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If there's one thing Obama has done perfectly since becoming president, it's divide. Divide the American people along class lines and racial lines. Reagan spoke of "we" and "us." Obama is nothing but the blame game and "them," amirite?

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@1812223

I think the OP's point has been proven perfectly here.

Vitamin, there are hoards of other factors that go into a recession other than GDP. And of course Obama is going to say its over, that means votes. How about you ask someone of the working class who's paycheck has gone down since 2008 if the recession is over. Better yet, how about one of the millions of people at the unemployment office. Obama's policies have failed, are failing, and are going to keep failing if they aren't halted first. People talk about conservative policies pushing the country into this recession but they fail to recognize that Bush had the most liberal agenda of any conservative to ever to enter the white house. Basically his policies are just a scaled down version of what Obama is putting us through. Thus we can see why we have less jobs and higher unemployment now than when Bush left office. And if the recession is because of policies from 40 years ago how come we are just now seeing the effects as our two most socialized presidents enter the white house? There seems to be a little bit more to that story.

I don't think anyone with half a mind has ever said that we need to get rid of all regulations,

WinniethePoohs avatar WinniethePooh Yeah You Are +4Reply
@1812223

but even the most liberal person has to see, they're getting out of hand now. If you look at the regulatory codes for different sectors you'll see that they are driving costs for products and services upwards, thus killing jobs and innovation. Example: healthcare mandates force insurance providers to cover things that most people will never have a problem with, thus making coverage cost more for the provider and consumer without any benefit.

You talk about how the corporations are taking over and this is where you really are blind. Romney's campaign is funded by super pacs...Obama's is funded by special interest groups and corporations (Solyndra ring any bells?). The left wing politicians invented the idea of buying votes and they are still the best at it today. They found out early on that if you appeal to what people think they want, they'll be much more likely to come around. That's why the left is usually associated with welfare programs, etc. If you believe that Americas biggest problem is that the people don't have a voice anymore then you should toss your ballot away on someone who takes that power away.

WinniethePoohs avatar WinniethePooh Yeah You Are +4Reply
@1812223

And about taxes:

1) your graphs are flawed. There are many more things that contribute to recessions than one factor. For example, the Great depression wasn't cause by low taxes so much as expensive social programs. As a matter of fact you can see that economic growth was massive right before the crash (during the low taxes). Also Reagan had the largest economic growth in the latter half of the century and he lowered taxes extensively.

2) Your chart on "how taxes work" is also flawed. With a progressive tax rate, the wealthy don't have any money to reinvest in their business because it's all being taken away. They can't (or don't) just take a lesser personal portion because they've worked their hands to the bone to keep that wealth coming and it's unfair to punish them because of that. Not to mention that if they do actually take less for themselves and reinvest they lose the money to their company (which will also be taxes heavily since corporations are also the target of such tax plans) and he still has to pay huge taxes on the lesser amount the he still has. Anyway you look at it, everyone involved looses. And the other chart isn't what most conservatives have in mind anyway

WinniethePoohs avatar WinniethePooh Yeah You Are +4Reply
@1812223

And yes, you are right on. The republican "establishment" have refused to do things productive. They could do many things that would slow the tentacles of obamacare and even possibly stop it, but they don't, fearing the wrath of voters. This is the republican party's greatest weakness, and why America has slowly been slipping away to the democrats. This is also the reason the Tea Party was formed, to actually get some constitutional conservatives into congress to straighten things up.

Reagan_fans avatar Reagan_fan Yeah You Are +2Reply
@1812223

Thats also a good point. The policies that "saved" the economy are nothing more than a crutch for the country but are not healing the leg (bad analogy?)

All the stimulus is doing is temporarily creating wealth that is seen as opportunity for jobs, innovation, etc, but once the stimulus money runs out we have the same broken economy, the new jobs are outsourced, the innovation can't turn into invention, and we repeat the process tenfold. Sound familiar yet? This is a play by play of what's happened to America over the past four years and is a blueprint of what will happen should Obama get reelected.

WinniethePoohs avatar WinniethePooh Yeah You Are +2Reply
@1812223

I don't think that you should call your opinion true and then laugh at people that disagree.

@1812223

Didn't obama have congress in his hands for 2 years. I'm sorry, my good man (or woman), your facts don't check up!

Reagan_fans avatar Reagan_fan Yeah You Are +1Reply
@1812223

when government involves itself in the economy and puts controls, as in an experiment, that make the economy move in one direction or another, it can lead to a overabundance, or bubble, that will eventually need to be corrected. The housing bubble was in a large part near zero interest rates that put a LOT of cheap money in the system. Wall Street, wanting to get an advantage over their competitors, happily lopped up the free credit and pushed it onto consumers. I like to say they got "drunk" on credit and still are to some extent.

YouTube video thumbnail

About taxes:

YouTube video thumbnail

Is the math your talking about REAL math or european math, because I and most americans do not want european style debt, european style economics, regulation, fake economics, fake economies, E.T.C.

and please explain your accusation on the tea party.

Reagan_fans avatar Reagan_fan Yeah You Are +1Reply
@1812223

You did a great job, Winnie, But I wanted to go into more depth on the recession. It is true that the recession is officially over, but what I mean is because obama's policies just delay the coming economic collapse when monetary stimulus runs out.

You need to stop thinking of corporations as people-like and more as machines. When they are not restrained, as in a normal free market, they will grow out of control. It is true that the banks made super risky offers, but this would not have happened in a normal free market. Think about it, when interest rates are low, people are encouraged to spend, and when interest rates are high, people are encouraged to save. When artificially low interest rates are super low. Consumers and businesses spend crazily. This creates what we call a bubble. The out of control spending, cannot go on forever, and the bubble bursts. Unfortunately, obama wants to create a phony economy where economic resources aren't going where they're supposed to go. This fake economy will eventually bust. 

This video should explain in more simplified terms

YouTube video thumbnail

Reagan_fans avatar Reagan_fan Yeah You Are +1Reply
@1812223

Obama's slogan in 08 was "Yes, we can," not "Yes he can." It required a collective effort. Republicans have used the filibuster more time than any Congress in the past, blocking some measures (like health care for 9/11 first responders) that the large majority of Americans of both political parties wanted. And the House has tried to repeal Obamacare 33 times now, instead of doing productive things, like focusing on jobs, or passing bills from the Senate that many third party economists have said would create thousands and thousands of jobs. All of this because they don't get every single point they want.

@1812223

For years, it has been known that the stronger the recession the stronger the recovery, but this is no longer the case! The 2008-? recession never truly ended, but has hit bottom and is staying there. Those few straight months of job growth are deceiving because they are not even high enough to overcome new entry's into the workforce. Not to mention the people who are leaving the workforce all together and withdrawing from society. luckily last month looked up a little bit, but still leaves us hoping and waiting that we may recover, despite obama's failed policies.

http://myheritage.org/news/thre...ng-job-growth/

The mess we have been in were not the work of republican policies, but were not recognized by the republicans soon enough. You seem to be forgetting that Bush was the one that started the bailouts, he contributed to the economic downturn by doing exactly what the democrats wanted.

The economic downturn, though, was in a large part because of the fed manipulating interest rates. If you lined your graph up with interest rate manipulation, you would see quite a correspondence. Recessions accur because the markets are correcting themselves.

Reagan_fans avatar Reagan_fan Yeah You Are 0Reply
@1812223

The recession is actually over, that isn't debateable. Recession is define as three+ quarters of GDP loss. That ended in the middle of last year. Obama's policies are working. Working. Present tense. Not worked, past tense. They are still going, and now, with the Congressional gridlock, nothing is happening, so of course stuff is falling into the shitter.
Actually, the collapse is largely due to Republican policies, the policy of super deregulation (started by Reagan). This deregulation led to allow banks to make super risky offers, then when those failed, they banks collapsed. With more regulation, those banks would not have been able to make those bets, and would have collapsed. Regulations do NOT kill jobs, they help the consumer so that major corporations don't take over, which is what we are seeing in this country right now. This country is no longer "We the people", it is now "We the corporations." Yes, these are massively different.

@1812223

In regards to the viedo: about taxes:
Everything he said was well and good until the last line, in which he said the larger pie is created by lower rates. And then he gives no proof. There is no proof of that. No, taxes alone won't fix the deficit, but we do need more revenue, and serious discussion about growth and spending cuts is needed, and until Congressional gridlock is over and both sides are willing to compromise, that is probably not going to happen.
And if higher taxes don't help, then why is it that when tax rates on the top earners are the highest, the country does the best? See chart:
Image in content
The math I supplied (the graph) is neither American math or European math, as math is the same everywhere. It is good old fashioned common sense. If you disagree, please refute the contents of the graph.

@1812223

In the first two years, he was still cleaning up the mess that was left and he was quite successful, as now we have had many straight months of job growth. Why the Republicans got control I will never know. Their policies have gotten us into this mess and their obstruction prolonged it.
Hopefully the country goes back completely to the democrats, as they have ideas and policies that are backed by both math and history. See linked graphics:
History:
Image in content
Math:
Image in content
Tea party, constitutional? Please. One can say with relative certainty they haven't read the first amendment.

he's in high school so at least the retard can't vote, thank goodness. you weren't even alive when reagan was in office so you can shut up now. stop trying to have a political voice. the republicans are always going on about the "east coast elite" and "chicago politics" and the horrible elitist left. who's REALLY dividing america? the guy who grew up in a million dollar family or the guy who grew up in a middle class, single-parent home who understands what the majority of the country actually goes through? not mitt romney, who's wife drives a "couple of cadillacs".

I'll be voting in a couple of months, you won't be. How does it feel to have a voice that does not matter? =D

Anonymous -8Reply
Anonymous +3Reply
@he's in high school so at least the retard can't vote, thank goodness. you weren't even alive when reagan was in...

So you're basing your entire voice of opinion that contributes to the overall direction of your country on class relatability? That's not divisive at all. If anything I'd pick the wealthy candidate because it shows he knows how to create jobs and earn profits...just what the country needs right now. But I guess Obama can "relate" (what does that even mean?!)

WinniethePoohs avatar WinniethePooh Yeah You Are +3Reply
@he's in high school so at least the retard can't vote, thank goodness. you weren't even alive when reagan was in...

Its been proven that mitt Romney has created thousands of jobs, 100,000 to be exact.

You need to remember that a private equity firm's purpose is not to save jobs, but to save companies. Nonetheless, bain has created thousands of jobs in this country! Ever heard of staples?

Lol, you are also forgetting that the middle class is overwhelmingly conservative! The democrats do well with the extremely poor and the extremely rich, but not with the likes of you and me.

How does redistributing wealth help the middle class? As mitt Romney said in his RNC speech," I want to create tomorrow's prosperity, not redistribute today's."

Reagan_fans avatar Reagan_fan Yeah You Are +3Reply
@he's in high school so at least the retard can't vote, thank goodness. you weren't even alive when reagan was in...

1) What difference does it make what social class someone is from? If he can solve the problem why does it matter? And just because he isn't middle class doesn't mean he doesn't understand it...Obama grew up middle class but claims to understand the lower class. They have the most problems do why don't we elect a lower class president who understands them?

2) Whether they were foreign jobs or not he created them. And I think this is also another reason to vote Obama down: he has created such a terrible environment for businesses, large and small, to grow that they are forced to send their business elsewhere. It's going to continue until we get new leadership.

And you obviously are a perfect example of what the OP is talking about: you feel such unchangable hate for republicans that you vote democrat without ever thinking about what has happened the past four years. This is why the voting system is broken and America has been going, is now going, and will continue in the status quo, downhill.

Lol democrat!! XP

WinniethePoohs avatar WinniethePooh Yeah You Are +1Reply
@he's in high school so at least the retard can't vote, thank goodness. you weren't even alive when reagan was in...

Mitt Romney was born into a rich family. When he invested in Bain he was endowed under a huge safety net so he would have been rich regardless. and of course i base my vote off who understands the middle class. I am middle class, and so is most of the country.

oh and lol @ Mitt romney creating jobs. yeah I guess if you mean foreign jobs and outsourcing.

republicans crack me up XD

Anonymous -1Reply
@Mitt Romney was born into a rich family. When he invested in Bain he was endowed under a huge safety net so he...

You're also proving OP correct. You're speaking about the lower, middle and upper classes as if that should matter. Obama's done a great job of pitting the "social classes" against each other, when in reality social classes shouldn't exist in America.

kristins avatar kristin Yeah You Are 0Reply
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