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How do you compare Obama with Trump? The malice against Obama far outweighed the negativity against Trump.

Amirite exploded with hostility when Obama was "in power"... This took up all the space for hatred within the site; no wonder we, as a site, broke down after... The feeling against Trump is not that negative; perhaps with several people...that's not too bad. Altho it can be a bit of a downer. There are Amiriters who stay away from the political section. Determinedly, since "they" say...*No matter what you do or say...nothing can or does effect change...so why, especially after years of trying...I've finally learned: why bother? Personally I think...Trump is more of a macho man... So...what do YOU think and don't hold back.

Image for post **How do you compare Obama with Trump?** //The **malice** against Obama far outweighed the negativity against Trump.//
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No way. I completely disagree. You people hate Trump because he's a capitalist, which stands in stark contrast against your socialism.

@JerryHendrickson No way. I completely disagree. You people hate Trump because he's a capitalist, which stands in stark contrast...

I don't hate him at all. But especially not because he's a capitalist - he isn't. lol He's a corporativist, big difference.

The two are quite similar in some ways. Both came on the scene as outsiders, and said a lot of things that appealed to average people. Both were critical of the corrupt and unsustainable status quo, and won support as a result of their willingness to speak frankly. Heck, Obama talked so well on the campaign trail that he got a Nobel Peace Prize. But talk is cheap, so I pay more attention to action than words.

For all his pre-election rhetoric, once in office, Obama was clearly a salesman for the agenda of the global elite. And as a result, he did a lot of things that were harmful to the interests of Americans, but he's a smooth talker, and he got a lot of support from the elite's media, so if you weren't paying too much attention, it would be easy to think he did a fairly good job. Naturally though, not everyone was buying what he was selling.

Trump on the other hand, is in many ways what everyone says they want in a leader. He made a bunch of promises on the campaign trail, but rather than pulling a 180 once in office, he's actually following through and doing what he said: serving the interests of his constituents. You'd expect the press to love a politician who does that, and the independent media basically does love him, but the elite's media is still serving the elite's agenda, so they hate his guts. Or at least that's the image they portray, who knows what they actually think.

@Maze The two are quite similar in some ways. Both came on the scene as outsiders, and said a lot of things that appealed...

The "elite's media"? Would that be the same media that doesn't conform to your beliefs?

Sorry, but Trump is for Trump and nothing else. His pulling out of the Paris Agreement will cost us thousands of jobs in clean energy. And Coal doesn't stand a chance, because there are cheaper alternatives. Sot the jobs are leaving, regardless of anything Trump does. And he knows that.

And for your information, Trump was elected 'President of the United States, not 'President of his base'.

@dru18 The "elite's media"? Would that be the same media that doesn't conform to your beliefs? Sorry, but Trump is for...

Amen, and he doesn't have much of a base anymore. Even the coal miners think he has lost his mind.

@StarzAbove Amen, and he doesn't have much of a base anymore. Even the coal miners think he has lost his mind.

I think he has lost whatever mind he had. Did you read that "tweet"? Many of us thought he had a stroke as he was typing it.

@dru18 I think he has lost whatever mind he had. Did you read that "tweet"? Many of us thought he had a stroke as he was...

Yes, I saw that tweet. I wouldn't doubt it for one minute, his face is always red and bloated, and he never makes any sense. And his staff has never given a clear answer as to what happened.

@dru18 The "elite's media"? Would that be the same media that doesn't conform to your beliefs? Sorry, but Trump is for...

I call them the elite's media because they're owned by a handful of very rich men.

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[Forbes 2015] The Paris Treaty promises to keep temperature rises below 2°C. However, the actual promises made here will do almost nothing to achieve that. It is widely accepted that to keep temperature rises below 2°C, we have to reduce CO₂ emissions by 6,000Gt.

The UNFCCC estimates that if every country makes every single promised Paris Treaty carbon cut between 2016 and 2030 to the fullest extent possible and there is no carbon leakage, CO₂ emissions will be cut by 56 Gt by 2030.

The math is simple: in an implausibly optimistic best-case scenario, Paris leaves 99% of the problem in place.

To say that Paris will get us to 2°C is cynical posturing at best. It relies on wishful thinking.

Using the best individual and collectively peer-reviewed economic models, the total cost of Paris – through slower GDP growth from higher energy costs – will reach $1-2 trillion every year from 2030.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bj.../#6bbbe532558c

I said Trump is representing the interests of his constituents, that's the American public, not just those who voted for him.

@Maze I call them the elite's media because they're owned by a handful of very rich men...

Yeah, Murdoch is so poor.

This country is forging ahead without Trump. Every mayor in the country is going ahead with it's city's promise. Every major company is against Trump and for the Paris Agreement, even Exxon, so they too, will continue on the right road.

Solar Energy is getting cheaper, so it will be the energy of the future. Coal is out.

Our involvement was symbolic, with every country looking to us as the leader. Most are shaking their heads, and muttering WTF.

Trump is ignorant at best. He is a man child without any curiosity, vision, or leadership, that most Great former presidents have possessed.

And by the way, "his constituents" have always been in the minority. 37%! Oy, not good.

@dru18 Yeah, Murdoch is so poor. This country is forging ahead without Trump. Every mayor in the country is going ahead...

I think green energy is great, the more the better as far as I'm concerned. But you need coal to make steel, and you need steel to make ... everything, or almost everything, most things contain some steel. You can't be beholden to foreign nations for a fundamental building block of national defense, it's unwise.

And the steel will be made, make no mistake about that, China and India don't have to cut anything until 2030 under that agreement.

It's a bad deal. Trump is savvy enough to see that, and not everyone is, so I think you're lucky to have him.

@Maze I think green energy is great, the more the better as far as I'm concerned. But you need coal to make steel, and...

LMAO!! Lucky to have him? He's not my president.

China and India have already been taking steps, along with everyone else. We were too, until Trump stepped in.

Bad deal?! This is not one of Trump's real estate deals. Something you and he fail to see.

Pittsburgh, as you know, has already made their peace with the decline of steel, and already are moving on. They have for sometime.

@dru18 LMAO!! Lucky to have him? He's not my president. China and India have already been taking steps, along with...

Oh yeah, so are you going to "move on" from using products that contain steel? No? Well where do you plan to get it from if the US isn't making it? Doesn't making steel release CO2 regardless of where on earth it's produced? So what are you saving by moving steel production from Pittsburgh to China? Do you think Chinese steel workers will be better customers for American products than steel workers in Pittsburgh?

@Maze Oh yeah, so are you going to "move on" from using products that contain steel? No? Well where do you plan to get it...

So now you are thinking of getting the jobs back?! Whole other ballgame, my friend. Trump is not bringing those jobs back. The cost of America labor is much higher than that of other countries. Not going to happen.

I thought we were discussing the environment.

@dru18 So now you are thinking of getting the jobs back?! Whole other ballgame, my friend. Trump is not bringing those...

Of course those jobs are coming back. When it becomes profitable to produce in the US, people will do it.

How does it benefit "the environment" to move industrial production to countries with no environmental standards? You must know that most foreign steel is produced without regard for the environment or workers. Why do you support that?

@Maze Of course those jobs are coming back. When it becomes profitable to produce in the US, people will do it. How...

In case you haven't read, China is keeping up their end of the bargain.

And I didn't say the jobs were moved because of the environment, did I ? I said it was because labor was cheap in other countries. You couldn't find anyone to work for those kind of wages over here. They wouldn't be able to live. Come to thing of it, Trump's businesses are in other countries as well.

They are coming back?!

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@dru18 In case you haven't read, China is keeping up their end of the bargain. And I didn't say the jobs were moved...

Jobs were moved for the environment, they moved to escape environmental regulations.

How does it benefit the economy if workers who produce the products don't earn enough money to consume the products? Who is there to buy things if everyone with a job is making peanuts?

If you care about workers and the environment, you should seek to keep production of the products you use in jurisdictions you influence.

@Maze Jobs were moved for the environment, they moved to escape environmental regulations. How does it benefit the...

Nonsense. They were moved because companies could figure out that labor was much cheaper. People are paid about 10 dollars a day, which obliviously goes farther in their country, than it would ours. That, and avoiding the dreaded 35%, which none of them pay anyway.

It all boils down to the mighty buck.

And what do you have against regulations? You want to drink contaminated water, while breathing filthy air?

Newsflash: There is no way any of us would even get close to being able to afford those products if they were made in this country.

And you can thank people like Trump and your local Walmart, for that one.

@dru18 Nonsense. They were moved because companies could figure out that labor was much cheaper. People are paid about 10...

"Newsflash: There is no way any of us would even get close to being able to afford those products if they were made in this country."

That's absurd. How did people afford domestically produced products in the past? And where will Americans get the money to purchase products in the future if there is no wealth being created in the US?

Do you know how wealth is created?

Real wealth is created by taking something of lesser value and transforming it into something of greater value. Take iron ore and coal and make steel, make the steel into buildings, ships, cars etc. America used to do that on a vast scale, so it was wealthy. Because that's real wealth creation, money is just a medium of exchange, you can't eat it, you can't drive it and you can't build with it. If America stops creating real wealth, it will fall into poverty.

@Maze "Newsflash: There is no way any of us would even get close to being able to afford those products if they were made...

Job outsourcing helps U.S. companies be more competitive in the global marketplace. It allows them to sell to foreign markets with overseas branches. They keep labor costs low by hiring in emerging markets with lower standards of living. That lowers prices on the goods they ship back to the United States.

Would Americans be willing to accept the lower wages being paid? If not, the cost is going to be put on the consumer.

@dru18 Job outsourcing helps U.S. companies be more competitive in the global marketplace. It allows them to sell to...

Outsourcing started around 1997, were Americans unable to afford the things they wanted prior to that?

@Maze Outsourcing started around 1997, were Americans unable to afford the things they wanted prior to that?

Once again, you are FAILING to understand that we NOW live in competitive global market. It will never return back to the good old days.

And hey, I don't like it either. In fact, I think it stinks!

I think there should be grave consequences for companies that ship jobs overseas. But first, Trump needs to explain why his own stuff is manufactured overseas.

@dru18 Once again, you are FAILING to understand that we NOW live in competitive global market. It will never return back...

I can explain that, Trump was just a player in the market, not a policymaker. The same regulatory policies that drove American manufacturing overseas affected his business too. The key thing to understand is he didn't like it any more than you or me, and now that he's President, he's doing his utmost to fix it despite heavy opposition. I think that's commendable.

Every place on earth has had an economy for centuries, it's only in recent decades that the elite have sought to remove all barriers to trade. Surely you don't think they're doing it for your benefit, do you? It's multinational corporations working for their own benefit, reaping fabulous profits by removing regulations that protect workers and the environment.

A free market is only free if it's a level playing field, that's why governments have traditionally erected barriers to prevent exploitative trade practices.

@Maze I can explain that, Trump was just a player in the market, not a policymaker. The same regulatory policies that...

And he is still not a policymaker! He has no idea how to govern. Doing his upmost to fix it?! How?! He hasn't done anything yet! No jobs bill...nothing!

And Maze, how could he NOT like it? Him,or any other CEO for that matter. They are not paying American salaries or benefits. Seems like a 'win win'.

No, I have never harbored the delusion that they are doing it for my benefit. Big corporations are only interested in one thing....profit. And Trump is no different.

@dru18 And he is still not a policymaker! He has no idea how to govern. Doing his upmost to fix it?! How?! He hasn't done...

Trump's businesses are mostly in the American service sector. He does some retail, but his big businesses are hotels. Now, if you own American luxury hotels with your name on them, do you want a rich population or is it okay if the public is relatively poor? Obviously, even if his motivation was totally selfish, and I don't think it is, it's in his own best interests to have a prosperous American public, and a public that loves Trump.

When you come right down to it, that's the opposite of what the left wants. If you want to sell socialism to the public, is it easier to sell it to a rich public or a poor public? Obviously it's much easier to sell socialism to the poor, so no matter what they say, socialists always create more poor, because that's the surest way to increase their support.

Crucially though, the left can never allow themselves to be seen to be deliberately creating poverty. They drive the economy down the toilet, but they do it under the pretense of carbon taxes, social justice, and other overtly altruistic measures.

So as I see it, Trump fundamentally wants 2 things, 1, he wants to make the public more prosperous, 2 he wants the public to like him. That's what is in his best interests from a purely selfish perspective.

@Maze Trump's businesses are mostly in the American service sector. He does some retail, but his big businesses are...

Whoa, do not equate Liberalism with Communism. We do not want the same pay structure for all.

And yes, we are always going to have the least fortunate in this world, which hopefully, will convince us to take the high moral ground.

Trump has hotels all over, which is most of his problems when it comes to 'conflicts of interest'. And by not revealing his financial contracts in Russia, makes him seem even more crooked.

Yes, his motivations are completely self serving. If you had read anything on his past, you would see that is how he operates.

He has stiffed small businesses, declared bankruptcy six times, while leaving others holding the bag. And the only reason he is trying to tinker with the tax code, is to help out himself and his rich cronies.

He's not going to bring back factory jobs. He has shown nothing but contempt for the Senate Democrats, so good luck to him trying to get an Infrastructure bill passed.

@dru18 Whoa, do not equate Liberalism with Communism. We do not want the same pay structure for all. And yes, we are...

Socialism isn't about everyone being paid the same, it's about the public being dependent on the government. In other words, it's about power. Equality is just something they use to sell the idea.

@Maze Socialism isn't about everyone being paid the same, it's about the public being dependent on the government. In...

And, once again, SOME people need the government's help!

I am sure you wouldn't want to give up your SS, right?
How about Medicare? How about 'Pell Grants"? What about government programs that help our veterans get homes, medical treatment, and educations?

@Maze It's dependence, don't you see?

Not even close.

My father served four years in the Marines, and was able to graduated college, and buy his first home, because of G.I. bills.

@Maze Do you not comprehend that HE EARNED IT?

You made the reply: "It's dependency......", after I gave our government assistant veteran's programs as an example.

And do you not comprehend, had it been not for a president (Democrat) drafting that bill, he may never have been granted that help?

Just EXACTLY what programs are you complaining about?

@dru18 You made the reply: "It's dependency......", after I gave our government assistant veteran's programs as an...

What programs like that really do is sweeten the deal to encourage people to join the military. So even in that case, the government's generosity is not based purely on altruism.

@Maze What programs like that really do is sweeten the deal to encourage people to join the military. So even in that...

Oh for Pete' sake, he joined the military at age seventeen, because we were at war. He didn't stop to think, "oh swell, what a sweet deal this is."

@dru18 Oh for Pete' sake, he joined the military at age seventeen, because we were at war. He didn't stop to think, "oh...

It wasn't done to motivate him, it was done to motivate the next generation of seventeen year olds to sign up. I assume he signed up for WW2? That was an easy sell as far as wars go. The later wars weren't such an easy sell, so they sweetened the deal for veterans, essentially using existing veterans as a sales tool to motivate new recruits.

@Maze It wasn't done to motivate him, it was done to motivate the next generation of seventeen year olds to sign up. I...

I didn't say which war, but your argument holds no water, unless of course, FDR could see in the future of all the wars that were to come.

@dru18 I didn't say which war, but your argument holds no water, unless of course, FDR could see in the future of all the...

Regardless of the government's motives, it was a pension that he earned for risking his neck for Uncle Sam. Receiving an earned pension is not socialism.

@Maze The two are quite similar in some ways. Both came on the scene as outsiders, and said a lot of things that appealed...

So you like Trump. But what if Obama behaved like Trump?

That was actually going to be my post but I changed it at the last second.

@Sukiesnow So you like Trump. But what if Obama behaved like Trump? That was actually going to be my post but I changed it at...

I liked both Obama and Trump while they were running for office. Obama lost his lustre pretty fast once he got in though, as he routinely did the opposite of what he'd promised. I still like Trump because he seems to be doing his best to follow through on what he promised.

Here's a question for you, if someone genuinely good became President, would the establishment love them or hate them?

Ron Paul seemed like a genuinely good person, did they love him? Oh right, on rare occasions when they weren't able to ignore him, they undermined his credibility.

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@Maze I liked both Obama and Trump while they were running for office. Obama lost his lustre pretty fast once he got in...

RP was more than a good person, he didn't need that bs, he didn't have to be there, he went to prove a point and audit the FED. It took him 30 years in that lion's den to pull it off, but he did it and he left with his soul intact.

For that they called him a kook, a racist, a domestic terrorist, they put he and his family on a watch-list...

Sorry though Maze, Obama and Trump don't come near warranting that comparison. Trump was one of Paul's most ardent haters.
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@ForkNdaRoad RP was more than a good person, he didn't need that bs, he didn't have to be there, he went to prove a point and...

Trump said he likes Ron Paul and agrees with much of what he says, but he didn't think Paul had a chance of getting elected. Here's a clip from 2011:

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@Maze Trump said he likes Ron Paul and agrees with much of what he says, but he didn't think Paul had a chance of getting...

Yeah, it wasn't just about that. Trump also said he liked Hillary Clinton. He has belittled and and insulted the Pauls at every opportunity because his ego controls his brain. He even went so far as to say he would enter the race if Paul did win the nomination in an effort to stop him. He was a central part of the effort to shut Paul out. Sorry, but trying to come back now and paint him as being like Paul or liking Paul is a complete revision of recent history. It is clear now that he did intend to run and after being booed over his RP insults at CPAC in 2012, I suppose he finally realized it was stupid to pick a fight with a voting base that large, but he fools no one with his "I like Ron Paul" nonsense, he's always opposed RP's core principles.
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Once again, he's oblivious to the fact that he is the very thing he accuses everyone else of.

@ForkNdaRoad Yeah, it wasn't just about that. Trump also said he liked Hillary Clinton. He has belittled and and insulted the...

When Trump said he likes Paul and thinks he's a good guy, he also said he doesn't agree with everything Paul advocates. In that clip, Trump was hitting Paul for not showing up at his debate, but he hit him on policy, not personality, and he correctly predicted that Paul wouldn't win.

@Maze When Trump said he likes Paul and thinks he's a good guy, he also said he doesn't agree with everything Paul...

I don't think calling someone a joke is about policy, that's about as personal as it gets... The Pauls would and have destroyed Trump in a policy debate. lol

Paul didn't run in the general election, he had plurality in the primary until the GOP started moving the goalposts. Don't even get me started on the electioneering they were responsible for: Changing voting / caucus locations at the last minute, forcing Paul supporters out of their elected positions, intimidating them at voting locations, sometimes refusing them entry. The list is endless...

Trump incorrectly predicted that Romney would beat Obama. He was as wrong about that as he was about Paul and Paul's policy positions, the majority of which I highly doubt Trump even comprehends. Course, Trump doesn't seem to agree with many of Trump's own policy positions on Syria, China etc.
http://www.foxnews.com/transcri...eat-obama.html

@Sukiesnow Huh...well, they shot Lincoln...didn't they?

Yes they did, they also killed Kennedy and tried to kill Jackson, the other Presidents who tried to take back control of money creation from the banking powers. But that's a side issue.

There's no comparison. President Obama was presidential, knew what he was doing. Was dissed from day one, because of his race, his birth place (which was just idiotic brought on by Trump, who eventually had to admit that he was a U.S. citizen), saved us from a deep recession. Got BinLaden, and to this day he has a very high approval rating. There has never been a scandal about him, married to one woman, no hints of infidelity and is a good husband and father. Very intelligent and very articulate. I give him a strong A+.

Trump is a buffoon, who is still in campaign mode, patting himself on the back for winning, but hates it that Hillary won the popular vote. Calls people names that go against him, how presidential is that. Tweets dumb stuff all the time. Trump knows nothing about what it takes to be a president that's why his approval rating is the lowest of any president coming into office. Trump is in bed with the Russians, that should give every good Americans pause for concern. Trump's ambition is to destroy everything Obama has accomplished only because he can't stand it that Obama is well liked by most people.

Trump has been married 3 times, has been accused by many women of sexual assaults, talks dirty about women, and has even cheated on his present wife. Hasn't done one good thing since entering office, but of course, he tells his base that he has. Promised not to do anything against Medicare, Medicaid, and now he's cutting Medicaid big time. What a liar. And now with all the scandals going on, I doubt he will last one year in office. Trump is making America the laughing stock of the world. I give him a D-.

So...I guess something is going on... Whatever

What world do you live in?

Seonags avatar Seonag Disagree +1Reply

To me they're just two guys with the similar MOs. The both immediately went back on their promises once in office.

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