I say no because people get abortions for many reasons other than rape, like health complications, money issues, maybe the couple isn't ready or old enough, and as much as I wish rape would never ever happen I wouldn't want to compromise women's health issues
I don't see this as a fair trade-off. I should have a right to my personal safety and to my personal reproductive health. Why should I have to sacrifice one for the other?
When I was raped, I was drugged and then left alone by the people who went out drinking with me. Also, I wasn't dressed provocatively. Not my any standard. So how about you stop victim-blaming and start looking at the slime who won't take 'no' for an answer?
I don't think the post is trying to say that you should have to pick one. I think the point of the post is to see which of the two rights people value the most. But yes, in a perfect world there wouldn't be any rape and nobody would even get pregnant who didn't want to
Exactly. I was raped too and it had nothing to do with me being out of control drunk or dressing provocatively or not knowing how to defend myself. It's not something you expect or can plan ahead to avoid. Anyone who tries to place blame on the victim is very very wrong.
But there are other options for women to avoid getting pregnant in the first place. It's not that people would even have to compromise women's health, they just don't want to compromise their sex lives. If someone is too young or wouldn't be able to raise a child they should either be using protection or birth control or shouldn't have sex at all. A rape victim can't plan ahead to avoid the physical and emotional damage that comes with rape, they are pretty much helpless.
If you take proper precautions you can avoid rape, suchas never becoming belligerently drunk, train in some sort of self-defense, dress modestly, and always have a friend near-by rape would become very difficult and much less likely to happen
You can't fix rape. You can't fix violence, drug addiction, war, racism, anything of that sort. It is in our nature and that tends to be ignored when "feel-good, highly idealistic plans our ignored".
The best you can do, I feel, is to prepare people and make it harder for rapists to find their victims.
With violence, you can promote, at a young age, a strong concept of right and wrong and teach kids how to control their impulses and redirect their anger/emotions elsewhere. Racism can be approached in a similar way, as can drug addiction.
Stealing on the other hand is harder to control due to some people needing food and other stuff to survive.
Anyway, my point is that although these tendencies can't be eliminated, you can give people more tools to deal with and help control their urges.
There's actually a primitive society where the father will build his daughter a sex hut outside of the house when the girl is as young as 13. They have never heard of someone forcing someone else to have sex. A girl invites a boy in to talk, and they make the decision to have sex or not. In countries where almost everyone owns a gun, there's hardly any gun crimes. In Chicago where they have strict gun laws and hardly anyone has a gun, the gun deaths are higher than in Afghanistan. You may not be able to %100 fix something, but by eliminating the taboo related to it the problem goes down significantly.
A: Even if I didn't have a plan, I wouldn't want to take away anyone's right if I didn't have to.
B: I have a plan for reducing rape as much as possible, but I don't want to get in to it because it's a whole cluster-fuck of changes in legislation and this country's attitude towards stuff.
As you said, your plan might work in a perfect world. However, your guns plan would certainly result in someone misusing their gun, which could lead to disaster. Also, I agree that it would be smart for women to be careful about rapists, but as a society, we should teach men not to rape, not teach women not to get raped.
Even though I disagree with a lot of your plan, I have to give you credit for putting so much thought into making our society better
Perhaps in a perfect world this would be fine, but it's not a perfect world. It's just stupid and irresponsible to do whatever without any sort of precaution.
Actually that's not true, there was a study done where they asked rapists if they remembered what their victim was wearing and most of them didn't, the clothing wasn't a motivation it was more about opportunity (especially considering the majority of rape victims knew their attacker already). People wearing all sorts of clothes get raped even in countries that by law require women to be dressed modestly there are high number of rapes.
@Enrique - I didn't say that you said it was their fault, just letting you know clothing vary rarely has anything to do with rape.
@John - Holy Jesus no there is never a situation in rape where they victim is to blame. That kind of thinking is what stops people reporting their attacks. I can not count how many times I have been blind drunk but I have never been raped, because I was not around a rapist.
I have no idea where that came from or how you got anything like that from my comment. I don't have that view at all, rape can happen to anyone in all sorts of situations... What about those cases? I don't condone the actions of the people who make false rape claims obviously that is just wrong. We're talking about where a girl is actually raped and people blame it on her clothes or how drunk she was etc... when the blame should be on the rapist.
I was satisfied with the legitimacy of that link for the town, and the way you backed up your argument, but while people bring more open to guns and getting trained sounds positive I think passing law that says you MUST have a gun in the household is extreme. A family who believes in pacifism and tries to pass on the ideals to their children that violence is never the answer should not have to, by law, become hypocrites in their children's eyes.
Haha, I actually meant that people wouldn't have to be careful in a perfect world. My plan would probably be the best we can do at the moment. People aren't likely to misuse their gun if it's registered and would be tracked down instantly, especially if the person they would use it against also has one. There's actually a town in the U.S. that follows that line of gun law, and it has one of the lowest crime rates in this country.
I have heard of that. What I've never heard of was a massacre in a place where anyone else had a firearm. Massacres occur in GUN FREE ZONES.
And yeah, it is great. People need to take responsibility for their actions. That's what we've begun to lose as a species, and we think there's always someone else to blame.
Fuck, all I wanted to do was point out that John said "some of the blame". I don't think he is advocating either victim blaming or that the woman bears any responsibility all the time. I'll be the first to acknowledge that in probably the majority of cases, the man simply overpowered her and there is nothing she could do. I hate losing the original point of my comment. Sorry!
@Mike_Hawk: I disagreed until you added that second comment, because although there may be a few cases where the victim could've done something differently that could've prevented rape from happening, in MOST cases it is simply that the girl was over powered and there was nothing she could do. I am glad that you added that in.
Perhaps it is a little extreme. In fact, it crosses the boundary of me not wanting to tell people what to do. However, I would like owning a firearm to be largely encouraged, and it'd be nice to see them as common household tools.
Look, I don't want anyone thinking I was suggesting that wearing skimpy clothing and such are major factors when it comes to rape. I still believe that they play a role in at least a small percentage of rapes, and every little bit helps when it comes to trying to solve the problem.
I never said it is the person's fault, I'm stating that you could take preventative measures in the case that SOMEONE does get raped, the chances of it being you are greatly reduced
I'm gonna have to back up John in this debate, solely because he said "some of the blame". I don't think rape would ever be 100% the woman's fault; the criteria for rape prevent that. However, I think there are situations in which SOME of the blame lies with the victim. Rapists exist, that's a fact some people seem to refuse to acknowledge. Skimpy clothing draws attention from more men, and alcohol makes people less able to do ANYTHING. While they are of course not invitations for rape, they paint one as a more likely target and facilitate a much easier rape. Every actions entails risk, and we accept those risks whether or not we want to. If you drive to a bad neighborhood with a nice car, leave it unlocked, and visit a frown for a while, it will probably be stolen. It wasn't your fault, but perhaps it wouldn't have happened if you took any sort of precaution. I'm not even suggesting that it would be any large percentage, but I'm willing to bet money that there are rapes that could have been prevented if a factor or two changed. Perhaps the woman dressed more modestly and her rapist didn't notice her, or perhaps she wasn't so drunk and he didn't think she was vulnerable.
I'm really bad at communicating thoughts, so I've become really good at using metaphors and similes to convey my ideas. I just realized that I fucked up and autocorrect changed my attempt at spelling "friend" in to "frown". I hate silly mistakes like that.
Firstly i agree drugs need to be legalised, but wow okay so your solution to LOWER crime is to train and give people guns?! Ever heard of the virginia tech massacre? And put more responsibility on the victim... wow, yeah that's really great. Instead of teaching people if they wear a miniskirt they'll get raped, how about teaching people that a girl in a mini skirt is not an invitation for rape?
Spearmint- For some reason you have the view rape is this drunk innocent slutty dressed young girl minding her own business when a shady trench coat guy jumps on her from the alley and does what he does. What about the countless cases where a girl irresponsibly dresses like a whore, gets stupid drunk, and then sloppily has sex with a guy at a party. The next day she hears about it and charges the innocent guy with rape. He is immediately charged with likely jail time because "She's the girl so she's right and innocent, he's a man so shame on him for defiling her" when the guy just thought he was having sex. I know a friend of mine who's cousin went through that. Three different people said that the "victim" who was very drunk, pulled him into her lap, undid his pants, and hopped on him ( He was quite drunk too). But in the morning she went to the police and maintained that she has a boyfriend and would never cheat so she was raped with her guard down. My friends cousin was found guilty of rape and got either 12 or 18 months I forget.
Maybe clothing might not be of importance, but blind drunk and irresponsibly out if control is very occasionally a factor which leaves some of the blame on said victim.
Yeah, I agree that only a rapist is going to rape someone, but they are much more likely to rape a girl dressed provocatively at a party who is hammered than to rape the sober, modestly dressed girl.
Well, of course my first solution to absolutely anything is to legalize drugs. That's a drop in crime right there, and it frees up a lot of police force for working on other crime. If the police are more adept at catching criminals, people will be discouraged from committing crime.
Second on the list is a change in how we view guns as a country. We need to get rid of the fear-mongering, and perhaps even start to encourage more responsible citizens to own firearms. We can also eliminate things such as gun-free zones. After this has been in effect for a bit, we could start imposing laws the require every capable household to own a gun, and every capable citizen be trained in how to operate a firearm. People will be able to defend themselves against rape, instead of just kinda hoping it doesn't happen.
Finally, we just need to start teaching responsibility. Now, I'm not all about victim-blaming, but I'm a firm believer that in most situations, everyone takes some blame. It kinda makes me mad when people say a person should be able to wear whatever they want, be as intoxicated as they want, and walk wherever they want at whatever time and alone without worrying.
I would, if I had the right to decide (I'm a guy), abort based on what I would want for myself. For example, I would not want to live with Down's Syndrome, so I would abort my kid if he was going to be born with Down Syndrome. I would not want to live with the fact that the only reason for my existence is some asshole assaulting and fucking my mom, so I would abort my kid if he was a rape baby too. Etc, etc.
There is nothing wrong with abortion so long as it is in the proper period during pregnancy where the fetus isn't for the most part a developed human. But if you're only talking about abortions where the fetus is, then it's an extremely easy yes, for me.
Plus, a world where people's inalienable rights can just be stripped of them like that is hardly a better trade-off for the current world at hand. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"
I've never experienced either, but from an outside prospective it seems like being forced to have sex and being forced to give birth would be equally damaging.
-Not being raped is a more fundamental human right than access to abortion, especially when it comes to bodily autonomy and security
-Not everyone that gets raped will want to abort, or to give birth, so forcing them to pick one of these options would be traumatizing
-Safety from this kind of violence would be extremely liberating for all women
-Rape includes coercion and statuatory rape
-Rape affects people from many groups (women, men, and children)
-Rape also affects people from all parts of the world, including people sold into sex slavery --> These people don't do this of their own free will, so sex slavery would end
-And like, a ton more reasons.
We should definitely be able to end this on our own outside of a hypothetical question, but this post is asking which one would you eliminate right now.
(The reason I pitted the two options together is because rape is always a touchy subject in abortion debates.)
I can see your reasoning, but I still wouldn't change my vote.
Why is it more of a fundamental human right? Who gets to say which one is more important. Especially when your bodily autonomy is being taken away for 9 months and women become more vulnerable to violence when they are pregnant.
No of course not everyone who gets raped will want to abort, but they should have the choice to if they are in that situation. I'd say it's less traumatizing to choose than to be forced to be pregnant and give birth against their will (this would obviously vary person to person).
That is very true, no one could argue that. But it is also very liberating for women to have control over their reproductive rights.
Rape does affect people from all groups, and all over the world in lots of different situations and it's horrible but I have the most problem with this point to be honest. Because why should the people who can get pregnant have to sacrifice the right to control their body so everyone is safe from rape? That's not fair.
Spearmintmilk-
To add to your 2nd retort, the leading cause of death for pregnant women is by murder; the leading cause of death in 15-19 year old girls is pregnancy/childbirth.
@awesome_personified
Rape is absolutely NOT more of a right than abortion. The implications to such a concept being true are so staggering that I don't think you even know what you're saying
Well I think I am more entitled to not have sex if I don't want to then I am to abort a fetus that I accidentally conceived. I don't see how anyone can argue against this.
Rape is more of a right than abortion because women did have a choice not to have sex (providing rape didn't exist) and so had more choice than the victim of rape. But I do think both should be a right.
@unicorns: By rape I think awesome_personified meant the right to not having sex if they don't want to, which definitely should be more of a right than abortion
@first reply Access to abortion isnt a fundamental human right...human rights are meant to be considered as the natural rights of a person (based on moral grounds), and last time i checked, abortion, intentionally killing a baby, is not a natural process. Miscarriage, yes. Abortion, not a chance. If anything, the only human rights which are violated during an abortion is the unborn child's right to life.
I say no because of personal experience. I accidentally got pregnant because the condom broke, not because of rape, and I'm not emotionally prepared to go through pregnancy in college, let alone have a kid at 18. Plus it wouldn't be fair to my kid, not just because he'd have an irresponsible 18 year old mother, but because he'd be half cat.
Hmm I wonder what Kitty style would be. It'd probably just be one person going down and licking every part of the their partner's body, then gagging some hair out.
I don't think this question should even be answered. Here's why
First: there is no way you could just eliminate rape. That already makes it a moot question.
Second: yeah you'll say "oh it's just a hypothetical. It doesn't need to be practical". Bullshit. It's a way to try to start a debate. If someone says they wouldn't, you won't just say "okay interesting"
Third: rape isn't the only reason for abortion. There's the concern of not being able to raise it (sure. Adoption is a better choice, but it's still a reason). There's also times when birth could pose significant health risk to the mother and/or child.
I may or may not continue to debate replies to this depending on how lazy I feel.
I've already decided not to participate in the debate so I might as well be saying "okay interesting."
As for your third point, it doesn't really matter how related the two are. The post just asks if the trade-off is worth it.
I'm not too fond of this post simply because it is purely hypothetical, meaning that no real applicable conclusion can be made. However, I made it to see how people would vote if one of the major controversies in the abortion dilemma could be eliminated.
I thought about this post for a while before finally deciding what I think.
I support abortion and believe it should be the woman's decision whether she wants to abort or not, and think it's better for a fetus to have been aborted than for a kid to live miserable his whole life either in an orphanage or living his life knowing his mom/parents were gonna abort him and/or hate him.
BUT think about it this way:
A rape victim didn't choose to have sex, while a normal pregnant woman did. So she deserves the consequences much more than a rape victim does; now a rape victim doesn't always end up getting pregnant, but even if she didn't, that incident would still affect her whole life, physically and emotionally.
Rape is much more terrible than being pregnant; 9 months and you'll get over it, then you can put your baby up for adoption, or who knows you might end up wanting to keep your baby; but a raped man/woman/child, will have to live with that for the rest of their life.
The thing that made me consider NWing this is a woman whose health and life might be affected by the baby's birth, but I still agree with this post.
I know right? Some people think that rape is just this forced sex, and is only terrible during, well, ~it~, but it's much more worse than that. That person may never consider having sex ever again, will be afraid to be even touched on the shoulders, and the incident will haunt them forever, and who knows what else.
Exactly!!!! I agree especially with the part about the normal pregnant woman deserving the consequences over the rape victim. I feel like people are over looking the fact that these women WILLINGLY had sex knowing they could get pregnant whereas the rape victim obviously did not choose it.
I know right; everyone's always like "it should be the mother's decision to abort or not", but like she could have decided before having sex. But no, apparently for some people, they prefer for an innocent girl to get raped than a pregnant whore not being allowed to abort her fetus.
I like how you went anonymous to comment that cause you don't have the balls to comment on your own account. I consider rape one of the worst things that could ever happen to a person, I consider it worse than death (to me), so yeah if I actually had the choice to either abolish abortion or rape, I'd definitely choose rape even though I support abortion. And my comment is in no way ignorant hun, maybe you should learn what that word means first. I'm simply stating my opinion, and if you don't like it then either fuck off or give me a good reason Instead of just criticizing it.
I still wouldn't agree with abortion not being legal as I don't want to force anyone to carry a child, but too many poor girls get raped especially in less developed countries.
I feel like this question isn't really necessary to examine someone's political or social opinions. Given the choice between eliminating rape or legalizing abortion, we're given a situation which is in its entirety impossible. There isn't any way to stop rape, but we do have the option to legalize abortion. Saying "I would get rid of rape" would most likely be the more favorable answer, but it is impossible. Saying "I would legalize abortion" is possible, but it leads to a lot of traps. e.g. "So you're okay with rape?". In essence, this question faces me with a false dichotomy, seeing as I can't get rid of rape, but I have to choose that option. If I say that I'd have abortion, it means I am okay with rape, but if I choose eliminating rape, it seems as though I'm against abortion.
Pro life checking in: 2% of abortions are a result of rape. 7% are because of possible health defects. The other 91% are a result of irresponsibility, poor decisions, and pressure put on the carrier by family and the significant other.
Abortion is a very tricky topic for me, it's hard for me to say exactly where I stand. But if I was pro choice I would have voted yes to this post, and here's why. A pregnant woman chose to have sex, knowing she'd face the risk of becoming pregnant. A rape victim however, did not willingly have sex and would have to live with the damage from something that wasn't in any way her fault. In the case of a regular pregnancy, it IS her fault (well, 50% her fault) and therefore I feel she deserves to face consequences for a mistake SHE made over a rape victim who's situation was NOT her fault at all. Yes, going through an unwanted pregnancy would be hard both physically and emotionally. But rape is just as damaging, if not more, and it's not like rape victims have any control or say in their situation. Anyone can decide not to have sex, nobody can decide not to get raped. I might be biased in this because I've experienced one end and not the other, but I definitely think I deserve not to have sex if I don't want to over being able to abort a baby I mistakenly conceived.
So what I'm getting from a lot of these comments is that I'm never allowed to have sex.
I've had an abortion. The condom broke, and I took Plan B less than 6 hours later, but I still got pregnant.
When I was a teenager I shattered all of the vertebrae in my upper back, and am now unable to carry have a baby. I might survive the pregnancy on bed rest, but there is an enormous chance I would die during labour.
Add to it that when I found out I was pregnant I also was unable to work, it would make no sense to have a child even if my life wasn't at risk.
People who have an abortion don't usually take it lightly. It is traumatizing.
I used protection, and when that failed I tried to keep from getting pregnant. An abortion WAS the only means left for me.
Unfortunately people are so quick to judge. The only people in real life to know about my abortion are my family and now-husband (who would have been the father of the baby).
We still grieve but I do not regret it.
People should realize that abortion is never the "easy way out", it is just sometimes the least worst option.
$10 says you've never raped someone before. If you had, you would know how fun it is.
Anyways, I definitely didn't love my own comment. It's obvious that people just agree with me rather than you and your FemiNazi idea that "rape is bad." And I'm not sure who AppAwesome is, but the fact that you put "Also" as an entire fucking sentence makes me question your intelligence. Perhaps your limited knowledge is what allowed feminists to corrupt you with their absurd viewpoints.
Why is everyone so bootybothered? He's giving his opinion of the post. Scroll past. Harper's just giving his opinion too, but there are other people that just get mad. Y u mad.
I just think it is kind of ridiculous for you to call something rape that was entirely a result of someones irresponsibility, whereas actual rape is in no way shape or form the victim's fault. A rape victim is called a victim for a reason. Have you ever heard of someone giving birth to their child they conceived, whether they were ready to have a baby or not, a victim? Because I haven't.
How is it not? If you have unprotected sex knowing the risks and you become pregnant, it is your fault for not taking proper precautions. We all know having sex can result in pregnancy, and pregnancy results in giving birth to a child......
@enrique: That does not excuse rape. And what about people who are raped by their friend, or their boyfriend or spouse? It can be a completely sober event between people who knew or even trusted each other. There is no way to prevent that therefore it is not the victims fault.
i was not referring to date rape, in which case self defense can help, and although it does not excuse rape, it can prevent rape in many cases, taking the pracaution
"If you have unprotected sex knowing the risks and you become pregnant" Going out into public belligerently drunk, alone, or dressed excessively provocatively all carry risks of being raped or sexually harassed, people still accept those risks and do it anyways
I just think it's completely unfair that someone can make a baby willingly, and then choose whether or not to keep it. In my eyes, you're killing a baby and that's wrong, to me. Not only that, but it's REALLY hard on women that have abortions. They're NEVER the same. The only time I think that abortion is okay is when the woman is raped. But that's just my opinion, and women are sadly still going to get raped. Having said that, it's not up to me as to whether other people get abortions, I just think the only time they are okay is if the women has been raped.
I think you should have to be ready for a baby to have sex. People know the consequences of having sex, and one of them is pregnancy. I don't care if you're using birth control, it's not 100% effective. The only thing that is 100% effective is abstinence. I don't believe in the whole attitude of doing whatever you want whenever you want with no regard to consequences. The right of the mother should in no way trump the right of the child who had absolutely no choice in whether or not he or she was conceived.
I wasn't trying to shame or judge anyone, and I don't really think my comment came across that way. I agree that people have the right to have sex whenever they want, and I'm not trying to stop them. I'm simply saying use common sense. If you aren't ready for the responsibility of a child, then don't choose to participate in what is literally the only activity that can lead to pregnancy. If you want to have sex, fine, go for it, have a good time. But be aware that there are potential consequences that you're going to have to deal with, and it's unfair to punish an innocent unborn child just because you wanted to have some fun without thinking it through first.
Exactly.. like I'm just saying prevent it before it happens. You're going to be badly affected either way and there's no reason, in my opinion, aside from rape, for the woman to get an abortion. Just my opinion.
No, it was just a thought. But a 24 year old would most likely be in a better position to take care of a baby if she did become pregnant, whereas a 16 year old wouldn't be. The 24 year old has more maturity and life experience, and is most likely out of school and has a better idea of what they are doing with their life. That point is mainly in reference to teenagers getting pregnant in high school still living with their parents without steady income etc.
People do have the rights to have sex, and if that's what you want to do then fine, and if that 16 year old thinks she's ready to have sex then she can suffer the consequences if something goes wrong. Everyone knows that sex can produce a baby and contraception is never 100% effective.
Technically until she is 18 her body is still the property of her parents. But regardless, I am not telling you that you're wrong, I totally understand your point. People are going to have sex whether they are ready for kids or not. And I know that I probably have a biased view on this argument because of some of the things I've been through. I just think that although the option of abstinence isn't ideal for most people, it still is an option. Abortion is in no way the only option.
The rape can cause mental trauma and some physical harm sure, but when someone not ready to have a baby has a baby then both the life of the mother and the child lives will be ruined.
Yiu can put the baby up or adoption but you would have to deal with the social issues of being bullied and people generally thinking bad of you for getting pregnant.
As someone who's seen members of my family go through a semi open adoption, I can tell you adoption isn't all that great, assuming the child even gets adoption.
Yeah, but the dirty looks you get everywhere you go as a pregnant teen can't feel good. It seems like more people would be sympathetic of someone who was raped, but not someone who got pregnant. People who get raped wouldn't even need everyone to know.
You can always put a baby up for adoption. Going through pregnancy you don't want and getting raped are both going to be very traumatic, but if I had to choose I'd pick the pregnancy. I've never been through them both, but if I had to choose I'd eliminate rape.
I say no because people get abortions for many reasons other than rape, like health complications, money issues, maybe the couple isn't ready or old enough, and as much as I wish rape would never ever happen I wouldn't want to compromise women's health issues
^^ This.
I don't see this as a fair trade-off. I should have a right to my personal safety and to my personal reproductive health. Why should I have to sacrifice one for the other?
Dressing modestly and not getting drunk isn;t going to stop you from getting raped. Self defense MIGHT help you fight off the rapist though.
When I was raped, I was drugged and then left alone by the people who went out drinking with me. Also, I wasn't dressed provocatively. Not my any standard. So how about you stop victim-blaming and start looking at the slime who won't take 'no' for an answer?
I don't think the post is trying to say that you should have to pick one. I think the point of the post is to see which of the two rights people value the most. But yes, in a perfect world there wouldn't be any rape and nobody would even get pregnant who didn't want to
Exactly. I was raped too and it had nothing to do with me being out of control drunk or dressing provocatively or not knowing how to defend myself. It's not something you expect or can plan ahead to avoid. Anyone who tries to place blame on the victim is very very wrong.
But there are other options for women to avoid getting pregnant in the first place. It's not that people would even have to compromise women's health, they just don't want to compromise their sex lives. If someone is too young or wouldn't be able to raise a child they should either be using protection or birth control or shouldn't have sex at all. A rape victim can't plan ahead to avoid the physical and emotional damage that comes with rape, they are pretty much helpless.
If you take proper precautions you can avoid rape, suchas never becoming belligerently drunk, train in some sort of self-defense, dress modestly, and always have a friend near-by rape would become very difficult and much less likely to happen
This feels like some stupid trap, "OH SO YOU'RE OKAY WITH RAPE THEN HUH?". Although maybe I'm taking it the wrong way.
You can't fix rape. You can't fix violence, drug addiction, war, racism, anything of that sort. It is in our nature and that tends to be ignored when "feel-good, highly idealistic plans our ignored".
The best you can do, I feel, is to prepare people and make it harder for rapists to find their victims.
With violence, you can promote, at a young age, a strong concept of right and wrong and teach kids how to control their impulses and redirect their anger/emotions elsewhere. Racism can be approached in a similar way, as can drug addiction.
Stealing on the other hand is harder to control due to some people needing food and other stuff to survive.
Anyway, my point is that although these tendencies can't be eliminated, you can give people more tools to deal with and help control their urges.
At least that's what I think.
too bad youre on anonymous; i would totally follow you
It's not a trap, though I would like to know the reasons of those that have voted no way.
There's actually a primitive society where the father will build his daughter a sex hut outside of the house when the girl is as young as 13. They have never heard of someone forcing someone else to have sex. A girl invites a boy in to talk, and they make the decision to have sex or not. In countries where almost everyone owns a gun, there's hardly any gun crimes. In Chicago where they have strict gun laws and hardly anyone has a gun, the gun deaths are higher than in Afghanistan. You may not be able to %100 fix something, but by eliminating the taboo related to it the problem goes down significantly.
A: Even if I didn't have a plan, I wouldn't want to take away anyone's right if I didn't have to.
B: I have a plan for reducing rape as much as possible, but I don't want to get in to it because it's a whole cluster-fuck of changes in legislation and this country's attitude towards stuff.
Please tell.
As you said, your plan might work in a perfect world. However, your guns plan would certainly result in someone misusing their gun, which could lead to disaster. Also, I agree that it would be smart for women to be careful about rapists, but as a society, we should teach men not to rape, not teach women not to get raped.
Even though I disagree with a lot of your plan, I have to give you credit for putting so much thought into making our society better
Perhaps in a perfect world this would be fine, but it's not a perfect world. It's just stupid and irresponsible to do whatever without any sort of precaution.
Actually that's not true, there was a study done where they asked rapists if they remembered what their victim was wearing and most of them didn't, the clothing wasn't a motivation it was more about opportunity (especially considering the majority of rape victims knew their attacker already). People wearing all sorts of clothes get raped even in countries that by law require women to be dressed modestly there are high number of rapes.
@Enrique - I didn't say that you said it was their fault, just letting you know clothing vary rarely has anything to do with rape.
@John - Holy Jesus no there is never a situation in rape where they victim is to blame. That kind of thinking is what stops people reporting their attacks. I can not count how many times I have been blind drunk but I have never been raped, because I was not around a rapist.
I was satisfied with the legitimacy of that link for the town, and the way you backed up your argument, but while people bring more open to guns and getting trained sounds positive I think passing law that says you MUST have a gun in the household is extreme. A family who believes in pacifism and tries to pass on the ideals to their children that violence is never the answer should not have to, by law, become hypocrites in their children's eyes.
Haha, I actually meant that people wouldn't have to be careful in a perfect world. My plan would probably be the best we can do at the moment. People aren't likely to misuse their gun if it's registered and would be tracked down instantly, especially if the person they would use it against also has one. There's actually a town in the U.S. that follows that line of gun law, and it has one of the lowest crime rates in this country.
What town?
http://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41196/
I have heard of that. What I've never heard of was a massacre in a place where anyone else had a firearm. Massacres occur in GUN FREE ZONES.
And yeah, it is great. People need to take responsibility for their actions. That's what we've begun to lose as a species, and we think there's always someone else to blame.
Fuck, all I wanted to do was point out that John said "some of the blame". I don't think he is advocating either victim blaming or that the woman bears any responsibility all the time. I'll be the first to acknowledge that in probably the majority of cases, the man simply overpowered her and there is nothing she could do. I hate losing the original point of my comment. Sorry!
@Mike_Hawk: I disagreed until you added that second comment, because although there may be a few cases where the victim could've done something differently that could've prevented rape from happening, in MOST cases it is simply that the girl was over powered and there was nothing she could do. I am glad that you added that in.
http://ctrlv.in/111989
Perhaps it is a little extreme. In fact, it crosses the boundary of me not wanting to tell people what to do.
However, I would like owning a firearm to be largely encouraged, and it'd be nice to see them as common household tools.
And probably a low rate of gun ownership.
Look, I don't want anyone thinking I was suggesting that wearing skimpy clothing and such are major factors when it comes to rape. I still believe that they play a role in at least a small percentage of rapes, and every little bit helps when it comes to trying to solve the problem.
I never said it is the person's fault, I'm stating that you could take preventative measures in the case that SOMEONE does get raped, the chances of it being you are greatly reduced
I'm gonna have to back up John in this debate, solely because he said "some of the blame". I don't think rape would ever be 100% the woman's fault; the criteria for rape prevent that. However, I think there are situations in which SOME of the blame lies with the victim. Rapists exist, that's a fact some people seem to refuse to acknowledge. Skimpy clothing draws attention from more men, and alcohol makes people less able to do ANYTHING. While they are of course not invitations for rape, they paint one as a more likely target and facilitate a much easier rape. Every actions entails risk, and we accept those risks whether or not we want to. If you drive to a bad neighborhood with a nice car, leave it unlocked, and visit a frown for a while, it will probably be stolen. It wasn't your fault, but perhaps it wouldn't have happened if you took any sort of precaution. I'm not even suggesting that it would be any large percentage, but I'm willing to bet money that there are rapes that could have been prevented if a factor or two changed. Perhaps the woman dressed more modestly and her rapist didn't notice her, or perhaps she wasn't so drunk and he didn't think she was vulnerable.
Fantastic Mike. That was exactly the point I was trying to get across and that was a solid metaphor.
I'm really bad at communicating thoughts, so I've become really good at using metaphors and similes to convey my ideas. I just realized that I fucked up and autocorrect changed my attempt at spelling "friend" in to "frown". I hate silly mistakes like that.
Firstly i agree drugs need to be legalised, but wow okay so your solution to LOWER crime is to train and give people guns?! Ever heard of the virginia tech massacre? And put more responsibility on the victim... wow, yeah that's really great. Instead of teaching people if they wear a miniskirt they'll get raped, how about teaching people that a girl in a mini skirt is not an invitation for rape?
Spearmint- For some reason you have the view rape is this drunk innocent slutty dressed young girl minding her own business when a shady trench coat guy jumps on her from the alley and does what he does. What about the countless cases where a girl irresponsibly dresses like a whore, gets stupid drunk, and then sloppily has sex with a guy at a party. The next day she hears about it and charges the innocent guy with rape. He is immediately charged with likely jail time because "She's the girl so she's right and innocent, he's a man so shame on him for defiling her" when the guy just thought he was having sex. I know a friend of mine who's cousin went through that. Three different people said that the "victim" who was very drunk, pulled him into her lap, undid his pants, and hopped on him ( He was quite drunk too). But in the morning she went to the police and maintained that she has a boyfriend and would never cheat so she was raped with her guard down. My friends cousin was found guilty of rape and got either 12 or 18 months I forget.
Maybe clothing might not be of importance, but blind drunk and irresponsibly out if control is very occasionally a factor which leaves some of the blame on said victim.
Yeah, I agree that only a rapist is going to rape someone, but they are much more likely to rape a girl dressed provocatively at a party who is hammered than to rape the sober, modestly dressed girl.
Well, of course my first solution to absolutely anything is to legalize drugs. That's a drop in crime right there, and it frees up a lot of police force for working on other crime. If the police are more adept at catching criminals, people will be discouraged from committing crime.
Second on the list is a change in how we view guns as a country. We need to get rid of the fear-mongering, and perhaps even start to encourage more responsible citizens to own firearms. We can also eliminate things such as gun-free zones. After this has been in effect for a bit, we could start imposing laws the require every capable household to own a gun, and every capable citizen be trained in how to operate a firearm. People will be able to defend themselves against rape, instead of just kinda hoping it doesn't happen.
Finally, we just need to start teaching responsibility. Now, I'm not all about victim-blaming, but I'm a firm believer that in most situations, everyone takes some blame. It kinda makes me mad when people say a person should be able to wear whatever they want, be as intoxicated as they want, and walk wherever they want at whatever time and alone without worrying.
I would, if I had the right to decide (I'm a guy), abort based on what I would want for myself. For example, I would not want to live with Down's Syndrome, so I would abort my kid if he was going to be born with Down Syndrome. I would not want to live with the fact that the only reason for my existence is some asshole assaulting and fucking my mom, so I would abort my kid if he was a rape baby too. Etc, etc.
There is nothing wrong with abortion so long as it is in the proper period during pregnancy where the fetus isn't for the most part a developed human. But if you're only talking about abortions where the fetus is, then it's an extremely easy yes, for me.
Pretty sure that's already illegal, unless going through with the birth puts the mother at great risk.
Plus, a world where people's inalienable rights can just be stripped of them like that is hardly a better trade-off for the current world at hand. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"
I've never experienced either, but from an outside prospective it seems like being forced to have sex and being forced to give birth would be equally damaging.
Maybe, maybe, if I could somehow get rid of the issues that drive other women to get abortions.
Okay, here's my reasoning:
-Not being raped is a more fundamental human right than access to abortion, especially when it comes to bodily autonomy and security
-Not everyone that gets raped will want to abort, or to give birth, so forcing them to pick one of these options would be traumatizing
-Safety from this kind of violence would be extremely liberating for all women
-Rape includes coercion and statuatory rape
-Rape affects people from many groups (women, men, and children)
-Rape also affects people from all parts of the world, including people sold into sex slavery --> These people don't do this of their own free will, so sex slavery would end
-And like, a ton more reasons.
We should definitely be able to end this on our own outside of a hypothetical question, but this post is asking which one would you eliminate right now.
(The reason I pitted the two options together is because rape is always a touchy subject in abortion debates.)
I can see your reasoning, but I still wouldn't change my vote.
Spearmintmilk-
To add to your 2nd retort, the leading cause of death for pregnant women is by murder; the leading cause of death in 15-19 year old girls is pregnancy/childbirth.
That was basically a list of the reasons you think rape is bad. Only one of those points actually compared the issue of rape to the issue of abortion.
I don't think anyone has made the argument that rape is a good thing...
@awesome_personified
Rape is absolutely NOT more of a right than abortion. The implications to such a concept being true are so staggering that I don't think you even know what you're saying
A right human right is a human right there is not more of a right.
Well I think I am more entitled to not have sex if I don't want to then I am to abort a fetus that I accidentally conceived. I don't see how anyone can argue against this.
Rape is more of a right than abortion because women did have a choice not to have sex (providing rape didn't exist) and so had more choice than the victim of rape. But I do think both should be a right.
@unicorns: By rape I think awesome_personified meant the right to not having sex if they don't want to, which definitely should be more of a right than abortion
@first reply Access to abortion isnt a fundamental human right...human rights are meant to be considered as the natural rights of a person (based on moral grounds), and last time i checked, abortion, intentionally killing a baby, is not a natural process. Miscarriage, yes. Abortion, not a chance. If anything, the only human rights which are violated during an abortion is the unborn child's right to life.
I say no because of personal experience. I accidentally got pregnant because the condom broke, not because of rape, and I'm not emotionally prepared to go through pregnancy in college, let alone have a kid at 18. Plus it wouldn't be fair to my kid, not just because he'd have an irresponsible 18 year old mother, but because he'd be half cat.
What the fuck is wrong with you??? Omg this thread is too much to handle.
CLASSIC FAVVKES
...dafuq did i just read? O.o
I can't stop laughing. What. Just... what.
Favvkes, I'd like to tell you a little story, it's called "Go The Fuck To Sleep"
You're 18?
Oh wow. Just. God.
It's a little disconcerting that someone is fapping to my profile pic
No actually i'm flattered
FAP ON, good sir!
Hey! Don't speak for all of us! Some of us don't care!
This was a fun little read! I wish it didn't have to end.
It doesn't have to. Fap on, folks.
What's the story?
FAVVKES HAD SEX!?!?...with a cat?
Hmm I wonder what Kitty style would be. It'd probably just be one person going down and licking every part of the their partner's body, then gagging some hair out.
Well it's a little disconcerting that I've been fapping to pictures of someone 15 years younger than me...
I had to say no, because being raped and having a baby when the situation is totally wrong are equally life destroying.
Pro-choice doesn't mean you're in favour of abortion. It means you're in favour of it being the mother's choice.
I think people can still reserve the right to have an abortion even if it wasn't from rape.
Am I the only one waiting to see what AppAwesome has to say about this one?
Yes, I believe you are.
Yeah, it's definitely not the "waiting in anticipation" kind of wait, but more like "what kind of bullshit will they say this time?"
Ah, okay, I understand then.
I don't think this question should even be answered. Here's why
First: there is no way you could just eliminate rape. That already makes it a moot question.
Second: yeah you'll say "oh it's just a hypothetical. It doesn't need to be practical". Bullshit. It's a way to try to start a debate. If someone says they wouldn't, you won't just say "okay interesting"
Third: rape isn't the only reason for abortion. There's the concern of not being able to raise it (sure. Adoption is a better choice, but it's still a reason). There's also times when birth could pose significant health risk to the mother and/or child.
I may or may not continue to debate replies to this depending on how lazy I feel.
Sounds good then. I just don't think it's a fair question.
I've already decided not to participate in the debate so I might as well be saying "okay interesting."
As for your third point, it doesn't really matter how related the two are. The post just asks if the trade-off is worth it.
I'm not too fond of this post simply because it is purely hypothetical, meaning that no real applicable conclusion can be made. However, I made it to see how people would vote if one of the major controversies in the abortion dilemma could be eliminated.
I thought about this post for a while before finally deciding what I think.
I support abortion and believe it should be the woman's decision whether she wants to abort or not, and think it's better for a fetus to have been aborted than for a kid to live miserable his whole life either in an orphanage or living his life knowing his mom/parents were gonna abort him and/or hate him.
BUT think about it this way:
A rape victim didn't choose to have sex, while a normal pregnant woman did. So she deserves the consequences much more than a rape victim does; now a rape victim doesn't always end up getting pregnant, but even if she didn't, that incident would still affect her whole life, physically and emotionally.
Rape is much more terrible than being pregnant; 9 months and you'll get over it, then you can put your baby up for adoption, or who knows you might end up wanting to keep your baby; but a raped man/woman/child, will have to live with that for the rest of their life.
The thing that made me consider NWing this is a woman whose health and life might be affected by the baby's birth, but I still agree with this post.
I know right? Some people think that rape is just this forced sex, and is only terrible during, well, ~it~, but it's much more worse than that. That person may never consider having sex ever again, will be afraid to be even touched on the shoulders, and the incident will haunt them forever, and who knows what else.
I pretty much agree with what you said. Especially about how a raped person will have to live with it their whole life
Exactly!!!! I agree especially with the part about the normal pregnant woman deserving the consequences over the rape victim. I feel like people are over looking the fact that these women WILLINGLY had sex knowing they could get pregnant whereas the rape victim obviously did not choose it.
I know right; everyone's always like "it should be the mother's decision to abort or not", but like she could have decided before having sex. But no, apparently for some people, they prefer for an innocent girl to get raped than a pregnant whore not being allowed to abort her fetus.
I like how your comment is so ****ed up, ignorant, and judgmental even the person who agrees with you didn't reply.
I like how you went anonymous to comment that cause you don't have the balls to comment on your own account. I consider rape one of the worst things that could ever happen to a person, I consider it worse than death (to me), so yeah if I actually had the choice to either abolish abortion or rape, I'd definitely choose rape even though I support abortion. And my comment is in no way ignorant hun, maybe you should learn what that word means first. I'm simply stating my opinion, and if you don't like it then either fuck off or give me a good reason Instead of just criticizing it.
I still wouldn't agree with abortion not being legal as I don't want to force anyone to carry a child, but too many poor girls get raped especially in less developed countries.
I feel like this question isn't really necessary to examine someone's political or social opinions. Given the choice between eliminating rape or legalizing abortion, we're given a situation which is in its entirety impossible. There isn't any way to stop rape, but we do have the option to legalize abortion. Saying "I would get rid of rape" would most likely be the more favorable answer, but it is impossible. Saying "I would legalize abortion" is possible, but it leads to a lot of traps. e.g. "So you're okay with rape?". In essence, this question faces me with a false dichotomy, seeing as I can't get rid of rape, but I have to choose that option. If I say that I'd have abortion, it means I am okay with rape, but if I choose eliminating rape, it seems as though I'm against abortion.
Pro life checking in: 2% of abortions are a result of rape. 7% are because of possible health defects. The other 91% are a result of irresponsibility, poor decisions, and pressure put on the carrier by family and the significant other.
Sources: http://ihoppe.com/blog/?p=3445
http://www.frc.org/brochure/the...ular-audiences (this site uses numbers from pro-choice research by the Guttmacher Institute)
That's actually a great concept.
Not that it will ever be achieved, unfortunutely.
Abortion is a very tricky topic for me, it's hard for me to say exactly where I stand. But if I was pro choice I would have voted yes to this post, and here's why. A pregnant woman chose to have sex, knowing she'd face the risk of becoming pregnant. A rape victim however, did not willingly have sex and would have to live with the damage from something that wasn't in any way her fault. In the case of a regular pregnancy, it IS her fault (well, 50% her fault) and therefore I feel she deserves to face consequences for a mistake SHE made over a rape victim who's situation was NOT her fault at all. Yes, going through an unwanted pregnancy would be hard both physically and emotionally. But rape is just as damaging, if not more, and it's not like rape victims have any control or say in their situation. Anyone can decide not to have sex, nobody can decide not to get raped. I might be biased in this because I've experienced one end and not the other, but I definitely think I deserve not to have sex if I don't want to over being able to abort a baby I mistakenly conceived.
Well, based on my argument I feel like it should be pretty obvious, I just didn't want to come right out and say it
Which have you experienced? Just curious as to which way your opinion may be biased.
So what I'm getting from a lot of these comments is that I'm never allowed to have sex.
I've had an abortion. The condom broke, and I took Plan B less than 6 hours later, but I still got pregnant.
When I was a teenager I shattered all of the vertebrae in my upper back, and am now unable to carry have a baby. I might survive the pregnancy on bed rest, but there is an enormous chance I would die during labour.
Add to it that when I found out I was pregnant I also was unable to work, it would make no sense to have a child even if my life wasn't at risk.
People who have an abortion don't usually take it lightly. It is traumatizing.
I used protection, and when that failed I tried to keep from getting pregnant. An abortion WAS the only means left for me.
Unfortunately people are so quick to judge. The only people in real life to know about my abortion are my family and now-husband (who would have been the father of the baby).
We still grieve but I do not regret it.
People should realize that abortion is never the "easy way out", it is just sometimes the least worst option.
Why? If you're pro-life, don't you already want abortion to be outlawed?
If that is how you see it, then you should agree anyways because if there was no rape then there would be no need for abortions for victims of rape.
$5 says you loved your own comment. Also. I think you're a worse person than AppAwesome.
$10 says you've never raped someone before. If you had, you would know how fun it is.
Anyways, I definitely didn't love my own comment. It's obvious that people just agree with me rather than you and your FemiNazi idea that "rape is bad." And I'm not sure who AppAwesome is, but the fact that you put "Also" as an entire fucking sentence makes me question your intelligence. Perhaps your limited knowledge is what allowed feminists to corrupt you with their absurd viewpoints.
I bet women are just lining up for a piece of you.
Don't feed the troll.
That's with gremlins after midnight, silly.
7/10. Not one-sided, as the Agree/disagree isn't like 90%+. Is an opinion, kinda, but not funny. Good job.
Don't encourage him...
I'm honored.
I don't like his opinion of a great post. A great post doesn't HAVE to be funny.
I rate this rating a 5/10 because Neil Armstrong died yesterday.
Why is everyone so bootybothered? He's giving his opinion of the post. Scroll past. Harper's just giving his opinion too, but there are other people that just get mad. Y u mad.
In my opinion, it does.
AppAwesome, I officially name you Amirite's Local Critic.
Congratulations!
I now imagine you looking like this: http://ctrlv.in/112028
Why? I don't mind his post rating. Keep it up AppAwesome!!!
I don't quite understand this post. May somebody explain?
Good Guy Favvkes, helping the world one poor soul at a time.
Well you see, it's asking pro-choicers if they would completely eliminate rape in exchange of abolishing abortion
I'm sorry but I am going to have to share my opinion and say, this is the dumbest POTD ever..
Ok maybe not ever
We'll have dumber POTDs in the futer.
I see what you did there
Being forced to give birth is rape. The pregnant person's vagina will have to be penetrated multiple times during pregnancy and labor.
But it wasn't rape when she willingly had sex and got pregnant in the first place......
Consent to have sex is not consent to give birth.
Pregnancy doesn't have to result in giving birth. Abortion exists.
I have heard people who have been forced to give birth called victims. You wouldn't call someone who had to give birth against their will a victim?
Yes, it was.
I just think it is kind of ridiculous for you to call something rape that was entirely a result of someones irresponsibility, whereas actual rape is in no way shape or form the victim's fault. A rape victim is called a victim for a reason. Have you ever heard of someone giving birth to their child they conceived, whether they were ready to have a baby or not, a victim? Because I haven't.
How is it not? If you have unprotected sex knowing the risks and you become pregnant, it is your fault for not taking proper precautions. We all know having sex can result in pregnancy, and pregnancy results in giving birth to a child......
@zombie: If she was raped, yes.
@enrique: That does not excuse rape. And what about people who are raped by their friend, or their boyfriend or spouse? It can be a completely sober event between people who knew or even trusted each other. There is no way to prevent that therefore it is not the victims fault.
What about before it was legalized, was giving birth to unwanted babies "rape" then?
i was not referring to date rape, in which case self defense can help, and although it does not excuse rape, it can prevent rape in many cases, taking the pracaution
"If you have unprotected sex knowing the risks and you become pregnant" Going out into public belligerently drunk, alone, or dressed excessively provocatively all carry risks of being raped or sexually harassed, people still accept those risks and do it anyways
I just think it's completely unfair that someone can make a baby willingly, and then choose whether or not to keep it. In my eyes, you're killing a baby and that's wrong, to me. Not only that, but it's REALLY hard on women that have abortions. They're NEVER the same. The only time I think that abortion is okay is when the woman is raped. But that's just my opinion, and women are sadly still going to get raped. Having said that, it's not up to me as to whether other people get abortions, I just think the only time they are okay is if the women has been raped.
Women are also NEVER the same if they have to shove a baby out of their vagina and give it to someone else. Or keep it. Your life changes either way
I think you should have to be ready for a baby to have sex. People know the consequences of having sex, and one of them is pregnancy. I don't care if you're using birth control, it's not 100% effective. The only thing that is 100% effective is abstinence. I don't believe in the whole attitude of doing whatever you want whenever you want with no regard to consequences. The right of the mother should in no way trump the right of the child who had absolutely no choice in whether or not he or she was conceived.
I wasn't trying to shame or judge anyone, and I don't really think my comment came across that way. I agree that people have the right to have sex whenever they want, and I'm not trying to stop them. I'm simply saying use common sense. If you aren't ready for the responsibility of a child, then don't choose to participate in what is literally the only activity that can lead to pregnancy. If you want to have sex, fine, go for it, have a good time. But be aware that there are potential consequences that you're going to have to deal with, and it's unfair to punish an innocent unborn child just because you wanted to have some fun without thinking it through first.
Exactly.. like I'm just saying prevent it before it happens. You're going to be badly affected either way and there's no reason, in my opinion, aside from rape, for the woman to get an abortion. Just my opinion.
You said absolutely nothing about being preventitive.
No, it was just a thought. But a 24 year old would most likely be in a better position to take care of a baby if she did become pregnant, whereas a 16 year old wouldn't be. The 24 year old has more maturity and life experience, and is most likely out of school and has a better idea of what they are doing with their life. That point is mainly in reference to teenagers getting pregnant in high school still living with their parents without steady income etc.
People do have the rights to have sex, and if that's what you want to do then fine, and if that 16 year old thinks she's ready to have sex then she can suffer the consequences if something goes wrong. Everyone knows that sex can produce a baby and contraception is never 100% effective.
Abstinence is 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. If they aren't ready for a baby perhaps they aren't ready for sex. Just a thought.
Technically until she is 18 her body is still the property of her parents. But regardless, I am not telling you that you're wrong, I totally understand your point. People are going to have sex whether they are ready for kids or not. And I know that I probably have a biased view on this argument because of some of the things I've been through. I just think that although the option of abstinence isn't ideal for most people, it still is an option. Abortion is in no way the only option.
I said yes because I think the consequences of rape are worse than the consequences of being denied an abortion.
The rape can cause mental trauma and some physical harm sure, but when someone not ready to have a baby has a baby then both the life of the mother and the child lives will be ruined.
@zombiepants - What... what the fuck?
Your vagina is being forcibly penetrated during pregnancy and labor.
Yiu can put the baby up or adoption but you would have to deal with the social issues of being bullied and people generally thinking bad of you for getting pregnant.
As someone who's seen members of my family go through a semi open adoption, I can tell you adoption isn't all that great, assuming the child even gets adoption.
Yeah, but the dirty looks you get everywhere you go as a pregnant teen can't feel good. It seems like more people would be sympathetic of someone who was raped, but not someone who got pregnant. People who get raped wouldn't even need everyone to know.
How is giving forced to give birth? You can argue that's it's just as bad, but it's not the same.
There are social issues to getting raped too. Some women get called sluts and people say they were "asking for it."
You could make the argument that being forced to give birth is rape.
You can always put a baby up for adoption. Going through pregnancy you don't want and getting raped are both going to be very traumatic, but if I had to choose I'd pick the pregnancy. I've never been through them both, but if I had to choose I'd eliminate rape.