What is your reason for belief, or lack of belief in a god/gods. And why should that be a reason others should convert to your way of thinking?

I personally am an atheist, simply because I have examined the evidence I have been presented with, and found better explanation through logic, and science, or because the arguments from theists are often flawed, and unsound. So I have a disbelief in a deity, because I have never been given a reason to think one exists, that didn't stem from, ignorance, fear, or down right lies. But I would like to hear more, and be open to civil, and courteous debate over the validity, and soundness of these arguments. If you will be offended if someone insults your religion, please DO NOT COMMENT, because we all know when talking about religion, there will inevitably be people who insult each other's beliefs. Please refrain from insulting the individual, only their beliefs are up for debate, no name calling cussing each other out, etc. I hold firm in my belief, that no belief, including the one I just put forth, should not be subject to ridicule, and scrutiny. Thank you all, and let the debates begin.

Maelthuss avatar Religion
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Sorry in advance for the length and any grammar mistakes made in this post.

I feel that science can explain a lot behind the reasons for belief of anything from God to ghosts. Many people say they see angels visit them to speak prophecy (Mary anyone?) but yet there are things like sleeping paralysis which causes hallucinations, and anybody can get them and they're not all that rare. Near death experiences can be explained away by science too, the most common theme in near death experiences is the white light (going to heaven) but tunnel vision can occur when blood and oxygen flow is depleted to the eye, and that happens due to extreme fear (causes stress and your brain to switch priorities on blood flow, etc) and also lack of oxygen both of which occur when you're dying. And studies has shown that out of body experiences can be activated when stimulating the right temporoparietal junction http://www.jneurosci.org/content/25/3/550.full ,
and another study didn't even need to do that to stimulate an out of body experience; all they did was have participants wear VR goggles and show them their body in another place and that made them "feel" like they were outside their body http://phys.org/news107099946.html,
and then of course we have evolution, space, new planets we keep finding due to new technology. This article is interesting to read about finding new galaxies, planets, stars, etc in space http://www.popularmechanics.com...-see-16105099/

Some believe that the "6 days" of creation is a metaphor and that God works hand in hand with evolution (he "caused" it) but I can't find anything that would prove that and I do believe that suggestion is a form of cognitive dissonance. It's impossible to say the world was created in 6 days when we are finding things in space that are 13 billion years old, so people change the way they interpret the bible so they can have those two things co-exist with each other.

The biggest thing for me as an atheist is proof. If tomorrow the Christian God came down and showed himself and I could 100% prove it was real and not an OBE (out of body experience) or an hallucination or due to trauma or mental illnesses or anything else that could change my perception then I would have to believe. But if that ever occurs the harder question is, does belief equal worship? If everything in the Bible is true, would I want to worship a deity that drowned the world, that condoned slavery, that thought raped women should marry their rapist, etc. And then what if it's not the Christian God that is real? What if its Allah, or Buddha, or the Hindu God Krishna. And now we can go back to another reason why I disbelieve; there are so many different Gods out there that nobody can confirm the amount. How can we know which religion or God(s) is "wrong". Why do people believe the Christian God is any more valid than the Hindu Gods, or the Greek Gods. That's got to because of how they were raised. Now obviously this isn't going to be a 100% because every person will have different experiences which will lead to different outcomes (like I was raised in a religious household but now am not, and the only one in my family to not be) but the reason most believe what we do is based on what we are taught. And if you're taught the God your parents believe in is right, especially at an early age where it's easier to fall susceptible to extraordinary claims, then you're going to believe that when you're older too. So that's why I disbelieve in Gods.

@Maelthus I enjoyed the read, thank you for adding the links.

Glad you enjoyed it. And I always include links when discussing science/studies because I've had a lot of instances of people accuse me of lying to suit my opinions :)

So I guess I'm the first one to post that they believe in God...awkward.

To acknowledge some of the other commenters above me: Yes. There are lots of reasons to not believe in God. Yes, you may not have seen any scientific proof that God exists.

One of my favorite quotes is "If you look for the light, you can often find it. IF you look for the dark, it's all you will ever see." I think it's the same with God. You have to open your heart and mind in order to see him.

Some say that there is no reason to believe in God. Well, for me, there is no reason to NOT believe in God. He has answered my prayers. Not all of them, but some of the more important ones.

When I was 11, I moved to another state and had the worst time making friends. I prayed to God to ask him to reveal a friend to me. When I was 12, at lunch one day, I walked up to a group of girls sitting at a table. As soon as I sat down, they all got up and moved one table over. The next day at lunch, I walked up to a different girl that I had a class with, and asked "Is it okay if I sit with you?" Her response was, "I want you to." I knew that was God. I became really good friends with that group of girls, and they were my first line of defense in middle school.

Still, I didn't really have someone I could call my best friend. I prayed for God to send me a best friend. At 13, I met KT. We are still best friends at 19, even though we are now at different colleges. We are each other's 2 a.m.

At the start of the fall semester, I constantly prayed about deciding a major. I had the worst time trying to commit to one thing for the rest of my life. I was debating between English and Psychology. One day, I was walking to class, and this random girl I have never seen before came up to me and started talking to me like she'd known me for months. She asked me about my major. I explained my situation to her. She shrugged her shoulders and said, "Do both". Then we parted ways without me even knowing her name, and I have never seen that girl since. I knew that was God sending me a message. I am now double majoring in psychology and English (Creative Writing) and have decided to become a child psychologist and a writer when I grow up (if I ever do. ha.).

These past few months at college have been terrible for me. I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety in November. I had trouble making friends, keeping up with my schoolwork (once I even forgot about a test. Like, completely and totally forgot about it. I didn't even study for it), eating right, and I even had trouble getting out of bed before 2 p.m. on most days. I have been keeping that from my parents. We have been fighting about college for years now. I have been praying to God for months to help me; to help me manage my stress, to help me find a place that feels right, to help me find the path that he has in store for me, and most of all, to help me be happy. Tonight, I received my acceptance letter from the Disney College Program. I am the happiest I have been since...Junior year, maybe? Two Decembers ago? I'm going to be living at the Happiest Place On Earth for half a year. I don't have to be at my personal hell of a school for a whole semester. That was God. I swear to you, that was 100% God answering my prayers.

I know that God has been in each and every one of your lives. You probably just haven't opened your eyes to him, yet. It even took me a while to realize that my prayers have been answered.

@BetterThanEzra1119 So I guess I'm the first one to post that they believe in God...awkward. To acknowledge some of the other...

I'm not trying to take anything from your experiences, but when I was younger, I was very into my church, I really believed everything I was taught, I would go on every mission trip, and preach to people, hoping to win souls for God. But when I stopped going to church, mostly because of the politics, and bigotry of the southern baptist churches around me, I started thinking about why I had faith, I looked at experiences, that I credited God with, like good grades, getting better from being sick, healing people I prayed for, and innumerable other things. Then I thought about the prayers that weren't answered, and how the were far more in number than those that were. And once I thought about the laws of probability, and the other factors, like the doctors who operated on my knee had years of training, and schooling, that the medicines I took for my sicknesses, were specially designed for combating the cause of the diseases, that the doctors treating my friends and family deserved the credit, and my studying and my learning and hardwork got me the good grades. I think that if God makes you feel better that's great, but I think it was the confidence, that you had God, that helped you make friends, I think it's the hard work you put into your education that got you into the Disney program. I think it was your choice to do both English and psychology as a major, because you enjoy them, not because God wanted you to pick those. I just feel, and this is my personal belief, that you deserve far more credit for the person you are, and are becoming, than you are giving yourself.

@Maelthus I'm not trying to take anything from your experiences, but when I was younger, I was very into my church, I really...

I view it as more of a teamwork-relationship. It is through God that I am able to have the courage find the path he has for me. I can't just sit on my butt all day and think that because I prayed I'm going to get everything I want. I have to listen to what God says, then take that and go out and take action.

@BetterThanEzra1119 I view it as more of a teamwork-relationship. It is through God that I am able to have the courage find the path he...

That I understand, but is it possible that God was just a psychological push you gave yourself in order to be more courageous, outgoing, and decisive, which led to your friendships, the choice of your major, and the opportunity at Disney? Whenever I receive these arguments for God, I can only attribute them to the placebo effect and the function of our brain that seeks out patterns where they don't exist. Again, I'm just posing questions, not trying to offend you or your faith, I'm simply asking how you know it's not the placebo effect and the other function of the brain?

@Maelthus That I understand, but is it possible that God was just a psychological push you gave yourself in order to be more...

Well, there are some things in life that you can't control. I can't control other people to be friends with me. I couldn't control that one girl to come up and talk to me. I couldn't control whether I got accepted or not.

When I prayed to God, I asked him to set me on his path. I believe that those scenarios happened because they are apart of God's plan for me.

I believe that when things are going great for you, that's God telling you that you are on the right track. When bad things keep happening to you, maybe that's God telling you that you're on the wrong path.

Maybe that answer doesn't satisfy you, but that's what I know to be true.

@BetterThanEzra1119 Well, there are some things in life that you can't control. I can't control other people to be friends with me. I...

Again I must remark, while yes there are things out of your control, there are an infinite number of factors that play a role in any event, and if any of those events had not taken place, it would not present as evidence to the contrary of your beliefs. There randomness within the world, unless you are consigning yourself to the view of God is literally guiding all actions of all living things, and all responses of non-living matter, which leads to another debate entirely, but if there is randomness, how do you determine the things in life that are random, and the things that are of God? I personally think it has more to do with you appearing as an approachable individual (as to why the girl came to talk to you,) and that you have, in yourself, the qualities that the Disney project was looking for in their applicants, because you worked on yourself. That is just the way I see those events, and to myself, it seems far more likely that a divine intervener causing good things to occur.

@Maelthus Again I must remark, while yes there are things out of your control, there are an infinite number of factors that...

For me, it was more of the feeling I got when I experienced those things. It's hard to explain. It was just a gut feeling. I KNOW it was God. If you have never experienced that, or if you are not open to experience that, then my heart goes out to you.

@BetterThanEzra1119 For me, it was more of the feeling I got when I experienced those things. It's hard to explain. It was just a gut...

I'm open to the experience, though I am to knowledgeable to concede that because of a feeling it must be true. I've had the feeling that someone was watching me when no one was there, however that is explained through the science of psychology. I've also had the experience of Deja Vu, however I never experienced that action prior to the event. No matter how strong the feeling is, it is unreasonable to base my life and beliefs on a feeling. Reason and logic dictates that we must require independent evidence to support those experiences, before we can be rational in beliving them to be true.

Again I don't want to offend you, but this is one small reason that I can't believe in a god, if the only way he presents himself, requires me to suspend the reason and logic he supposedly gave me, I just can't understand that.

@Maelthus I'm open to the experience, though I am to knowledgeable to concede that because of a feeling it must be true. I've...

Alright. I was in no way trying to change your mind. If you don't want to believe in God, then you won't, and I understand that. I hope I answered your questions! If you have any more, I'd be willing to try my best to answer them.

@BetterThanEzra1119 Alright. I was in no way trying to change your mind. If you don't want to believe in God, then you won't, and I...

Well my question is how do you distingush from those phenomena like déjà Vu, and the feeling of someone watching you when no one is there?

@Maelthus Not to sound arrogant, I'm just wondering how you, personally, determine the difference.

Because it's not the same feeling as someone watching you.

Do you believe in signs? (I'm guessing not) It's kind of like that.

I am a feeling person. I feel my way through life. A believer who is a thought person or a physical proof person or an analytical believer who goes strictly by the Bible will probably give you a different answer. I know my world through emotion. They say that emotions can be misleading, but I have never experienced that. If I got a good feeling about something, it turned out to be good. If I had a bad feeling about something, it turned out to be bad.

@BetterThanEzra1119 Because it's not the same feeling as someone watching you. Do you believe in signs? (I'm guessing not) It's kind...

Again not to be dismissive, but that sounds like self-fulfilling prophecy. The power of positivity, it doesn't mean that the thinking makes the outcome any better, but it makes you look for the positive in wry situation.

I also understand that the feeling isn't the same as déjà Vu or as though someone is watching you, but, how do you determine its not just your senses tricking you.

@Maelthus Again I must remark, while yes there are things out of your control, there are an infinite number of factors that...

I have a problem with people that are arrogant enough to believe this god is helping them while ignoring all the suffering in the world..

@BetterThanEzra1119 So I guess I'm the first one to post that they believe in God...awkward. To acknowledge some of the other...

So, this god "Answered " some of your prayers.. do you really believe this god pays attention to you while ignoring the millions of children starving, being raped, murdered?????? You must be very special....

@clayslayer So, this god "Answered " some of your prayers.. do you really believe this god pays attention to you while ignoring...

lets not get hostile man. arguing the morality of a god doesnt disprove it its just gonna upset people.

@TheRedJester lets not get hostile man. arguing the morality of a god doesnt disprove it its just gonna upset people.

I cant help it if it does upset people, its about time they wake up a face reality.."Woe is me" woe is me" you don't believe what I believe woe is me...when are they going to stop claiming to be victims.. they get what they ask for..

@clayslayer I cant help it if it does upset people, its about time they wake up a face reality.."Woe is me" woe is me" you...

i dont see that here i see a woman who is grateful for everything she has and has made it through. as i see it your statement to her isnt about her being fine it the opposite it seems your the one pointing out that she and others are a victim of a cruel world, people or god who doesnt care to help them. their are certainly people who fit what you claim and think they are being persecuted but thats a slim minority. if anything i feel like you feel your somehow the victim of a world run by religious people. your just acting so angry and impolite.

@TheRedJester i dont see that here i see a woman who is grateful for everything she has and has made it through. as i see it your...

Oh! I am greatful for everything I have.. I earned it.. no god gave it to me..Angry why do people like you think because we don't go along with your fairy tales that we are angry.. actually I pity you.. delusional people need help.. The religious have been running things for a long time. and look at the mess the world is in..

Then the arrogance of someone to think this God takes care of them.. while ignoring the rest of the world.. it seems they are saying Look at me,, I am so special this god tends to me but screws everyone else...LMAO

@clayslayer Oh! I am greatful for everything I have.. I earned it.. no god gave it to me..Angry why do people like you think...

what makes you think im religious? even if i was your just using the excuse to alienate others who dont agree with your approach convert people to atheism. this simple fact is the world is a mess and always has been and always will be, and their will always be people who wish to blame it on someone or something. its easy to say it their fault but in the end we made this world together and you have had your part to play in its ups and downs as much as anyone else. even in a world without gods their would be the sick the hungry and the poor. suffering doesnt stop just because people stop believing in a concept even if religion was gone this very second we would still have the same problems to deal with. brutality apathy malice and selfishness are thing everyone is capable regardless of their faith or lack of it. this them or us mentality is the delusion that has us in this state not gods or philosophies. if you truely pitted anyone you would treat people with more respect.

@TheRedJester what makes you think im religious? even if i was your just using the excuse to alienate others who dont agree with...

If you are not religious, you do a good job of pretending and defending it.. so it points to being one of the sheep..if the shoe fits wear it. if not cast it aside...LMAO

@clayslayer If you are not religious, you do a good job of pretending and defending it.. so it points to being one of the...

there is nothing wrong with taking an interest in both sides. im just playing damage control people like you are the reason everyone thinks atheists are angry mean spirited people. you claim to fight for reason then never give logical arguments citations or scientific evidence to back up your claims lets face it all you are is emotion just like them. others on here can respectfully give their atheist stance based on logical reasoning like Sobriquet.

@clayslayer I cant help it if it does upset people, its about time they wake up a face reality.."Woe is me" woe is me" you...

Since y'all are talking about me, I guess I should step in here.

I was never claiming that my situations were the worst thing that could happen to anybody in the entire world. But it's not a competition. Everyone has different experiences. But that doesn't mean you get to tell me that I don't deserve to be upset about what happened to me. Until you suffer from depression, you will never know what it's really like. The confusing thing about depression is that sometimes you don't even have a reason to be sad. You just are. And you can't help it.

@clayslayer Depression = Mental problems.

Are you trying to use that as an insult? Depression does not mean that I lack intelligence, it just means that I experience and cope with things a little differently than you might. In fact, there have been studies done trying to prove a correlation between people with a high I.Q. and depression. I am a part of the honors college program at my university. I made the Dean's list two semesters in a row. I also graduated in the top 15% (out of 421) from my high school. I could have graduated high school a semester early, but choose not to. I have a few poems and short stories that have won various academic awards and I was even published locally twice. I can assure you I am not dumb.

It is people like you that are the reason why mental illnesses have a stigma. I can and have achieved much despite my depression. I am not my illness.

Next time you should think before you try using someone's mental illness as an insult.

@BetterThanEzra1119 Are you trying to use that as an insult? Depression does not mean that I lack intelligence, it just means that I...

many metal people are intelligent.. has nothing to do with the mental problem.. depression is an illness. and treated with medication.. have you took yours today??

I truly fell sorry for those with mental illnesses.. please try to recognize your problem.. you can get help.
Depression leads to many disasters...

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@2042207

psychiatrist have declared that Religious beliefs lead to schizophrenia,, and all the patients suffering from it have religious beliefs..

@clayslayer So, this god "Answered " some of your prayers.. do you really believe this god pays attention to you while ignoring...

I do feel very grateful that God answered some of my prayers.

As for those starving and being raped: I can't completely answer your question there. All I know is that it is the devil, not God, that makes bad things happen. And I know that God does not allow pain without something better to replace it.

@BetterThanEzra1119 I do feel very grateful that God answered some of my prayers. As for those starving and being raped: I can't...

why don't you people answer the question.. why does this god allow the Devil to do the terrible things.. not much of a god that would do that...so the devil doea all the bad and this god does nothing to stop it, that is unless you are a very special person that this god pays attention to..while ignoring the rest of the world...LOL If this god could prevent suffering and evil and wont, then it is not worthy of the title of God or to be revered in any way..

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@2042219

as I said before, at age 8, religion didnt make any sense to me, and no one could answer any of my questions without a large amount gibberish and lip service...notice how they use BS and excuses in all their answers..The best one is.." It Is not ours to question"... that way they will never know anything

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@2042449

Nobody made you do anything. You chose to become atheist.

@BetterThanEzra1119 I do feel very grateful that God answered some of my prayers. As for those starving and being raped: I can't...

does that make you special knowing this god answered your prayers
but ignored world while doing it??? The devil is a imaginary as this god.. what god allows the most innocent to suffer, while helping granny find her car keys...LMAO

@clayslayer A fine example of this god doing nothing while it helps "special " people...

Man has dominion over the Earth. It is man that allows starvation - not God.

Would you like to help?
https://donate.feedthechildren....campaign=paid/

@Budwick Man has dominion over the Earth. It is man that allows starvation - not God. Would you like to...

why would your omnipotent god, allow it though.. it does nothing to stop it.. It must be a week asss to have man do everything for it..LMAO,, if it doesn't help, what the hell good is it other than feed a delusion..??

@clayslayer why would your omnipotent god, allow it though.. it does nothing to stop it.. It must be a week asss to have man do...

I wonder if your question is sincere. I doubt it, but here we go.

Your opinion notwithstanding, God gave Man dominion over the Earth. That means that Man works on his own, without interference from God. If God were to interfere, He would be breaking His own rules.

So, with all that concern you have for starving people, did you donate to Feed The Children? It's up to plain old people like you and me to do it. Complaining that someone else isn't doing it on your behalf doesn't help.

@Budwick I wonder if your question is sincere. I doubt it, but here we go. Your opinion notwithstanding, God gave Man...

More excuses.. you people can make up more crap excusing your god for doing nothing..I do my share of taking care of and helping others, because I know damn well this imaginary god isn't going to do a damned thing.. and I don't need a god to tell me that I should help my fellow man,, if one needs a god to know this, they have a mental problem..

@clayslayer More excuses.. you people can make up more crap excusing your god for doing nothing..I do my share of taking care...

You sound rather angry Clay.

So, with all that concern you have for starving people, did you donate to Feed The Children? It's up to plain old people like you and me to do it. Complaining that someone else isn't doing it on your behalf doesn't help. Even $10 bucks would save a childs life Clay. Will you save a childs life today Clay? Why not donate $20 to save two kids - they will appreciate thata lot more than your bitching about God.

@Budwick You sound rather angry Clay. So, with all that concern you have for starving people, did you donate to Feed The...

stop defending your DO NOTHING god and answer the question.. why doesn't this loving god of yours do something to actually help the sick and suffering?? I know,, you have no freaking Idea.. so I don't need your lip service and excuses any more.. either prove your assertions of go away.. I give more to youth, than you could ever dream of.. you have no clue..I am sick and tired of people like you saying your God is so wonderful, and you cant prove it, and it does nothing.. I pity you.. you need medical attention..they have medications for your delusions..

@clayslayer stop defending your DO NOTHING god and answer the question.. why doesn't this loving god of yours do something to...

I did answer the question Clay. And, it seems to have only made you more angry. God gave Man dominion over the Earth - period. God is steadfast, he doesn't change his mind or break promises.

How silly of you to demand proof. You don't even believe God exists! And, I've told you why God doesn't intervene. Taking care of those starving children is Mans responsibility.

Since you already donate so much already, maybe you could make yourself feel better and less angry if you were to share with everyone how it feels to give so much love and charity. Maybe share a story or two about the children you have saved - to encourage others to follow your example.

@Budwick I did answer the question Clay. And, it seems to have only made you more angry. God gave Man dominion over the...

Again the same old rhetoric.. point the finger back at me.. you have no proof, you can get any proof,, so you sing and dance around the questions.. Why doesn't your god answer prayers and heal amputees???

I cant wait to see the lip service you will spew out.. more BS and excuses and no answers... what is your excuse for your god not healing anyone??? what is your excuse for this god not helping anyone ?? If you keep with that "NON interference crap" then you contradict yourself.. so stay off of that one..If this god of yours is so great, what is it doing??

@clayslayer Again the same old rhetoric.. point the finger back at me.. you have no proof, you can get any proof,, so you sing...

You have the answer and have rejected it and God a number of times. Demanding an answer to a question that's already been answered is kind of nutty, don't you think?

Maybe this will help. I don't care if you accept my answer or not. In matters like this, I can toss you a life ring, but you're kind of obliged to grab onto it.

If you are too stupid or belligerent to help yourself, I can't help you any further.

@Budwick You have the answer and have rejected it and God a number of times. Demanding an answer to a question that's...

You rablings bore me.. you cannot prove your god exists, and call me stupid?? You are the one with the mental delusions.. not me.. same old rhetoric,, push it off on the one asking questions.. typical of a jerk.. no need in boring me any longer with your lip[ service and empty rhetoric,, good by,, have a good day..

@BetterThanEzra1119 So I guess I'm the first one to post that they believe in God...awkward. To acknowledge some of the other...

Congratulations on your acceptance! I really enjoyed reading your response. It was very touching, and you shouldn't feel awkward at all about believing in God. You're right about how it takes a while to realize that you can't find God by reason...He's here. He's all around us. Within each and every one of us. Just because we can't see him doesn't mean he isn't here. Faith is about knowing that things will get better through prayer and realizing that there is something out there bigger than all of us. It's really a beautiful thing. smile smilie

@Dami I go to church occasionally but all I really need is my faith.

I would go to church if I found one where I felt I belonged in.

And I do believe that you should worship with others in order to increase understanding of the bible and build Godly relationships.

@BetterThanEzra1119 I would go to church if I found one where I felt I belonged in. And I do believe that you should worship with...

Church is extra for me. I go on special occasions. I hate how they expect us to put money in. Lol Why do we need to give our money away just to attend a service? Also, I get tired of sitting for long periods of time. In a way it feels a lot like school.

So what religion are you? I feel like you're going to say Christian.

@Dami Church is extra for me. I go on special occasions. I hate how they expect us to put money in. Lol Why do we need to...

Yep. I'm a methodist.

And the donations vary upon church to church, but sometimes they go to charities and organizations or scholarships for other members.

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@1991601

If there is a god, it is Nature.. Immutable, cruel, non judgmental, impartial, yet beautiful at the same time... Not some mystical being with a magic wand.. that does nothing to warrant the title of a God...

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@2041658

Well even my dad has said that... The New Testament is especially added on to by man.

To me, God is the transcendental feeling Emerson talks about, or the concept of "the sublime." (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/...8philosophy%29)

It's the feeling you get when you're on a hike through the forest, or you read an amazing book, or you're looking at the night sky, or you're out with friends. It's a sense of peace and calm and awe that cannot be expressed in words. This is something everyone experiences, an inability to articulate the beauty or wholeness of the moment, and it's completely unrelated to religion. But, in my eyes, this sublime feeling, and these moments, are God.

I can completely understand a big disagreement with that, because feelings are not quantifiable. And that's fine—I am not trying to convert anyone or ask anyone to agree with me. I'm just sharing how I experience God.

I think you can seek out and see God in everything around you, even without being religious or wanting to be. I have felt him when I've prayed and when I've asked to. Not always, but when I've really needed him. And someone said this above, but you can feel him when he's working in your life. For example: When you decide to take a new way to get somewhere and end up meeting someone who becomes a friend, or a romantic partner, or someone important in your life. To me, that's God. That's his plan in action.

I believe in God because I chose too.

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@2019033

Religion is the Original Ponsi Scheme... Pay now for a profit in the future.. LOL

DEFINITION of 'Ponzi Scheme' A fraudulent investing scam promising high of return with little risk to investors

My reason for
lack of believe
cannot convert others
to my way of thinking.
Only thinking can convert them.

I lack believe based on
the complete fallibility
of these factors:

  • the human sensorium
  • human recollection
  • human's ability to communicate ideas

Based on the suspected lack of reliability
of these three items (and others)
I find the concept of "belief"
to be untenable.

Therefore I choose to believe nothing.

@TheRedJester you just made 3 bullet point youd have to believe for you unbelief to make sense.

As I said
Based on the suspected lack of reliability
of these three items (and others)
I find the concept of "belief"
to be untenable.

I suspect them, I don't believe them

anything is possible
even if highly unlikely

I don't believe in a deity because i have no reason to. If i thought it would do me good i may possibly believe.
I'm not an imaginitive individual i cannot close my eyes and imagine i'm talking to someone who i can't touch see smell or feel.
It gives me no strength to try and imagine that someone is out there watching over us.
All this along with what vic said.
I pick and choose for myself what is right and wrong based on what i can see hurts or doesn't hurt other people. I won't change my way of living otherwise because someone says a higher being says it's right or wrong.

I don't believe in a god or gods because I see no reason to. If other see reason to, I have no desire to make them see otherwise.

It has never been logical to me to believe in any deities. I was not raised to be religious. I have attended different churches over the years but none of it has ever made sense to me.

I used to be Christian about a year ago. But I became an atheist because there was no evidence to back up what I believed in. But I see no reason to change other's opinions since it doesn't really effect me.

I believe in something greater, what that is I have no idea, I have no proof and although Christianity was passed onto me from my parents, my belief is very unlike theirs, I would call it more spirituality than religion. What is your reason for loving someone? Its no one specific thing in many cases its not even something that you can name, but none the less you love them. I don't think you should ever desire to convert others to your way of thinking, a belief is personal, you may wish to share it with others but that does not mean you need to convince them that they are wrong and you are right. You can believe in a God, Gods, Goddess, Big Bang, Science or anything which you choose to have faith in, but there's that little word that makes all the difference, YOU. You can believe that the sun revolves around the earth if you wish, you can take into account scientific proof, or you can choose to ignore it, you can build a spaceship and check it out for yourself and still believe the earth is the centre of the solar system, because its all up to you to do with the evidence as you wish, the only problem is what to pass on when raising your kids...

asking for a reason to believe in someones faith when all you will accept is concrete evidence? someone needs to do some research on epistemology. proving belief is a paradox once you do then you havent. if a belief was provable then its not a belief. the challenge itself is inherently unfair.
with that said the flying spaghetti monster has the most believable theology if you ask me for a few reasons.

1- all scientific proof to the contrary is inherently invalid as the fsm is the one putting it there in the first place to confuse/mess with scientists.

2-their is no inherently bad moral constraints upon its people.

3-pirates are great, beer is good, and pasta is tasty.

4-there are no known bad side effects from being pastafarian.

5-all problems involving god being perfect all powerful all knowing and all loving in a imperfect world with suffering are not there as hes not perfect and he was drunk off his a ss when he created the universe.

This god could not be perfect.. A perfect god that creates an imperfect world is illogical.. Perfection demands perfection..

@clayslayer This god could not be perfect.. A perfect god that creates an imperfect world is illogical.. Perfection demands...

why is that? cant an all powerful god make something imperfect if it wanted to if not then its not all powerful. that would bring up the interesting question of why a perfect being would want to make and imperfect system for sure though. secondly he said god or gods which implies we are not only talking about the "perfect aberhamic gods" but other gods who dont claim to be all perfect powerful knowing and good. for example zues thor and thoth.

@TheRedJester why is that? cant an all powerful god make something imperfect if it wanted to if not then its not all powerful...

Think, instead of making excuses for this god.. If something is Perfect. every thing about it must be perfect. or it is no longer perfect..

@clayslayer Think, instead of making excuses for this god.. If something is Perfect. every thing about it must be perfect. or...

most gods arent perfect. id say the majority of all the god in history where imperfect, some where kind some where mean and some where in between or indifferent. some we powerful but none had all the power. some where smart but none where all knowing. also as i stated before why does a perfect all powerful god have to make perfect things? if he is true perfection then all would fall short and nothing would have been made. your not using logic any more than they are your just raw emotion and repetition. if you speak for logic use logic not ad homenims and moral questioning. both those things are completely in effective.

@TheRedJester most gods arent perfect. id say the majority of all the god in history where imperfect, some where kind some where...

The reason Gods are imperfect because they are a manifestation of the Human mind.. Which could not get their stories straight enough for their gods to be Perfect...LMAO

If anything is perfect it cannot spawn imperfection.. to do so renders it imperfect, Perfection demands perfection..Skew it anyway they want...

yhr

@clayslayer The reason Gods are imperfect because they are a manifestation of the Human mind.. Which could not get their...

your just as bad as the religous people all your statements are circular reasoning all amounting to because i said so.

@TheRedJester your just as bad as the religous people all your statements are circular reasoning all amounting to because i said so.

look up the word perfect.. something is either perfect or it is imperfect.. there is no in between... no circular logic in that..

@clayslayer look up the word perfect.. something is either perfect or it is imperfect.. there is no in between... no circular...

n. 1:having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.

notice how it says nothing about it needing to make everything perfect.

@TheRedJester n. 1:having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to...

The word does not make anything.. the word is descriptive of the person.."Perfect God" " once perfection is violated it is no longer perfect... Jeeeeeez...

@clayslayer The word does not make anything.. the word is descriptive of the person.."Perfect God" " once perfection is...

like i said. a perfect being is not required to make perfect beings that is not part of the definition of perfect.

Then did you like that creflo dollar asked his congregation for money for a new jet and got it, it's nice, so he can do missionary work overseas. Well it's your choice, we are all saints and going to the same place.

My reason for belief in God in because I grew up in a religious home. My mother is a very pious woman and she taught us to have faith in life. There was a point in time I considered myself Agnostic, but I have returned to my roots because it feels like home. When I am all alone praying, I can feel the warmth and comfort of God embracing me. He is letting me know that everything is going to be okay. I've been tempted to give up many times, but I didn't because I know that things will go smoothly as long as I leave matters in God's hands. Also, I find it truly romantic how two people marry and commit to each other under the name of God. Also, God is a patriotic symbol of America. "In God we Trust..." NO ONE ELSE. But in God. I will add that my being religious doesn't really affect anyone else. I don't broadcast my faith or try to change anyone else's POV. Maybe faith isn't for everyone and I won't disrespect someone or cut ties with them for being a different religion than me or for lacking faith. It's simple. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but to be rude and insensitive is very uncalled for. There is no need whatsoever to make someone else feel bad for something that you don't understand.

@Dami My reason for belief in God in because I grew up in a religious home. My mother is a very pious woman and she...

Again the Lame "You don't understand" actually you are the one that doesn't understand reality..You wish to live in a fantasy world all arrogant in thinking this god is watching over you while ignoring the rest of the world...Now that right there is funny...

@Dami I didn't say he watches over just me. God watches over everyone.

and you have proof of this claim?? And Just what does this god do for anyone??? seems it neglects most of the people, while embracing you...LMAO

@clayslayer and you have proof of this claim?? And Just what does this god do for anyone??? seems it neglects most of the...

"seems it neglects most of the people, while embracing you...LMAO"

And you are still missing the point. You say people get neglected but blessings happen everyday. Of course it's going to seem your way when you have a negative mind that only focuses on what goes wrong in the world.

No reason to really. Weak defense of a god existing and it's less likely that one or more does.

@Yami_no_KoHime Not by a deity for sure.

Yami - There are but three possible answers to this question: (1) the Universe is eternal; it has always existed and will always exist; (2) the Universe is not eternal; rather, it created itself out of nothing; (3) the Universe is not eternal, and did not create itself out of nothing; rather, it was created by something (or Someone) anterior, and superior, to itself.

To which do you subscribe?

@Budwick Yami - There are but three possible answers to this question: (1) the Universe is eternal; it has always existed...

actually there is another option you should check out the big crunch theory. its basically a phoenix type universe where it contracts to a sing point and is reborn in an explosion then repeats this forever.

@TheRedJester actually there is another option you should check out the big crunch theory. its basically a phoenix type universe...

Sounds like an extension or modification of the Big Bang. You still end up with the same questions though. How did it start?

@Budwick Sounds like an extension or modification of the Big Bang. You still end up with the same questions though. How...

kinda its like the big bang plus the always existing universe theory combined.

i like this video it explains it pretty well near the end of it.

YouTube video thumbnail

@TheRedJester kinda its like the big bang plus the always existing universe theory combined. i like this video it explains it...

The most comfortable position for the person who does not believe in God is the idea that the Universe is eternal, because it avoids the problem of a beginning or ending, and thus the need for any “first cause” such as God. In fact, it was to avoid just such a problem that evolutionists Thomas Gold, Hermann Bondi, and Fred Hoyle developed the Steady State Theory. Information had come to light that indicated the Universe was expanding. These scientists suggested that at points in space called “irtrons” hydrogen was coming into existence from nothing. As hydrogen atoms arrived, they had to “go” somewhere, and as they did, they displaced matter already in existence, causing the Universe to expand. Dr. Hoyle suggested that the atoms of gaseous hydrogen gradually condensed into clouds of virgin matter, that within these clouds new stars and galaxies formed, etc.

However, the Steady State Theory was doomed to failure, in part, because it violated one of the most fundamental laws of science—the first law of thermodynamics (also referred to as the law of the conservation of matter and/or energy), which states that neither matter nor energy may be created or destroyed in nature. Astronomer Robert Jastrow observed:

But the creation of matter out of nothing would violate a cherished concept in science—the principle of the conservation of matter and energy—which states that matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed. Matter can be converted into energy, and vice versa, but the total amount of all matter and energy in the Universe must remain unchanged forever. It is difficult to accept a theory that violates such a firmly established scientific fact (1977, p. 32).

The Steady State Theory eventually was relegated to the relic heaps of history. Yet problems for those who advocated an eternal Universe continued to multiply because such a concept violated the second law of thermodynamics as well. Simply stated, the second law of thermodynamics dictates that as energy is employed to perform work, it is transformed from a usable to a nonusable form.

And concurrently there was a great deal of discussion about the fact that the second law of thermodynamics, applied to the Cosmos, indicates that the Universe is running down like a clock. If it is running down, there must have been a time when it was fully wound up. Arthur Eddington, the most distinguished astronomer of his day, wrote: “If our views are right, somewhere between the beginning of time and the present day we must place the winding up of the universe.” When that occurred, and Who or what wound up the Universe, were questions that bemused theologians, physicists and astronomers, particularly in the 1920’s and 1930’s

@Budwick The most comfortable position for the person who does not believe in God is the idea that the Universe is eternal...

well when we talk about religion or the big bang by themselves they break that law.
in the big bang something comes from nothing. in religion something comes from nothing but there is intelligent design to its structure. the idea of a universe that is eternal where nothing was ever made or destroyed doesnt really break the second law. how ever entropy ie the spreading out/thinning or energy and matter over time represents the problem of heat death but as stated in the video if the concept of dark matter proves to weaken over time gravity will nullify the problem. the idea is like a circle or death and rebirth not so much a line. the idea of a begging and an end is so in grained in our mind as mortals. i think their other video addresses that problem very well.

YouTube video thumbnail

@TheRedJester well when we talk about religion or the big bang by themselves they break that law. in the big bang something comes...

You wrote - "well when we talk about religion or the big bang by themselves they break that law."

Who is we, themselves, that law?

Your video skips right over starting.

@Budwick You wrote - "well when we talk about religion or the big bang by themselves they break that law." Who is we...

like i said things dont need to start or stop if they always have been.

we=people. the big bang and religion are themselves the idea. the law is the second law of thermodynamics.

i feel the problem with everything having to be made/started is that that is a chain of regress that has to continue to make itself. ie. if the universe was made by god something made god and something made gods creator exctra. the same applies to the big bang if the universe was made then it was made from something which itself was made from something excetra.

if anything the begging or end of something is the same thing change. for instance is the liquid stage the end of the gas stage or the begging of the solid stage in matter. well by all mean that would be impossible to tell for sure. what we do know is change happens and cycles are possible we cant really be sure if something is the begging of something or the end of something or both. this being shown in the uncertainty principal. in other words we can know the state/position something is in or the speed/direction it is at/going but not both with certainty.

@TheRedJester like i said things dont need to start or stop if they always have been. we=people. the big bang and religion are...

(1) If the universe began to exist, then it has a cause
(2) The universe did not begin to exist
(3) Therefore the universe did not have a cause

This commits the fallacy of denying the antecedent. The form of the fallacy is as follows:

(1) If A, then B [If Bono is an American citizen, then he is a human being]
(2) Not A [Bono is not an American citizen]
(3) Therefore not B [Therefore Bono is not a human being]

Applied to the atheists claim that an eternal universe must be an uncaused universe, the fallacy looks like this:

(1) If the universe began to exist, then it has a cause [If A, then B]
(2) The universe did not begin to exist [Not A]
(3) Therefore the universe did not have a cause [Therefore not B]

It could be the case that all things, both eternal and temporal, require either a temporally prior or logically prior cause. One cannot merely assume that an eternal being is an uncaused being. One must provide an argument for this premise.

This will prove difficult because we have a very good reason to think that even an eternal universe must
be caused. The universe is a contingent being (meaning it need not exist in every possible world). It could have been different than it is. For example, it may have operated according to different laws,
been constituted by a different number of quarks, or perhaps even constituted of a completely different
set of particles.

So even if the universe has in fact existed eternally, it did not need to exist, and/or it did not need to exist in the fashion that it does. The defining feature of contingent beings is that they require an external cause for their being. They do not have being in themselves, so they must derive their being from some transcendent source; something else must make contingent beings the way they are.

So even if the universe was eternal, as a contingent being it must derive its being (be caused by) from a transcendent, logically prior cause.

One might grant this, but then ask what caused the logically prior cause of the universe. Perhaps the
logically prior cause of the universe is also a contingent being, and as such it also has a logically
prior cause, but to avoid an infinite regress of logical causation one must eventually terminate the
regress with a necessary being — a being that cannot not exist, whose nature is such that it must exist
and must exist as X rather than –X.

Given the evidence, naturalists need to do one of three things:

(1) Identify the necessary being that caused the universe (or caused the cause of the cause of the
cause of…the universe).

(2) Provide an argument for thinking that the universe is metaphysically necessary rather than
contingent.

(3) Provide an argument for thinking that not all contingent beings require a transcendent cause.

In summary, even if it could be demonstrated scientifically that the universe is eternal (and it can’t), atheists cannot avoid the causal question. The universe cannot cause itself, so the cause must
transcend physical reality. Furthermore, one cannot posit another contingent being as the cause of the
universe because that just pushes the problem of origins back one step and invites an infinite regress.

Eventually one must arrive at a necessary being to explain all contingent beings, including the universe. And if that necessary being is not God, then what is it?

@Budwick (1) If the universe began to exist, then it has a cause (2) The universe did not begin to exist (3) Therefore the...

well for one im a pastafaran so this whole atheism thing doesnt really apply.
secondly it is also widely considered a fallacy that anything that is complex has to have a creator. that being said in my religion god/fsm and the universe have always existed together fsm just shaped how things work... but since he was drunk at the time most systems were infact made by chance.
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@Budwick Yami - There are but three possible answers to this question: (1) the Universe is eternal; it has always existed...

Either one or two IF those are the only scenarios. Neither you nor I were there, so no idea what went down. I'll let the scientists figure it out through evidence or something.

@Yami_no_KoHime Either one or two IF those are the only scenarios. Neither you nor I were there, so no idea what went down. I'll...

The scientific evidence states clearly that the Universe had a beginning; something eternal things do not have. So, number one is out.

On to number two. In the past, it would have been practically impossible to find any reputable scientist who would be willing to advocate a self-created Universe. George Davis, a prominent physicist of the past generation, explained why when he wrote: “No material thing can create itself.” Further, Dr. Davis affirmed that this statement “cannot be logically attacked on the basis of any knowledge available to us”. The Universe is the created, not the creator. There is no evidence that would allow matter or energy simply to “pop into existence” of its own accord. This suggestion is in clear violation of the first law of thermodynamics. Furthermore, to suggest that the Universe created itself is to posit a self-contradictory position.

So, good news, the science is done. The only rational and yes scientific explanation for the existence of the Universe is that a supernatural being - God, created it.

You're welcome.

@Budwick The scientific evidence states clearly that the Universe had a beginning; something eternal things do not have...

I would like to see your evidence of the science being done though. Sources would be nice because as far as I know, they're still actually figuring it out. The beauty of science- it doesn't just seem to stop and changes as we go deeper in.

Of course, I'm not just going to say that a god is the answer because I don't fully understand how everything works yet. I rather they fully figure it out than just partially and say "idk, god must've done it because he's the answer to everything".

Nopeee, evidence or bust.

@Yami_no_KoHime I would like to see your evidence of the science being done though. Sources would be nice because as far as I know...

Yami, I see your point and I admire your curiosity and thirst for knowledge, but evidence isn't needed if you have faith.

@Dami Yami, I see your point and I admire your curiosity and thirst for knowledge, but evidence isn't needed if you have...

I don't want blind faith though, nor do I want any of the 4000+ gods as my own. Evidence or bust.

Christianity was bad enough the first 14 years of my life. I'm not having it for the rest.

@Dami Have you ever considered spiritualism instead?

No. Why would I? I'm a lot happier without any of that and I rather not go back.

@Yami_no_KoHime No. Why would I? I'm a lot happier without any of that and I rather not go back.

Why religion/spiritualism are one of the six components of health. How could one be complete without either?

@Yami_no_KoHime I don't know where you got that. Who told you this exactly?

It's a fact. We even learned it in health class. It's optimal health to have a balance in everything (physical health, mental health, emotional health, spiritual health, social health, and environmental health.)

@Yami_no_KoHime Do you attend a religious school?

that is standard medical training in the usa for nurses. doctors are taught more secular ideas about medicine.

@Yami_no_KoHime Do you attend a religious school?

Nope... I'm surprised you haven't learned this. It's a very common study.

@Dami Nope... I'm surprised you haven't learned this. It's a very common study.

I learnt it in my Religious school. But considering how the US is, I think even public schools might teach that type of stuff.

Don't assume anything about me, and you still need to prove it's a fact.

@Yami_no_KoHime I learnt it in my Religious school. But considering how the US is, I think even public schools might teach that...

There's nothing to prove. Just look it up for yourself. I just remember it from our textbook.

@Dami There's nothing to prove. Just look it up for yourself. I just remember it from our textbook.

If you're not willing to back yourself up, don't expect me to take it as a fact.

@Yami_no_KoHime I would like to see your evidence of the science being done though. Sources would be nice because as far as I know...

Well, we sure wouldn't want you to get off your ass to investigate the most important question you've ever asked. Start here, if you actually read and need more, let me know.

Atheists and agnostics not only acknowledge its existence, but admit that it is a grand effect (e.g., see Astronomer Robert Jastrow , 1977, pp. 19-21). If an entity cannot account for its own being (i.e., it is not sufficient to have caused itself), then it is said to be “contingent” because it is dependent upon something outside of itself to explain its existence. The Universe is a contingent entity, since it is inadequate to cause, or explain, its own existence. Sproul has noted: “Logic requires that if something exists contingently, it must have a cause. That is merely to say, if it is an effect it must have an antecedent cause” (1994, p. 172). Thus, since the Universe is a contingent effect, the obvious question becomes, “What caused the Universe?”

A cause, by definition, must have an effect, or it is not a cause. An effect, by definition, must have a cause, or it is not an effect (1994, pp. 172,171 emp. in orig.).

@Budwick Well, we sure wouldn't want you to get off your ass to investigate the most important question you've ever asked...

'Well, we sure wouldn't want you to get off your ass to investigate the most important question you've ever asked. Start here, if you actually read and need more, let me know.'

The heck is your problem? You wanna convince me of anything (waste of time either way because I hate Christianity and how it made me suffer), then you're going about it the wrong way. I don't like talking to jerks.

@Dami How did Christianity "make you suffer"?

Oh, that wasn't directed to you. Sorry if you thought it was. That was to someone else.

@Dami Maybe it wasn't but I'm curious to know.

Restricted me from things and got me in trouble many times and other stuff. Kinda personal, so I won't be divulging much.

@Yami_no_KoHime Restricted me from things and got me in trouble many times and other stuff. Kinda personal, so I won't be divulging...

I understand. Religion is a template. You don't have to stop being yourself...There are some things you will find absolutely ridiculous about it..or even disagree with. But, it's not meant to confine you..It's meant to shape you, and help you become closer to faith.

@Yami_no_KoHime 'Well, we sure wouldn't want you to get off your ass to investigate the most important question you've ever asked...

Convince you of anything - "waste of time either way because I hate Christianity"

Your attitude came through loud and clear before giving you a starting point. .... But I am the jerk.

OK, maybe we're both jerks. Still no reason for you to simply dismiss answers to your questions.

@Budwick Convince you of anything - "waste of time either way because I hate Christianity" Your attitude came through loud...

"So, good news, the science is done. The only rational and yes scientific explanation for the existence of the Universe is that a supernatural being - God, created it."

Wrong. Many scientists could, and have stated (like how you totally ignored that bit), that the Big Bang, and thus our universe, started with p-branes colliding. Its all physics jargon. But nothing supernatural like a god.

Sure, you could argue that the the p-brane had to have come from- a creator. But then I could ask the same thing about your creator; where did he come from?

And if you say he was always there, or on a never ending loop, then I can say the same about the p-branes.

So no, your "logic" no way concludes that there definitely must be a creator.

Glad I could clear that up for you :)

Now, you could still have a god and the big bang. BUT, the big bang in theory is enough without a creator. Like I just explained.

I still can't believe that you just stated the scientific community has agreed that there is a god. They haven't enough found definitive evidence for either side, and they never will. Oh my god this is priceless!

Are you now going to tell me your textbooks state that scientists have proven a way for someone like Jesus to turn water into wine so quickly? Why have science when we can have magic. #redneckeducation

@Loops "So, good news, the science is done. The only rational and yes scientific explanation for the existence of the...

And where did the pea-brains come from? What started them moving to collide? Did they suddenly appear out of nothing? Did they start to move in reaction to nothing? Seems you would have to violate some basic laws of physics to accomplish that.

@Budwick And where did the pea-brains come from? What started them moving to collide? Did they suddenly appear out of...

Actually you wouldn't at all; if you knew anything about theoretical physics, you would know that the standard, everyday, laws don't apply to that situation.

You must know, since you talk of physics so confidently lmfao.

@Loops Actually you wouldn't at all; if you knew anything about theoretical physics, you would know that the standard...

I know that theoretical physics is, ... well theoretical.

Are you suggesting that the laws of physics apply only when it's convenient?

No input on the pea-brains, eh? No theory on what caused them to collide? Come on, this is your chance to shine with all that Fizziks you know and understand so much better than anyone else!

@Budwick I know that theoretical physics is, ... well theoretical. Are you suggesting that the laws of physics apply only...

They collided by chance.
Sure you could argue that is weak, but so is the idea of an all knowing entity.

And I love how you're changing the subject.

But first..

Nope, let me give you some insight in physics. The laws of Newtonian classical mechanics that you know. And probably only know, do not apply to everything my dear

For example, do you know why they created quantum mechanics? Because while classical physics is rock solid in our everyday world, when it comes to subatomic particles, they fail. So quantum mechanics does that job.
I bet you didn't even know that, whereas any educated person in physics has that ingrained into their brain.

Do not EVEN try to talk physics with me when it' clear you know so little of it, you backwoods hillbilly dimwit.

What I should point out that started this whole thing was your SILLY statement that the scientific community has agreed that there is a god.

I'm going to be a bigger person and state that despite my atheism, I can say that scientists have not come to a consesus on whether there is, or isn't a god (although, how can you disprove the non existence of something)
So no, scientists have not said anything about God. Some believe in his existence, other don't.

Don't talk to me about not having input when you try to change the subject on your original, sad claim.

@Loops They collided by chance. Sure you could argue that is weak, but so is the idea of an all knowing entity. And I...

No wait a second. Those things that collided by chance - what started them in motion? Even in the sub-atomic world, particles don't just start moving for no reason!

@Budwick No wait a second. Those things that collided by chance - what started them in motion? Even in the sub-atomic...

Actually they do.

And again, you're basing logic off of Newtonian physics whereas is has no application in the subatomic world....

I am laughing so hard right now, please continue.

@MTechie When conservatives try to science. comedygold

You remind me of some real comedy gold
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douchbag

@Budwick You remind me of some real comedy gold douchbag

I love Conservatives. Their "freedom" is outlawing anything outside their religion

comedygold

@Budwick Huh?

You forgot to love your comment where you act like you don't know what was said about Conservative stupidity, but we all know you do :)

@Loops Actually they do. And again, you're basing logic off of Newtonian physics whereas is has no application in the...

Wow! I've been very impressed with your conviction regarding quantum Physics. One might say you have developed a strong faith in the theory.

But then, to which theory do you subscribe? Cuz, I'm sure you know, in as much that you have dedicated such a big part of your life to the topic - there are several competing theories out there; you got your Niels Bohr's theory, explaining that particles exist in all states at once, then there's Everett's Many-Worlds interpretation. (I'll be honest, that one boggles the mind!)

And of course they are all just theory at this point. It's not like any one actually observed, measured, collected data, etc. Given our limitations technologically and the behavior of sub-atomic particles, observation is simply not possible! So, one must have faith in the ever changing understanding of quantum physics.

Of course, I haven't spent all those years studying Quantum Physics like you, but still, even for a backwoods hillbilly dimwit- it's fascinating.

I found a couple things in the introductory paragraphs I read last night that you might find interesting.

For example, in the same way you explained that classic Newtonian Physics doesn't apply at the Quantum Level - Quantum Physics doesn't apply at the macro Newtonian level! Good thing too, eh? It would so annoying to suddenly change from particles to waves and reappear somewhere else - amirite?

It's almost like an intelligence greater than our own put this all together - wouldn't you agree?

Oh, and remember when you postulated that pea-brains collided to initiate the Big Bang, and that they could do that without cause because of the nature of Quantum Physics? Remember that? Well, as it turns out, at the Quantum level, the concept of 'force' really has no meaning, forces don't have a meaning, because nothing touches directly anything else. (Is that bizarre, or what?) So, certainly, there was no pea-brain collision.

And you know what Professor? I believe you must have known that - what with all your fancy learning and all. It got me wondering, what could possibly be the motivation of a Quantum Physics scholar to not share the whole truth. Unless, it simply wouldn't have supported his atheistic feelings on the topic at hand. (Speaking like the SNL Church Lady) "Do you think it was Satan?"

Your sure enough have given this backwoods hillbilly dimwit some things to ponder.

@Budwick Wow! I've been very impressed with your conviction regarding quantum Physics. One might say you have developed a...

Loool

Nice job copy and pasting. Did you really think my simple explanation in layman terms covers everything?

Especially when the point of all this was to show:THERE ARE MULTIPLE THOERIES. SO NO, SCIENTISTS HAVENT AGREEDON JUST ONE.

Thank you so much for proving my point: there is no consensus.

And thank you, for proving time and time again, that you have not being able to support your original claim. And instead you go off on a tangent about particle physics. :)

@Loops Loool Nice job copy and pasting. Did you really think my simple explanation in layman terms covers...

So, your multiple, unproven theories that your own group can not agree on is your 'proof' against my logical proof that the universe could not exist without cause?

And I am the backwoods hillbilly dimwit!

@Budwick So, your multiple, unproven theories that your own group can not agree on is your 'proof' against my logical proof...

You must be

Here, let me simplify what we have right now:
You stated that, in theory( cause, how could we ever test out god, the big bang etc), that he MUST exist. Citing stuff such as "well were did p branes come from" etc etc.

And I smashed that theory into bits when I stated, that no one really knows, or can prove. Cause while God can explain our origins, so can colliding P branes.

Oh and you asked which theory I believed in? I believed p branes had always existed. Its no different than thinking an all knowing being always existed.

Sure there are a multitude of theories from different scientists; and that's the point I was trying to make. No one really knows the truth to our mysterious origins and we sure as heck don't have scientists agreeing on anything :)

@Budwick What was it that caused those eternal p branes to collide again?

Random movement.

I'd like you to try and recreate the big bang and try to disprove that.

Once you realize how you can't, you'lll see how it's likely scientists will never know for sure how we came to b.
:)
Unless of course God magically appeared to the world. Then I'd be a sudden believer.

But I degress

@Budwick Wow! I've been very impressed with your conviction regarding quantum Physics. One might say you have developed a...

And, how dumb can you be? I NEVER said the p branes follow quantum mechanics. I gave that part of physics as an example because, from your lack of education in this, you actually thought there was only one side of physics.

You do know that the p brands existed BEFORE the big bang.. right? So their collision doesn't even follow quantum mechanics. YOU assumed they did since you have no idea what we'really talking about.
There are other postulations so for that.
A fine example of how scientists have NOT agreed on origins

I'm going to give this backwoods hillbilly dimwitted some time to misread my words again, then copy and paste other random stuff
.
seriously, I love looking at how conservative brains work. It's like neanderthals

But you know what? Show me proof of your claim, that scientists have agreed, for the most part, that god exists.

And I'll talk physics with you and respond to you your points that you made. :)

@Loops And, how dumb can you be? I NEVER said the p branes follow quantum mechanics. I gave that part of physics as an...

Trust me, he won't bring up evidence for that.

Instead he'lll ask to talk more about physics to change the subject, bet my money on that.

@Budwick How much you gonna bet?

Not much; you still haven't brought up any evidence of this consensus, but you did stop trying to change the subject. So, I don't think s/he'd want to lose money.

@Budwick Again Loops - I was not talking to you. Not that you are stalking- oh no!

LOL. Stalking? His response and your response are right below mine.

It is not that hard to see it and spend 2 seconds posting.

Are your panties still in a knot.
? :)

@Loops And, how dumb can you be? I NEVER said the p branes follow quantum mechanics. I gave that part of physics as an...

I've learned that it annoys you when I cut and paste, so I'll just refer to an article I found - written by a physicist I might add, that you might find interesting. I know I did.

WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE THE BIG BANG?
The theoretical physicist PAUL DAVIES is this year's winner of the Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion. In a new essay, he tackles one of the trickiest questions of existence.
http://www.independent.co.uk/li...g-1584819.html

@Budwick I've learned that it annoys you when I cut and paste, so I'll just refer to an article I found - written by a...

Is it an article that definitely shuns out any chance of forever existing phone brands?
Or does it just bring up his own, valid belief?

Sorry hun, a well rounded, assuming it is, theory of our origins doesn't eliminate others.

It's still up for debate and guess what? Still don't see this universal consensus by scientists you claimed of :)

But please, keep trying :)

@Budwick Convince you of anything - "waste of time either way because I hate Christianity" Your attitude came through loud...

You copied and pasted something, but I didn't need you to go to that much trouble. I just wanted links.

And yeah, it did. Mainly because I have seen you arguing with a lot of people and I was not ready for you to go full shitstorm with me if our conversation went the direction theirs did.

That's the reason most of my replies were not over a page long. I've edited and edited and shortened them and made them all worthy of ending a conversation.

'I don't want blind faith though, nor do I want any of the 4000+ gods as my own. Evidence or bust.

Christianity was bad enough the first 14 years of my life. I'm not having it for the rest.'

That was initially pretty rude and about 3 full paragraphs so I made it nice and short and a lot more polite.

Well first of all I refuse to worship a male entity. I have decided in my life that I cannot allow men to hold power over me except in lawful and employment situations.

But most of all, The only "evidence" for god is found in a single publication written thousands of years ago. One that pretty much claims its true because it says so.

I don't actually trust people from back then, back in a time where women were property and children were slaughtered by conquerors. In a time when Crucifixion was considered a good form of punishment for political disagreement and people drank dirty wine from dirty cups and probably experimented with sage or herbs that altered states of beings quite often. Without the proper context, those states could be interpreted as a religious experience. I don't know what happened back then but It seems pretty messed up to me, and a little bit terrifying. People picturing things like hands floating writing signs of death during dinner parties, or lions with thousands of eyes What the hell!!? It seems like a salvia induced bad trip. like the kind of things you think of in a state of half wakefulness that spook you for unknown reasons. It seems these ideas came from someone who wasn't really all there.

That puts Judaism and Christianity out of my picture. I don't know enough about Buddhism or Shintoism, Islamic religion is not for girls who want to have a life, So I choose to pick a few ideas from the pagan line of thinking. A Goddess to worship, who is not simplistic but is nature herself. A different form of consciousness, not a life like an animal or a person but a living idea that in my mind manifests as a beautiful woman named Stellora just so I can relate to it. Can be said to be both Lilith and Artemis.

The universe exists and, it is real. The presence of God is seen everywhere - all over Creation. It didn't happen all on it's own.

From 1st Romans:
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

@Budwick The universe exists and, it is real. The presence of God is seen everywhere - all over Creation. It didn't happen...

i think there is a problem with that.
if one could see inherently that this was the work of god and even more specifically the christian god then no doubt their wouldnt even be an argument. you could cite numbers statistics and facts to support intelligent design but even that doesnt prove what god or gods are responsible. really when it comes down to it this is an unfair question for him to ask considering the definition of faith is to take something without absolute evidence of the concept. so by the very nature of concept he/she is asking you to prove a concept that disappears when proven. to know and to believe are two concepts that can not be united. when you know something you no longer need to believe with out being sure and when you believe you are not certain.

@TheRedJester naw im pastafarian.

Pastafarian.
Image in content
And you would like me to take your criticism of Christianity seriously?

@Budwick Pastafarian. And you would like me to take your criticism of...

well why not i take Christians criticism of my religion seriously. though im not criticizing your entire system of religious beliefs just one passage that i dont think makes sense out of context. in the context of which that quote was written the people their had been given undeniable proof of his existence. that context is important yet unmentioned. that would be like me citing letters to olive garden about how he is very upset with them for not using salt in their water when boiling pasta. but not mentioning the salt part that would imply he hates olive garden but he doesnt he just wants them to put salt into their boiling water. without context someone could make any god look like an unreasonable jerk.

@TheRedJester well why not i take Christians criticism of my religion seriously. though im not criticizing your entire system of...

In all of Christianity, your issue is with one passage - found in the Bible? Please share which passage has you puzzled.

@Budwick In all of Christianity, your issue is with one passage - found in the Bible? Please share which passage has you...

i think you miss read what i said or i didnt write my message clearly. in your book the quote you are using was being used out of context.

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

at the time the people of that era had clear and absolute evidence of god according to the book. i think that should be taken into consideration. if you look at the very next line after it in that version of the bible it talks about people who didnt respect god despite knowing him and his existence. if you think about that it implies their are 2 kinds of people then people who know of god and people who dont otherwise talking about people who know him but dont respect him would be a redundant statement. the other thing this implies is that this wasnt so much a statement of fact but of disbelief that people could be so blind to the truth. kind of like how when you try to explains something to someone and your just so frustrated because they just cant understand the obvious truth of the situation. its like the iconic statement "come on man its right there just pick it up oh god your thick"

@TheRedJester i think you miss read what i said or i didnt write my message clearly. in your book the quote you are using was...

There were disciples following Jesus that occasionally had their doubts (about Him being the Son of God) - and they witnessed all kinds of miracles.

So, we agree that even with clear evidence that there will people that won't buy it. You may be one of them. Not that I think you care - but I'm OK with that. You can believe what you want. If you ever would like to know more out of serious interest, I'll be happy to help.

Now, I would thank you to do the same for me and my Christian friends. Your mockery of Christianity is totally uncalled for. Just leave it alone.

Thank you.

@Budwick There were disciples following Jesus that occasionally had their doubts (about Him being the Son of God) - and they...

what part of what i said was mocking you or your religion in that statement? it was just a simple interpretation of the bible. im just saying that the way you were using that quote in particular didnt make sense to me given the context.

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