My brother's best friend has pulled more than his fair share of tours but he does so because he enjoys severing his country. I honestly can't remember when the last time he came home. As soon as one tour is done he is begging to go right back in.
I have a number of feelings about combat tours, having had a number of them myself over the years.
Combat tours are too close together in todays military! I know of soldiers who have served 5 out of seven years in combat. That is too much! The military is so reduced in strength that it has put a huge strain on the most important resource, the soldier.
People turn their head and just say, "That's their job." These are men and women, not machines you can turn on an off. Down the road we are going to have a large number of ex-soldiers in our country that are having a difficult time adjusting and people will wonder why it happened.
For those of you old enough to remember, look at some of our Viet Nam vets and how messed up some of them still are, 40 years later, and after only one combat tour.
If the American people want more boots on the ground in combat areas, they have to approve of getting more "new" boots on the ground in our military.
That is what i am afraid of. I do not wish to see so many of our troops in so many places. No way can a soldier come out of constant combat, whole.
I do remember when those boys came home. Too many could not get past it. And we as a nation, turned our collective heads.
I also do not believe in the draft, not like it was back then.
I fear we are headed into a black hole, and it has no bottom
We've been in that hole for the past 16 years Carla.
If people don't volunteer, a draft may be what's needed. (I hope not) One thing about a "fair" draft, is that war will touch everyone's doorstep, not just a few. When everyone has the potential of going to war, that war quickly becomes "real" to them.
I hope it doesnt come to that either. But, signing up means a very different thing now then it used to.
War was always a possibility. Now it is a certainty. I dont see young men and women flocking to recruitment centers to sign up under this administration.
And how fair will a draft be? Or can it be?
No one that i have read or heard, say anything disparaging about our soldiers.
Your music link means nothing to me.
These young people who defend us , do.
And i am well aware of when the draft ended and of the influx of recruits after 9/11.
I am a liberal, i get it. I dont like it, and dont agree with longevity of it. But i get it.
Here we go, i am in the middle of a conversation, tring to see anothers point of view, and here you come, insulting me.
I do not take your views seriously as you dont listen and try to understand my views.
You call me a liberal so i cannot understand. THAT is insulting.
You know im a liberal, you generalized liberals as not getting it and not understanding what our soldiers are fighting for. Insults and belittling tone.
I havent a thin skin, just know when someone is putting me down.
Again, i put no stock in what you have to say. You have no desire to consider my views. And because of your intolerance, i have no reason to consider yours.
Just because i believe you to be hateful doesnt mean i care a bit that you hate those like myself.
Gronk. I am not embarrassed, nor am i stupid.
From previous discussions you have said some pretty disparaging words. Those words have clearly explaied how you feel.
When you say liberals dont get that the men and women in our armed services are there to protect us, that insults me. If you want call me thin skinned for that, i dont care.
And just so you know, we have many enemies. These kids don't sign up to annihilate anyone. They would never get past the phyc tests. They sign up to protect us. Another reason i cant take you seriously. You, here, think one way. And it shows.
Your husband's hunting buddy can try to sell his 'property with an ocean view' to one of your gullible trump supporter friends. Im not interested
What is funny is you didnt see the sarcasm in my response regarding said property..
THAT just goes to show the blinders you choose to wear. That is the real issue with you people. Blinders. This administration keeps dangling the carrot, right in front of you, and you go for it. But, you miss what is going on around you. That is sad.
And i wecome input from anyone who chooses to engage.
It is the disrepectful words and tone that i can do without
Empathy if not reciprocated is wasted.
You have no empathy. So i refuse to waste mine on you
Just as many people are trying to get into the military now as they were over the past 8 years. With cutting the military numbers like they have in the past 8 years, there just aren't enough slots to be filled. (Not everyone who wants to go in, can.)
We have been at war for the past 16 years straight. Anyone who tries to tell you different has their head up their ass. If we have troops in a foreign land, being shot at and dying, we are at war. (Declared or not) Remember that Viet Nam wasn't a declared war either, and we ended up with over 58,000 dead American soldiers.
No draft can be completely fair. Some say Trumps kids won't be going to war. Neither will Clinton's or Obama's. Neither will the kids of the Hollywood crowd.
Yes viet nam, a conflict....no...war.
So...why are they not allowing new recruits in and forcing out the ones who have served so much time in battle? I know there is monetary issues.
Is it the troops choice to go? Over and over?
It's not up to the troops when or where they go.
I see the definition of war as when soldiers are fighting, not when some politicians declare it's a war.
Would it be fair to force soldiers out who want to make a career out of it? "Go to war, maybe die, we are done with you now. Get out"?
You need to keep the long term experience in the military. It takes years to be good at your job and it takes even longer to learn how to command and lead troops.
But, can a soldier continue to be in physical combat for years, as you stated 5 out of seven, and be effective? Retain objectivity? Proper response? Humanity? Humility?
All sodiers can't be leaders.
Maybe stop contracting out to civilian companies for jobs relating or supporting the military? I know a guy who went overseas, several times to repair helecopters. About 100 grand for 7 months work. Plus per diem.
Many soldiers are very effective in combat for years and years.... It's when they are not in combat that they have a harder time adjusting to "normal" life.
There will always be contractors out there because you need continuity and expertize in certain areas. Why would a soldier making 20K a year stay in the military when he can get 50 -70K in the civilian sector, without going into combat?
But that is backward. Why arent soldiers trained in those fields. You told me that there has to be delayed enlistment because there is no room for new recruits. People wanting careers in the service
And, i am afraid for those soldiers who do well 'in theatre' and fail when returning to civilian society. That seems to me as making machines of men
They are trained in those fields Carla. After they serve their initial enlistment, they get out and get a higher paying job. It's like a mechanics shop. The guys fresh out of school can work on cars, but who figures out the hard problems and who is in charge of quality control? The guy who has been in the field for 20 -30 years.
I worry about some of those guys as well. As usual, what are we doing to help them? Not much.
Conundrums. Needs much more intellegent people than i to think it all through and find solutions.
I think a draft will be needed soon. We have stretched ourselves too thin, because of all the conflicts we've been in lately, and now Trump is putting us in more danger by bullying Korea. But he doesn't care, his sons won't be going to war, just like he didn't.
I highly doubt there'll ever be another draft. If WWIII, in the traditional sense of warfare, were to happen it would be over in about a day and without enough people left alive for a draft. It'll be more about getting away from the fallout at that point. Survival and every person for theirself.
But if there IS a draft, I sincerely hope a 5-time draft dodger doesn't eventually become president in our brave new world....
Who woulda thunk?!?!
Maybe if he were a liberal, but even then I'd be pissed.
Bill clinton was deferred, too. Dont remember how many times. I do know he was in school. Didnt feign a bad ankle
Bill Clinton was deferred for a time, and then he was ordered to report for duty. He didn't go.
Don't forget, when you hear the rhetoric about how Trumps kids won't go... they are too old to go in and... Obama's kids and Clinton's kid will never go either.
Certainly wasnt excusing bill. I think if there is a draft, every man and woman between the ages of 21 and 28 should be considered.
Exclude parents, caregivers and people with real physical resrictions.
But even saying that makes me cringe
And the back end of that age requirement could go older, i reckon
The draft starts at age 18. If they excluded "parents", how many "new" daddy's and mommies would appear after they got their notice? Many of the soldiers who have died, had families.
Those who are physically or mentally unfit have always been excluded from the draft. When I went through the reception center in 72 for my physical, you had guys who claimed they wet the bed, were homosexual, and any other excuse imaginable to avoid the draft.
I was speaking of my thoughts on age. I know 18 is the age. I went in at 17. I had parental permission.
Too, too young. And if not a parent when notified, then not deferrable.
I know many family men and women have lost their lives.
Again, just my thoughts
The idea of a draft....well, as i said... for me, abhorrent
I went in on my 17th birthday. (Got kicked out of school anyway..<s>) It was what I needed.
I went in 76
Got my ged. By then, they were picky about who got to go. The gi bill was being changed and there was a flock to the services. Wanted navy, wait was very long. Chose the air force. Still a wait. Army and marines, very short.
But....you know all that:)
LOL..... I joined and wanted to go infantry. (The recruiter was probably asking himself if all farm kids were this stupid)
Viet Nam was still going strong and the draft was still happening so anyone could get into any service. Took a test and they gave me a GED. Finished real HS in Germany, got out, went to a real college, got commissioned during the early Reagan era, resigned and got out when Clinton got elected. 9/11 happened and was recalled involuntarily (essentially drafted) to command a unit for almost three years. (Small print in officers commissioning that says they can recall you until 10 years after you are dead I think)
I reckon dead men can tell tales and comfort those on their way to combat.
Like Bill Clinton?
I guess the ones who keep calling Trump a draft dodger didn't want to comment on this one.
But you'd expect that from a liberal who happened to be a Rhodes Scholar at the time. Not from a tough talking "conservative" who's actually just a pussy. : )
They can call Canada to come in...I'm unsure what we're doing out there or not....