+6

Judges 19 is not only the worst bible verse ever written, it is literally the most disturbing thing I've ever read period. In my life.

I man throws his sex slave to a roving gang of rapists they rape her all night, he finds her lying on the ground takes her home and slices her up for no reason whatsoever. This woman had a family who loved her by the way.

Image for post Judges 19 is not only the worst bible verse ever written, it is literally the most disturbing thing I've ever read period. In my life.
75%Agree25%Disagree
TomboyJanets avatar Religion
Share
3 39

It was a big event in it's time, outrage over it led to the annihilation of an entire tribe, some 40,000 people. So, yeah, you're not the only one who found it disturbing.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/...judges-20.html

@Maze It was a big event in it's time, outrage over it led to the annihilation of an entire tribe, some 40,000 people...

True. But why did that man throw the concubine to the rape gang and shut the door on them just to prevent rape of himself? That is a cruel selfish act. Then he sent the cut up body parts to the other tribes implying that the enemy has done that (looking at say a leg wont indicate someone was raped, I'm pretty sure he amped up dramatic effect to get revenge on them wanting to rape him) Then after all that was over they enslaved the women of another tribe and sent them to be wives to the survivors of the massacre.....huh????!!! (not by choice they were placed in a field I believe and the men were allowed to pick a bride and carry her off)

@TomboyJanet True. But why did that man throw the concubine to the rape gang and shut the door on them just to prevent rape of...

It's a record of a significant event in Jewish history, nothing more, nothing less.

Bad behavior isn't new, it's been around forever.

@Maze It's a record of a significant event in Jewish history, nothing more, nothing less. Bad behavior isn't new, it's...

But why didn't God strike him down? I'm pretty sure I've seen other instances where people were killed for refusing circumcision, a man was found working on the sabbeth and brutally murdered, daughters were put to death because their father's screwed up, commanding people be slain for disobeying parents. Many things that were smaller offenses than this. I mean half the people today would be dead if we followed the Bible's rules to the letter.

On a side note:
Could you imagine a roving group of devouts marching around destroying people for worshipping a different god today? like if Fred Phelps had instead of just being a major asshole, formed an army and marched on Austin annihilated everyone, marched on Salem, Annihilated everyone, marched on Washingtond Dc, Annihilated everyone etc. It would be chaos!

@TomboyJanet But why didn't God strike him down? I'm pretty sure I've seen other instances where people were killed for refusing...

God doesn't generally punish people until after they've done something wrong. The situation didn't end with the crime, that was just the beginning, check it out:

The leaders of all the people of the tribes of Israel took their places in the assembly of God’s people, four hundred thousand men armed with swords.

Then the Israelites said, “Tell us how this awful thing happened.”

So the Levite, the husband of the murdered woman, said, “I and my concubine came to Gibeah in Benjamin to spend the night. During the night the men of Gibeah came after me and surrounded the house, intending to kill me. They raped my concubine, and she died. I took my concubine, cut her into pieces and sent one piece to each region of Israel’s inheritance, because they committed this lewd and outrageous act in Israel. Now, all you Israelites, speak up and tell me what you have decided to do.”

All the men rose up together as one, saying, “None of us will go home. No, not one of us will return to his house..." Judges 20:2-8

@Maze God doesn't generally punish people until after they've done something wrong. The situation didn't end with the...

It's interesting how he leaves out the part where he OFFERED her to them (along with a virgin daughter of the house owner) very crafty retelling I believe.

And that still doesn't explain why allowing the people of this horrible tribe (if I'm not mistaken I BELIEVE it was the Benjamites?) to grab conquered women from another tribe of their choosing, is a happy ending to this tale.

There are many times earlier where I was actually rooting for the armies facing the Israelites who's only crimes were worshipping the wrong gods.

@TomboyJanet It's interesting how he leaves out the part where he OFFERED her to them (along with a virgin daughter of the house...

Yeah well, if he was intimidated into handing over his concubine by a few rapists, 400,000 angry guys with swords would definitely be enough to cause him to omit a detail or two to save himself.

A lot of crazy shit that happened back then, it was a different world. Bear in mind, it was three or four thousand years ago. But worse things happened in the last century, WW2 was super ugly and disturbing in places, stuff that makes that story seem mild by comparison.

@Maze Yeah well, if he was intimidated into handing over his concubine by a few rapists, 400,000 angry guys with swords...

If it was written that this man was a vile person or a damned coward it would be one thing, but to make him out as a hero...that kinda bugs me. At least give this poor girl whom you have betrayed a proper burial.

I also feel like lesser things were done to other men by different figures, and the perpetrators of those actions were put to death by God (or someone who he commanded to kill him) earlier on in the books of Genesis, Exodous and a few others

@TomboyJanet If it was written that this man was a vile person or a damned coward it would be one thing, but to make him out as...

The event was recorded as it happened, the judgement is in the details, not some pronouncement by the author.

@Maze The event was recorded as it happened, the judgement is in the details, not some pronouncement by the author.

And I'm being the judge. So what's the issue? All I'm saying is it was a disgusting act and he should have sacrificed him self to save others if he wasn't such a coward.

Hollywood has written worse.

@Cezar Hollywood has written worse.

I usually avoid movies with rape scenes or slicing women up. I just can't stomach it after what I've seen.

I never even knew this was in there until I actually looked into this thing. I did have a few moments questioning oh maybe it's real because so many people follow it a god would favor that happening in the universe UNTIL I read the Bible. Once I read it and I watched some analysis videos (and some parodies too I'm not gonna lie), and It became clear that the bible is a collection of different stories woven together from different mythos, which explains any contradictions, double statements, people knowing things, then unknowing them and learning them for the first time again, The fact that God said something to the tune of "and man became like US" implying multiple Gods, Elohim being a plural word of Eloah. Destruction of major powers that no other culture has a record of, destruction of Egypt's greatest armies and leader that no one else seemed to acknowledge in written records (a major trading hub around the fertile desert river, that would be big news) It just completely obliterated any shred of hope anyone has had for me believing it's an infallible history record

This user has deactivated their account.
@2510797

the point was that WHO WOULD WRITE THAT?? Even George RR Martin would be like chill out

This user has deactivated their account.
@2510834

Well you know If I'm gonna argue against something, I'm gonna be sure I know my shit. The question I have for a lot of Christians is have THEY read it? Like could one tell me who Paltith was without looking it up on google? Could they tell me which cities supposedly fell to the Israelite armies AFTER they fled Egypt? (other than the obvious Jericho) or even just two? Could they even name more than 3 of Jacob's sons? And could they explain why the Bible lists two conflicting Genealogy threads for the first people of Earth (that one I can't figure out, or seem to get a straight answer for). Or tell me how many times heroic characters massacred every living sole in a city for worshiping idols or one person sleeping with the wrong woman?

You should ALWAYS take time to study deeply the other side of the debate before you begin on major subjects like this. I know it's hard to get through the bible because there are pages upon pages of just archaic regulations about how to trade goats and not cook goats in their own mother's milk (ew), but I would expect anyone participating an any form of biblical debate or disagreement to have at least read most of it or a good chunk of it.

This user has deactivated their account.
@2510864

I made an opinion on a story I read. If I said the same about Twilight and "Twi-hards" complained no one would say I'm hating on them directly, just the work of literature (and possibly just the way it's written). I've come to the theory that the Bible is a collective of works of mythos from a long period of time gathered by nomadic peoples. There are parts like this I find distasteful and nasty (especially for calling a man who throws a woman to a rape gang a hero or godly in any way and this happens more than once, remember Lot?) There are other parts I find fascinating, not the way a Christian would though, I find it an interesting look at a culture and how it's people viewed themselves as conquering heroes. the grand trek of the Israelites through the area around Israel pretty much DEMOLISHING what amounts to city states over night, is a very interesting claim. There is a string of chapters just about how they knock over a kingdom, kill EVERYONE in it, and take women slaves and move on to the next. The writers also don't hesitate to mention how powerful they were in doing so either. The only people they had trouble fighting? other Tribes of Israel.

I'm also curious about God's depiction as a corporeal being in the early parts of Genesis. Taking strolls in the garden, looking for people as if he didn't already know where they were hiding, changing his mind on things. Very human characteristics. Then he evolves over time but still has certain limits (and a fixation on extreme punishments for misdemeanors and punishing daughters for things their fathers do, by making the father burn them to death) I'm just bewildered at times and frightened at others. It really must have been a terrible world back then especially for women.

This user has deactivated their account.
@2510883

I think it's pretty ignorant to think that women weren't mistreated in ancient times. It's a pretty niave thought that a woman back then had really any opportunities. they were the birthers, and concubines of men. Men married women they didn't love so they married again and treated their new wife better while not divorcing the old essentially locking her into a loveless world 24-7. I'm studying this book as a cultural artifact. It is a window into that time period, a culture that is obviously long dead. (unless you still kill a bird and bath another in its blood as a healing ritual in which case yes I'd see demons there big time)

Let me just ask you a question. Is it not sexist to take a wife by conquering her people and grabbing her off the street regardless of her wants?

This user has deactivated their account.
@2510896

Our study of history is how we decide how to move forward. If we look at actions like this and say they are just, what hope do we have of not repeating that climate one day? Someone could decide to LITERALLY follow every law God supposedly laid down in the bible, and if people did that, they would probably go to jail before the end of the weak. Or the first day if it was on the Sabbeth.

The Bible cannot be exempt from literary criticism just because some people believe it's true. It's an opinion that it's true as much as it's an opinion that it is untrue because none of us where there and we cannot have first person primary or even secondary sources to tell us what did or did not happen in a supposed time frame. Even if it did happen (and i find it unlikely that it word for word happened if at all) I could still criticize the way it was written and the characters/figures they chose to promote.

This user has deactivated their account.
@2510916

If i was professing pure hatred If I was I'd be mentioning Christian people. I'm only mentioning the writers of the bible, who I can only assume are nomadic ancient folk. I'm not actually clear on what you are accusing me of doing since I do not harbor ideas of genocide or attacking Christian people, or even banning their culture in any way. I just posted a commentary on a story I read, just an opinion piece on a part of a book. I'm not sure how that justifies your accusation in any way shape or form, and why you think I hate all Christians when I'm sleeping with one nightly, but call a spade a spade, don't call a club a spade. If you could explain to me why you took such offense at an opinion piece of a work of literature it would be helpful.

IF I said the same about Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows it wouldn't even be an issue. Because you would realize I am not saying "if you like Harry Potter you are an evil piece of shit" I'm just saying "I think this part of the book is rude, violent, and unnecessary, and poorly written at that."

@TomboyJanet I made an opinion on a story I read. If I said the same about Twilight and "Twi-hards" complained no one would say...

Still is a horrible life for women in the isis areas of the world. Only a bit better in european and americas. All the muslims coming into our country and others are bringing those things with them, soon enough usa will be protecting men from punishment because it was their religion. A good reason religion should be kept in private not public lives.

@2510834

"Why would you bother reading something you obviously disbelieve?"...really?

Carmos avatar Carmo Agree +1Reply

The people who live in that area still behave the same way to this day. In the Christian religion, the Old Testament is brutal. Jesus changes all of that with a message of peace and love.

@JerryHendrickson The people who live in that area still behave the same way to this day. In the Christian religion, the Old...

Does that mean we don't have to follow the ten commandments anymore? Or well you guys, not me. I'm exempt from Christian law because I'm non-Christian

@TomboyJanet Does that mean we don't have to follow the ten commandments anymore? Or well you guys, not me. I'm exempt from...

I don't want to argue this shit. It's the biggest bullshit argument ever. The Old Testament contradicts itself. I don't care what anyone else does, Christian or not. You decide if the Ten Commandment is something you want to follow yourself.

@JerryHendrickson I don't want to argue this shit. It's the biggest bullshit argument ever. The Old Testament contradicts itself...

I'm just saying, you can't think god wrote it and then think you don't have to obey his rules. Unless you are in the camp that the bible got distorted over time in which I agree

@TomboyJanet I'm just saying, you can't think god wrote it and then think you don't have to obey his rules. Unless you are in...

The Old Testament is impossible to obey. Part of it tells you to kill people and then you read "Thou Shalt not Kill." Something is wrong there. If somebody steals, chop off their hand? Stuff like that? Jesus doesn't dig that. He just says quit judging others and look into the mirror: judge that.

Well remember where the bible comes from. In that area of the world women are still less than animals according to their male dominated laws. A woman who has been raped is a disgrace to the family. Probably was her own brother or father who cut her up. Men are so very screwed up.

wah i don;t understand the bible so i will call it terrible wa wa wa, lol \

I'm surprised those Benjamites didn't remember what happened to Sodom.

https://www.biblegateway.com/pa...rch=Genesis+19

Anonymous