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Faith in God or intelligent design is not something that is necessarily logical, but when thinking about how the world came to be, it's just as probable as it all being one huge coincidence.

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How the world came to be is not a case of it being a coincidence. Plus there is no need for an intelligent designer to explain how the world came to be, or like why natural forces are the way they are.

@Fanatic If it was not made for a purpose, then it was a coincidence

Okay, so what you're saying is that the probability of the world coming to be , having no cosmic purpose, is similar to that of an intelligent designer existing?!

@PopsicleStick Okay, so what you're saying is that the probability of the world coming to be , having no cosmic purpose, is...

Tell me, seeing how complex the world is and how complex animals and humans are, how it is in any way logical to think that this universe and everything that came with it just came to be for no reason at all? How is that any more probable than thinking that it was intelligently crafted by a higher power?

@Fanatic Tell me, seeing how complex the world is and how complex animals and humans are, how it is in any way logical to...

There are tons of things created for no purpose at all, at least not at first, and then came to be very complex explanations that people have found could better the world, you know...

Orangiess avatar Orangies Disagree 0Reply
@Fanatic I'm a little confused by that statement. Can you give me an example?

Fire. Before man found out about, there was no possible trace of plasma on Earth. It was created by accident, for no reason, and now look... Off of fire, we've learned to cook our food and bring light to the world...

That's a pretty cheap example, though.

Orangiess avatar Orangies Disagree 0Reply
@Orangies Fire. Before man found out about, there was no possible trace of plasma on Earth. It was created by accident, for...

No, it was a good example haha I get what you mean. But how does that relate to the universe and how it came to be?

@Fanatic No, it was a good example haha I get what you mean. But how does that relate to the universe and how it came to be?

Well, just like fire was created, humans could've possibley been created like that, too. Orgasms became orgasms and cells became cells and... bam. You have a human! Similar to how planets and matter and all that stuff was made. You know how it's possible to create water, H20, right? Since everything has a chemical formula... It's totally possible things came to be because stuff happened, you know?

Orangiess avatar Orangies Disagree 0Reply
@Orangies Well, just like fire was created, humans could've possibley been created like that, too. Orgasms became orgasms and...

Our body is just so incredibly complex...trillions of things had to go perfectly right for us to be able to breathe and think and eat and move and pee and reproduce and digest and hear...not to mention how perfectly Earth had to be placed so we could even be here. I don't know. Too many coincidences for me to not think someone created it all

@Fanatic Our body is just so incredibly complex...trillions of things had to go perfectly right for us to be able to breathe...

Didn't I just explain why things are complex?

There are trillions of planets in the universe, one is bound to support carbon-based biological lifeforms, earth just happens to be one of them. Scientist have found other planets that are within the 'habitable zone'.

@Fanatic Tell me, seeing how complex the world is and how complex animals and humans are, how it is in any way logical to...

All complexity has derived from simpler origins by physical processes like evolution. The complexity of the world you see now took billions of years of development, trials and error. And natural selection has promoted specific desirable characteristics over time.

The idea that there has to be a ‘why’ in the world existing in the first place may be a product of humanity attempting to validate its own existence. Religion offers to grant purpose and meaning to people's lives out of fear that we might just exist, or the desire for it to be much more. Btw I’m not completely certain that there is not a cosmically divine reason behind all this. The fact is, no one knows whether there is a 'why' or not, though I’m clearly leaning towards no.

And if there was an intelligent designer why does it seem he created the world with callousness, abundantly inflicting suffering? http://www.amirite.com/627362, http://www.amirite.com/647266

@PopsicleStick All complexity has derived from simpler origins by physical processes like evolution. The complexity of the world...

I don't know man, I think christianity answers all of my questions, but like I said, it's not necessarily logical. Just what I've put my faith in

@Fanatic I don't know man, I think christianity answers all of my questions, but like I said, it's not necessarily logical...

Yeah, because religion apparently has all the answers set in place. Which is kind of sad because it can prevent people from examining and exploring different viewpoints, ideas or theories that don't accord to their belief system, or they just disregard it or are not open to it.

@PopsicleStick Yeah, because religion apparently has all the answers set in place. Which is kind of sad because it can prevent...

Not really. The reason I'm on this site in the first place is so people can ask me questions about my faith, and I can then question myself. Just because I am have chosen a certain path, it doesn't mean I'm not opening to listening and learning about new ideas.

@PopsicleStick How the world came to be is not a case of it being a coincidence. Plus there is no need for an intelligent designer...

What do you mean by your first statement?
Some think the world being formed without intelligent design is very unlikely, and that's something that is entirely subjective. If it seems unlikely to someone, then there's nothing wrong with it and very little can change that belief.

@Watchful_questioneer What do you mean by your first statement? Some think the world being formed without intelligent design is very...

I was referring to coincidence as "a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection".

The odds of something happening like an evolutionary step producing a complex organism is quite small but after enough time anything 'unlikely' can happen, taking into consideration conditional probability. So it is not a case of it being a coincidence.

Yeah I know, there's nothing necessarily wrong with it. My aim is not to change that belief. I'm just arguing and giving my take on it.

@PopsicleStick I was referring to coincidence as "a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent...

Oh, sorry for the accusation, i just was throwing that out there in case that were to be your stance.

I think that the probability of such events, even after so much time, is still highly subjective. I agree with you thinking its plausible, but I think that someone else might speculate differently, and in the end, it's only speculation.

@Watchful_questioneer Oh, sorry for the accusation, i just was throwing that out there in case that were to be your stance. I think that...

It's all good.

But it has been observed.The rate of evolution can be measured. Natural selection plays a big part, in that being a non-random process.

e.g. http://www.newscientist.com/art...l#.UcjbsPmno2A

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Like what?

Richard Dawkins admits, and I agree, that our world may have been intelligently designed, but not by a "god" in the traditional sense. Have you seen the movie Prometheus? Basically, humans discover that we were created and placed here by an alien species. I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that something like that may have happened.
What isn't logical is the notion that we know anything about our creator (if we have one) or that some of us have a personal relationship with him. I don't claim that it's impossible for there to be an omnipotent force out there (what we would call God), but the history of spirituality, religion, and science suggests that everyone who claims to know of such a being is full of shit. The point being that if there is a godlike creator out there, we don't know the first thing about it.
TL;DR: Intelligent design is logical, but religion is not. There may be something resembling a god, but to claim to have experienced its presence or to know anything about its intentions or its will is just foolish.

@AtheisticMystic Richard Dawkins admits, and I agree, that our world may have been intelligently designed, but not by a "god" in the...

What if these aliens are telekinetic, but so subtle in their communications they seem to us to be just a conviction and faith, without actually presenting evidence of their existence?

@Watchful_questioneer What if these aliens are telekinetic, but so subtle in their communications they seem to us to be just a conviction...

How would that explain the vast diversity of faith, as well as lack of faith? Why are the aliens not talking to me and why are they telling us all different things?

@AtheisticMystic How would that explain the vast diversity of faith, as well as lack of faith? Why are the aliens not talking to me...

Perhaps they only speak to those who need saving, and who faith could save?
Perhaps they're just random aliens f*cking with our minds for fun?
Perhaps they tell us not the truth, but what they think we need to hear, or want us to hear for alternate purposes?
Perhaps they want to get us to eliminate ourselves because, though they're telekinetic, they're powerless?
Perhaps there are many of them, each competing to spread a different faith?

Being the humans, we can't really know for sure.

@Watchful_questioneer Perhaps they only speak to those who need saving, and who faith could save? Perhaps they're just random aliens...

This is true. As Dr. Cameron (from the tv show House) puts it, penguins may as well speculate about nuclear physics.

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