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Are we growing adult children? What I am talking about in here (which is my first very post on this website btw), is about the modern world and how I, a young, confused woman, does not understand where all the concepts of responsibility and independence have disappeared.

I'll start this post by saying that I don't identify myself as a feminist. I believe the definition has lost its power when the extremists started to grow as a number and became completely lunatic.
The today's topic? Adults that are in reality children.
Ok, before I dive in this topic, let’s take a step back, take a walk down on memory lane and remember how the world spanned before women wanted men's heads on spikes.

The problem was here for a long time and, of course, it all starts from women nevertheless. For centuries and centuries women were objectified, sexualized, disrespected, used as a mean to get assets and goods through marriage, physically and mentally abused, insulted, called the most cruel names and constantly been told to shut it, as their opinion was not even remotely evaluated or even listened to for that matter.
The confidence of women all over the world has been torn apart little by little every single day for centuries and all that went by with them not being able to express themselves in any sort of way or at least try to defend themselves. They were denied any kind of education (aside of the “cooking, cleaning and having children” routine) and kept under the power of the church, the patriarchy, which repeatedly taught the population that they are inferior, that they should listen to their husbands/fathers/brothers, respect them and, above all, to be obedient.
Furthermore, any free thinking or rebellious woman was considered a witch and burned in front of everyone to grow even more the fear imprisoning women.
Of course, as the future followed its course, we no longer have these issues, or better said, we do not have these issues on “paper”.
I am saying this because, yes, while it’s true that women can go to college now, can vote and express their opinion, can get a job and be financially independent, we still have many issues with men who refuse change (and women nonetheless). One of them being the salary difference between genders, which I find completely barbaric and quite unforgivable.

And we have men who are still clinging to the idea that, while women should do all these things, be independent, be smart, be brave etc., they should as well take care of the house, be the cook and the maid of the family and this kind of unrealistic ideas come from our childhood.

I mean think about it, as a kid, when you had any sort of problem or question, when you wanted to know where certain objects were in the house, when you needed any kind of help, generally, you turned to your mothers.
We saw our mothers do everything in the house, we saw them clean it, we saw them taking care of us and our fathers and siblings, we saw them cook, and always be reliable and responsible, so it's only natural that this image just stays blocked in our head. If you are a man, your brain associates these kind of activities as "womanly", because they've always seen their mothers do it, and very similarly, even women growing up, form this association in their brains, just because we always saw our mothers as the ones who held the shit together.
But... what about the fathers?
What do they do to help their wives?
What kind of example are they setting for their children?
And what kind of expectations are they putting on the women around them?

I mean, if you want to be a housewife, by all means, the choice is yours and I'm not even judging if that makes you happy!
But in this post I am talking for the rest of us ladies who are kind of sick and tired to repeat this concept over and over again when in a relationship (and not only).
And don’t get me wrong, many men are not even aware about the fact that they are sexist (as many women are sexist without realizing), it’s just that this idea, this connection is so deeply shoved into their minds that it became a natural mental process.
It’s normal for a woman to cook, clean, take care of children, iron etc., and it’s normal for men to not think about these things, as they've been already took care of.

And this is where I genuinely kind of get lost as a woman: why are men still being raised with this mentality by their mothers?

Why mothers can’t teach them to cook and clean, like they did with the rest of us girls from a very young age? This is as useful for women as it is for men, I mean don’t they need to eat? Nutrition it’s vital for both genders in case that wasn't clear enough! Since we are human beings, our bodies kind of need “fuel” throughout the day.

Why mothers can’t teach them how to clean?
When you go to college (which is the period when you get your first taste of “being on your own”), it’s very common to switch cities, so when you will live alone, you will kind of need to know how to vacuum, to wash dishes, windows, floors etc. for yourself (but if you want your place covered in filth, that’s fine too I guess...).
Why mothers won’t teach them how to iron their clothes? Since they will certainly need them to get out of the house, I don’t see any reason why not to educate them on how to be presentable on their own.

At the end of the day, these are not things that only women do anymore, these are basic rules on “how to live on your own” that every individual, regardless of their genders, needs in the modern society. Is as if you are a grown ass man, but if you’d be alone you wouldn’t even know how to prepare a proper dish to feed yourself!! So, my real question here, is for all the mothers that educate boys like this.

Why, oh why are you doing this to the world?
I mean, as a parent you should teach them how to do fine on their own, to be responsible, to try and be prepared to face the hard moments in life.

I am not saying to let them do everything by themselves in an early age, but for the love of what is good on this earth, try to raise them to be more responsible for their shit! Because, as it’s happening more and more often, we, ladies, have real trouble to understand your sons when in a relationship! The truth is that women are not and will never be as they used to, not all of them for that matter. Right now, after a long day of work and stress, a complete “9 to 5” where I worked my ass of, I don’t have ANY desire to come home and teach him how to do basic stuff (and even if I explain it to him, he will stubbornly oppose to accept that these are also his duties!!!).

I don’t live to cook for him, I hardly do it for myself, I don’t live to clean for him and I absolutely don’t want to hear him complain about how he doesn’t enjoy doing these chores, because guess what? I don't like it either but I don't complain like a little bitch.
The problem is, that men raised like this grew up to be “adult children”, those people who can’t survive on their own, who have the constant need to have a “mother” by their side, who are not able to face tough times and fall in depression immediately.

I don't know about you, but my mother told me to be strong since I was 6 years old!! To be observant and careful, to not take anything for granted and to work for everything that I want. Why nobody tells them??

Think about it, this is what happened for so long: when men got married, they basically received a second mom. A mother 2.0, if you will: a woman who basically cares for them as their mothers did, and guess what? They even get a bonus! He can now have sex with mom 2.0, so yey for him, right?
I know, kind of gross to state it like that, but don’t get distracted, this is the truth. I bet you know at least one couple like the one prior described.
And the worst part of all? Nowadays, because they lack the sense of responsibility so much, they don’t even get married anymore but expect their girlfriends to treat them like mothers nevertheless. It’s like, for them, the world is just a big shiny ball of wonderful and when they are told to “man-up”, they even have the nerve to get offended.

Guys, a piece of advice from all the women who don’t want to be your freaking mothers: I don’t have time for your childish drama on how you are tired. I am tired too.
I don’t have the energy to argue with you if something needs to be done around the house. For God's sake, if we live in the same house, stop sobbing and get your ass movin’ boy!
If I am in a relationship with you is because I want to be your partner, to share bills, to share house chores, emotions and goals, to share everything, to share life. I can not do all by myself, because, guess what, WHY WOULD I NEED YOU ANYMORE?
What would be your contribution?
Because breathing is just not enough.

The sad reality is that this could’ve been prevented, by their mothers. Yes, you guessed it. You, as a mother, are the most important female role in his life and you can really make a difference, but you don’t for some kind of reason, yet unknown to me.
The message here? Just one, and it’s not even for men, it’s for their mothers: raise your children to be ADULTS, responsible adults that can handle their shit and their responsibilities together, who are STRONGLY independent, who don’t need their mothers to get shit done, who are active instead of passive, who conquer their own lives.

Because what we are getting nowadays, are just lazy, weak, whining men that through their behaviors, are encouraging us to become lesbians and save us the trouble of being with them! (JK, but seriously).
Call me crazy, but in my point of view, these are the species that will eventually “die”, because as Darwin teaches us: it’s not the strongest species that survives, but the most adaptable, and they suck at adapting themselves to this new world.

Image for post Are we growing adult children? What I am talking about in here (which is my first very post on this website btw), is about the modern world and how I, a young, confused woman, does not understand where all the concepts of responsibility and independence have disappeared.
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SilviaPohribs avatar Relationships
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Can only speak for myself, but I'm raising a capable man. At 10 he's already capable of preparing his own food, cleaning up, being responsible for the upkeep of his immediate needs and his dog's, school-work etc. and in addition to his extracurriculars. Hell, he even mows the lawn.

He's more than independent, he's competent and I have enormous respect for that. He exercises the caution of an adult when necessary, that amazes me.

I've always treated him as a capable equal because he is. Granted I'm not his buddy, the proper roles of authority are well-established, but he stopped requiring my direct supervision years ago. I could comfortably leave him at home alone if needed to, but I don't. Not yet anyway.

I was that way as a kid, so were my siblings. We were latchkey kids.

I can't relate to what you are saying, I raised good strong boys, who don't whine, help others whenever they can and take responsibility for their actions. And all the men in our family are good decent, and intelligent men who are loved by all of their mates.

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@2533864

Weel, it was intended as a joke actually :)

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@2534780

I'm sorry, I thought here everyone could express themselves. I didn't wrote a book, it's hardly the length of an article for God's sakes.

I know of the type of men you're speaking. My sister used to date one guy like that. And I have a man like that in my family. He can't even pick his damn plate from the table and that pisses me off to no end.
It's as you said: it's how it's taught at home. In the 30 and 50's things were very different. Luckily, things are changing.

I know that if I have ever a son, I have no intention in keeping the "tradition" that I see in many families.

Sofias avatar Sofia Agree +1Reply
@Sofia I know of the type of men you're speaking. My sister used to date one guy like that. And I have a man like that in...

Cub Scouts starts in 1st grade, if you ever have a son, stick him in there. It's $65... a year. Keep him in there until age 11 and he will blow your mind!

@ForkNdaRoad Cub Scouts starts in 1st grade, if you ever have a son, stick him in there. It's $65... a year. Keep him in there...

We don't have that here. We have the Scouts (CNE). I was there for 12 years. I intend to give the same experience to my children. It's a good place to meet people and learn many useful things.
http://www.cne-escutismo.pt/eng...S/Default.aspx

@Sofia We don't have that here. We have the Scouts (CNE). I was there for 12 years. I intend to give the same experience...

Oh, I didn't realize you were in Portugal! You just taught me something, I didn't realize there was Catholic scout program. Thanks for the link.

Agreed. I must admit, I've never met a more genuinely decent bunch of people, parents and kids alike, than in the scouts. It really has been a wonderful experience. It astounds me how much he's learned through that program thus far. I wish for all young kids to have that experience, it prepares them for life in a way that 'home training' can't quite match.

You talk too much.

Unlike so many others, perhaps you can find those concepts and embrace them. If that concept spreads, perhaps no future generations will have to repeat your question. (Welcome aboard.)

real mothers want to provide everything for their children(boy or girl) it brings them pleasure to allow their children to enjoy this magic time called childhood. In a way I agree with you that bad mothers raise more capable kids, but I think it's just because their lazy. Please don't complain about the type of man you chose we are all not the same. woman today don't cook for men out of spite and laziness giving false feelings of liberation, I've even heard woman complain to anther woman that they shouldn't enjoy cooking for their family. It's sick. It's like you forgot the brave actions of the real woman hero from the 1850's. a woman today isn't half as useful as these ( you said it ) uneducated servants.

@unknowncondition real mothers want to provide everything for their children(boy or girl) it brings them pleasure to allow their...

Appreciate the comment and the fact that you took the time to write it :D but unfortunately (or fortunately :) ) I can't agree with you here. In my opinion, women today, or at least the majority I personally know, are 100 times stronger than the ones before just for the simple fact that now, they do same things as before plus they have a carrier, thing that in the past, for a woman, was impossible to achieve.
So they raise children, take care of the home and their men and, on top of everything else, they also have a 9 to 5. The fact that you heard women complain that they shouldn't enjoy cooking for the families, while for you might be sick, for me it's perfectly reasonable to be honest. When you do things just because people expect you to, they start to take you and the things you do for granted and those things become a burden, even if you enjoy doing them usually. Myself, for instance, really hate cooking and from your logic, even if I hate it, I should do it anyway because... why? Just because I'm a woman and I should ? :))

Forgive me if I might've misunderstood your comment, but I felt the need of explaining myself here. :D

@SilviaPohrib Appreciate the comment and the fact that you took the time to write it :D but unfortunately (or fortunately :) ) I...

you should cook because you need to feed yourself, i'm a single man and I cook almost everyday and when I do it's enough for more then one person. cooking is a trigger point for me because woman have become so lazy that they are not expected to even cook for them selves which every human being needs to do to survive. your getting hung up on being a woman, when these are tasks that must be completed by someone to survive not to get power points. I probably differ from you because I have to do my chores on my own because I have mostly been single my life . so I don't complain about things like cleaning and laundry and cooking because I do them or they wouldn't get done.
If your modern womans movement is so effective with your fancy careers doesn't your resolve make men stronger now that you basically do nothing for them except lay on your back and avoid child birth.
woman today even with all the birth control and abortions still complain about having to raise their children correctly. then I ask you what would your purpose of having the child in the first place ? it seems woman only agree to have babies if the gravy train of a rich man provides them with a work free life.
if you don't have kids thank you , if you do god help them

@unknowncondition you should cook because you need to feed yourself, i'm a single man and I cook almost everyday and when I do it's...

I don't cook because the money from my carrier allows me to not do it, for instance. That's not being lazy, that's being successful. Oh, and I am also single and I know what it means to keep a house together, again, not that is very impressive, as you said these are basic needs that you need to do in order to keep order. Now, I don't know what are you talking about with children and so on, but here, the main topic, is how the majority of men can't do shit without a woman. Not only that, but they expect women to make the work. I'm not saying you are this type of man, I'm just saying that people should learn to be independent. :D

@SilviaPohrib I don't cook because the money from my carrier allows me to not do it, for instance. That's not being lazy, that's...

fine,,, the point is some women like taking care of men and some men like providing for women . don't tell them they can't do so. you are in control of your life and seem more capable then other people , why worry about someones else happiness. too many people tell other people what they can't do, this is oppression. if a woman whats to stay home you should support her as that's what she wants or she would leave.
I was a little hung up on the cooking thing but I find joy in it and cook way better then any restaurant I've been to, too often restaurants don't even sell the great home cooked meals that were the best part of my childhood.
It is now the year 2019 if you are unhappy with mens treatment towards woman then you are the problem because not all men are as you describe. we have solved womens suffrage decades ago. you should honor those true social justice heroes by acknowledging their great achievements. If you give a man a chance i'm sure you will be disappointed to find they are not as chauvinistic as you have been told or taught.
Being an independent woman to you apparently means being alone , if that's the case then leave the co dependent woman alone. this problem should not concern you

@unknowncondition fine,,, the point is some women like taking care of men and some men like providing for women . don't tell them...

I understand your view, but never in the piece I wrote I said that I blame women who enjoy being housewives and such, and I definitely never said all men are the same. I wrote the text referring to a particular typology of men that i have met, observed and have in my life as friends and family. I am not unhappy of the way men treat me because I choose carefully with whom I share my time but all the article was about an idea, it was not to point fingers at anyone. And it's true, women's physical suffering (for the most part) was ended decades ago and I obviously honor the sacrifices of those heroes, otherwise I wouldn't have written the piece in the first place, but that doesn't mean sufferance for women ended. Abused women still exist, controlled women, underpaid women, raped women, disrespected women, catcalled and so on, and all of this happens because a vast majority of men are still hung up on an old mentality (which they may not even be aware of). If I reminded about the things that have happened in the past, it's just because we need to learn from it and may we never forget what they fought for.
Thank you so much for the discussion. It was interesting and enjoyed it very much!

@SilviaPohrib I understand your view, but never in the piece I wrote I said that I blame women who enjoy being housewives and...

ok I reread your post... maybe I missed the point the first time around but now I see we agree.. this is about mothers not knowing how to raise men, a very large group of men are raised by woman and it's not always the fathers fault . We have government laws that force the child to be raised by the mother because it's an excepted norm. while some men are fine with this others are crushed by the inability for them to raise their own child. The government thinks a father can be replaced by childcare payments , this is partially to blame for modern mens shorts comings.(money is not better then nurturing)
For a girl to be raised by a single mother she still gets to see the roles her mother plays in everyday life, sure a fathers view is still important to a young girl but not necessary. the young boys are the ones who suffer only seeing their fathers as weekend (sometimes every two weeks) role models.
Yes dead beat dads are a horrible thing and two numerous to ignore but they get punished by law. where the mothers are failing is they can't and sometimes purposely fail to raise their boys properly. When mothers over compensate and do everything for the boys they become helpless mamas boys , when they don't do enough they become woman haters.
My dad died when I was a teenager and I saw how overwhelmed my mom became. Instead of pushing us together it pushed us apart. I waited for her to tell me I was the "man of the house now" but she was to proud to give me that credit. Even with a deceased father when I talked back or didn't act right she would say that was your fathers job to teach you that. When my mother died two years ago we were completely torn by the elections politics with her holding my defining beliefs against me. She was a strong woman with her mind made up about me and even to my own mother told me I was brainwashed by trumps rhetoric.(as if politics mattered while dying of cancer) It was heartbreaking to watch her to die while we were so torn.
I'm not resentful , just the opposite actually
through this I saw the dangers of men being raised by woman who don't want to raise them. I think I didn't ask for her help enough , I was too strong.
It's not fair to say woman can't raise men because there usually is a dead beat dad somewhere that is showing what is accepted by women.
so anyway I guess the point is men need to raise boys simple as that. just how you feel about the shortcomings of men some mothers project this on their sons and create terrible men. I'm somewhere in the middle I saw that my mom would not have survived with my dad because that's what relationships and childbearing are. A mutual attempt at surviving. It's mutual but not equal, men have roles to fill as do women.
Until we get rid of the notion that woman are better child raisers in the governments eyes and stop legally separating the boys from their fathers we will have these helpless half men. No amount of childcare payments can make up for this absence. yes this post was ridiculously long and pointless but I now realize we agree... most overbearing mothers raise shitty men!!

I think you need to add something about woman who can't survive unless in a relationship ,... maybe that's what I first responded to was the one sidedness toward men... many woman are helpless on their own

I think the main point here is not really who adults have become, but rather that we as a society are raising a lazy generation that is disrespectful, ungrateful and feel they are automatically entitled. If you really want to look forward to the future, you need to look at today.

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