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To be punished one must know he has been punished.

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Arob44s avatar People & Celebrities
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I don't think that's true

there are probably times when I've suffered
where I didn't know I was being punished o.O

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@fuzala I don't think that's true there are probably times when I've suffered where I didn't know I was being punished o.O

The post doesn't say "to suffer"- it says "to be punished", implying that punishment is done to teach a lesson, which it does not do unless the guilty party knows that there is a lesson to be learned.

@Watchful_questioneer The post doesn't say "to suffer"- it says "to be punished", implying that punishment is done to teach a lesson...

a lesson is not mandatory to fulfill the definition of punishment

I explained it more to OP below

one definition of punishment is

"to subject to pain, loss, confinement, death, etc., as a penalty for some offense, transgression, or fault"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/punish?s=t

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@fuzala a lesson is not mandatory to fulfill the definition of punishment I explained it more to OP below one definition...

Hmm, well it strikes me as a characteristic of punishment to actually let people know why they're suffering. Otherwise, it's not effective. So denotatively, you're right, but I saw the post more as "to achieve the desired effect of punishment".

I wonder which OP meant.

Those times during which you suffer are not attributed to punishment unless you know you are being punished. Suffering does not always indicate punishment. In fact you may think life is good while being punished because you are blinded to an even better life -- one that's no longer available to you because you are being punished.

@Arob44 Those times during which you suffer are not attributed to punishment unless you know you are being punished...

I'll give you an example

say someone wants to punish me with the silent treatment

I might not notice that I'm being given the silent treatment
but I'm still being punished
since I am given the silent treatment

another one
say someone puts itching powder in my shirt as punishment

well
it would itch
and I might think that I was just feeling itchy

I was being punished
without knowing it

but I was still feeling the miserableness that comes with punishment

if someone gets revenge on me
and I think it's an accident

I was still punished
that doesn't change just because I thought it was an accident
and not a punishment

just because I think something
doesn't mean it's true

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply

Good points, will have to consider further.

My thinking is that when you punish someone, you might want them to feel sorry for what they had done so they will change their future behavior. Seems like the punished should be aware of the causal relationship to be properly punished.

But there may be other goals. For example, if someone offends you, you exact your revenge using pain, humiliation, etc. but is it really punishment if the causal link is missing? From your perspective punishment has been dealt out, but if the target thinks it was an accident I'm thinking he has not been punished.

It might be more clear in the situation where the person punished has a good day rather than a great day, due to punishment. Since he doesnt know he could have had a great day, was he really punished? I say no unless he knows the better day was taken away because of something he did. Without that knowledge there was no punishment.

Another thought. If I give someone the silent treatment I think they feel bad and are therefore, in my mind, punished. But in their mind, if they never even noticed, or perhaps even enjoyed it, are they punished? I don't think so.

@Arob44 Good points, will have to consider further. My thinking is that when you punish someone, you might want them to...

if someone puts a stink bomb in my locker
as revenge

and I think it was placed there by accident

I was still punished because the stink bomb would make my day worse
even if I didn't know it was a punishment

sidenote:

there's also a reply button
so the person knows who you're replying to

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@fuzala if someone puts a stink bomb in my locker as revenge and I think it was placed there by accident I was still...

Without knowing why the stink bomb was placed there you can't know if you were punished or not. Perhaps a friend, concerned that you might get the West Nile virus, placed mesquito repellent bomb in your locker.

@Arob44 Without knowing why the stink bomb was placed there you can't know if you were punished or not. Perhaps a friend...

but if the intention of the person was to punish me
I was punished

punishment means

""to subject to pain, loss, confinement, death, etc., as a penalty for some offense, transgression, or fault"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/punish?s=t

if someone inflicts suffering on me
their intention is what makes it a punishment

still fulfills the meaning of punishment

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@fuzala but if the intention of the person was to punish me I was punished punishment means ""to subject to pain, loss...

Can you be punished if you don't think you're being punished? I would think the answer is no, but If it's the punisher's intention that determines the question of punishment you would have to answer yes.

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@1943481

the rapist

can't blame anything or anyone else generally
unless you're medically insane or something

people will say "I did x because y happened to me"
I killed because my childhood was horrible

still no excuse

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
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@1943486

maybe not kill them

corporal punishment does not mean kill

it's included
with other physical punishments

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
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@1943489

I feel like you're messing with me wary smilie

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
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@1943493

I feel like that might be a faulty analogy

because the rapist isn't rabid

and if there was a cure for the dog
I would prefer that the dog get cured
because dogs can change as well

all kinds of life have something to offer in this world
human, dog, or otherwise

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@1943483

Castration and skinning alive for starters............

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@1943496

the cures include
therapy
medicine
and skills that deal with control
and corporal punishment

there may be some that need the death penalty
but I don't think they all would

I'm talking about rapists in general
not particularly pedophile rapists

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@fuzala the cures include therapy medicine and skills that deal with control and corporal punishment there may be some...

I hear child rapists don't really respond to therapy. That crime is so horrible that I would not take the chance of it ever happening again. I would lock him up for life if I was sure he would never get out. Since I can't be sure of that I would want him executed. Why take the chance that another 9 year old gets raped.

Of course, it seems unlikely but there could be extenuating circumstances that should be taken into consideration.

@Arob44 I hear child rapists don't really respond to therapy. That crime is so horrible that I would not take the chance of...

well you have to understand pedophiles suffer from temptations that most don't even have to worry about

so they don't have that many help groups to help before anything happens

not that I'm excusing such behavior

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
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@1943506

that's why you go with corporal punishment

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
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@1943499

never said there wasn't sympathy for the victim

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply

All the sympathy goes to the victim. However, it is sad that certain people with potential for good ended up so bad.

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@1943509

each individual is different

that includes rapists

there are many cases where they were able to turn around

do you know some rapists were raped themselves?
someone rapes you when you were a kid
"pay it forward" and rape a kid when you grow up

it's a vicious cycle

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@1943509

No, didn't say that. They may have had potential at an earlier age. Certainly before raping a preteen.

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@1943511

I don't think that's fair

that person was a victim first

care should've been taken that the victim got help before they become what they hate

a shot to the head isn't gonna help the other victims from becoming rapists (potentially)

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@1943511

I'm assuming you'd want a trial before the shot to the head?

@Arob44 I'm assuming you'd want a trial before the shot to the head?

people do get falsely accused

as well as falsely shot to the head

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
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@1943519

well say someone accused you of raping a child
when you never even dared to do such a thing

of course I would defend that

and I'm not defending pedophile rapists

I'm defending pedophiles who resist their urges and don't hurt children

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@1943519

People who have been falsely accused of harming children have not harmed children.

@Arob44 I'm assuming you'd want a trial before the shot to the head?

A trial normally requires the VICTIM to be present in the same court room as the offender. This, especially in the cases of rape, is double jeopardy and punishment to the victim. Nobody needs to relive or hear all the gory details of what happened. The sickest of all, are the bastards who rape infants or children under age 5. Nobody ever says it, but the reason so many of these victims die or are killed by the offender is obviously and painfully clear. I have never understood how twisted an adult actually has to become to get jollies and thrills from a child! In my book, it is nothing short of terrorism.

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