're not actually hearing what I'm saying. The land never belonged to any of those currently living there. There's no debate about who deserved it more because that's not applicable. The jews living there were given this opportunity to save what was left of the rest of the jews in the world. If anyone else living there had any objections there were places they could've moved to. Nobody kicked them out. The problems started when the Palestinians got upset about the situation and started fighting. At this point in time both sides are victims, but from the beginning and still time and time again the Palestinians are the instigators. Sorry that they are getting hurt out of it too but like I said the Israelis are acting in self defense. They fight back. That's their right. Meanwhile cute little Israeli babies get murdered in their sleep and they bomb my bus and the world barely notices. There are fewer Israeli casualties is because the Israelis are hard to kill....

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No, hang on a second there. This is what I despise. Murderers acting like victims. Don't tell me about cute little Israeli babies getting killed because there are THOUSANDS of cute little Palestinian children getting killed. Again, this brings me back to my point. You are continuing your argument on the basis that Israeli life is more valuable than Palestinian life. For some reason, you are trying to justify the murder of a thousand civilians because it was 'self-defense.' If what Israel does to Palestine is self-defense because it's a war, then why is Hamas considered a terrorist organization? What they're doing should be considered self-defense as well, particularly since they have limited resources. And don't say it's because "Hamas bombs buses" because Israel has bombed civilian cities as well. Is a busful of Israeli citizens more important than a houseful of Palestinian citizens?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Again you're not hearing what I'm saying. No human being can say whose life is more valuable so that's not at all what I'm trying to say. What makes Israel's fight self-defense is that when they are being left alone they don't fight. They only attack when they are being attacked. It's horrible when any babies die but the Israeli army has been known to try and stay away from areas with young children and the Palestinians took advantage of that, that's why Palestinian children have gotten hurt. That doesn't justify it at all but there has never been a single story of an Israeli infiltrating a palestinian settlement and stabbing kids in their sleep. The palestinians are called palestinians because they are the only ones left from Palestine that have not yet found themselves a country that still exists. Most of todays Israelis originate from people who were Palestinian when Palestine still existed.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

"The land never belonged to any of those currently living there. There's no debate about who deserved it more because that's not applicable. The jews living there were given this opportunity to save what was left of the rest of the jews in the world. If anyone else living there had any objections there were places they could've moved to." How can you say that? The land was called Palestine. The people there were Palestinians. Obviously, they had some connection to it. What you're saying right now borders on selfish. The Jews basically came and said, "All right, we're taking this land, and if you don't like it you can pack up and leave your heritage, history and homes." OBVIOUSLY the Arabs would object to that. Whoever made this move on the assumption that the Arab countries would take it (and this would have been called patriotism had anybody else done it, but since the Arabs did it its obviously terrorism) is ridiculous.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Just to go back to something you said a little while ago; Israel might be a very advanced country and as a country they do okay but a huge percentage of people over there live in extreme poverty. I lived there for a bit and being that I speak both Hebrew and English fluently in addition to certain skills I have, I had a job that paid almost double the average person there makes. I lived in a one room apartment with bad insulation with another girl and had some weeks that I couldn't afford food. The reason Israel does well as a country even though its residents are so poor is because of all the tourists and the rich americans that live there.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

...how is this relevant? Israel is still doing well as a country. Palestine, on the other hand, is hardly even a country any more, and those who aren't living in dire poverty live in consistent fear every day, with their electricity and water supply often cut off for hours at a time. Look, I would have nothing against Israel if the entire country's basis was not based on the eradication of Palestine and the deaths of its children. There is just no reason to excuse a thousand murders, and you shouldn't try. Palestinians have made mistakes, but there is no mistake that should get a thousand people killed, and nobody punished for it. In fact, you're defending it. That just seems a little inhumane, and then us Arabs get called barbaric because we're willing to fight for our countries.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't know what deaths you're talking about but whatever it is America's done way more without anyone blinking an eye without nearly as good a reason. When people die in such situations it's tragic but it's called war not murder. The things the palestinians do are for the sake of terrorism and murder. This is not my personal opinion. It's hard for me to be defending the Israeli army because I really hate it when they kill but it's not like the palestinians are giving them a choice. They can either sit back and take it or fight back. But the Israelis have only ever fought in self-defense. The rock thrown at my bus was a very small example I gave you. There are hundreds of such incidents going on every single day. They have devoted their lives to making our lives miserable. I have never met a palestinian that even tried to defend what they do. They either curse me out like a crazy person or they try and avoid the fact that that's who they are. They don't thin...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I'm talking about the deaths that occur on a regular basis in Palestine. I have some really terrible pictures of things that go on in Palestine. If you could see these things, you would really take a moment and wonder why you were complaining about a rock thrown at a bus. And I really like how you're saying this is a war, and yet your side is considered 'self-defense' but the other side is considered 'terrorism.' If its a war then shouldn't both sides be equally at war? And once again, I must remind you of the death statistics. A rate of 1000 to 13 is not self-defense. A phosphorous bomb thrown at children is not how you defend yourself against rocks. And you wonder why the Arabs are angry? You think I'm biased, and yet you're saying war isn't murder, but trying to get back a country that was once yours is. And obviously, you haven't met a great many Palestinians, and the ones you met are not educated. Consider me Palestinian, then. I'm defending it.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't consider this having met you so this doesn't count. I'm trying to debate something while typing on a tiny phone which is very difficult. That's why I feel you are misunderstanding almost every word I'm saying. I am not complaining about rocks being thrown at buses. I'm complaining that it's become something so normal that people don't even bring it up. If the palestinians are really living in such fear they wouldn't have nearly as much chutzpah as they do. They walk up to the 'yasam' cops, the most hardcore, curse at them and spit at their feet. They're obviously not that scared. If I would do something like that I would be sitting in prison but with them they put up with it for the sake of peace. The israelis have compromised a lot. The reason people are dying on both sides is because the palestinians don't know when to stop. If we can all go back in time and prevent Israel from happening there are many people like me that would. But it's too late fo...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It is completely irrational to expect a nation to give up their home just because you think you deserve it more. The reason for the lack of peace is not because of the israelis. It's the palestinians that are willing to sacrifice the lives of their own babies just so some israei babies will die too. Do you know what happened in Gush Katif, and before that Yaamit? Do you know how many innocent lives were ruined just because the Israelis were trying to give you guys what you want? Do you know why I hate the Israeli government? Do you know what yehudi lo megaresh yehudi means? We hate the government for giving more and more land to people who refuse to compromise. The israeli government has done so much and let go of so much for the sake of peace and you keep bombing us and then you go crying that your people are dying. The reason there's no peace is because you keep crying for something that never was or will be yours but instead of being logical about trying t...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

But why would you even expect the Palestinian people to settle? I don't agree with them on many decisions they've made. But I still think you're misunderstanding what /I'm/ saying. You're so focused on the compromises the Israelis have made. Oh, so the government is trying to keep the peace (what peace? There's hardly any peace.) And again, I've told you - getting rocks thrown at buses SHOULD be considered commonplace. Do you know what is considered commonplace in Palestine? Losing your family at a moment's notice. No electricity, no water. No supplies. Do you wonder why they hate you? Do you wonder why they spit at your cops? You're condemning them for having bravery? I applaud them for it. I think you just truly don't understand the extent of their hatred for Israel. You said it yourself. You would go back and stop Israel from being put there. It was never their fault. I don't always agree with Palestinian authorities, but I agree with the civilians.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

And what more do you want your government to do? You do realize you've basically just suggested that your government annihilate the lot of them, and why? Because your Israel isn't perfectly safe. They've already taken everything from the Palestinians. What you're saying is, "Well, a couple of people have been killed, and there are rocks being thrown at buses ALL THE TIME, so just kill them all already!" Their refusal to compromise may not be wise, but it shows bravery and it shows loyalty. The fact that you're refusing to even acknowledge that shows how biased you are. The difference between you and me right now is that I admire the Palestinians for fighting back, and you despise them for it, even though you want Israel to do far, far worse. And I like the fact that they have chutzpah, even though you seem to expect them to bow down to you like obedient dogs. I like that no matter what Israel puts Palestine through, at least they'll go down fighting

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Families A and B live together in a small house owned by a third party, the landlord. The have a relatively peaceful existance and everyone gets along fine. Family A has lots of family in the neighborhood and that makes this a great location for them. One day, Family B finds out that their entire extended family has been evicted from their homes. The landlord, realizing that Family B now needs this small house more than he does, decides to give the house to Family B. He knows that Family A has lots of family in the neighborhood so he figures they'll be alright. Family B invites their family into their newly acquired home and sets aside a small part of the house for Family A to stay in. Family A is still trying to take over the house 65 years later. You tell me what's wrong with this story.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

In this war the two sides are after two different things. The palestinians want what they believe to be theirs and we believe to be ours. The israelis fight to protect their people. The palestinians are trying to get something, the israelis are trying to not get hurt. The reason there's a higher death rate among palestinians is because they don't care whether they live or die. They just want to win. The israelis put the safety of their people above all else. The Palestinians make winning more land their priority. If they don't want to die they don't have to. It disgusts me that you can attack someone and then complain about how hard they fight back. If you're willing to attack you have to be willing to take what comes back and not whine about how they're being cruel. Attacking when you're being attacked doesn't break any rules.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Okay, that's how /I/ see it. Family A and Family B are living together. Most of family A moves out. For a very long time, Family B and what's left of family A stay together regardless, and after hundreds of years family A suddenly decides it wants the rest of its family and countless others back. And then Family B is suddenly faced with lots of people pouring into their home, and suddenly a landlord comes out of nowhere, who does not actually own this house and has never had any rights to it before this moment, and decides Family A can own most of it too. In fact, Family A will just own it all and Family B will have to suck it up. Eventually most of Family B is kicked out and whoever is left lives in dire poverty where Family A just kills them if they object. And you're saying the Palestinians shouldn't whine about being cruel. Well, you shouldn't whine about them fighting back, then. To them, this is their land they're fighting for.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

"Attacking when you're being attacked doesn't break any rules." It does, actually. Particularly when you break international law doing it. For the fiftieth time - the Israeli people aren't fighting to protect their people. You keep complaining how the government is giving more and more land to the Palestinians, and yet the area within Palestine keeps shrinking. Most people don't even know Palestine anymore. Israel is trying to make people think Jerusalem is their capital. Quite frankly, after what Israel has done to Palestine, how could you not expect there to be hatred? I can't believe I'm saying this, but your cool defense of so-called 'fighting to protect my people' makes ME want to hurl a rock at you, regardless of consequences. The truth is, you don't think of the Palestinians and their living conditions at all, and that sickens me.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

This is rediculous. I appreciate you staying civilized all this time. We are both convinced that the other is speaking utter nonsense. If I would meet you out in the real world I would never dream of having such a conversation with you. We are both way too involved. If you would like to continue we can because I have plenty more to say, but I'd rather we just agree to let this go here. We are not debating to find the truth because we both know the truth. How it's possible for two people to believe opposite truths with such certainty is a mystery to me but we would be fools to continue this. Agree?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yeah, I suppose I'll agree to disagree here. I appreciate you staying civilized as well, you've actually given me an extremely helpful insight to your point of view, so thank you.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yeah, because what they've done to Israelites is so humane (sarcasm)

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Hopefully this September Israel will learn to share.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That's silly. Israel and is real are pronounced differently. Why is everyone here supporting Palestine? I don't know that much about what's going on there, but I've heard that Palestine is trying to take the land that belongs to Israel. My sister lives in Israel and according to her, Israel is usually second to fire rockets, as a retaliation for innocent Israelis being killed by Palestinian rockets. Did you know that a British tourist was bombed at a bus station in Jerusalem? Or that Palestinians broke into the home of a random Israeli family and murdered the parents, the 11 year old boy, the four year old boy and the 3 month old baby girl? How is that not ''HORRIBLE, inhumane or disgusting?''

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Did you also know that the Israels bombed many hospitals? Did you know they stopped the importing of medicine, and building materials? Did you know the Palestinian's electricity gets cut off for 8-12 hours daily?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Are you also aware that Israel's land is originally that of the Palestinians, and it was taken from them entirely unfairly? Are you aware that Israel has broken international law more than once in its massacre of Palestinians, men, woman and children included? Are you aware that they are bit by bit taking what was once a peaceful land where Jews and Muslims lived side by side and turning it into an entirely Jewish land where Palestinians are no longer welcome inside their own country? Are you aware that Israel has one of the most powerful armies in the world but Palestine has none?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That doesn't mean that they can't hurt Israelis. Just look at the town of Sderot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sderot). They've had thousands of rockets fired at them over the years from the Gaza Strip, causing a ton of damage. I'm not saying that Israel hasn't done anything bad, but it's not like all the injustices are one sided.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

(Your+name+(optional)): I'm not saying it's one-sided, but if you're comparing the damages done to each side, they might as well be.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

At first I wasn't going to read this becuase it was too long, but then I saw it was from "TYPO!" and decided to read it. =)

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I see what you did there. hehe

by Anonymous 12 years ago