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It's great that Obamacare is causing millions of people to lose their health insurance, amirate?

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alilbitdramatics avatar Politics
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I don't know anyone who has lost their coverage. I know dozens who now have coverage thanks o ACA. In our city, most of the people signing up are young and healthy. These are people who used to use the emergency room for free because they had no coverage. They are now paying some or all of their coverage costs.

The chronically ill are already covered by medicaid or medicare and are not changing their coverage. There is no mass exodus from employer based plans.

A worker making $30,000 a year will continue to pay 3.8% or $1180 in taxes for health care. Wall street banker earning $1 Billion a year will now also have to pay 3.8% in taxes on her earnings (she used to pay 0.0003%). Yes that means she will pay $3.8 million in additional taxes instead of only the $3,456. A big jump to be sure, but it seems fair to ask her to pay the same percentage as the janitor who empties her wastebasket. She probably gets her coverage from her employer and the janitor has to buy his own anyways.

Unfortunately the most politically active Americans view our economy as a zero-sum game. They believe that, for their wealth to expand, the expectations and entitlements of the lower and middle classes must fall. That is why so much of the resistance to Obamacare denounces it as a form of redistribution. This is an erroneous position. Increased productivity from healthier workers can increase GNP - it has never been zero-sum.

Ironically, these people would probably be better off if the ACA were even more redistributive. If we could use the hoarded wealth to address drug shortages, antibiotic resistance and other serious problems productivity would increase even more.

The greatest threat to America’s wealthy is not a few more percentage points of taxation. It is a superbug or plague that hits rich and poor alike. A healthier population overall is more productive, and less costly to maintain in the long run.

@VicZinc I don't know anyone who has lost their coverage. I know dozens who now have coverage thanks o ACA. In our city...

Then why aren't all the rich Dems and liberals leading the way and effort by EXAMPLE? How many of them are parting from THEIR wealth to reach this outcome? And why isn't Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and all the other Dems who pushed so hard for Obamacare (I noticed you have bought in to the changed narrative about calling it ACA instead of the signature name it was sold under) willing to sign up for it themselves? Exemptions, postponed deadlines, waivers.....guess you missed all of that. Keep listening and watching. The tsunami is just around the corner - Jan. 2014. Watch the hell and fury. Even you won't be able to avoid the chaos and outrage that your party has created. They did it all by themselves and will have to reap the consequences.

@freespeechfreelancer Then why aren't all the rich Dems and liberals leading the way and effort by EXAMPLE? How many of them are parting...

Got me. I have no idea why anyone wants money. It is the root of all evil. I have no idea why healthcare is not free for everyone. I have no idea why anyone does what they do. I wonder why we think private ownership is a good idea or why the Europeans that landed in the new world 5 centuries ago did not realize it was a paradise and assimilate into that culture instead of ruining it with their western values.

I suspect you are right, it will be chaos. But no worse than the mess we have been in. And I happen to enjoy chaos, which is a catalyst for change. I adore change even more.

By definition conservatives want things to stay the same. Liberals want them to change. For this old bull-headed liberal: the more change the better. Bring on the chaos, bring on the crash of the medical industry, bring on the end of private insurance companies and special privileges for the few and mass starvation for the many. I hope it results in a massive revolt that topples the power structure.

@VicZinc Got me. I have no idea why anyone wants money. It is the root of all evil. I have no idea why healthcare is not...

And why does the NY Times seem to be taking a good hard look at the whole thing in a different light? Staunch Dems and liberals are questioning lots of things that conservatives were trying to warn about way in advance. You may not know anyone who has received a notice or cancellation, but plenty of people DO! And if you are making yourself aware of what is going on, then you have to know it is happening all over. If you have the affluence to ride the storm out, I am happy and glad for you. But plenty of families are being crushed by the news they are receiving. I read about and listen to stories every single day on the radio from/about real people who don't know what they are going to do.
I personally spoke with the man who runs the laundromat I go to every week. His premium for himself and his family, under the new Obamacare, went from $3,000 per month to $13,000! That is just ONE example of real life impact. NOBODY will be able to handle the increases and burdens this "chaos" is generating.
And young people in YOUR area may be flocking to the new plan, but check the stats in other states. NOT EVEN close. Did you see today in the news where Washington state signees are having their bank accounts attacked and auto withdrawn of large amounts of money? Just one of those oversighted "glitches" that will be fixed and improved upon. In the mean time, real people are getting steam rolled by something they did not want and that was forced upon them by a know it all elite on the Hill.
You can keep this kind of change. When people's livelihood is being jeopardized and threatened, this is a change we DON'T need. Some laws should never have been passed, and when they are passed and recognized as failure, they should be eliminated immediately. Unfortunately, liberals and Dems refuse to admit failure or wrongdoing - EVER!
And I hope you will be ready and willing to help pay my bills and feed me when my personal economic status is obliterated by a burden greater than I can bear.

@freespeechfreelancer And why does the NY Times seem to be taking a good hard look at the whole thing in a different light? Staunch Dems...

First of all the NY Post is NOT the NY Times. Second of all, yes I am happy to give every penny I have to help others. I trust I will survive, and if I don't, I have enjoyed every moment of my life.

I found that for me the key to enjoying life is to simply enjoy it.

I love this story:
A man is walking along and slips from the edge of a cliff, catching himself on a branch. I looks ups and sees a hungry tiger looking down at him, he looks down and sees a pack of jackals waiting for him to fall. He looks to the side and sees a single ripe berry dangling from the branch. He plucks it, and touches it to his lips. Ah delicious.

You of all people should believe that your god will not let you fall, and if he does, it is part of his plan.

I have no god so I must be content with the sweet berries I see everywhere I look. Perhaps your god put them there for me, if he did, thank him for me.

@VicZinc First of all the NY Post is NOT the NY Times. Second of all, yes I am happy to give every penny I have to help...

Works for me..............if it works for you.
Yes, I sent the wrong link. The Times has been waffling back and forth as well on which way they want to take a stance now. I am sure 2014 hold many surprises and deciding moments for all.

yeah man

that's totally rad

http://www.amirite.com/124012-w...mirite/1957719

it's nice to see that you haven't changed
the familiarity is comforting

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree +2Reply
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@1967290

That is why college students are just flocking to sign up right?

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@1967785

Who said I assumed anything? Do you not believe that I am capable of reading, listening to news, and making an informed statement based on such input?
I have not seen or heard any reliability from anything you have offered. You love to take pot shots and question everything I have to say, but your views are generally of the "popular" persuasion that tends to lean to the liberal side of issues. I am perfectly fine with that, but please indulge me with the same liberty and slack that you do with all of your left leaning friends and media news sources. Have you signed up for Obamacare and if not, why not? Obama thought the masses would run to his signature legacy, but they have not. Reluctance is perfectly in order when something has been sold on pure lies. If you have not heard or been able to separate the lies from the truth, then I pity you.

@freespeechfreelancer Who said I assumed anything? Do you not believe that I am capable of reading, listening to news, and making an...

Just wondering if you know anyone personally who has had a bad experience, lost their health care, has to pay more now than before?
I have read all the hype.
My family and I "like what we have and were able to keep it".
My brother was able to get coverage without having to disclose his preexisting conditions.
Many where I work got cheaper coverage than what was being offered by our employer.
So I am curious, are you reading and researching, or are you experiencing and living these "horrors" you describe?
Everyone I know has had a good experience with the new system. Yes I have read the stories, but I don't see it happening in my world and wonder if you do?

@VicZinc Just wondering if you know anyone personally who has had a bad experience, lost their health care, has to pay more...

Personally - I don't have any friends where I live, so I can not say yes. I watch liberal and conservative news and read both sides on the internet. I have seen and heard of case after case after case of real people who have been devastated by the new plans. The man who owns the laundromat that I go to told me that his family plan tripled and he was extremely upset.
The government is not even giving us real numbers. They now say 7 million have signed up BUT they include anyone who visits the site as a "sign up." They don't KNOW how many are signed up and they are not telling how many have actually paid a premium. If you have not paid your first month's premium, you are NOT signed up and have NO coverage.
I have very minimal coverage by my employer with a $600 deductible. I have no dental, eye, or extended benefits. My wife (age 60) has not worked since 1998. We thought she would qualify for something, but can not get social security or Obamacare. She just broke her foot last week. I took her to the emergency room and got that treated by me agreeing to pay for the services. Yesterday I took her to see the real doctor (orthopedic specialist), and I could not even walk through the door without paying $50 out of pocket. I have to take her back next week to get another cast, an x-ray, and at least 2 more follow ups after that. The secretary told us we had to pay the balance of the deposit when we go next week ($150) and that will have us paid for the first doctor visit. That does not account for any treatments or x-rays yet. This bill will easily run in to the high hundreds or low thousands, and it will all be out of pocket. If you think or believe for a second that I can afford it or am satisfied, think again. I am at the poverty level in income earnings, and I get hit with any and every tax or program that my government decides to implement. You obviously are in a higher income bracket and don't feel the squeeze and pinch like I do. I cringe each and every day the price of gas rises because that comes right out of my small earnings.
Supposedly Obama wanted ALL Americans to have free health care. If you are honest with me, you know that is the way it was ORIGINALLY presented. America was finally going to compete with and come on board with all the countries that offer free health care to all their citizens. Obamacare has changed so many times since its inception that those in Congress don't even know what is valid or not.
I am very happy that you and your friends are living the dream, can smile and sing all day long, and are oblivious to the pain and suffering that thousands and millions of Americans are feeling by the waste and abuse of our government. But I have yet in my lifetime to experience or be the benefactor of ANY program or supposed help opportunity that liberal Dems say will be available TO and FOR all. They all have qualifiers and stipulations that a 55 year old, born in America, white, English speaking only male never seems to measure up to.

@freespeechfreelancer Personally - I don't have any friends where I live, so I can not say yes. I watch liberal and conservative news and...

First I want to wish your wife speedy and comfortable recovery. Second I want to assure you that I make $8.50 an hour and live a very modest lifestyle. The healthcare plan we have has a $4000 per year deductable so we pay out of pocket for everything.

We smile and sing because life is a treasure. I truely am sorry that you are suffering and would gladly share what I have. Together is the only way I can imagine life. Everyone being together as one human tribe. I am happy because I have all I need and i want for nothing; I have the love and respect of my community I get love because I give love.

@VicZinc First I want to wish your wife speedy and comfortable recovery. Second I want to assure you that I make $8.50 an...

First, thank you for the kind gesture about my wife. You can live in New York on $8.50 per hour? You obviously did not talk about the rest of the story. You either own everything outright, or live in a cardboard box. I have heard you talk about selling a business, so money was involved. You had to have money to get a business, and you had to make money selling it.
I make $9.88 per hour and my wife does not work. Our entire welfare depends on me and what I bring in. I have no previous retirements, no military pension, no savings account, and no assets. We literally live from paycheck to paycheck.
We have a lease to own option on our place and pay $650 per month (the lowest of anyone I have heard of around here). We have an old mini-van (1990) that has motor issues, but it is paid for. We have the cheapest and lowest of everything we can possibly get: auto insurance, taxes on the land we live on, cell phones (still don't own smart phones because of cost), internet, dish TV, gas for van, propane for hot water heater, electric bill, groceries. No trash bill because I take that to work. No water bill because I have a well on the property.
We have no vices (drink, smoke, drugs, gamble), so no money ever goes out for such. We never buy new clothing because we can't afford them. We do not go out to eat or to the movies because we can't afford it. I have not had a real vacation in at least 15 years. I have everything as low as I can possibly figure out how to get it, and my income does not cover the bare necessities.
Most liberals (and I am sure conservatives too) TALK about helping and wanting better for others, but what it translates in to is lining THEIR pockets with the money of taxpayers. And though I know you adore and revere Obama, he has sold us a huge bill of goods. He talks about class warfare and inequality, while he and his family live like royalty. Am I jealous or envious? No - just ticked off that he portrays himself as a commoner and then shoves his extravagance in our faces! I was not taught to respect outright dishonesty or blatant hypocrisy, and I doubt that you were. And yet, everyone seems to have no problem protecting or standing by their man, even when he has shown himself to be incompetent.
Here are 3 links on the healthcare that I looked at just today. The numbers are highly fudged and there is NO way anyone knows what is what about this issue. But I am confident that my government is NOT shooting straight about most things and can not be trusted. I wish it were otherwise, but they created their own reputation - not me.
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-...-politics.html

http://www.theblaze.com/stories...-up-milestone/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories...id-for-a-plan/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories...-but-actually/

I know you don't like the Blaze, but there are some things liberal news is not even reporting or talking about. It is not right for MSM to present one side of every issue, but that is what it has come to. So unless someone is actually looking at liberal and conservative sources, they are simply buying in to an agenda narrative. And if you did not know, Krauthammer used to be a full fledged liberal. He switched for a reason. His story is very inspiring and compelling. You might look in to it.

@freespeechfreelancer First, thank you for the kind gesture about my wife. You can live in New York on $8.50 per hour? You obviously did...

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-...-politics.html

Translation: Boehner complains that his healthcare plan is now only twice as good as VicZinc's instead of 6 times a good.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories...-up-milestone/

Translation: Krautham complains about made up numbers and so he makes up a bunch of more numbers in response.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories...id-for-a-plan/

// Translation: Obamacare succeeds in capturing nearly 25% of the nations uninsured. Amazingly 53 percent of these previously uninsured Americans have actually paid for their new plans only 3 days after the deadline. This will greatly reduce that cost to the working class who previously had to cover the cost of healthcare for these people.//

http://www.theblaze.com/stories...-but-actually/

translation: The filthy rich bastards who will lose billions in healthcare profits have spent well over 10 times as much on ads trying to stop Obamacare as the Democrats spent trying to get people to sign up. ($700,000,000 compared to $53,000,000) one can't help wonder how much more successful the the program would be if we had cooperation instead of competition. Ah well, greed will always win and these fat cats stand to loose a lot! or they would not be spending these //huge amounts of money; you can bet they are not doing it for the "good of the poor people". //

@VicZinc http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-...-politics.html **//Translation: Boehner complains that his healthcare plan is...

And I have seen your exact translations in liberal press, so nothing you said surprised me at all. Again, it all goes back to what your pre-conceived persuasions and leanings are from the onset.

@freespeechfreelancer And I have seen your exact translations in liberal press, so nothing you said surprised me at all. Again, it all...

As I am sure you have noticed my tendency is toward being the devil's advocate. I do agree completely with your last statement: "it all goes back to what your pre-conceived persuasions"
It also goes back to what I said before, knowledge is impossible. We will never know if ACA was good or bad because it is here and so we will never know what it would have been like if it was not.
We just have to live with it for now, and hope that it leads to socialized medicine sooner than later.

@VicZinc As I am sure you have noticed my tendency is toward being the devil's advocate. I do agree completely with your...

This "hope" you speak of sounds very similar to the blind faith that Christians are accused of exercising. Somehow, however, when it is politics, science, or social issues no one sees it that way. Let's all close our eyes, blindly follow those who say they know best (even though they have no proven track record of success or accomplishments), and cheer them as it all unfolds - good or bad. And why do a majority of free citizens have to live with something they clearly don't want just because our new Commandant says so? Why should we stand by and be reduced to a proletariat to serve and empower a corrupt government?
I will never esteem or embrace socialism as a higher or better way than what we have been enjoying for over 200 years.

@freespeechfreelancer First, thank you for the kind gesture about my wife. You can live in New York on $8.50 per hour? You obviously did...

I will check out those links, thanks.

We need not go tit-for-tat with each other. Please remember NY is a big state and I live 300 miles from Manhattan. It sounds like we have similar challenges just different perceptions of what they mean.

My joy comes from understand that no blow can be great enough to crush my spirit and that the only approval I need is my own. Money to me provides no comfort so what I earn goes back to the community as sustenance or gifts.

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@1968083

There is NO objectivity on something that none of us can get any substance about or on. If numbers are being made up by all sides, how do you possibly think the topic can be viewed objectively? No "experts" agree on anything regarding Obamacare, and the White House's position is THEM against US. Our new king is not interested in listening to any side or view other than his OWN. That much we do know.

I don't know of one person whose lost their coverage because of Obamacare. I can, however, give multiple examples of people didn't have insurance because they couldn't afford it that now do, myself included.

Anonymous +1Reply

*emirate

Maybe people will wake up and LOUDLY PROTEST THIS TRAVESTY! Government should be afraid of its people.

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