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Tax cuts for the rich have been going on for years and got us into this recession in the first place. We need to tax the wealthiest Americans - especially those that outsource American jobs - and help small businesses grow American jobs and give tax cuts to Americans who actually need to spend it to get by, especially when they buy American made products, amirite?

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I don't think the government should make the tax for thewealthiest Americans significantly higher, because a lot of them have worked hard to get where they are, and taxing them to help out people who aren't working hard seems unfair. The government should add incentives to keeping your business/franchise in America instead.

@Kaitlyn I don't think the government should make the tax for thewealthiest Americans significantly higher, because a lot of...

It isn't significantly higher, it's marginally higher. It isn't because people think they didn't work hard, it's because they can easily afford it without really hurting them at all.

@Kaitlyn I don't think the government should make the tax for thewealthiest Americans significantly higher, because a lot of...

"it's important to note that for the rich, most of that income does not come from 'working' " http://bit.ly/vu5RQU
I'm just saying the tax breaks Bush gave them don't seem to be helping the economy, since the recession has been getting worse the entire time they've been getting those breaks.
I'm living from paycheck to paycheck and if you give me a tax break, guess where it's going. Back into the economy. Not into Wall Street (I won't get started on that) or into some foreign made car or a luxury jet. Back into local businesses.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +1Reply
@sflesch "it's important to note that for the rich, most of that income does not come from 'working' "...

Besides inheriting money, winning the lottery, and crime they only way to get super rich is to make something so valuable that people will pay millions of dollars for it.
People who live paycheck to paycheck don't pay many taxes anyway, which is perfectly understandable. However, they'll spend their money on food not on buying stock in American companies. Buying food might be helpful but maybe not as helpful as buying 3 million dollars worth of stock.
I agree there are a bunch of jerks on Wall Street who shouldn't be there. But, as a concept, the stock market is great for our economy.
Also, if people stopped buying luxury items like jets and cars, the economy would shrivel up and die.
Instead of looking at whats good for rich people and whats good for poor people, we should look at whats good for the economy because a good economy is good for everyone.

where the hell is robin hood when you need him...

The recession was not caused by giving rich people tax breaks, it was caused by multiple things; one of the biggest being people not spending money. You see, when the majority of people are saving money rather then putting it back into businesses, these businesses suffer and must close. When businesses close, people lose their jobs and then have no money to spend. It's a big cycle. We spend money, it goes into businesses and these businesses thrive and provide more jobs so more people can make money.

Taxing the rich more (which if you look up federal tax rates, you'll see that high incomes are already being taxed more than low incomes) only does one thing, and that's give the government more money to throw away on stupid crap. Rather than tax rich people, we should stop pointless government spending. The way I see it, taxing rich people only takes away money they could invest into businesses which would provide jobs.

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@1552131

That was a small part too, but don't the banks hold some responsibility for extending credit to those they shouldn't have to begin with. Looking back, I was stretched beyond my limits, but credit card companies and banks were still more than willing to extend credit to me.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +1Reply
@sflesch That was a small part too, but don't the banks hold some responsibility for extending credit to those they...

That's how credit cards work. Completely paying them off at the end of each month builds great credit, but the companies want you to have an end balance each month so they can charge interest. Basically, if you don't have the money the time you want to buy something, you shouldn't buy it.

@StickCaveman That's how credit cards work. Completely paying them off at the end of each month builds great credit, but the...

I've learned my lesson and am paying for it. Unfortunately credit card companies and banks still should not be able to extend credit to people beyond a reasonable ability to pay. I hope to never be in that position again, but I wish I wasn't allowed to get to that place to begin with.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +1Reply
@StickCaveman The recession was not caused by giving rich people tax breaks, it was caused by multiple things; one of the biggest...

Government spending is a small part of the issue, but when CEOs are making their money in the lets cut jobs so I can make a bonus cycle, that hurts the economy. In addition to taxing the rich (short term) higher, we need to encourage them to create long-term American jobs. Then consider tax cuts again maybe.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are 0Reply
@sflesch Government spending is a small part of the issue, but when CEOs are making their money in the lets cut jobs so I...

I actually don't have a problem with CEOs making tons of money. If someone runs a company that works well enough to make that much money, why shouldn't they make a ton of money? If the CEO makes choices that are bad for the company, the CEO will fail right along with his/her company.

@StickCaveman The recession was not caused by giving rich people tax breaks, it was caused by multiple things; one of the biggest...

it's funny how probably half of the people here have never even taken an economics class and still think they know better than the experts out there. not to pick on stickcaveman, but what you are saying nullifies itself: you want to cut taxes so people spend more money and so government stops spending money. believe it or not, whether its people or the feds spending the money doesn't make much difference economy-wise as long as spending is going on.

Anonymous 0Reply
@it's funny how probably half of the people here have never even taken an economics class and still think they know...

The reason the citizens have more of a right to spend the money than the government is because the citizens are the ones who earned that money. And another problem about government spending is that the government spends money on things that a lot of citizens don't agree upon. Of course we could get into a big debate about how citizens elect a representative to make the decisions for them, but that's no excuse for the way our government is spending our money.

Was the economics class comment directed towards me?

@it's funny how probably half of the people here have never even taken an economics class and still think they know...

I'd rather take away wasteful government spending and give it to the citizens to spend - wasteful or not.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are 0Reply
@it's funny how probably half of the people here have never even taken an economics class and still think they know...

Oh and I did take both micro and macro economics and did well as I recall. The teacher didn't however preach that trickle down worked or didn't work. It was a balanced class.
As far as experts, which ones do you listen to? The ones supported by the GOP or the Dems?

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are 0Reply

someone shouldnt be punished cause they worked hard to be successfull

yupperss avatar yuppers No Way +10Reply
@yuppers someone shouldnt be punished cause they worked hard to be successfull

What if their work is laying people off? I've seen company after company moving jobs overseas and the CEOs collect bonuses for saving money. I think we need to start making companies pay penalties for moving those jobs overseas and collect tarriffs on products that are made over seas and apply them to American companies making the same products. That should even the playing field a little.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +5Reply
@yuppers someone shouldnt be punished cause they worked hard to be successfull

I don't think it is a punishment. Of course the wealthy pay tons of taxes, but with the breaks and loopholes they are not paying at the same rate, plus the money they get from their investments and sticks are not taxed. Warren Buffet, one of the richest men in the country admits that his secretary gets taxed at a higher rate than he does. plus, raising taxes on the rich will raise revenue than the outdated trickle-down economics which actually led to the Great Depression after the Gilded Age. A rise in taxes will barely affect the wealthiest one percent who own forty percent of the wealth and only eight percent of the debt.

_Jojo_s avatar _Jojo_ Yeah You Are +3Reply

The wealthy already do get taxed more, they don't deserve to have the money they earned taken away from them just cause they're more well off then others.

Handsys avatar Handsy No Way +8Reply
@Handsy The wealthy already do get taxed more, they don't deserve to have the money they earned taken away from them just...

It depends on how wealthy you are. In my opinion, if I was earning 1 million or higher per year, I wouldn't mind paying more taxes, as long as it was taking less than or equal to 500,000. That's just my opinion though. I'm not in this situation, so my opinion may change if i end up in it.

mchalla3s avatar mchalla3 Yeah You Are +4Reply
@mchalla3 It depends on how wealthy you are. In my opinion, if I was earning 1 million or higher per year, I wouldn't mind...

Even in the position I'm in, I'm willing to sacrifice a little so those struggling worse than I am can get the help they need, so yeah, they can take the hit, but the important part is to make sure the taxes help create decent jobs.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +1Reply

how did tax cuts get us into the recession

Anonymous +4Reply
@how did tax cuts get us into the recession

Because when you cut taxes then enter a war you go broke.

@how did tax cuts get us into the recession

The wealthy have been getting tax cuts for some time now, yet it hasn't helped the economy. I can only speak from experience, but as a middle-class person who is currently struggling, I know every penny I get goes back into the economy. Can the wealthiest Americans say that?

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +3Reply

Loop holes do need to be closed too. Why should GE pay absolutely no taxes, when they make billions in profits?
How long should a recession last without the wealthy spending before we start to realize it isn't working? I'm for tax breaks, but only if they provide decent (not McD's minimum wage) American jobs. While CEOs collect bonuses, they collect them for foreclosing on people's mortgages, cutting the jobs of actual workers, moving jobs to China and increasing pricing and decreasing competition. Businesses are too large which allows them to plow over the warkers and the customers.
These are all factors which allow them to maintain their wealth while the rest of us are finding it harder to keep our jobs and maintain a decent livelihood.
I'm not for making everything equal for everyone, but I think everyone should have a fair shake at a decent living, especially education.

" it's important to note that for the rich, most of that income does not come from 'working'" http://bit.ly/vu5RQU

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +4Reply

If we got out of stupid wars in the Middle East and cut the military budget by a few trillion, we would have enough money to give everyone a tax break and go to the moon and back a few times. I don't blame rich people for America's problems; I blames stupid people who vote for war-loving idiots.

@fEMMAnist If we got out of stupid wars in the Middle East and cut the military budget by a few trillion, we would have enough...

We should NOT have gotten into the Iraq war. WMDs did not exist and they were not involved with 9/11. However once engaged in either war, pulling out likely would have been far worse for the people of the countries and possibly us as they would likely become good hostile anti-American breeding grounds.
I think we should ask Iraq to help us pay for the war by allowing us to buy deeply discounted oil from them and Afghanistan some of the minerals http://j.mp/tSeCSD that the US found.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are 0Reply

Right, because when people need someone to blame the economy for, they always turn to the people that are producing the most wealth for the nation.

There are two types of rich people: those that inherited their money and those that earned their money. Those that earned their money worked their asses off and don't deserve to given higher taxes than everyone else. Both types have every right to outsource jobs to foreign nations. Guess why? It's a good business plan. It makes no sense to pay an American ten times as much for something a Chinese man could easily do. Besides, the majority of outsourced jobs are in areas such as tech support and manual labor. If you gave any effort to progressing during your time in education facilities, you wouldn't have one of those careers (unless you're still in school).

Small businesses don't earn as much money as large ones. So why should the US government favor them over large businesses? You can argue that they bring jobs to Americans, but that isn't everything...

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@1552143

Well, companies that outsource are international businesses. The US government can't enforce that they don't outsource. Imposing larger taxes on the rich simply encourages them to outsource. If they are being financially damaged by raised taxes, that normally forces them to make budget cuts. A common budget cut for a company is outsourcing jobs to foreign nations.

@YeahIAm Well, companies that outsource are international businesses. The US government can't enforce that they don't...

But the government can provide tax penalties for outsourcing jobs, especially if it increase the companies profits. They can also provide tax incentives for keeping jobs here and tax incoming goods and distribute those taxes to American companies.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +1Reply
@sflesch But the government can provide tax penalties for outsourcing jobs, especially if it increase the companies profits...

Well, most international companies aren't even American-based. Large companies develop headquarters in countries that don't tax much for profits.

The company my father works for has its "headquarters" somewhere in the Caribbean (I forget exactly where) so it can dodge large taxes. In reality, the "headquarters" is one person paid to be there that has no actual part in the business.

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@1552435

and apply those monies to the American businesses which compete with similar products

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are 0Reply
@YeahIAm Right, because when people need someone to blame the economy for, they always turn to the people that are producing...

Smaller businesses don't make more money because they don't use chinese laborers to do all their work for pennies on the dollar. They don't outsource so that costs them money, but it boosts the economy in the long run.

Anonymous +2Reply
@Smaller businesses don't make more money because they don't use chinese laborers to do all their work for pennies...

Which is why I think we should give tax breaks to the smaller businesses who are struggling rather than the large companies.
Please, think about this, we let our companies grow so large, when a few start to fail, there's a huge fall-out and it surprised the hell out of some of us (I knew this was coming more than ten years ago), but if we keep them small, as they fail, it's easier to predict and try to remedy.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +1Reply

I really don't get tax cuts for the rich. The whole trickle down thing makes no sense!
Let's say someone get's you a giftcard for $25 to starbucks. So, you're saving $25 that you would have spent on Coffee. Do you go out and spend that money on something else? No. You keep it.
All this does is make the rich richer.

So much misinformation in this post is crazy...

Look. Here's the deal. Tax breaks for rich people is just weird and stupid, I agree with you there. But that's NOT what caused the recession. The American financial industry was regulated from 1940 to 1980, followed by a long period of deregulation. At the end of the 1980s, a savings and loan crisis cost taxpayers about $124 billion. In the late 1990s, the financial sector had consolidated into a few giant firms. In 2001, the Internet Stock Bubble burst because investment banks promoted Internet companies that they knew would fail, resulting in $5 trillion in investor losses. In the 1990s, derivatives became popular in the industry and added instability. Efforts to regulate derivatives were thwarted by the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, backed by several key officials. In the 2000s, the industry was dominated by five investment banks (Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, and Bear Stearns), two financial conglomerates (Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase), three securitized insurance companies (AIG, MBIA, AMBAC) and three rating agencies (Moody’s, Standard & Poors, Fitch).

Investment banks bundled mortgages with other loans and debts into collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), which they sold to investors. Rating agencies gave many CDOs AAA ratings. Subprime loans led to predatory lending. Many home owners were given loans they could never repay.

During the housing boom, the ratio of money borrowed by an investment bank versus the bank's own assets reached unprecedented levels. The credit default swap (CDS), was akin to an insurance policy. Speculators could buy CDSs to bet against CDOs they did not own. Numerous CDOs were backed by subprime mortgages. Goldman-Sachs sold more than $3 billion worth of CDOs in the first half of 2006. Goldman also bet against the low-value CDOs, telling investors they were high-quality. The three biggest ratings agencies contributed to the problem. AAA-rated instruments rocketed from a mere handful in 2000 to over 4,000 in 2006.

That's what caused the recession... And here we are now and no one has any idea how to solve except for great thinkers like you saying "tax the rich"... Ugh...

How about no tax cuts for anyone? What if there was just a flat % for everyone? The whole idea behind percents is to make the price fair for everyone.

Anonymous +1Reply

Everyone knows that anyone making more then 1 million dollars already pays around 32% in JUST income taxes right. So all this "tax the wealthy" stuff is really quite ridiculous.

Suggesting that some get taxed heavier and others get taxed less to "distribute hte wealth" is total communism.

Were the wealthiest Americans not being taxed before or do people just want higher taxes for them?

Anonymous 0Reply
@Were the wealthiest Americans not being taxed before or do people just want higher taxes for them?

Everyone got tax cuts from Bush's presidency. People want to end these for just the very rich because it would raise a significant amount of money. People also want to close loopholes in the tax code that allow the rich to pay even less.

@Brettward95 Everyone got tax cuts from Bush's presidency. People want to end these for just the very rich because it would...

Or for come companies no taxes at all. I'm for tax breaks, but for creating good paying American jobs, not for shipping jobs over seas.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Were the wealthiest Americans not being taxed before or do people just want higher taxes for them?

They have always been taxed. People want them to be taxed more. I've never liked the term "wealthiest Americans" because it's really ambiguous. It might mean the upper half of the middle class or it might mean multibillionaires. I don't know. I think multibillionares could find away to not pay there taxes no matter what the government charges so I'm not sure that taxing them more is going to make a huge difference.

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@1551943

Larger complex banks definitely didn't help http://bit.ly/rTMeOy but yes, the Bush era taxes need to end and the GOP needs to let it be.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +1Reply

I love you. Please run for office.

Trishs avatar Trish Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Trish I love you. Please run for office.

Funny you should say that http://sflesch.blogspot.com/ and http://www.facebook.com/pages/F...47812948611496

Not that I'm really running, but I think someone needs to run that doesn't have their head in the clouds or stuck in the sand. I think we need normal average people making decisions, not people who get paid by their wealthy friends and special interest groups - whether they are Democrat or Republican.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +1Reply
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@1553249

Please tell us.

Trishs avatar Trish Yeah You Are 0Reply
@1553249

Yes, its so obvious! Why didn't I think of that?! ;)

Gonna share?

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are 0Reply

I refuse to join a discussion about politics.

I think you just did. Like choosing not to decide is still a choice.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are 0Reply

Wait, so basically your saying that because my family owns a chain of convienence stores, and has over 75 employees, We should get taxed 3x as much as people who sit on their asses everyday?
If you work your ass off to get the good things you can afford, i.e. iPhone, iPod etc. etc. we should get taxed more?
and the people who sit on their asses everyday and live off the government should get tax exsumption?
Dude. Fuck you, OP.
You probably live off the government.

@Your_Moms_Boyfriend Wait, so basically your saying that because my family owns a chain of convienence stores, and has over 75...

You don't need to be crude. I'm actually a good example of how the system works well. I lived in government subsidized housing when I was little and got "free lunches." I started working while I was in high school. After that, if I wasn't working one full-time job, I was working a full-time and a part-time. When I went to college, there were even a few periods where I was working full-time, going to school part-time and working another part-time job.

Let me be clear I don't want a hand-out for myself. I want a bailout for the people losing their 2 and 3 bedroom homes, not the ones losing their mansions. I want a bailout for the inner city youth whose parents can't afford to properly parent them. Not a free hand-out though. They need to learn responsibility and be given hope instead of the constant despair they see every day. They should learn to earn their education, not feel entitled to it.

I actually support smaller businesses and think they should be given tax incentives, but yes, if your parents are making personal income in the top 1%, I think they should get fewer tax breaks than the employees in their stores making minimum wage.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +3Reply
@sflesch You don't need to be crude. I'm actually a good example of how the system works well. I lived in government...

"Not a free hand-out though. They need to learn responsibility..."
Americans WON'T learn responsibility.
Take, Take, Take.
Because Americans are greedy.
So the government should take pity on them?
and as for the people who work hard for what they want, and earn it themselves, they should pay to work hard for what they want?
thats like going to a factory and taking money from people's pay because they like what they do for a living.
Its not fucking right.

@Your_Moms_Boyfriend "Not a free hand-out though. They need to learn responsibility..." Americans WON'T learn responsibility. Take...

You come across as a spoiled rich kid. Associating the poor with greedy. I agree they need to learn responsibility. The inner cities here are pretty messed up and I don't have all the solutions, but it's a tough cycle to break for some. I've know more than a few people that were on some kind of government assistance and wanted to get off, but any little thing they did to get ahead they got penalized for.
They system needs to be set up to encourage people not to abuse it. For people who are on welfare, train them, provide daycare and provide incentives for them to get off. Want to go to school? Get a little more welfare as a bonus - for two years (two year degree) maybe. Want to work part-time? OK. If you make 50% of your welfare by working, we pay 60% of what you made on welfare. You're 10% ahead and being productive. Someone who is working part-time otherwise might completely loose welfare and not have an incentive to work. Finally, get yourself off welfare? How about a small bonus for a year or two if you stay off? Nothing big, maybe a tax break or something.
I'm a firm believer in the "give a man a fish" philosophy, but we need to actually teach some of these people.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +3Reply

this is the dumbest post I have ever seen.
whoever wrote it is a selfish liberal who needs to realize that no one, especially themself, deserves rich people's monies.

Anonymous -6Reply
@this is the dumbest post I have ever seen. whoever wrote it is a selfish liberal who needs to realize that no one...

That must make you a head-in-the-sand conservative. I don't want the money myself, therefore I am not selfish. I very much enjoy busting my butt every day for my paycheck. What kills me in when ignorant Conservatives see their jobs going to China and can't make the connection to the bonus the CEO is collecting for saving the company money.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +5Reply
@sflesch That must make you a head-in-the-sand conservative. I don't want the money myself, therefore I am not selfish. I...

Am I the only person who doesn't think its bad that better stuff is being made for less money by Chinese workers? It helps poor Chinese peasants and it gives other countries more affordable products.

@this is the dumbest post I have ever seen. whoever wrote it is a selfish liberal who needs to realize that no one...

Libertarians are considering the same thing. They want to stop tax breaks on the rich too.

Anonymous 0Reply
@Brettward95 I thought libertarians wanted no taxes.

Reduce taxes and cut government. Which are great ideals, but that's a long-term goal.

sfleschs avatar sflesch Yeah You Are +1Reply
@Libertarians are considering the same thing. They want to stop tax breaks on the rich too.

That's not true of all Libertarians. The typical Libertarian wants less taxes for everyone.

Anonymous