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If God exists, and His primary attributes are love and mercy, you tend to think that he will not let good people perish, even if they don't accept Him. Especially because a "good person" should naturally find it hard to accept a God who will supposedly cut off the majority of humanity from Himself, even those who wanted to believe but just couldn't find Him, amirite?

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A friend of mine once brought up a good question: Who deserves the most moral credit? A person who is good because they believe they will go to heaven, or a person who is good because it makes them feel better about themselves?

StickCavemans avatar StickCaveman Yeah You Are +9Reply
@StickCaveman A friend of mine once brought up a good question: Who deserves the most moral credit? A person who is good because...

Neither. A good person is a good person dispite why they are being nice, in my opinion. Everyone has a reason to be nice to people, whether it be to please God or make people think better of them or make them feel better about themselves.

@StickCaveman A friend of mine once brought up a good question: Who deserves the most moral credit? A person who is good because...

Well in my religion doing good things doesn't get you into heaven, so that being said when I do things for other people I do it because I like to see them happy. There is no better feeling than the smile on someone else's face because of something you did. Religion doesn't make you a nice person, just look at all the horrible people who tell people that God hates fags, that is completely untrue, He doesn't like what there doing but he still loves them and me lying a white lie to someone is just as bad as any sin.

Anonymous +4Reply

As respectfully as possible, Christians believe that there are no "good" people.

@runnerdude As respectfully as possible, Christians believe that there are no "good" people.

Ah I should clarify; evangelical born again Christians believe there are no good people. And I would know. Where I live is one of the most unreached places in the us. I think born again Christians are 0.9%

@runnerdude As respectfully as possible, Christians believe that there are no "good" people.

Im sorry runner I'm confused by your comment. What do you mean by unreached?

@runnerdude As respectfully as possible, Christians believe that there are no "good" people.

That's simply not true. Certain Christians (Catholics) have a whole Communion of Saints that they honor for living extraordinarily holy lives. Christians believe they should love everyone regardless of their actions or choices.

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@1769441

Good comment. I guess I was saying in OP that IF the Christian God exists, then I will happily be a martyr of his judgment. I just can't accept the doctrine of soteriology as it is usually interpreted in scripture, and obviously it does no good to lie to yourself as of what scripture says. But if we are at the hands of such an unjust system, then we are victims and not villains. That is, as long as we do the best that we can to live as a good person, love others as ourselves, and limit the pain we cause others. Why these things? are they arbitrary? Perhaps, but that has always been my conviction of how a functioning society of good people operates

Joe_Larsons avatar Joe_Larson Yeah You Are +2Reply

If the defining characteristic for acceptance into heaven was to be "good" no one would get into heaven anyway.

God didn't cut off the majority of humanity from Himself.

@Horseboat God didn't cut off the majority of humanity from Himself.

Over the course of the entire human race, most people did not believe in the Christian God.

Well I'm a Christian and when a good person dies, I find comfort in my belief that heaven is better than anything anyone could ever imagine. Like, at least they went to a better place(: but that's just my opinion.

What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest way to get to heaven is to believe in God. Hitler was supposedly a Christian. Even though he was an evil person, does he still go to heaven because he believed in God or does he burn in hell for all the evil he did?

@musical What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest...

You can't just say God forgive me and get into heaven. If it was that simple everyone would say it so they wouldn't have to worry about it.

@musical What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest...

Yeah Christians are hurting Christianity more than anyone else and it sucks because then no one knows what a real Christian is

@musical What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest...

I doubt that Hitler asked for forgiveness. He didn't believe he did anything wrong. And he killed himself out of pride, knowing that he lost. Asking for forgiveness isn't a simple "I'm sorry," it has to be completely sincere, a conversion of self. I've found that people that go their whole lives committing evil deeds typically reap what they sow and are blinded by their faults. So no, I don't believe that Hitler would be in heaven.

@musical What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest...

Oh well that's not good. I'm an atheist so it doesn't really affect me, but it's sad to know that all those churches are teaching young kids like me the wrong things about Christianity.

@musical What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest...

Although suicide is a grave sin, that's not necessarily true. The Catholic catechism says:

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

I guess it's because some people that commit suicide aren't themselves or lack the ability to make sane choices. The Bible clearly indicates that those that can't make their own choices (children, babies, etc.) are judged differently.

In Hitler's case, however, I think that suicide was a grave sin. He made the choice while completely himself and it manifested out of pride (a deadly sin). And again, I'm sure that he didn't repent, especially since his final act was a sin.

@musical What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest...

You have to be forgiven and have a life change. When someone truly becomes a Christian their whole outlook on life changes.
In Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus actually warns against the thing your churches are preaching

@musical What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest...

I think you're just misinterpreting what the Churches are teaching you. It is true that if you ask for forgiveness God will save you from hell. The catch is that you have to be truly sorry for what you did and be willing to turn towards God.

@musical What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest...

Well, there is a doctrine that our faith and devotion to God is demonstrated by our works. What bothers me is that a lot of good-hearted people don't believe in God or accept His path to salvation

Joe_Larsons avatar Joe_Larson Yeah You Are -1Reply
@Madie You never knowwwww...

Just for the record, he wouldn't be. Hitler committed suicide; that's supposed to be that one unforgivable sin that would guarantee you hell.

@musical What I want to know is if believing in God overrides any evil you committed in your life. It seems that the easiest...

Um... Well my parent's church tells everyone that as long as you ask Jesus for forgiveness, you're clear. You get into heaven. So, by that logic, Hitler is probably in heaven. Right?

I'm saying this as a Christian, God really isn't that nice of a guy. I think He loves us, but He's also very strict. There's multiple timea in the Bible where He tells someone to do something a certain way or they'll die and if they don't do it as He said, they do die. No"but"s or anything. He's also very forgiving, of course, but I'd say He's pretty strict.

@Statefarm I'm saying this as a Christian, God really isn't that nice of a guy. I think He loves us, but He's also very...

That's the bit that scares me the most; it's hard to know what to believe. there's so little comfort in going against Christianity, and if I were to become Christian, it'd be out of fear.

@Statefarm I'm saying this as a Christian, God really isn't that nice of a guy. I think He loves us, but He's also very...

It is hard to know what to believe. I'm a Christian because it personally makes sense to me. I was raised a Christian and no matter how many times people tell me it's illogical or something to same effect, I don't listen because I truly believe in God. I don't think anyone should become a Christian out of fear though because God would know if you actually believed in Him or if you just identified that way because you were afraid of hell.

@Statefarm It is hard to know what to believe. I'm a Christian because it personally makes sense to me. I was raised a...

it's really cool that you have that kind of connection with religion. I was raised as a Christian as well, but it occurred to me that I was just blindly agreeing with something that I didn't agree with. It just sucks though, it doesn't seem fair to the folks who are pretty much guaranteed a shitty afterlife because they were made to question the world and its authorities.

@Statefarm I'm saying this as a Christian, God really isn't that nice of a guy. I think He loves us, but He's also very...

It's not fair to people of other religions, but I think that's kind of why there are other religions, I guess? You decide what you truly believe and then it shouldn't really matter too much if it isn't fair. I mean, I don't know what's going to happen after we die. We might just disappear or get reincarnated; I just personally believe in the Christian afterlife.

@Statefarm It's not fair to people of other religions, but I think that's kind of why there are other religions, I guess? You...

That's true. I guess we'll all find out. and if we don't then the atheists are right. not that it matters at that point anyway.

His primary attributes also include justice. Every sin a person commits must be paid in full before that person can go to Heaven, and the only price that is enough is Jesus.

Anonymous +1Reply

Any time I worry about this stuff I just remind myself of Genesis 18:25b. "Will not the judge of the earth be just?"

God is not real. imaginary stuff makes me lulz

The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the polar opposite of love and compassion as we know it. I mean really, a community of mountain gorillas are morally superior

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

1 SAMUEL 6:19 Some of the men of Beth Shemesh looked into the Ark. God punished them by killing all 70 of them.
1 SAMUEL 7:7-11 God helped Samuel's men kill the Phillistines, "slaughtering them along the way to a point below Beth Car."
1 SAMUEL 15:7-8 God commanded Saul to attack the Amalekites and "totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
2 SAMUEL 12:1 For David's murder of Uriah, God killed David's son
2 KINGS 14:3-5 God was unhappy with Azariah, even though he had done what was right in the eyes of the Lord. The high places had not been removed, and God was jealous of their sacrifices on that altar. So God afflicted Azariah with leprosy as punishment
2 KINGS 19:35 An angel of the Lord killed 185,000 men in the Assyrian camp

But just remember one thing, guys: God loves you :)

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

My favourite is actually about Jesus, not God.
Luke 19 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Cherryblossom is correct. It actually is a parable told by Jesus. Oddly violent.. but a parable nonetheless. So I was ignorant there for a little bit, 'pologies.

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Yup. Everyone that doesn't accept Jesus should be killed. That was said by Jesus himself. It's my favourite because it's New Testament, no one can really say "It's a metaphor", and it was Jesus which people like to think was all good.

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Chasing_Echos, Jesus did not tell anyone to kill anyone. That's a parable, a story that Jesus told to his audience to illustrate a message. In the story he told, the king ordered the death of those that refused to serve him. Jesus portrays most of his teachings in the form of parables.

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

I don't sugarcoat things while discussing issues like this whatsoever. There's a taboo on full on criticism of religion in general of which I don't succumb, so what I say seems more offensive than it really is.

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

While Unicorns here worded his comment in the most offensive way possible, he's not wrong. The bible very clearly states god killing people or requiring us to kill certain people. you can't deny that.

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

While I agree that the Biblical God is "questionable" (to put it nicely) in some situations, you can't deny His loving attributes as well. If you are going to judge God by the Bible, it's not fair to only point out His bad parts

Joe_Larsons avatar Joe_Larson Yeah You Are +4Reply
@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Hahahahahaha! I just went to go read all of Luke 19 to make sure I didn't take this out of context. After Jesus says this (for no real reason mind you) it just get completely ignored. It's not talked about or brought back up at all. That's kind of a big thing to say to just not talk more about it.

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Luke 19:11 "As they heard these things, he proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately. (Luke 19:11 ESV)

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Haha you're welcome. Btw if you ever have any questions or anything just message me. I was so against Christianity for a while and then it kinda all made sense to me so I know where your coming from I guess

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Yeah. Although it doesn't matter too much that there are, since it actually flat out says he's telling a parable haha

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Oh nooo, appreciated buuut I think you have the wrong idea. I find the bible or any other ancient book attributed to some god not to be any evidence of divinity whatsoever. Which we actually have in common. You reject the holy books of other religions for the same reason I reject the holy book of your religion :/

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Maybe historically, but not in the divine aspect. At all. As for the books, that's not what I said. I said I perceive it not to be evidence of a god. NOT that I perceive them to be evidence of no god. Those two statements are apples and oranges, dude.

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

What Jack3305 said.

Plus, there are other indications. Jesus uses parables quite frequently, and this one story isn't an exception. Also, consider Jesus's age and position in life. When would he have actually experienced this scenario?

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Sorry I misread that. So you are saying that just because the Bible or Quran etc. says there is a god is not evidence that there is a god?
If that's not could you please explain what you mean?

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Although I do have questions, and Cherryblossom, maybe you know a bit more about this stuff then me. The bible I picked up in my home simply had a sort of side note that wasn't apart of the story or book itself, it just said it was a parable. However, the story itself doesn't really indicate this. But perhaps I'm just missing something. How do we actually know it's a parable?

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

The bible actually is the most reliable of any old religious book.
http://www.allaboutthejourney.o...anuscripts.htm
Jw how can a book attributed to a god be evidence of no god at all?

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

I missed that as well hmm smilie so I too apologise.

Unrelated to the previous parable and I'm asking from pure curiosity, not attacking:
what makes Christians think that the entire bible isn't just one long parable or an allegory? Why is it only certain parts?

@Unicorns The answer to this big giant super confusing and totally not obvious mystery is no. The god of Christianity is the...

Most of that stuff is before Jesus died on the cross, In dying on the cross Jesus (the only perfect person to walk the earth) sacrificed himself for our sins. For this reason our sins can be forgiven and not punished by God, but before this God was all like Hell No you can't sin and get away with it, BAM you dead.

Anonymous -3Reply
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