+59

There's only one race. That is the human race. People made up races. It's a way to divide. A way to emphasize differences. A way to feel superior over another. A way to get power.

70%Agree30%Disagree
fuzalas avatar Life
Share
3 49

But we're not all the same. We're all different and that's okay. Ignoring that we're different is just as bad as making it a pressing issue in my opinion.

@Wunderscore But we're not all the same. We're all different and that's okay. Ignoring that we're different is just as bad as...

never said we're all the same
I said that the term race was invented by us
and that it is a way to divide, get power, etc.

we are all one race is meant to say that we're all human
and that is a similarity we share

everyone is different
each individual is different from another
but we all of this one thing in common

@fuzala never said we're all the same I said that the term race was invented by us and that it is a way to divide, get...

Yes. And I believe that races were originally created to create barriers and superiority. However, "race" is defined as "Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics." Therefore, "the human race" doesn't exactly make sense. And these races show forte fences which are common in different groups of people. The differences are things which we should celebrate. So yes, the origin of "race" was a way for people to treat others horribly and feel okay about it. But in this day and age, it's not such a bad thing.

@Wunderscore I don't know where "forte fences" came from. I meant differences.

ah but people are still discriminated against because of their race
even in this so called modern world

if race is meaningless in genetics
why divide on that?

so why can't these things be celebrated as differences from individual to individual?
instead of from race to race?

@fuzala ah but people are still discriminated against because of their race even in this so called modern world if race is...

That is true.

Because people are different. Ignoring that fact puts us a huge step backwards. We need to accept that we're different rather than ignore it.

They can, should be. That would be ideal. I think, though, that its easier for people to gradually divide into smaller groups. So we divide into races, and, from there, divide into individuals.

Multiple definitions I have found explicitly say that race is a division of the human race. Where, may I ask, do trees fit anywhere into that?

@Wunderscore That is true. Because people are different. Ignoring that fact puts us a huge step backwards. We need to...

yeah I edited the trees out because I realized that was the wrong way to go about it

so yes
one human race can be an oxymoron
but an oxymoron isn't false

"Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that unfortunately is what many people wrongfully consider to be the essence of race in humans -- genetic differences," says Templeton.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_r...SRD-071098.php

in my opinion
in a perfect world
we'd refer to people as human
and not by their race

if someone were to say
what's next?
do we get rid of gender and say we shouldn't refer to people by their gender either?

I say that that would be like comparing apples and oranges

males and females differ genetically
so no
I'm not saying to get rid of referring to people by their gender

as the quote I listed above
race is a meaningless term in modern genetics

@fuzala in my opinion in a perfect world we'd refer to people as human and not by their race if someone were to...

Races differ genetically as well (not as much as males and females, but still, there are genetic trends and differences in DNA of different races).

The "inspired by" link says:
"Hence, all human beings have the same basic type of DNA, so that the basic traits and functions of the human organs, tissues and various types of cells are the same. So, biologically, humanity is one basic race. Variations between individuals are due to detailed differences in the genetic code, unique for every individual."

However, this "basic DNA" does not make us all the same race. It makes us all the same species, but genetic variations in race do not make us different species. Those genetic differences are present. They are evident in DNA analyses, and different races have observable differences in DNA, just as individual people have even smaller visible differences in DNA.

The term "human race", as Wunderscore said, is entirely oxymoronic.

While it may have been used to divide and to justify racism, it certainly is not the origin of it, nor is it serving that purpose right now (at least not intentionally or severely).

@Watchful_questioneer Races differ genetically as well (not as much as males and females, but still, there are genetic trends and...

"Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that unfortunately is what many people wrongfully consider to be the essence of race in humans -- genetic differences," says Templeton.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_r...SRD-071098.php

@fuzala "Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that...

Wait, I find that difficult to believe (no offense to your credibility).

I believe that individual variation is greater than that of races, but I don't think that variation in race is as insignificant as that article makes it seem. I think that it's too easy to tell a person's race by their appearance for it to be insignificant. Perhaps it is insignificant relative to individual variation, but that does not make it as nonexistent as your post claims.

@Watchful_questioneer Wait, I find that difficult to believe (no offense to your credibility). I believe that individual variation is...

none taken

there's a debate about whether race is biological
I didn't know this previous to a few moments ago
I thought it was a widely accepted claim

this link shows both sides

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ev...ace-exist.html

@fuzala none taken there's a debate about whether race is biological I didn't know this previous to a few moments ago I...

I must say, I am very impressed with the articulation and validity of points made by C. Loring Brace, and how she points out the gradual change in cultures.

I think that "race" is not a definitive term. It's a sort of continuum, almost, and on the color spectrum, that's like saying "there's no such thing as blue", meaning that the only thing truly blue is one exact frequency. This isn't entirely true, because there are still "shades of blue", that we can see gererally, just like "shades" (or what the author calls "clines). It cannot be used as an absolute statement, but it can be used generally. There are still "shades of blue", even if nobody knows where to draw the line between blue and green.

@Watchful_questioneer I must say, I am very impressed with the articulation and validity of points made by C. Loring Brace, and how she...

it's not so clear sometimes
I'll see some people and can't tell what race they're from
or I'll assume they're one race
and find out that they're another

and your color comparison makes sense I guess
since I can look at a navy blue shirt and sometimes see it as black

but I don't know
I'll have to think about it some more

@fuzala it's not so clear sometimes I'll see some people and can't tell what race they're from or I'll assume they're one...

It's not a definitive thing, and we can mix it up, making it somewhat impractical for physical description sometimes, like a very dark color can look black to someone, and something between two colors can be seen as either one. However, it can still be treated the same way as colors are. I can think that a person looks like they're of one race, and be wrong in the same way. There's no fine like between races, but I still think that the concept of race is as valid as the concept of color.

@fuzala in my opinion in a perfect world we'd refer to people as human and not by their race if someone were to...

I agree that ideally, race shouldn't play as big a role in society as it does today, but it still creates significant differences in appearance in people (neither positive nor negative), and still possesses if only when dealing with appearance.

It is also still relative today because many races are united by culture, not just genetics. This causes different cultures to have different beliefs, religions, morals, and lifestyles, and that, paired with distinct physical appearance and actual genetic variation makes race a very real thing.

Humans are not a race. We are a species. Same thing can be said for all the different types of monkeys. That's why we have different names for all of them.

names avatar name Disagree +1Reply
@name Humans are not a race. We are a species. Same thing can be said for all the different types of monkeys. That's...

yeah Andrew pointed that out to me

this post is flawed

the human race is an oxymoron then?
so maybe it still is accepted as a phrase in everyday language

@fuzala inspired by:...

"In fact, 'race' is an old term and concept that modern genetic science has shown to be meaningless, but has been satanically exploited to justify all sorts of racial hatred, arrogance, tyranny, and discrimination." ~Nabil Haroun

@fuzala inspired by:...

so I didn't know before I made this post that there's a debate about the existence of race

so here's a link from PBS that shows both sides:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ev...ace-exist.html

This comment was deleted by its author.
@1909326

she might not be white
it's kinda hard to tell

plus
a bunch of white people agreed to this post

as said by the quote from above that I listed
the term race is meaninglessly
at least genetically

in my opinion
in a perfect world
we wouldn't refer to her as white
we're refer to her as human

@fuzala she might not be white it's kinda hard to tell plus a bunch of white people agreed to this post as said by the...

So what's next?
Are we gonna stop referring to people as male and female, because we're all human?

@xxdetroitxx So what's next? Are we gonna stop referring to people as male and female, because we're all human?

genetically
male and female differ
right?

but the term race is meaningless in modern genetics

you're comparing apples and oranges

Sickle Cell Disese says otherwise.

There are races, but since interracial marriage is less frowned upon (to be clear, I think that's a good thing) they're getting blurred. Still acknowledging the difference is not the same as treating people differently because of it. Globalisation is not complete, and people are still localised to a certain extent. For instance, some Chinese have never let China, some Africans have never left Africa. There are still broad categories of characteristics we call races, but that doesn't mean any one is superior to any other. Some may have predispositions toward or away from certain traits, and some trait may be more or less valuable in different situations, but overall, all races have the same value.

I find this post somewhat similar to "I would never date an ugly person because I don't believe they exist". Some people are unattractive to the vast majority of people, even though one or two out of a billion may find that sort of thing attractive. If you do, good for you. If you don't, good for you too. It's beign extreme to say there is no difference. There is, but that doesn't mean people are worth any more or less.

@B10ckH34d There are races, but since interracial marriage is less frowned upon (to be clear, I think that's a good thing)...

that's the thing though
I'm not saying people don't have differences between each other

I'm saying that race is a term we made up
(kinda like most words)
and it has been used in the ways I talked about in the post

plus, there's a debate about whether or not race exists
at least genetically/biologically

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ev...ace-exist.html

@fuzala that's the thing though I'm not saying people don't have differences between each other I'm saying that race is a...

I do not believe that there are sudden physical changes anywhere. Like I'm travelign south form Scandinavia and I'll look aroudn and be like " Whoa wtf did everyone get such dark skin?"

That article was kinda tl;dr so I just read bits of it. Anyway, I think there're like nuclei and gradients between them. This is hard to explain. Picture a point in the middle of China, one in Scandinavia and one in Africa (let's jsut talk about this land mass so we don't have to go across oceans). These are the locations of the purest, most Chinese, European and African -looking people. Now make a triangle like an RGB or CMY(K) colour palette. That's how I think races are. There is a gradient, bt you can still tell the 'primary colours'. There are more than 3, but it's easiest to visualise if we use the same number of races as primary colours.

There was a time when most people were primary, with a few secondary. Now the region of secondary colours is getting bigger. One day, maybe, everyone will be (using CMY) grey/brown, the tertiary colour. That will be when we're racially homogeneous and race no longer exists. until then, it's a real distinction, pointless as it may be.

@B10ckH34d I do not believe that there are sudden physical changes anywhere. Like I'm travelign south form Scandinavia and...

the link gave both sides
so I thought it was a good one

yeah Andrew used the same color comparison
and I do understand where you're both going with it

he said "...I still think that the concept of race is as valid as the concept of color"

@fuzala the link gave both sides so I thought it was a good one yeah Andrew used the same color comparison and I do...

I agree that we're all human and that's like 99.99% of DNA so race is genetically trivial. But since we're all human, it's a big distinction. If evil was totally wiped out, and everyone was good, the smallest good would become the new vilest evil. Since so many things are automatically similar, the smallest difference stands out. Better example: In Pokemon, there were originall 151 species, and each one had a shiny colour variant. The shinies were easily recognised as the same species. Imagine a game where there was only Pikachu. The shiny and normal would suddenly be very different. People wouldn't ask "What Pokemon are in your team?" They'd ask, "what's the ration of shiny to normal Pikachu in your team?

Okay so yeah. I'm overall halfway in this argument. I don't think race makes us so very different, but I still think it exists. I'll get around to reading is some day. I'm really busy. Asian (See what I did there?) high school.

@B10ckH34d I agree that we're all human and that's like 99.99% of DNA so race is genetically trivial. But since we're all...

yeah I did wary smilie

but even within the Asian race
there are differences in skin color, eyes, hair, etc.
and this can be even further divided between individual to individual

you can always get more specific with a color

with race
it's Asian
but from country to country you can see the differences
is there a different race within each country?
that's not rhetorical
I'm really asking if there is
because I don't know

@fuzala yeah I did but even within the Asian race there are differences in skin color, eyes, hair, etc. and this...

That's exacctly my point! Asian isn't even a race. There's Indian and Chinese, or the two with greatest difference. Then there's North Indian, who look almost White. Then a lot of Chinese are at least a bit Mongolian because of Genghis Khan's freakin libido. Then there are CHinese dialects, Teochew, Hakka, Cantonese, Hokkien, to name a few, there's Han Chinese, and this other one that lives mostly in Urumqi but the name escapes me. Race is like infraspecies (more specific than subspecies), sort of. Like dog breeds. There's German Shepherd and Chihuahua, and there could be anything in between, but the two extremes still exist.

Race now refers to a theoretical peak in a graph with don't know how many axes. It used to be a classification by itself, but now it has to be part of a coordinate on a let's say 8 dimensional graph. for example, I'm 74% Chinese (assuming 1% Mongolian), and the remaining 25% contains, I think 2 kinds of Caucasian, Indian, and some others. My great grandmother was a headhunter from
Borneo. Seriously. But most of my DNA is form the bit that evolved prevalence in the people who migrated from Africa to China, so I identify myself as Chinese

@B10ckH34d That's exacctly my point! Asian isn't even a race. There's Indian and Chinese, or the two with greatest difference...

OH did you ever hear about this thing called the
Mongolian Spot
or the Mongolian Blue Spot?
it's usually on the back of a child
and may disappear after awhile

my first cousin on my dad's said has that and I always wondered if they had any Mongolian ancestors

and they have very similar features to Mongolians

@fuzala OH did you ever hear about this thing called the Mongolian Spot or the Mongolian Blue Spot? it's usually on the...

Mother of... I was born almost completely blue. And I was so huge (~3.7kg, but still big enough to have to be born early because I coulnd't fit) they had to use a suction vacuum thing to get me out, and it gave me a cone head. My dad thought I was an alien.

@fuzala is that what inspired your username?

No that's because I've had a flat top hair cut for the past 5+ years, and my head looks square for a while after. I first thought of it trying to think of a name that starts with an early letter (A,B,C,D) so I don't have to scroll so far down to log in on my xbox.

Oh yeah I just saw name's comment. I wanted to mention that as a side note but Iforgot. IT's not the main problem so it's fine. Race is like infraspecies anyway, so species is like ultrarace so it's not a big deal.

And I forgot to state exactly why I NW'd -_-. Race doens't emphasize differences, it just names them. It woudl be used to divide, but honestly, I think it's only natural to see difference and name it. If there was only one colour, red, there would be no name for red, because it wouldn't distinguish from anything. There woudl be dark and light, but no dark red and light red (I know it's pink, but it flows better with light red). Race itself doesn't give power.It's jst a shortcut. Instead of referring to a race by naming each one, people came up with a name for all members. It could be used to say, "I am better than all Black people" but it could also be used to say "Most Black people came from Africa withi...

@fuzala yeah I did but even within the Asian race there are differences in skin color, eyes, hair, etc. and this...

They're all different levels of specificity, but all fall under race. Race is like taxon, which now has life, domain, kingdom, phylim, class, order, family, genus, species, and an ultra-, super- sub- and infra- for most of them. There's (I'm coining these terms now) Level1 race, Asian, Level 2, Indian, Chinese, L3, North Indian South Indian, Han Chinese, Chinese minorities, L4, L5 and probably an L6 too. It may go further and further theroetically until you have 7 billion. All called 'race' just like kingdom, phylum etc are all called taxon.

Great post Mahfuza! Created some awesome discussion. y smilie

@Altoid_Freak_250 Great post Mahfuza! Created some awesome discussion.

thanks Faye eyes smilie

I learned a lot
I'm sure others did too

@fuzala thanks Faye I learned a lot I'm sure others did too

You're absolutely right, I learned quite a bit. I love logging onto this site and reading some intelligent commentary.

Yes, people made up the word "race" to separate humanity, but the concept was already there, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging our physical and cultural difference as long as they are not used to persecute. The concept of a "human race" is more of social construct than plain old race, if you ask me, and I don't think we should ignore our differences in order to be politically correct. I mean,no one really has a problem distinguishing dogs by their breeds.

_Jojo_s avatar _Jojo_ Disagree 0Reply
Please   login   or signup   to leave a comment.