+6Cop cleared in chokehold death of Eric GarnerA Staten Island grand jury cleared an NYPD cop in the chokehold death of Eric Garner during his caught-on-video arrest for peddling loose cigarettes, the Staten Island district attorney confirmed W...http://nypost.com/2014/12/03/cop-cleared-in-eric-garner-chokehold-death/
Grand jury's are a strange animal.
They are secret proceedings so that the witnesses can speak more freely.
But don't they have to tell the truth in a regular criminal court?
They are supposed to protect defendants from rogue prosecutors.
But its very unusual that a grand jury will go against the prosecutor, and if they do the prosecutor can still bring the case to criminal court if they want to.
IMO grand jury's should be replaced by preliminary hearings where a judge decides if there is probable cause.
ln the Garner case accountability was tested and failed to indict because there was no chockhold used. There was no intent to harm. Garner was resisting arrest. Garner would be alive right now if he had cooperated with the arrest. Unfortunate is an understatement, but accountability was NOT ignored.
We hope that the grand jury had considered all the data and made the right decision - but recent events have brought into question the possibility that police are being held to a different standard of behavior than the standard I personally would hold them to if I were in charge.
The pursuit of happiness:
Find a market
Fill the demand
Earn a profit
If you go on welfare you are a cheat
If you earn money
selling a product
that is in demand
you are an
unless you don’t look like an entrepreneur
if you look like a guy hustling for a buck on a street corner
we will just kill you.
and the dream ended
Don’t you dare try to earn a living without their permission - without giving them a cut o the action.
I thought you believe in fair taxes? It's stated that the cigarettes were untaxed. Not that what anyone says is believable anyways, including the accusors. Who knows other than those involved whether or not the police officer is innocent or guilty? When it comes to these racial matters people cry in outrage because they see what they want to believe, that the "man" is out to get them.
I don't know. Where did he get the cigarettes? I figured he paid the tax and was selling the Lucy's for profit.
I couldn't tell you. Point is you and i and many others are too far separated to make any judgement calls. It's all he said she said her second cousin's dog groomer heard on the news at this point.
Did you watch the video? The cops attack him with no provocation.
I just watched it now that you asked. Did you notice that the tape was cut immediately beforehand both times it showed the cops move in to subdue him? Why would they cut that out? I don't know what happened before that cut.
From the reports it sounds like back and forth arguing, from Garner and the cops, they had been apparently harassing him continuously for a while, and he was tired of being harassed. But none the less, chokehold are prohibited by the police department in New York. They should have shown some respect to him and tried to convince him to come with them willingly, rather than choke him out. There was no legal way to justify use of force in that case.
Ok so that's what you've read in reports. Now, was it really nothing but back and forth arguing? Remember i'm only refraining from making any judgement calls from speculations.
None of the reports say that Garner in any way threatened the cops, he may have refused to cooperate, but that doesn't give them the right to attack him. If someone had seen something contrary to the video, it would be in a report somewhere.
Maybe it's all true, what you say. But i think it should be left up to those who were there. It's very unfortunate that the man isn't alive to testify for himself but it's too easy to sway people either way regardless of who is guilty. It's my opinion that people who weren't present should not be the one's making any calls on guilt. Everything gets twisted up in the end.
That's the point, there is no testimony, this case is not being tried.
OP doesn't say he's guilty, OP says "hold him accountable" make him account for his actions.
I will hold by my convictions that the officer who contributed in Eric Garner's death had no right to use an illegal chokehold and deserves to be reprimanded appropriately.
That does not change my opinion
that the American dream is dead.
If a person cannot find a market
and freely sell into that market
then entrepreneurship is a myth.
The war on drugs is a ploy
to stop the disenfranchised from making a living
in a market that is dominated by millionaires.
any enterprise that should have
ease of entry is blocked
except to those already
enfranchised into those markets.
The disenfranchised will never be allowed in.
but they will be scorned by society
if they take to the only market
that is truly open to them: "the dole"
Ease the barriers and your will find that people everywhere are resourceful
Ok i'm not trying to change your view there. I'm only commenting on the racial insinuations entwined in this news story. As for my opinion on him peddling cigarettes, in a free for all society that may fly, but it sounds pretty dangerous. Who knows what anyone could have done to them or who he's selling to (minors).
I do agree with you that large corporations make it nigh impossible for the "little guy" to make a living. These days you gotta have a high intellectual capacity and a good ideato pave your own way within the bounds of society. It also helps if you have a "cutthroat" attitude.
um, well it pretty much is a racial problem.
I don't even know what we're debating here anymore. The only point i want to make is that people make judgement calls on things when all they know is what "he said she said" until things get blown out of proportion. We don't know what happened there so we can't comment on it like the op wants us to,
I don't know.
In this case I pretty much feel like I can.
Cops are not held accountable for their actions.
The Blue Code is absolute
and as long as cops and prosecutors
are on the same team
cops will not be held accountable for their actions.
Cops in every city treat people differently
based on race,
that is statistically very hard to argue against
it happens everywhere.
In Ferguson: I don't know for sure what happened.
In the Garner case I am pretty clear that I see a cop using an illegal choke hold
and I hear Mr. Garner state very clearly
that he could not breath
and the cop does not let go.
I can see and hear this clearly in the video,
it is clear as day.
To not a have trail is a miscarriage of justice
I feel that in Ferguson there should have at least been a trail, in the case of Garner,
there should have been a trail
This cop is not being held to account for his actions.
That is not to say he is guilty of a crime
it is to say
he is not being required
to account for his actions.
There is no accounting being required,
and there should be.
Indicting a cop is not the same as finding him guilty.
Send these cases to trial!
Let the cops account for their actions.
Hold them accountable.
Took the words out of my mouth. Cops are getting off far to easy, a slap on the wrists and a paid vacation.
Oh so all i have to do is yell "i can't breathe!"
The tape was immediately cut after that how do you know howlong he was pinned after that?
Not so clear, really. Besides the chokehold anyways. That's all we have on him.
I said in another comment that the tape is cut before the man is taken down what happened before that cut? Everyone has an agenda and i'm not saying all cops in stories like this are free of guilt.
If Eric Garner was fighting with the cops, then yes, during the struggle it would have been ok to use force to subdue him, but the video shows Garner backing away while a cop pushes him, and the other cop jumping him from behind. You're acting like there would be something that could justify that use of force in the cut clip, but that wouldn't be consistent with the rest of the video, and someone would have mentioned it. The fact is, a man is dead from causes directly related to the actions of an officer, and the officer isn't even going to trial. The case with the 12 year old boy, the man leaning on BB-gun in walmart, Michael Brown, Dillon Taylor, and many others, the fact is cops are killing people and not being held accountable, not just in this case, but all over. Cops are just as fallible as the rest of us, and need to be held accountable for their actions that lead to the death of a citizen. I would say anytime a cop has to kill someone where their is not enough evidence to conclusively say the cop was acting in self-defense, or protecting others, that cop should be suspended without pay, pending a trial.
I agree with Vic and Maelthus on this. The point is not that the police did, or did not, do something wrong, the point is we will never know if they did or not. This case will never go to trail. The trial is where these questions about what occurred during the gap in the video; was the choke hold the cause of death; was there justification for the restraint; etc. are asked and answered.
The problem, as Daver points out, is that the grand jury is being used to prevent these cases from going to trail, that is not justice, there is no accountability for the police actions. OP is correct - Cops are not held accountable for their actions.
Because of the close relationship between the police and the DA, there needs to be an automatic trail for all police caused deaths, and there needs to be a special prosecutor who is not beholding to the PD, or there will never be a just process for these occurrences and the cops will always be above the law.
Shouting "I can't breath"
is the usually way to alert someone
that they are choking you
or that you are in respiratory distress.
It's not like Eric was
going to run away and hide.
and give him some room.
How d'you know they didn't? It's mot shown in the video. We weren't there
you must be looking at a different video that I am.
In the video he is choked to death.
No CPR? No first aid? Not nice
Yea i watched the video in the article in the op. I'm sure the video you posted is clear enough for most to come to a conclusion.
There is a second video where you see what happens afterwards, for about 7 minutes the cops and ems just kind of watch him lying there not moving just gasping for air.