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Women with children should work half time and get full pay.

The most important institution of a society is the family. I seriously believe that especially in the western world there is just too much burden on women's shoulders. They become ruined by the rough corporate atmosphere and can't have the energy to care for their children, home, themselves and their husbands. Just too tired and exhausted to be a home maker. Too many teens growing without mother love. Lets keep our women slightly away from the economical wars.

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So basically, women with children should be confined to housework and raising children?

Paying women with children more for less work would most likely cause employers to stop hiring women with children altogether. Why the hell would they pay anyone (male or female) a full rate for only half the hours?

What about men with children?

How about just getting the same pay as men? Is that a good place to start?

@...In America, they already do.

nope

still a wage gap between genders in America

"But studies show women are paid less even when they are in the same job and have the same experience as their male counterparts. "
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2...n_3941180.html

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree +1Reply
@fuzala nope still a wage gap between genders in America "But studies show women are paid less even when they are in the...

Probably should cite a more credible source than huff post. I mean really??? And you really need to look at the real facts in context and in the right perspective. Women may earn less than men per year on average, but they also work less too and in occupations that have smaller salaries...get it?

This is getting pretty damn old. Wake up!

Anonymous 0Reply
@Probably should cite a more credible source than huff post. I mean really??? And you really need to look at the...

Huffington Post got its stats from the US Census Bureau

I would say the US Census Bureau as credibility

and the same stat has been in my psych textbooks more than once

the about 75% pay is littered all over the Internet
there's multiple credible sources saying so

"But studies show women are paid less even when they are in the same job and have the same experience as their male counterparts."

there are many women who work the same hours as their male counterparts and still get paid less

A women who has no kids probably works the same hours

my mom has three kids and works more hours than my dad

she gets paid less than him

both in the food business

the jobs that have the smallest gender gap in wages are psychology related jobs

I think you're the one who needs to wake up

ignoring a problem just because it's subtle now
and more hidden than it used to be

but you do make a good point about perspective

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree -1Reply
@fuzala Huffington Post got its stats from the US Census Bureau I would say the US Census Bureau as credibility and the...

So what exactly are your parents job titles? Are they both managers etc, or do they do different jobs? Are the employed at the same business? Do they both have the same qualifications, credentials, education, experience?

This gender wage gap is one of the biggest myths in modern American society. Modern feminism in developed countries, especially America, perpetuates a lot of false claims about gender differences and is doing damage to how men and women interact.

YouTube video thumbnail

Anonymous -1Reply
@So what exactly are your parents job titles? Are they both managers etc, or do they do different jobs? Are the...

that video doesn't justify
"But studies show women are paid less even when they are in the same job and have the same experience as their male counterparts. "

the video talks about having different levels of human capital

but what about being paid less when the human capital is the same?

the video even says that sexism may play a role in how human capital works out

lastly
discrimination against women is still there
of course women in America are better off than say the last century

but it's still there
it's more taboo to express such discrimination than it used to be

the subtlety of it is what makes it scary

that glass ceiling is still there

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree +1Reply
@fuzala that video doesn't justify "But studies show women are paid less even when they are in the same job and have the...

I think you need to watch the video again. It's not exactly what you described. It doesn't justify anything as there's nothing to lean towards. It's simply stating the fact. That quote from huff post is false.

The part about sexism was that he mentioned that it may play a part in how men and women make their own career choices. I don't believe this is the case.

Feminism ignores detailed facts and avoid contextual analysis involving the differences between men and women and their roles.

The 'glass ceiling' is just as real as the flying spaghetti monster. Stop playing victim.

Anonymous 0Reply
@I think you need to watch the video again. It's not exactly what you described. It doesn't justify anything as...

I think he acknowledges that it may play a part
I'm glad he doesn't dismiss the possibility

and I do believe this is the case
I've done research on the stereotype threat for my career

and there are multiple studies correlating the threat to performance

and that statement:
"I don't think I'm going to be able to make a point with you, as most feminists don't like to have compelling conversations with detailed facts and use contextual analysis involving the differences between men and women and their roles. "

never said I was a feminist

and you making generalizations about feminists and insulting them as not having compelling conversations show how biased you are on this topic

I'm not playing victim
I'm stating my opinions

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree +2Reply
@I think you need to watch the video again. It's not exactly what you described. It doesn't justify anything as...

oh yeah

I don't ignore the difference between male and female

I know there are differences
and specifically state that down below

I don't have a problem with differences
here's an example post:
http://www.amirite.com/773514-i...gender/1946526

I have a problem with discrimination
especially when problems associated with discrimination are swept under the rug
or downplayed

overestimating discrimination is bad
but so is underestimating discrimination

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@What discrimination?

read my last long comment to StickCaveman

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@fuzala read my last long comment to StickCaveman

Right, well I have to disagree. You seem to be plucking this discrimination stuff out of thin air with no substance or facts. You can't possibly think that if two people who are opposite sex but carry all the same qualifications and working the same job are getting paid differently. It really makes no sense. If that were the case, companies would just hire all women at a fraction of the cost.

I'm really missing the 'discrimination' you keep mentioning. You have to be more specific.

I guess we can both agree that giving women more money for less work isn't going to solve anything. That's just ridiculous. Can't say much more.

Anonymous -1Reply
@Right, well I have to disagree. You seem to be plucking this discrimination stuff out of thin air with no substance...

Well I do disagree with the post

and it's not out of thin area

I provided a link and a study done in Stanford that listed it's findings

I don't know why you're ignoring that

even the links StickCaveman put up and your video acknowledge discrimination

I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge discrimination that's occurring

and it's not just women
I know that

I know of a bald guy who wasn't hired
the company pretty much said his baldness was a bad image for them

if the comments were about bald people
I'd go and talk about the issues of discriminating against bald people

I did a discussion on the bald guy for class

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree +1Reply
@fuzala nope still a wage gap between genders in America "But studies show women are paid less even when they are in the...

The problem with the wage gap is that it takes some statistics and twists them around so that people (such as yourself) misrepresent them because they don't ask any questions as to how the data was analyzed. They just take the information word for word because if somebody cites the census bureau, it must mean they're being 100% factual, right?

Here are several links that go in depth on how the wage gap is calculated.

http://www.payscale.com/career-...ender-wage-gap
Take a look at the second paragraph where it says, "These numbers simply compare the average earnings of men and women overall. In other words, they don’t take into account job choice, industry, experience, education, or any other factor that contributes to one’s pay." This is extremely important because the feminist wage gap argument leaves all that other stuff out to make it sound as though when a woman goes to get a job, she's paid 77 cents less by default just because she's a woman.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rea...qual-pay-myth/
"The wage gap statistic, however, doesn’t compare two similarly situated co-workers of different sexes, working in the same industry, performing the same work, for the same number of hours a day. It merely reflects the median earnings of all men and women classified as full-time workers."

http://money.msn.com/family-mon...4-085efb54eed2
"If we're going to address wage discrimination, shouldn't we do it honestly?"
"There's a problem with using fuzzy math to draw attention to gender inequality. Namely, it allows those so inclined to dismiss what could be a legitimate complaint."

All in all, paying someone less wages when they're doing the same job, at the same experience level, same seniority, but because their gender is different is considered to be wage discrimination. It is illegal and the reason women everywhere aren't suing is because they have a little common sense.

@StickCaveman The problem with the wage gap is that it takes some statistics and twists them around so that people (such as...

What's with the sarcasm? I never said the bureau was 100% factual. I merely said the bureau is credible. Every comment on this post has room for error. The same goes for any stats.

There's no doubt that things have improved since the past, but there's still room for improvement. Factors like giving birth and having to leave the workplace to raise kids do factor in for wage. That all makes sense. Still, there are countries like Belgium, New Zealand, and Denmark who have a gender wage gap that is about half of the gap of the US. The size of the gender gap in Belgium is less than half the size of the gender gap in the US. Looking at these other countries makes me think that improvements can be made.

Of course, this gap may very well always exist simply because of gender differences. I can accept that. I'm fine with wage being different because of gender differences, which include things like difference in physical strength, giving birth, etc. What I can't accept is the discrimination part.

It's not bull. The stereotype threat is legit and research on it has spread since it's advent in the mid-1990s.

The links repeat a lot of what the video said, and I already acknowledged in the beginning that the person made a good point about perspective.

Still, they underestimate discrimination.

Of course, I acknowledge that there are times discrimination is overestimated. There's no doubt that both under and overestimation occur. Since you already explained overestimation, I'll cover underestimation.

The links you posted talk about the contradicting studies, and they acknowledge things like discrimination. However, they underestimate discrimination. I'll provide quotes to explain how.

Those articles and the video put things in context, but they have more to cover still. The guy in the video mentions the possibility of discrimination. I'll provide information that supports that part.

........................................................
There was a study in Stanford done by Francine Blau and Lawrence Kahn called "The Gender Pay Gap."

Human capital:

"The proportion of the wage differential that is not explained by these types of productivity-related characteristics include the impact of labor market discrimination...41% of the gender gap cannot be explained even when gender differences in education, experience, industries, occupations, and union status are taken into account"

"However, even controlling experience and whatever other qualifications can readily be measured, there tends to be a pay difference between men and women that is not explained and is potentially due to discrimination"

I know that says potentially, but you'd then refer back to the first quote.

"...if women face barriers to entry into certain occupations, they may have higher unmeasured productivity than men in the same jobs. This factor would also suggest an underestimate of discrimination if we controlled for occupation"

"...women have also greatly increased their representation in traditionally-male dominated field. Thus gender differences in education levels [human capital] have never explained a large portion of the overall gender pay gap."

"Even small initial discriminatory differences in wages may cumulate to large ones as men and women make decisions about human capital investments and time allocation in the market and the home on the basis of these wage differentials"
http://www.stanford.edu/group/s...r_research.pdf

I'd argue that discrimination still plays a role today. It's not as bad as it used to be, but that doesn't mean things can't improve. Sure there can be focus on the why, but it's still important to look at the gap as well in order to recognize any issues.

...............................................................
you said:

"It is illegal and the reason women everywhere aren't suing is because they have a little common sense."

what?

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree +1Reply
@fuzala What's with the sarcasm? I never said the bureau was 100% factual. I merely said the bureau is credible. Every...

Sorry for the delay... wasn't in the mood to reply when I got the notification then forgot about it.

I wasn't saying the census information wasn't factual, but that the argument providing it simply twists the information around to make it sound as though there is discrimination prevalent.

I’m referring to America and America only. I’m aware that there is discrimination in other countries and that it is unfair. In most of these countries, I’d imagine that wage discrimination is the least of their worries. Still, I am not going to make any argument towards other countries as I am not as familiar with them.

I don’t blame you for not accepting discrimination. I don’t either. Employers (in America) know it is illegal and that if they are caught discriminating against wage they’ll be in big trouble. I believe cases of wage discrimination in this aspect are very rare and just want to make sure that you’re not assuming that because of an overall wage gap, you’re not assuming that women are just paid less in every job just because of their sex.

As for the last bit of my argument, I was rushing to finish it before I had to go to work, was all hot and bothered in the midst of debate, and will admit that part wasn’t very thought out. Disregard the last sentence.

Sorry, but that would just deplete the money from companies that need to pay others to fill in the time that the mothers are taking off. Everyone should get paid equally (in the same job category, for all jobs fluctuate wages), and if you don't work as many hours as someone else, don't get paid as much. It may not sound "fair", but it would be just plain detrimental to society if anyone qualified as a mother got time off and full pay. Prices for goods would have to go up to pay for the extra money out of the pockets of the suppliers. it would just be hell on wheels.

As much as I'd love to cut them a break, we just can't pay for it. Money doesn't just grow on trees, and I assure you companies would much rather FIRE the woman than pay for her half-time-full-wage deal. Why pay more for less? They could easily find a woman with no children (or grown up children) or a man to do the job full time and same pay.

Trust me, this idea sounds good in an imaginary sense, but in a logical sense it's just set up for failure.

Way to reinforce gender roles.

@MusicIsAGift Way to reinforce gender roles.

There's nothing wrong with gender roles.

Anonymous 0Reply
@There's nothing wrong with gender roles.

What if the man wants to be the one who takes care of the children?

@MusicIsAGift What if the man wants to be the one who takes care of the children?

Nothing wrong with that either. Personally, I believe that the standard gender role is ideal for raising a family. That also doesn't mean that I believe a woman belongs in the kitchen or that she shouldn't work even if she wanted.

Anonymous 0Reply
@Nothing wrong with that either. Personally, I believe that the standard gender role is ideal for raising a family...

It's okay to have that as a personal belief that you live by but no reason to implement policy which runs under such an assumption. (Also, something I did not think of, but what about same-sex couples who have adopted children?)

@MusicIsAGift It's okay to have that as a personal belief that you live by but no reason to implement policy which runs under...

Even same sex couples usually assume a role in which they each provide for a family.

Raising families with same sex parents is fairly recent in society, so it's not 100% certain of how it works out. I can't make a detailed comment on that, but I would believe, when they both assume their respective role, it would probably be similar to heterosexual parents.

Something I can say is that men and women are both different, not unequal however. They both generally have their own respective strengths, weaknesses, and skills. So when they work together in a family unit applying those attributes, it fits together like a puzzle. It make perfect sense in terms of evolutionary biology. It's how we are able to continue to grow as the superior species.

Some people choose not to follow the norm, and that's fine if it works for them too.

Anonymous +1Reply
@There's nothing wrong with gender roles.

or they want to spend equal time taking care of the children?

@MusicIsAGift or they want to spend equal time taking care of the children?

That's even better! Although, equal time can be difficult when one chooses to work, or is in a demanding career. Still, a functional and healthy family is very integrated, and isn't run by just one person or having each parent strictly do separate tasks.

Anonymous +2Reply

PEOPLE that actually take care of CHILDREN- under age 18- NOT ADULT CHILDREN- should receive some kind of break!!!!

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