+6

When someone says "I hate this person/ I love this person", that is a judgment of how good a person they are relative to other people.

88%Agree12%Disagree
Watchful_questioneers avatar Philosophy
Share
0 13

Not necessarily. It is possible to love or hate someone if there is nobody else around. I see where you are coming from, because you can love or hate someone more than other people, but I think it's possible to love or hate someone independent of other people.

@Mike_Hawk Not necessarily. It is possible to love or hate someone if there is nobody else around. I see where you are coming...

Well, if there were only one person in the universe you could judge your opinion of without the bias of another person, it would have to be yourself. We have opinions of ourselves that likely influence our opinions of others, so here's my question:
If you are and always were the only living person, or remnant of a living person (so no stories of other people, or information at all about any other living thing), would it be possible to love or hate yourself? Or have any opinion of yourself whatsoever?

@Watchful_questioneer Well, if there were only one person in the universe you could judge your opinion of without the bias of another...

That question is far too difficult for me to answer, but here is my best attempt.

It is impossible to form opinions without referencing anything, but it is impossible to have nothing to reference. It is impossible to quantify that opinion without something to compare it to, though. Say you lived your whole life in a state of oblivion. If your existence didn't bother you and you wouldn't mind continuing existing, it is arguable that you like yourself. You could not, however, describe how much you like yourself, because one value is completely useless without another. Following that, I agree with both of us. You can decide that you like/dislike someone independent of how you feel about others, but (assuming you view love/hate as modifiers of like/dislike rather than just another way of saying them), you could not say you love/hate someone without comparing it to how much you like/dislike others.

@Mike_Hawk That question is far too difficult for me to answer, but here is my best attempt. It is impossible to form...

I believe one could have enjoyment of their existence in such a state, or unhappiness, but I don't believe someone could judge whether they like themselves or not because that's something you need to judge in other people before you can judge in yourself. Perhaps one starts off with a default judgment of themselves which later changes, otherwise one could never begin to make the first judgment of anything else having no previous opinions to reference.

If that's the case, then that default judgment would be entirely arbitrary and solely exist for the purpose of being a judgment, therefore inaccurate, and not really a judgment that's made by a person, but rather born with innately. I don't think that would really count, therefore.

Maybe that judgment would be exactly in the middle of the love/hate like/dislike continuum, in which case you wouldn't really be able to change it, ever, without another reference.

@Watchful_questioneer I believe one could have enjoyment of their existence in such a state, or unhappiness, but I don't believe someone...

Then the entire discussion boils down to definitions. Clearly, you do not define "liking" as simply "enjoying". To me, that is all the term describes. To derive enjoyment out of something is to like it. It's less of a judgement, and more of a state of being. I like you regardless of whether or not I take the time to make a judgement about you. I enjoy your presence on this site, and that enjoyment is defined (by me) as me liking you.

When we take a look at how the mind works, I don't think it's possible for something to simply be. I don't think it's possible to have an innate judgement of something. If there is an idea/object to have a judgement on, it will either activate the neural pathways associated with pleasure or displeasure. This is why I think it possible to have an opinion without references.

I also think it will change. As humans, we develop "tolerances" to things, which is why we cannot do the same exact things forever without needing any change. Eventually, the idea of one's existence would begin to have less and less activation of pleasure pathways, and thus one would begin to dislike existing.

@Mike_Hawk Then the entire discussion boils down to definitions. Clearly, you do not define "liking" as simply "enjoying". To...

Well, I believe that enjoying something and liking it are different things. Enjoying something means it makes you feel happy, while liking something means you think it has a good effect on the rest of the world. For example, I enjoy a friend of mine because he's funny, but his humor is often offensive and mean to others, therefore I don't like him.

Maybe we start off indifferent to ourselves, then the first person we judge (usually a mother) we'll love. The question now is, "does loving someone else change how much we love ourselves?". I think it does. That's why, since we want to love ourselves as much as other people, we'll be kind in response to kindness.

I personally believe we remain the standard to ourselves throughout life, and we're kind to others to make us love ourselves more. Most often, people want to love themselves more than they love other people, and they'll do that in different ways. Some people will be really good people, others will ignore others' acts of kindness, and others will make excuses as to why other people are bad, and most find balance between the three.

Therefore, I think it is relative, and we begin indifferent to ourselves until we judge others.

@Mike_Hawk Then the entire discussion boils down to definitions. Clearly, you do not define "liking" as simply "enjoying". To...

And I think indifference if the only possible thing that can be considered an "innate judgment", because it's simply an absence of liking or disliking something. We only become aware of it once another person comes into our lives, which we judge relatively to our indifference to ourselves.

I don't love people compared to other people... I think you can have strong feelings for someone regardless of knowing other beings.

@Skr3wBall I don't love people compared to other people... I think you can have strong feelings for someone regardless of...

Well, would it be possible to have an opinion of yourself if you had no previous opinion of any other person to base it on? IF you never knew anyone, heard of anyone, heard about anyone, read any books, or anything?

@Watchful_questioneer Well, would it be possible to have an opinion of yourself if you had no previous opinion of any other person to...

I think I can form my own judgements about what treats me well and what doesn't. If my eyes dilate, my heart races faster than the normal pace and I get happier, I can't say I love that person without comparing it to another person? If they make me happy, I think I can say I like them... I don't have to know if I can like another person more or less to say that I like them.

@Skr3wBall I think I can form my own judgements about what treats me well and what doesn't. If my eyes dilate, my heart races...

Well, enjoying a person isn't the same as liking them. Enjoying them means they make you happy, but liking them means you actually think they're a good person. For example: I know a kid who is really funny, so I enjoy his persence, but his humor can be really offensive, so I don't like him (because I don't think he's a good person).

@Watchful_questioneer Well, enjoying a person isn't the same as liking them. Enjoying them means they make you happy, but liking them...

I don't dislike people solely because I dislike one quality of them. If I enjoy them, I like them. I enjoy what I like and like what I enjoy, they go hand in hand.

The Oxford American's Writers Thesaurs puts like as the first synonym of enjoy and vice versa.

@Skr3wBall I don't dislike people solely because I dislike one quality of them. If I enjoy them, I like them. I enjoy what I...

Even synonyms don't always have the exact same definition. There is a certain level of connotation attached to those words that isn't conveyed through a dictionary. I, personally, see liking someone as an opinion of how good a person they are, and I feel that such a judgment cannot be made without reference to another person, at least one's self if nobody else.

Please   login   or signup   to leave a comment.