Because of clueless PETA, the "Circus will not be Coming to Town."

Folks, everyone of you know I love animals. I think I have made it abundantly clear that I not only treasure our four legged friends, but I respect them. However, PETA is one organization, I have never cared for. I find it to be grand standing, obnoxious, and usually off message. Ringling Brothers may have had it's share of bad actors in it's employment, but for the most part, it was a very responsible circus when it came to the treatment of it's animals. Compare it to the smaller circuses traveling around Europe, it shone like a ruby when it came to animal rights. This Circus for over 140 years allowed people to forget the grind of their daily lives, and allowed them to witness the beauty of exotic animals that were only seen in books. During the hard times of the Depression, the "Circus coming to Town" was a Godsend. I recall marveling at intelligence and color of Tigers deftly doing their act at Ringling Brother's Circus, when I was only twelve. The love and respect that the handler and tigers displayed towards one another left me awestruck, especially when I think of how they are treated by MAN in the wild. So, I guess what I am telling you,is that this 'animal activist' is sorry to see "The Ringling Brother's Circus" leaving town, and not coming back.

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@2574529

The animal rights group are what did it in, although I agree that the internet hasn't helped.

Ringling Brothers is by no means taint free, but it was for the most part a responsible organization.

If PETA wants to target circuses, than I suggest the smaller ones over in Europe.

This is what PETA and the ASPCA are really doing.

The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA), PETA, and other animal groups sued the circus, alleging that it violated the Endangered Species Act by its treatment of Asian elephants in its circus. These allegations were based primarily on the testimony of a circus barn worker. After nine years of litigation and a six-week non-jury trial, the Court dismissed the suit in a written decision, finding that the barn worker was not credible (ASPCA v. Feld Entmโ€™t, Inc., 677 F. Supp. 2d 55 (D.D.C. 2009)).[44] In 2012, the circus learned that the animal rights groups had paid the barn worker $190,000 to be a plaintiff in the lawsuit regarding the Asian elephants. The circus sued the animal rights groups under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, accusing them of conspiracy to harm its business and other illegal acts.[45] The ASPCA agreed to pay the circus $9.2 million to settle the lawsuit

This is so sad ... I can't imagine a childhood without a circus experience.

@JanHaskell This is so sad ... I can't imagine a childhood without a circus experience.

When we were children Jan, there was so much that was new that we'd never seen before.

I agree PETA, does more harm then good. They go after what they feel will give them the most press, not for the animals. Good post Dru๐Ÿ˜Š

PETA may have played a small role, but many factors led to the decision. Circuses involving 'wild animals' have always made me uneasy and rather sad, and long before I heard of any animal rights "activist" group.

Whipping, prodding and goading a tiger, lion, elephant or any other animal into performing tricks for human entertainment, just isn't my idea of "respecting" them. Apparently, I'm not alone...

http://news.nationalgeographic....e-photography/

@Piper2 PETA may have played a small role, but many factors led to the decision. Circuses involving 'wild animals'...

As I stated above, Ringling Brothers is not taint free. It has been known to have a few bad actors in it's mist.

But for the most part, the animals were treated well,since they were the bread and butter of that show.

A responsible trainer cracks the whip, he never hits them with it.

I disagree with your definition of respecting animals. My definition of cruelty to a tiger, would be the idiot who has one cramped up in a crate in his/her backyard. Or the greedy lowlife who poaches them to sell their body parts on the black market.

But I cant equate cruelty with 'training' an animal.

You want an enemy of animals? Look to the Humane Society, not Ringling Brothers.

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@dru18 As I stated above, Ringling Brothers is not taint free. It has been known to have a few bad actors in it's...

Watching the interaction between an animal and it's trainer is a pretty good indicator of the treatment it has received. Watching the interaction between the lion trainer and the cats doesn't reflect abuse. Actually, it's quite the opposite.

@JustJimColo Watching the interaction between an animal and it's trainer is a pretty good indicator of the treatment it has...

Exactly. A small circus over in Europe, a few years ago, had it's animals confiscated by authorities. One of the tigers was whimpering and cringing in the back of his too small cage. He had been beaten into submission.

That is the kind of tortuous "training" that should be banned.

As you can tell by the above photo, that was not the method used on those magnificent cats.

@dru18 As I stated above, Ringling Brothers is not taint free. It has been known to have a few bad actors in it's...

I have little doubt, that some of the handlers and caretakers with Ringling Brothers treated the animals well, and even kindly. That does not change the reality of what the lives of the animals used in most any "circus" are like.

Nothing else you've said there, has anything to do with my response to the question. As I stated, I've always felt uneasy and rather sad, about 'wild' animals being forced into a life of performing tricks for human entertainment....

@Piper2 I have little doubt, that some of the handlers and caretakers with Ringling Brothers treated the animals well, and...

And I do believe that this post was SPECIFICALLY about the closing down of RINGLING BROTHERS, not circuses in general. I think I also mention how cruel many of the smaller circuses in Europe are to their
animals.

Once again, it depends on how they are treated. Sea World sucked, Ringling Brothers did not.

Animal's rights groups need to pick their battles,....wisely.

@dru18 And I do believe that this post was SPECIFICALLY about the closing down of RINGLING BROTHERS, not circuses in...

Dru, I have seen animals in small cages being poked and prodded into 'performing' for human entertainment, those years I lived in Europe as a child. The memories of it still haunt me.

However you or I feel about PETA though, they have indeed done undercover work that has led to changes in the way animals are treated, in several venues. They have made a big noise about the atrocious treatment of animals in Europe.

I believe this post was about PETA SPECIFICALLY being responsible for Ringling Brothers closing down their traveling circus with wild animals acts. I do believe I stated my opinion about that, and circuses that involve wild animals, right there in my first response to your post...

@Piper2 Dru, I have seen animals in small cages being poked and prodded into 'performing' for human...

PETA not only was instrumental in closing down Ringling Brothers, but it was caught lying in doing so. A BIG and costly lie.

Like many animal right's groups, they start out to about the animal, and then it becomes about them.

I agree that the smaller European circuses are the ones mostly to mistreat their animals, and being so small, they fly under the radar.

I respectfully disagree with you. With all the atrocities that are done to animals, (research, poaching, physical abuse and neglect, trophy hunting, destroying their environment, etc.....) TRAINING them, is the least of their problems.

@dru18 PETA not only was instrumental in closing down Ringling Brothers, but it was caught lying in doing so. A BIG and...

I do not need to "research" any of those subjects, Dru. We disagree about about mourning the loss of Ringling Brothers Circus and their wild animal 'acts', is all....

Is your post about how most people feel about PETA these days , or circuses that keep animals in concrete cages, trek them around the country, train them into submission, and force them to perform 'tricks' for human entertainment?

It's okay, you know, that some people have a different feeling about that than you clearly do....

@Piper2 I do not need to "research" any of those subjects, Dru. We disagree about about mourning the loss of Ringling...

"or circuses that keep animals in concrete cages, trek them around the country, train them into submission, and force them to perform 'tricks' for human entertainment?"

Once again, you have the wrong circus.

My post was about a lot of things, memories, animal rights, circuses, etc.... but mostly it was about a animal group that MISSES the big picture.

But that is the problem with groups like PETA. They become so impressed with themselves, the actual cause takes a back seat.

@dru18 "or circuses that keep animals in concrete cages, trek them around the country, train them into submission, and...

Dru, Ringling Brothers certainly may well have treated their animals better than other 'lesser' circuses, and likely did. But no, I do have the "wrong" circus in that description.

@Piper2 Dru, Ringling Brothers certainly may well have treated their animals better than other 'lesser' circuses...

I never considered correct training of an animal to equate submission. Those tigers are not afraid of that trainer, nor should they be. They command the upmost reverence. I rather view it as working with an animal to bring out it's natural talent, while treating it with love, and mostly, respect.

I value your opinion. But I just don't see training as animal abuse.

@Piper2 I have little doubt, that some of the handlers and caretakers with Ringling Brothers treated the animals well, and...

Well get set for some more sadness. Ringling Brother's tigers are being sold to a circus over in Germany, instead of being retired to a sanctuary.

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@dru18 Well get set for some more sadness. Ringling Brother's tigers are being sold to a circus over in Germany, instead...

So much for Ringling Brothers shining like a ruby, then. Yes, that is sad. I read a lot about sanctuaries being willing to take in the 'retired' big cats.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rin...-are-outraged/

@Piper2 So much for Ringling Brothers shining like a ruby, then. Yes, that is sad. I read a lot about sanctuaries...

I am so disappointed. I thought they were better than that. They retired their elephants, so why not all of the animals? Just goes to show all of us, that money comes first, and animals always come in... dead last.

@dru18 I am so disappointed. I thought they were better than that. They retired their elephants, so why not all of the...

From what I've read about the place the elephants were retired to, it's not exactly a "sanctuary".

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@2589541

First of all, you are preaching to the choir. I stand proudly behind the rights of all animals. I have made their welfare my life.

My point was, is sometimes you have to pick your battles. The animals were taken good care of at Ringling Brothers.

Of all the bad things that can happen to an animal, training it, doesn't even make the top ten.

I stopped going to the circus when i was very, very little. I saw the look in the elephants eyes. She looked very sad. It was then that i started collecting everything, elephant.

Circus animals are historically trained by torturous methods. Held in small enclosures, the elephants, chained.

Ever see an elephant rocking to and fro? Everyone who has seen one in a small zoo or circus has. That is a movement that isnt seen in the wild. It is unnatural. Elephants are migrating animals. It is thier nature to travel long distances. What these circuses do goes against the elephants very nature. And for what? Your entertainment??
Same with the other wild creatures they exploit.

Well trained (humanely) domesticated animals can be very entertaining, as well as human acts. There is your circus. Leave the wild creatures to the wild and to the natural habitat zoos that are trying to save species.

@Carla I stopped going to the circus when i was very, very little. I saw the look in the elephants eyes. She looked very...

If animals are treated well, (and yes I agree that elephants need to roam), then I see no reason why they can't be trained, whether it be for a movie, the stage, or the circus.

There are plenty of circuses in Europe who mistreat their animals while going under the radar. In Italy, recently, hundreds of animals were rescued from a circus. Their idea of training a tiger was beating it into submission.

Why not go after the Humane Society who only uses 40% of any donation they receive, towards the animals?

@dru18 If animals are treated well, (and yes I agree that elephants need to roam), then I see no reason why they can't be...

Wild animals, are just that. Keeping them and training them, goes against their nature. How many elephants, tigers, chimps bears,have been put down because they turned against humans? How many humans have been mauled and, or killed by a wild animal that was brought up with kindness? Too many.
I dont find the use of wild animals in film, onstage or elsewhere, entertaining. Nowadays computers can do amazing things.
I, as you know owned a wolf hybred. That even goes against what i truly believe. But as i told you, i feared for her. But i do not advocate their breeding.

I am not familiar with humane society donation allocation.

@Carla Wild animals, are just that. Keeping them and training them, goes against their nature. How many elephants, tigers...

I still think animals can be trained, while being treated with respect. In fact i enjoyed the days when we had 'Bart the bear' in movies instead of cheesy looking computer animation. I also know he lived a great life with his handler, trainer, and owners.

In fact, some of our famous trained animals were rescues, like 'Fred the cockatoo'.

However, I don't think just anybody should own one. I know of idiots who own tigers and keep them cramped up in cages for people to pay 10 dollars to view. Too many states allow this.

Yes they are wild animals, and nobody should ever become complacent around them. Siegfried and Roy knew the chances they were taking. And when Siegfried was attacked, the first thing he yelled was "Don't hurt the tiger!

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@2589536

What tools hatve you been so privileged to see, that the rest of us have not?

As I have stated before, a GOOD trainer never ever hits the tiger. He cracks the whip but it never touches the tiger. If he were to harm that animal, he would not only lose it's respect, but most likely his own life.

You want to help tigers? I suggest you go after the mindless humans over in this country that keep them as pets. There are more tigers living as pets, than are roaming the wilds.

There is something seriously wrong with that picture.

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@2599620

A institution that has been around for over 140 years, is bound to have some bad actors, now and then, as I have alluded to, in my explanation. Plus there has been an evolution of thinking ( without PETA!) in how we view animals. Those elephants will be heading off to a sanctuary, come 2018.

Ringling Brother's fought PETA and their ilk, and came away with a sixteen million dollar settlement. Apparently PETA was not above paying people to lie.

Ringling Brothers came to the right conclusion. I can hardly say the same about poachers, trophy hunters, European circuses,and selfish people who view tigers as pets.

You can't be serious. Even the most luxurious cage is still captivity. Forcing animals to sing and dance for their dinner to amuse a crowd of mindless primates is barbaric. I don't like PETA either but occasionally the stumble across a clue.

@urwutuis You can't be serious. Even the most luxurious cage is still captivity. Forcing animals to sing and dance for their...

You want to help tigers out? Then I suggest you go after the poachers, trophy hunter, canned hunts, and the fools, who keep them as pets.

There are more tigers living over here, as pets, than there are ones roaming in the wild.

Now that, is a tragedy.

@dru18 You want to help tigers out? Then I suggest you go after the poachers, trophy hunter, canned hunts, and the fools...

So exploitation and mistreatment of animals is fine as long as it's by your rules.
How many tigers are kept as pets and where is "over here"?

No matter how well treated Shamu doesn't want to live in a swimming pool.

@urwutuis So exploitation and mistreatment of animals is fine as long as it's by your rules. How many tigers are kept as...

Confusing Sea World with Barnum Baily?

In America. And yes, more are owned by people than are living in the wilds. 17 states don't have any regulations at all when it comes to owning a tiger. In fact, owning a pitbull is harder.

@dru18 Confusing Sea World with Barnum Baily? In America. And yes, more are owned by people than are living in the wilds...

Confusing? It's comparative. You think elephants want to live on a chain?

As irrelevant as it is they may be owned by people but that doesn't make them pets and it doesn't justify captivity.

@urwutuis Confusing? It's comparative. You think elephants want to live on a chain? As irrelevant as it is they may be...

The point I was making, is that there are far worse things happening to tigers than teaching them tricks. And there are far worse circuses than Barnum & Bailey.

Somehow, you got onto the Elephants, which Barnum & Bailey did release to a sanctuary. And since they won the lawsuit, they didn't have to.

Now do you want to stop the poaching and trophy hunting of tigers, not to mention the 17 states that allow people to own them, OR, do you want to bitch about 'Siegfried and Roy', while giving yourself a pat on the back?

@dru18 The point I was making, is that there are far worse things happening to tigers than teaching them tricks. And there...

I understand that there are worse things and I agree that poaching is a much bigger problem than circuses. This is one of the external costs of Capitalism.

@dru18 Or Man's inhumanity.

If there wasn't profit involved it wouldn't be a problem. It's the system.
Created by sociopaths, for the benefit sociopaths.

@urwutuis If there wasn't profit involved it wouldn't be a problem. It's the system. Created by sociopaths, for the benefit...

I agree, that Capitalism rules, but I still think we want to own everything we see.

There is no money gained by owning a tiger, but there is no truer saying than: "We saw, we came, we conquered."

Well, there is that, but the carnie people were mostly to blame. For example, I got a free pass to the circus and the ticket taker charged me a quarter anyway, "for tax". That was the last circus I ever went to.

@SmartAZ Well, there is that, but the carnie people were mostly to blame. For example, I got a free pass to the circus and...

Carnival, or Circus? I was never allowed to go those smaller 'fly by night' deals when I was little.

Not clueless. Do YOU have a clue as to what tortures those animals went thru? It's sickening. Before judging, look into it. If you see nothing wrong with those atrocities then i really have nothing else to say.

@Trish Not clueless. Do YOU have a clue as to what tortures those animals went thru? It's sickening. Before judging...

I have looked into it, and I take animal abuse very seriously. I wish you had taken the same time and approach, that I have, when reading this post.

PETA, like so many animals rights groups, goes wildly off message, until it becomes about them, and not the animal. They have been caught in bribing people to lie in this particular case.

No longer about the animal? Now that is what I call abuse.

Peta's heart might be in the right place, but I think even most animal people would agree that they always (in your words) "grand standing, obnoxious, and usually off message."

I remember them saying it was too hot for a pet to be outside for a full hour by themselves in 80 heat...or too cold in 60 cool. Basically their message was if you leave a pet outside by themselves for more than 5 minutes to maybe 20 minutes then you should be arrested.

Umm, which of the following is true?

1) do they not follow their own rules/suggestions?
2) do they not own pets?
3) do they literally baby sit their pets at ALL times?

Because I don't know of anyone that follows their strict suggestions... even the ones that are pro peta. One Animal lover I knew even pointed out that Peta has an extremely high kill rate at their shelters and extremely low adopted rate... which I've never quite heard a good reason for.

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@2589565

And there are ones who use their parts so old stupid men can get an erection. Want to hunt one for a trophy? Why just shell out a lot of dough, and you too take participate in a CANNED HUNT!!

Now, you wanna keep bitching about 'Siegfried and Roy'?

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@2599616

Keep making the comparisons, for in the future, the circus may well be the only place, where a tiger exist.

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@2599755

That is just plain wrong on so many levels. India has made great strides towards cloning tigers. And for that, you need them,..alive.

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@2599777

Did the part of cloning go over your head?

But I will address your invalid point.

Only if they are treated well, respected,while being constantly stimulated in learning new tricks, with plenty of room to roam.

Though PETA sometimes goes over the top with their efforts, I'd rather they continue the fight against animal abuse than ignore the senseless suffering at the hands of Man... that happens all too often.

I am amazed that you're annoyed that you are missing out on watching and paying for animals being tortured and abused in a stupid circus.

@LiVi I am amazed that you're annoyed that you are missing out on watching and paying for animals being tortured and...

I am amazed that you know nothing about the real threat to tigers, except to attribute it to an 140 year old circus.

In short, I am amazed that you answered a post, with a stereotypical reply, combined with a shortage of knowledge.

@dru18 I am amazed that you know nothing about the real threat to tigers, except to attribute it to an 140 year old...

Lol this response doesn't make any sense at all.. what argument are you trying to make - that it's ok to pay to watch animals being abused in a circus? What shortage of knowledge are you on about? Is it that I lack understanding of how you get off on seeing others hurt animals? You seem to be missing the point of my comment to your ridiculous post. It's sad that there are still idiots in the world who miss circuses like the ring bros...

@LiVi Lol this response doesn't make any sense at all.. what argument are you trying to make - that it's ok to pay to...

I think I made myself perfectly clear. You came onto this post, with a stupid, stale, stereotypical reply, and no knowledge of the subject.

You automatically see ALL circuses as a death sentence to animals. I concur, with most of the smaller circuses that travel through Europe. And I have stated that Ringling Brothers has hired it share of assholes.

But I do not see it as a threat to tigers, as poaching, trophy hunting, along with their lose of habitat. In other words, I do not see the training of such animals to be detrimental, to not only the individual, but the species as a whole.

Circuses brought delight to people, especially poor people, especially during the Great Depression. We have come a long way towards understanding the feelings of animals. And so had Ringling Brothers.

I have been working with wolves since I was small, being that my parents worked with them. I have been a stanch defender of animals ever since I wrote my first letter to the president, when I was ten.

Tigers are indeed threatened, and we must do everything to protect them.

But the issue goes far beyond any circus.

@dru18 I think I made myself perfectly clear. You came onto this post, with a stupid, stale, stereotypical reply, and no...

Lol ๐Ÿ˜‚

Do you actually believe this bullish!t you are coming up with or are you just in denial? Both I assume...

@LiVi Lol ๐Ÿ˜‚ Do you actually believe this bullish!t you are coming up with or are you just in denial? Both I assume...

Yes, i actually believe you are a clueless moron, who thinks that closing down Barnum & Bailey circus will help restore the diminishing tiger population.

@dru18 Yes, i actually believe you are a clueless moron, who thinks that closing down Barnum & Bailey circus will help...

Who said anything about tiger population?

I don't understand why you have completely evaded the whole point of this conversation (animal abuse) and gone on some crazy rant about population and your fondness for wolves.

Lol ๐Ÿ˜‚

@LiVi Who said anything about tiger population? I don't understand why you have completely evaded the whole point of...

Then you really have missed the whole point, not to mention the sad fact, that you can't read worth a damn.

The "abuse" of any wild animal, does include humans capturing, selling them, poaching, and hunting them, to the point of extinction.

And as I have stated, Ringling Brothers was not abusing it's tigers, as other circuses have.

Next time, when you reply, make sure your caregiver is with you.

I don't know anything about PETA, but I think the circus has simply become a thing of the past. People would rather watch their cellphones.

I'm not a fan of circuses but I am really not a fan of PETA. It is a self serving organization that has gone off the rails. It doesn't matter to them who is hurt as long as they get their due. I don't think they really have the animals welfare in mind when they pull their many, many shenanigans.

I am not a fan of PETA by no means but I know in the past there have been circuses that have mistreated animals. I don't know the details of this particular circus but I know it happens which is sad.

๐Ÿฆ‹

@Lil_Princess I am not a fan of PETA by no means but I know in the past there have been circuses that have mistreated animals. I...

Barnum Baily has had some bad apples in it's time, but the smaller European circuses, that fly under the radar, are truly the villains in animals abuse.

PETA has to be stopped. A movement to close them down for good needs to start.

Hopefully someone either takes over for Ringling Bros or someone buys them and starts everything back up.

Good,animals weren't made to perform for dumb people.

@hootowl Good,animals weren't made to perform for dumb people.

Perhaps, but I know damn good and well, that they weren't made to adorn our walls, while being hunted to the brink of of extinction.

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