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The 99% are poor not because of some great injustice, but because a fair share of them are stupid and/or lazy. amrite?

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Can't agree with anything close to 99% being poor because of a lack of intellectual potential, nor because of sloth. A great many of the poor are hardworking citizens, whoever a great many of the remainder are stuck in generational poverty primarily due to lack of effective parenting. by parents, who themselves are the result of the lack of effective parenting. The plight of this segment of the poor is simple, yet very complex to correct. Understand that when we are all babies we have no plan to live in poverty.

The "stupidity" you reference is the mass-hysterical belief that aggrandizing the wealthy will benefit the poor. This is the basic tenet of the GOP and it does not work.

So, therefore anyone in the 99% that votes for right-wing fiscal policy is, as you say, both "stupid" and lazy.
"Stupid" because they are falling for a proven fallacy in economics and
lazy because they are wanting for the wealth to trickle down to them instead of taking to the streets and legally forcing the rich to pay a fair wage.

@VicZinc The "stupidity" you reference is the mass-hysterical belief that aggrandizing the wealthy will benefit the poor...

Talk about yer aggrandizing, I mean whew.
Your hated capitalism has produced the highest standard of living ever to have existed. Millions of Americans are living below the government established poverty line, yet the huge majority of the people in the world today live in much greater poverty. Why is this?
Not because of socialism!

@Daver Talk about yer aggrandizing, I mean whew. Your hated capitalism has produced the highest standard of living ever to...

Oddly enough I have never said capitalism was hated nor have I espoused socialism. I have said that neither works in its purest form.

What I do find despicable is extreme income inequality
no one deserves to starve and no one deserves to have as much money as a billion other people combined. I don't care how lazy the first nor how clever the last. It is patently unfair.

@VicZinc Oddly enough I have never said capitalism was hated nor have I espoused socialism. I have said that neither works...

I must still disagree in principal about income inequality. It is simply a side effect of capitalism, which, IMO is far outweighed by the benefits.

@Daver I must still disagree in principal about income inequality. It is simply a side effect of capitalism, which, IMO...

I agree it is a side effect of capitalism.
Pure unrestricted capitalism, in reality, requires that some members of the society be so destitute that they lie, retching and forgotten like syphilitic dogs in the gutters of our cities.
This is not Calcuta,
this is not Dickinsonian London.
IMO that is not the type of society which I would choose to live. I thank my stars that I do not.

And I praise humanity that most Americans are kind and gentle enough to allow a modicom of civility and grace into our moderate society for if it were up to you and Ayn Rand and Rand Paul a Draconian capitalistic pall would descend upon our cities and the streets would be rife with starvation and disease.

Have you no shame? no smilie

@VicZinc I agree it is a side effect of capitalism. Pure unrestricted capitalism, in reality, requires that some members...

Your right in saying that SOMETHING has to be done to help the truly needy. My thought is that Americans are, as you say very kind and generous to others in need. Guess where we are differing is that IMO people, not government, can most effectively deal with the plight of our poor and truly needy.

@Daver Your right in saying that SOMETHING has to be done to help the truly needy. My thought is that Americans are, as...

The government is the people and we are the government. If you think that is not true than fix that or stop waving the "We the people" flag.

Of course. In Western society (capitalism) it's obviously impossible for everyone to succeed, however it is possible for anyone to succeed. If an individual works hard enough, they will get somewhere.

@Bane Of course. In Western society (capitalism) it's obviously impossible for everyone to succeed, however it is...

Disagree.
Because our society does not value certain skills
and because not everyone has the wherewithal to succeed in a competitive environment.

It is not the case that "anyone" can succeed.
Some people, no matter how talented, creative, and hardworking they are will never earn enough to live above the poverty line.

Examples are everywhere:
artist (musicians, writers, dancers) that are never "discovered"; brilliant mathematicians who leave school to care for an elderly parent
athletes that don't make it in the pros

It is a myth that "anyone who works hard" will be rewarded.
There are people who work 14 hour days sweating blood for their employers and are never paid more than minimum wage.
They just do not have "marketable" intelligence.
That does not mean they are not working hard
it does not mean they are not contributing to society
It means that capitalism is not a "fair" way to value people
It is a fair way to value goods
It is a fair way to value services
It is not a fair way to value humans

@VicZinc Disagree. Because our society does not value certain skills and because not everyone has the wherewithal to...

Your spot on with what a capitalistic system is able to place value on. Humans value each other. not systems. Using the system to artificially increase the value of people in the system, is NOT the best way to help the poor. Churches and private charities abound. You can even volunteer your time if thats all you have to give. The point is to accurately target the truly needy as well as those willing to work on solutions to their own poverty. Governments are unable to target in this way.
The shotgun analogy comes to mind.

@Daver Your spot on with what a capitalistic system is able to place value on. Humans value each other. not systems...

I disagree.
Capitalism is a belief;
it is a willingness on the part of a participant to adhere to a set of principles.
It is not a "system" and
it is not a government.
It is an "ism".

Like any belief system we do not need to take it as a whole (despite what religious and economic extremist think),
you can pick and choose the parts you like.
There are parts of Christianity I like,
parts of socialism I like and
part of capitalism
parts of Buddhism and
parts of humanism.
I don't follow any "one" ism"
to do so, in my opinion, is foolish
no one "ism" can capture the intricacy of the human condition.
I do reject many as a whole
[like sadism and messianism].

You are mistaken, I think, in believing that the "government" and the "people" are two different things.
At least in the USA they are (supposed to be) one-and-the-same.
It is the conservative dilemma that tries to reconcile "we the people" with "governments are not capable."

Rethink your stance
and open your heart to the possibility
that "we the people" can and do care
about our own welfare
about each other
and we are capable of caring for each other through the "system" we have establish as a people.

This post is stupid and/or lazy. Some of the causes of poverty:

  • Low minimum wage
  • Lack of education needed for better paying jobs
  • Flight of middle-class (and employers) out of urban areas
  • Culture of poverty (passed from generation to generation)
  • Welfare might be preferable to demeaning, lower paying jobs

yes. education is value

Lazy? Some, yes. Unwilling to work for their money? Yes. Stupid? No. They know Liberals will give them anything for their votes.

zbackus avatar zbacku Disagree 0Reply

Welfare is more demeaning than any job.

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