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If you had concrete proof that there was no heaven and no hell, it would not change your definition of right and wrong, and it would not change your behavior toward others. Amirite?

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VicZincs avatar Religion
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The invention of religion (as in whether or not christianity is true, it still would have been created at some point) doesn't really create or define what is right and what is wrong, so much as it just takes humans' instinctual knowledge of good and bad and orders it into a pretty, bullet point format.

J_A_C_Ks avatar J_A_C_K Yeah You Are +5Reply
@J_A_C_K The invention of religion (as in whether or not christianity is true, it still would have been created at some...

Really? Wouldn't you agree that our backgrounds, families, and circumstances all affect what our weltanschuung (worldview.. sorry, have always wanted to use that word) is and ultimately our moral compass. By the logic you have just presented every man can do what is right in its own eyes. That means that there was nothing wrong with that man killing all those precious little children in December; or Hitler's attempt to annihilate millions of Jews, Africans, the handicapped, and any others he did not believe were the fittest to survive, or the rape of young girls, or the "honour" killing of woman. If the definition of right and wrong is simply "humans instinctual knowledge of good and bad" well, we end up with the world as it is today. The more we remove the Biblical foundations that many of our countries have been based upon and replace them with Marxism, rationalism, romanticism, and all the other isms that we have pulled out of our itty-bitty brains, the worse our society will become, and we will ultimately destroy ourselves.

thatsjustmiis avatar thatsjustmii Yeah You Are 0Reply
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@1907987

No breaking news to me. Nothing I haven't heard before. But the thing is, the Bible wasn't pulled out of the brains of men. It was inspired of God. Sure, the books were written by men, tell the stories of men, and was meant to be read by men, but every word in the Bible is ordained of God. Mulitple people mentioned in the Bible wrote books, but their words are not in the Bible because they were not inspired by God. True, many parallels can be seen with other Holy books, but the MAIN reason for the Bible is unparallel with other books. The Bible was written so that man can know that God sent Jesus Christ to redeem us seeing as we cannot redeem ourselves. All the other messages in God's Word like love, justice, relationships etc. are present in other Holy Books but those books were not inspired by God, the creator and Lord of this universe. And, the reason why a certain moral compass is present in these other books and in the minds of men is because God has made us in His image and so natural laws like committing murder and loving one another are, well, natural for us; but as time progresses and sin becomes more prevalent in society even certain natural laws are lost by some

thatsjustmiis avatar thatsjustmii Yeah You Are 0Reply
@thatsjustmii No breaking news to me. Nothing I haven't heard before. But the thing is, the Bible wasn't pulled out of the brains...

So if the Bible and Quran contain the exact same moral messages, then why would it make a difference even if the Bible was inspired by God? Clearly this "inspiration" didn't effect the content (regarding morality) of the Bible too much, otherwise these moral messages would not draw similarities with other Holy Books.

"The Bible was written so that man can know that God sent Jesus Christ to redeem us seeing as we cannot redeem ourselves,"
Regardless, whether Jesus Christ came to save us or not, men would still have the same morals and values as men who lived 500 years before the time of Jesus. The coming of Jesus doesn't change a human's definition of what is good or bad. Therefore, if that's the "MAIN difference" then there really isn't much of a difference at all.

J_A_C_Ks avatar J_A_C_K Yeah You Are 0Reply
@J_A_C_K So if the Bible and Quran contain the exact same moral messages, then why would it make a difference even if the...

I don't think you understand. The Bible is not about moral rules and regulations, its all about Jesus Christ. From Genesis to Revelation. Muslims do not belief in the deity of Christ so... yes, there is a difference. The quran and the Bible are incomparable in fact. Christianity and Islam have two different purposes entirely. Muslims use their works such as prayer etc. to appease Allah. Whereas Christians are saved only through grace, good works do nothing to please God. We live morally and follow the Bible because we are Christians, we aren't Christians because we live morally and follow the Bible.

thatsjustmiis avatar thatsjustmii Yeah You Are 0Reply
@thatsjustmii I don't think you understand. The Bible is not about moral rules and regulations, its all about Jesus Christ. From...

"Whereas Christians are saved only through grace, good works do nothing to please God."

Actually, no.

"We live morally and follow the Bible because we are Christians, we aren't Christians because we live morally and follow the Bible."

What?

Although the Bible is primarily about the Redemption of the world through the works of Jesus, there are clear moral codes that Christians must follow. Also, we may be saved by grace, but in order to obtain that grace, you have to live virtuously. Just because Christ saved us from our sins doesn't mean we can kill people and still get in to Heaven. That's fairly basic knowledge. I don't know where you're getting that God doesn't care about good works.

And besides, this whole post was directed towards the irrelevancy of the existence of a deity or Heaven or Hell, in regards to human morality.

J_A_C_Ks avatar J_A_C_K Yeah You Are 0Reply
@J_A_C_K "Whereas Christians are saved only through grace, good works do nothing to please God." Actually, no. "We live...

You wrote - "And besides, this whole post was directed towards the irrelevancy of the existence of a deity or Heaven or Hell, in regards to human morality."

That's a false premise.

@J_A_C_K So if the Bible and Quran contain the exact same moral messages, then why would it make a difference even if the...

Clearly nothing is clear about religions, we don't even know each word is correct as there have been so many writings and rewriting of every religeous text.

@thatsjustmii Really? Wouldn't you agree that our backgrounds, families, and circumstances all affect what our weltanschuung...

People that need a rule book on how to behave and a fear of hell to keep them from misbehaving are the most frightening people alive, because they only have to lose that faith then other people suffer. I would rather live with people who have empathy and compassion and believe in their hearts the right way to treat others.

OzSurfers avatar OzSurfer Yeah You Are +2Reply

Agree. I believe in reincarnation.

Sukiesnows avatar Sukiesnow Yeah You Are +4Reply

My behavior would not change one bit because I do not live life based on a heaven or hell. Religious books, The Bible, Quoran, etc are subject to interpretation and that is the bad part. An eye for an eye or turn the other cheek??? I do think the the ten commandments are pretty good rules though.

Science is anything that can be measured. Spirit is anything that can not be measured. Science is powered by logic and evidence. Spirit is powered by believing and wisdom. No connection. Stop trying to prove or disprove spiritual things with science.

It wouldn't change how I treated others in the slightest

OzSurfers avatar OzSurfer Yeah You Are +2Reply

It definitely wouldn't. I do not do things to "Earn" Heaven or "avoid" Hell. However, I am not sure how long I'd wanna live knowing I am just headed for eternal oblivion.

Trishs avatar Trish Yeah You Are +2Reply

There will always be consequences for our actions as long as we're alive.

There are some things that would change, but nothing major like "I'm going to start killing people!" or anything like that

@Watchful_questioneer Why?

While that's a very intelligent question, I would request a little more specificity

@WinniethePooh While that's a very intelligent question, I would request a little more specificity

Well, what change in factors would there be? Is it that the notion of Heaven/Hell make you act kind for fear of punishment?

@Watchful_questioneer Well, what change in factors would there be? Is it that the notion of Heaven/Hell make you act kind for fear of...

Absolutely. There are many things that I would do if they didn't conflict with my religious views. Drinking (in moderation), for example, always sounds like a ton of fun, however I believe it to harm judgement, have negative health effects, etc

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@1907441

Yes, but I probably wouldn't care about those effects if my religion didn't ask me not to partake. For example, it makes sense that a religious institution would try to keep people from making clouded decisions

@WinniethePooh Absolutely. There are many things that I would do if they didn't conflict with my religious views. Drinking (in...

Oh, I understand. Thanks, that actually made more sense than I anticipated, I'm glad I asked

i would treat people better.

@VicZinc Why? How?

how would take to long to write down but why is easier to explain. the law of supply and demand and the principal on uncertain quantity. knowing that their is an exact finite amount of life makes it more valuable.

My mnoral structure isn't built on any set of rules set down by a greater power, but by understanding what does and does not hurt me - therefore what does and does not hurt others. stick to being guided by empathy and you'll do just fine.

SugarSkulls avatar SugarSkull Yeah You Are +1Reply

I have no proof it exists so I just live as good a life as I can. The bible isn't the reason i do anything.

You have just as much proof that Hell doesn't exist, as a Christian has that it does exist.

J_A_C_Ks avatar J_A_C_K Yeah You Are 0Reply
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@2001597

why? lots of people get inspiration from fiction books and science fiction all the time and i think they are still valid concepts.

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@2018964

the problem is all things are founded on y. y is just a unknown principal we assume to be true in order to advance the idea to different levels. all ideas have to incorporate a certain number of y's to build x.

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@2019003

why do we need to replace y with z. all that religion seeks to attain is a house in the sky perhaps without uor foundations of y x will ascend and we will find y was just an anchor in the first place.

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@2019354

except for
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they seem to be the exception in every category when it comes to how successful societies work.

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@2019364

i already have and odds are so have you 3 in five people a direct decedents of mongols.

true

PatSharkeys avatar PatSharkey Yeah You Are 0Reply

not one whit !

PatSharkeys avatar PatSharkey Yeah You Are 0Reply

There is no "natural goodness" which becomes the basis of a "natural morality" within a "natural theology." "There is none good, no not one" (Rom. 3:12). "No one is good, except God alone" (Luke 18:19). When mankind thinks that he can know "good" and define "good" from his own perspective alone, he ends up calling "evil good, and good evil" (Isa. 5:20), and Isaiah pronounces a woe upon those who are thus "wise in their own eyes, and clever in their own sight." (Isa. 5:21).

@VicZinc Glad you have something to comfort your mind

I don't believe you Vic. You are constantly trying to instigate believers to dis-belief. Satan's work.

@Budwick I don't believe you Vic. You are constantly trying to instigate believers to dis-belief. Satan's work.

I don't want you to disbelieve, I want you to understand that morality does not require a god.

Then you might be dissuaded of your misbelief that godless means evil.

VicZincs avatar VicZinc Yeah You Are 0Reply
@VicZinc I don't want you to disbelieve, I want you to understand that morality does not require a god. Then you might be...

Of course that's what you want me to 'understand'. That's what Satan would want me to understand!

It's not true of course. Throughout history, as belief in God declined so to the morality of the culture declined. People left to their own devices decay morally.

Nothing would change, because I already believe that heaven and hell is right here on earth, and not some place in the sky or under the ground.

BlindMists avatar BlindMist Yeah You Are -1Reply

There would still be people who believe in a heaven and a hell, regardless of the concreteness of the proof, right? And these people would still need to be laughed at, right? So no, I would not change my behavior.

PhilboydStudges avatar PhilboydStudge Yeah You Are -1Reply
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