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If there was truly "liberty and justice for all" in America, then gay marriage would be legal, amirite?

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Wait wait wait, how?

How would giving homosexuals special rights mean justice for all?

And liberty, but not when it infringes on someone else's rights... that whole phrase is an oxymoron, because not everyone can have justice/liberty, that'd be impossible. Imagine if prisoners had liberty... would you fight for their right? You're not fighting for justice and liberty for all, you're fighting for a specific group, so don't make it look like you're doing something greater than what it is

@KickAss Wait wait wait, how? How would giving homosexuals special rights mean justice for all? And liberty, but not when...

Letting gay people marry, isn't a "special right." It's a natural right that all people are born with; which the government takes away from homosexuals. It isn't right, and is unconstitutional, if you want to get technical.

@Sahara9189495514 People aren't born with the right to be married. You have to be a certain age.

I think you misunderstood. I didn't say you could marry at whatever ago you want. I said, we are born with the right to marry whomever you want. Let it be 15 with parent consent, or 30, we should still be allowed to marry the person we love.

@MeaganM Letting gay people marry, isn't a "special right." It's a natural right that all people are born with; which the...

It is a special right, everyone has the right to marry someone... of the opposite sex. It's not like straight people can marry people of the same sex, but gay people can't. NOBODY can marry someone of the same sex, in that sense, your argument is invalid.

Oh and I know I'll get a lot of shit for this, everyone is going to thumbs me down, just because they don't like the completely valid point I'm making, just because they don't like my stance, BUT people can't take bullshit approaches to legalizing gay marriage, I agree that it's not right they aren't allowed to marry, but c'mon... come up with a better argument.

@KickAss It is a special right, everyone has the right to marry someone... of the opposite sex. It's not like straight...

Marriage is a right granted to couples, not individuals. Because of this, all couples have the same rights. But just like we are not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater, there are some limitations to marriage as well. There are some couples that are potentially dangerous to one or both people in the relationship (human/animal, adult/child, brother/sister) so those marriages are not permitted. There is nothing dangerous about gay relationships; they are equal to a straight couple. Not letting them marry is keeping them from a right that they deserve. Just like a woman is equal to a man, not letting them vote is wrong.

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are +4Reply
@pikabeau Marriage is a right granted to couples, not individuals. Because of this, all couples have the same rights. But...

How do you know they deserve it? Personally, I don't think straight people deserve to get married, but they are, so it's obvious they're not using my standards. So whose do they use? If all men are equal, then why would they use another guy's and not mine? Why not allow a brother to marry his sister, if they are both consenting adults, if it's about children, then they can adopt just like homosexuals and not procreate and just have sex. What makes an adult child relationship wrong? I mean if they're in "love", they should get married and have sex all day long. Why not?

@KickAss How do you know they deserve it? Personally, I don't think straight people deserve to get married, but they are, so...

I don't know who's standards the laws use to deem heterosexual couples worthy. Those standards say that criminals are more worthy of a marriage to the one they love than I am. I don't understand it, and I don't like it. A brother cannot marry his sister because of the possible offspring. Even if they used protection, it could fail. And then people start bringing up abortion for those couples, but that's a whole 'nother issue. A child cannot consent, now can it? A child can be goaded into believing they love an adult, or they could have a crush on someone who is an adult, but that does not make it okay. An adult/child relationship is dangerous to the child and a brother/sister relationship is dangerous to the potential children. Gay relationships are not dangerous to anyone, just like heterosexual relationships are not dangerous to anyone.

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are +1Reply
@pikabeau I don't know who's standards the laws use to deem heterosexual couples worthy. Those standards say that criminals...

See here, you're talking about potentiality which no one can technically determine... having an inbred child may harm the child, but so does drinking, smoking, drugs, accidents during pregnancy... these are all results of a heterosexual non related relationship. Sure an a child can be fooled easily, but so can an adult and it happens all the time. And in the past 40 year olds used to marry 15 year olds and it would be normal, but now it's absolutely horrid and unimaginable. The stuff we forbid, was once the norm. So who knows what will happen in the futer?

What you are doing here is supporting something that is seen as taboo (that you believe in), then saying that other things that you deem taboo shouldn't be allowed.

@KickAss See here, you're talking about potentiality which no one can technically determine... having an inbred child may...

I believe that anything that does not harm anyone else should be allowed. What's so wrong with that? If something is taboo because it is harmful, that's all the more reason for it to remain taboo.
Laws have changed because it became taboo for a fifteen year old and forty year old to be together. Laws evolve based on public opinion. Homosexual relationships are no longer taboo, so why not let the laws evolve to show that trend?

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are 0Reply
@pikabeau I believe that anything that does not harm anyone else should be allowed. What's so wrong with that? If something...

Laws evolve on public opinion, but public opinion changes, so is that a reliable resource? Besides one of the reasons gay marriage isn't allowed, is not because of what it does, but because of what it doesn't do, procreate.

@KickAss Laws evolve on public opinion, but public opinion changes, so is that a reliable resource? Besides one of the...

Public opinion changes, thus laws change. It's been that way for all of history. Public opinion is in favor of gay marriage so the law needs to change.
Lots of people get married without the ability or the intent to procreate. Wanting children is not a prerequisite to marriage. Being married helps foster a stable home for the children of a relationship regardless of whether or not their parents created them or they were adopted.

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are 0Reply
@pikabeau Public opinion changes, thus laws change. It's been that way for all of history. Public opinion is in favor of gay...

What about a brother and sister?
You should reread your whole argument and see how much what you say contradicts itself depending on the situation :>

@KickAss What about a brother and sister? You should reread your whole argument and see how much what you say contradicts...

I don't see how I've contradicted myself. Brother and sister relationships are very harmful, thus illegal. A brother and sister can reproduce and when they do they create mutated children. They could take all the precautions in the world to not get pregnant, but nothing is guaranteed. That is why they cannot marry.

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are 0Reply
@pikabeau I don't see how I've contradicted myself. Brother and sister relationships are very harmful, thus illegal. A...

You can have a mutated child from people who aren't related, maybe we should forbid that, so it doesn't happen? Maybe we should only allow only homosexual relationships? Some people raise people who ends up committing genocide, we should also make that illegal.

@KickAss You can have a mutated child from people who aren't related, maybe we should forbid that, so it doesn't happen?...

It's almost 100% that the child of a brother and sister will be mutated in some way. What are the chances of two non-related people? Even first cousins can marry in some states, so the chances of having mutated children decreases significantly if you mate outside of your immediate family.

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are 0Reply
@pikabeau It's almost 100% that the child of a brother and sister will be mutated in some way. What are the chances of two...

Also if the parents want a mutated child, why stop them? Why is that wrong?

If a non related couple doesn't want to abort a kid with down syndrome, should they be taken and murdered? The kid I mean.

Do you remember how Hitler used to kill people who weren't like him? Who is to say who should live and who shouldn't?

@KickAss Also if the parents want a mutated child, why stop them? Why is that wrong? If a non related couple doesn't want...

It's wrong to put a child through that. It's downright inhumane.

Of course not. Kids with down syndrome have been known to lead perfectly normal lives. And once a child is born, it is wrong to kill it. Murder is illegal, after all.

I don't remember, because I wasn't born yet, but I learned about it. No one is to say who should and shouldn't live. Preventing the conception of mutated offspring is not taking away life.

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are 0Reply
@pikabeau It's wrong to put a child through that. It's downright inhumane. Of course not. Kids with down syndrome have been...

You are the one to decide this?
What if they're perfectly happy?

Down syndrome is just an example. There are other mental illnesses a kid can have. Also, why can't a brother and sister abort, before they're born?

I imagine this is a restriction that Hitler would have put in in an attempt to have a perfect society.

@KickAss You are the one to decide this? What if they're perfectly happy? Down syndrome is just an example. There are other...

How would you find out if they're happy? "Wave your flipper once for yes, twice for no"?

They can abort. I've never once stated an opposition to abortion. But that's just my opinion. I'm not the one who makes laws.

All laws have restrictions. Murder is illegal unless you're killing a killer. It's illegal for people under 18 to marry unless they have parental consent. These laws do not keep people from doing something that others like them would not be able to do. But then you get to the issue of gay marriage. A heterosexual couple can marry, but a homosexual couple that is identical to them in every way cannot get married. You don't see why some people would have a problem with that?

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are 0Reply
@KickAss It is a special right, everyone has the right to marry someone... of the opposite sex. It's not like straight...

Actually here are the rights that Americans have - "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." At the very least, I think 'pursuit of happiness' means being able to marry the person you love.

@MeaganM Actually here are the rights that Americans have - "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are...

Those are such vague things... legally, they hold no value. I personally think raping orphans and killing Buddhist monks makes me happy, but I can't do that, are my rights touched?

@KickAss Those are such vague things... legally, they hold no value. I personally think raping orphans and killing Buddhist...

The difference is, what you're suggesting, there's a victim. But who is the victim if homosexuals are allowed to get married?

@MeaganM The difference is, what you're suggesting, there's a victim. But who is the victim if homosexuals are allowed to...

I understand laws that prevent victims and am in all favor for them. However, this law does not prevent victims, it withholds the right for people to marry the person they love. So where is the justice in this law?

@MeaganM I understand laws that prevent victims and am in all favor for them. However, this law does not prevent victims, it...

Yes, but it's kind of self evident that the people who wrote the constitution weren't exactly in their right mind when they wrote it... it seems like it's one of those things were they're so excited that they just got their freedom, they were just like, "Hey we need this." and people are like, "Yeah" and that and this people just ended up agreeing.

Need I remind you these people were slave owners? These people are the same people who did not think Africans deserve the same rights, so it's obvious that, they did not intend on everyone having equal rights, when they wrote those words.

@KickAss Yes, but it's kind of self evident that the people who wrote the constitution weren't exactly in their right mind...

Yes, they were slave owners and did not think African Americans deserved the same rights. But they added the 13th Amendment and numerous other Amendments (and are still adding) to right all the wrongs in The Constitution. Then, they did not intend on everyone having equal rights. But now? Absolutely they do, that is as long as you're not homosexual. All they have done is make homosexuals the new African Americans.

The Amendment to legalize gay marriage is long overdue.

@MeaganM Yes, they were slave owners and did not think African Americans deserved the same rights. But they added the 13th...

Now we're getting somewhere, I feel like I'm taking you guys hand in hand through this argument. You have accepted that you are wrong and have moved the argument elsewhere.

Btw I've actually made a mistake, "liberty and justice for all" isn't included in the constitution, just in the pledge.. and that was written after the civil war... so I have failed on my part.

@MeaganM The difference is, what you're suggesting, there's a victim. But who is the victim if homosexuals are allowed to...

Regardless, my rights are being touched... I don't have complete freedom, no one does, it's part of living in a civilized society, everyone makes sacrifices, I don't kill orphans and guys can't marry other guys.

Going to bed, I'll reply in morning

@KickAss Those are such vague things... legally, they hold no value. I personally think raping orphans and killing Buddhist...

Actually according to the Constitution, a human being has the right to do almost anything as long as it doesn't harm another being. So technically, you dont have the right to rape orphans and kill Buddhist monks

Anonymous +1Reply
@KickAss The writers of the constitution owned slaves Just saying.

Oh yes I know. One of the writers had gout and couldn't walk, so his slaves carried him around on his mini thrown. All the while writing about the equality of men, but slaves were not even considered people sooo....wait whats your point?

Anonymous 0Reply
@Oh yes I know. One of the writers had gout and couldn't walk, so his slaves carried him around on his mini thrown...

It puts the morality of the writers up for question... or at least it would in my mind.

I dunno, maybe it's just me.

@KickAss It puts the morality of the writers up for question... or at least it would in my mind. I dunno, maybe it's just me.

Unrelated to topic at hand: sometimes your logic, it makes sense, but I know it's wrong. And sometimes it's like you know it's twisted too but you stick with it and your arguments are good or confusing, which throws me off more. I call it "Sensible Fucked up Logic" do you get it? Because it's hard to explain

Anonymous 0Reply
@KickAss Wait wait wait, how? How would giving homosexuals special rights mean justice for all? And liberty, but not when...

I'm pretty sure being a prisoner is a long stretch from being a homosexual. Justice and liberty needs to be given to those who deserve it.

Kazzixs avatar Kazzix Yeah You Are +4Reply
@Kazzix I'm pretty sure being a prisoner is a long stretch from being a homosexual. Justice and liberty needs to be given...

Ohoho, but you just inadvertently proved my point, just and liberty is given to those who deserve it now? So who is to say gay people deserve it? Heck who is to say anyone deserves it? Who is to determine who has what right and who doesn't?

@KickAss Ohoho, but you just inadvertently proved my point, just and liberty is given to those who deserve it now? So who is...

Actually, yes, it is. Or rather, it should be given to those who deserve it, although it isn't. Homosexuals have done nothing wrong, therefore they deserve justice and liberty.

Kazzixs avatar Kazzix Yeah You Are 0Reply
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