An explanation for my post? Any one of us could easily not exist because of a woman's right to choose to murder us.
I find (perhaps not the case with this post) but the anti-abortionists use the word pro-abortion on purpose, to mislead people about the real moral aspects of pro-choice. Deviants.
especially during medical and rape conditions. The medical reason should be enough to be pro-choice.
The thick Catholic anti's here in Ireland would rather see a mother die, leaving her husband and 4 kids alone in the world than abort her imperfect disaster of a creation inside her womb.
because, shame we can't kill life, and they wash their hands clean on the death of the mother. It was not us, we were not even there. Lets have some more meat night at dinner.......
Abortions are banned here. A woman died not too long ago because they refused to abort.
This is a private matter, jerry. Much too personal to generalize.
If i didnt exist, you wouldnt know to miss me.
And i rub you the wrong way, as me.
Shit.....you told me you would be pleased if i died. And i am a person.
Women dont choose to abort on a whim, for birth control or without personal damage.
It isnt your concern.
That wasnt intended to be dismissive.
I'm sorry. Sincerely. I love you and everyone else. If you die I'll be very sad. Sometimes my emotions get the best of my big mouth.
They are anonymous. That is always annoying. Although, their logic is flawed. If someone I know now was killed before I met them, I wouldn't know them to miss them either. Abortion is murder.
I remember you from sodahead. You called yourself something else.
It is my concern, I could have been aborted right?
I was adopted. Fortunately, my birth mother CHOSE to have me and arranged for the adoption BEFORE I was born.
Life is such a beautiful and precious thing and nothing pisses me off more than hearing about a woman who had an abortion because she couldn't keep her legs closed and didn't want a baby.
The only time I believe abortion is ok is when there is no chance of survival for the mother or child. A friend of mine had to have one because her baby was badly deformed and would not live if she went full term. It was very heartbreaking for her. My oldest daughter can't wait to start a family and is highly upset with a former friend because she just had an abortion because she didn't want to be pregnant and be fat or mess with a child.
My four babies are all miracles because due to an accident that was my own fault, I was told I would never have kids. I had a better chance of winning the lotto. When I learned in 1999 that I was pregnant I couldn't believe it. Sadly I did have a miscarriage between my first and second daughter which to this day still hurts. So Jerry I am glad your mother didn't abort you because you are truly a wonderful and unique person and I enjoy reading and listening to the stuff you share.
Being a parent to a child is the most amazing and wonderful thing in the world in my opinion.
I know there are some that are heartbroken and I have known people that admitted it didn't bother them at all and to me that is heartbreaking.
Yes that can be complicated because there is another innocent life caught in the situation. If I had have become pregnant after mine I know without a doubt I would have kept the baby because despite the situation it shouldn't have to lose its life too.
I have a friend that kept her baby after rape. He is now 18 and she doesn't regret her choice. He doesn't know they story just knows he was killed in a car accident which he was about six months after the baby was born.
Sounds like you raised a very intelligent son there.
I don't know how anyone could take the life of an unborn child just cause they don't want to be a mama
Each fetus is an individual person. Your soul doesn't exist?
I remember the time, when my soul entered this human soul matrix. My earliest memory, from my mother's womb. I'm pretty certain I was already a lot more of a baby than a fetus at that stage, so basically fetuses aren't persons in my opinion. Not before the spark of intelligence and the divine soul arrive. The legal limits in most civilized countries seem quite reasonable.
Yeah, I'm going to have to go against you on this one.
Anyway, you'd be fine with my mother's decision to abort me I guess. I don't get it. It makes me really sad to be truthful.
Well, it's not personal. If I had to choose, I'd let you live and have your mother abort me with a bazooka.
Nah, you need to live too bro.
I hope so. I just finalized my move and it was a difficult one, thanks to my mother and siblings. Now, the dust has settled and we are all alive.
I was aborted. It just didn't take. I'm too stubborn.
Good job. I'm glad.
I would be cool with that, especially if aborting you will save her life.
(There are a few aspects to pro-choice, the above is but one)
Yeah, I'm not referring to health reasons or rape. Certainly a mother whose life is in danger and rape victims should have the option. This post is about those who use it as a form of birth control because a child is "inconvenient." Perhaps I should have specified a little better.
No worry, I think we mostly agree then.
I'm with you on this Jerry. Further, the notion that abortion should be the choice of the mother is ridiculous. We're going to rely on the judgement of the person that didn't use adequate judgement in the first place to pronounce a death sentence for her own child? That, is insanity!
I can hear the pro-choicers crying out - "What about rape victims, or if pregnancy threatens mothers life?" OK, we can talk about those situations. I agree they are more difficult, but still, not a slam dunk for infanticide. It's a relatively small number of cases among the 3,000 - 4,000 babies put to death EVERY DAY in America.
You got your head on straight on this important topic Jerry!
Well if the baby is inconvenient perhaps the answer is to make it more convenient. Like lowering the cost of medical bills for the parents and giving poor people tax breaks to help them raise their kids. I mean the average cost of child birth is 8,802 dollars in the usa, and many expectant people lose their jobs or have no maternity leave. If you look at other countries with policies to financially help new parents they have much lower abortion rates.
Well obviously we need better programs.
We spend the most money per person of any nation on healthcare but see some of the poorest results. I think we need to regulate medical cost through single payer system.
What an idiot
All those "free" stuff that you take about, middle class people are allowed to have access too. But they don't take. Why? Because not that much is given out to begin with.
"Lowering medical costs" I'll go along with that. First, we need to stop the frivolous lawsuits against the profession. Insurance for medical practitioners is so high that they have to pass the cost onto us. The insurance companies rape America. The entire problem with the healthcare system? Insurance Companies having too much power. Government controlled healthcare is even worse. Regulating against unwarranted medical lawsuits and unfair pharmaceutical companies would help big time.
And, if circumstances don't fit your current needs, don't have children! Keep it in your pants!
Poor people DO get tax breaks for just that reason.
Really? People lose their jobs for having children? Let's get that on the news. It should go away fast.
Uh, oh - I hope we haven't stumbled on something that's gonna cause a rift between us Will. Look at other countries? No thank you. Other countries would do well to be more like us.
I don't see why it could cause I rift between us im pro life. I think we just have different opinions on how to solve the problem of abortion. I think banning abortions won't stop abortions I think we need to look at the root of the problem and fix the cause of people seeking abortions. I agree lots abortions could be avoided by people being more responsible however I think it is an unrealistic solution to just tell people to be more responsible abstanace only programs seem to be very ineffective in practice. I think that we should look for financial solutions as the data ive seen suggests that is the main reason people have abortions. One study I read showed 68% of people having abortions said they wanted to keep the baby but couldn't afford it. America is great but greatness doesn't stand idle it changes and improves constantly I see no reason why we can't learn from the success of other countries.
I and most pro-lifers I know have never expressed an opinion to ban abortion. [I'm sure some have] I think those are words put in our mouths by pro-choice.
Yeah, normally I would be right there with you on getting to the root Will. But there are 3,000 - 4,000 babies put to death every day - every day!
Please, don't preach about what's effective either - killing off thousands of babies every day is unacceptable, I don't care how effective it might be.
I never mentioned abstinence either. How about using all those free condoms we have to provide?
I'm totally in agreement with making adoption easier and less expensive. And killing your baby because you can't afford it, is about the most lame ass excuse I can think of.
So what do you think is the most effective way to lower or stop abortion rates obviously something has to change.
There's a lot that can be done.
Changing peoples attitude about it is perhaps the single most effective thing to do. When I was a kid divorce and abortion were discussed behind closed doors, it brought shame to individuals and families. These days either of those events are reasons for a party!
Do you think changing attitudes is easier than changing motivations?
I've never been to an abortion party before what are they like?
I've never been to one either.
The sex drive as I recall is one of the strongest experiential things known. It's right up there with a desire to live, eat, drink. I don't think we'll have much luck telling teenagers not to phuck.
So if we can't stop them from fucking why not focus on making them want to be parents. I think people often are scared of being parents and think its soul sucking, maybe we ought to make being a parent more appealing.
So, do you have some social engineering scheme for that in mind?
Will, if people are afraid of having children or don't want children - then they shouldn't have them.
Yes make having kids a overwhelmingly good thing instead of a burden through legislation.
Well maybe the answer is better birth control then.
Again, if you fell that children are a burden, you should not be a parent - through common sense - not legislation.
Legislate good parenting? Will - that's hilarious!
Thats an entirely different problem. If abortions stopped there is no guarantee that there will be good parents just that children will be born. However I think child protective services is a form of legislating good parenting
Oh, I never meant to say government hasn't tried to legislate parenting. I just meant like most things, government doesn't do a very good job at it.
I'm glad I was adopted instead of aborted.
you wouldn't be here to debate hypotheticals about a medical procedure that saves women's lives and would be a sacrament if it applied to men, to borrow from flo kennedy
It's a bare truth isn't it.
"Any one of us could easily not exist because of a woman's right to choose to murder us."
If it was in fact murder would there not be many more women in prison?
Not when murder is legal and the perpetrators don't even realise they're killing their own children.
Hmmm, I can't say that I agree with your sentiment. In saying that I am not saying you are wrong, just that I do not agree with your perception of it. Or rather, that my perception of it is really rather quite different. A polarising topic at best Jerry :)
A very serious topic. Killing babies isn't something that people will just sit back on.
A woman's right to choose should not extend past the moment of fetal brain development.
Abortion is just God's way of keeping the left from breeding.
If you're pregnant and someone assaults you because they want you to have a miscarriage, and you lose the pregnancy, was that simply an assault on you, or did they murder your child?
Murder of the worst kind in my book.
So the baby must have legal rights as a person, or killing him wouldn't be murder. But if he has rights as a person, how can it be legal to kill him in a medical clinic? It seems inconsistent, dead is dead from the baby's perspective, does he have rights or doesn't he?
A baby is a person. It should have rights within the Constitution.
An interesting set of circumstance. When we are talking of murder here, are we using any sort of basis, like law for example? When, in law, does this become murder? I don't know the answer to that.
In law, state by state is different. In NY you can kill your baby into late pregnancy. My personal cutoff point is 6 weeks, then it becomes murder. The brain is developed at that point.
Ok, just for the exercise of understanding, can you tell me when you think the baby is at a point where you consider it to be murder during a pregnancy? I ask because there are a few blanket statements without any defined points of reference to progress the conversation.
6 weeks after conception. The reason is brain development.
Cool, thank you for your response. I shall do some research into the subject matter and respond when I have more information. My knowledge of the subject is at present somewhat lacking.
I guess that what I am saying is that I have a notion in my head that is not supported by anything other than my opinion. So I think it only fair to expand that base and intend on using your answer as a starting point.
You see, I have always held the belief that a woman should be able to choose, and, at this point in time what you would be called 'Pro Choice'. We shall see if that may change :)
Well, I would agree with that. You can choose for yourself until you involve someone else. where there is a brain there is feeling. I just cut it off right there.
That's right up to the third trimester. That's some fucked up shit right there.
He should add the Right too, otherwise we wouldn't have an orange for a president
In your opinion maybe, but that's not how Reality rolls.
"These six things does the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked imaginations, feet that are swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaks lies, and he that sows discord among brethren."
But most people on the left have never personally killed a fetus.
Try again! :)
“How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked?
"Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked."
Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)
We're playing the game of quoting from the Bible right?
Shame that abomination Lincoln fought slavery!
"Speak out on behalf of the voiceless, and for the rights of all who are vulnerable."
She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
(Oholibah is Jerusalem)
So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.
“Therefore, Oholibah, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will stir up your lovers against you, those you turned away from in disgust, and I will bring them against you from every side— Ezekiel 23:21-22
They will take away your sons and daughters, and those of you who are left will be consumed by fire. They will also strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry. I will put a stop to the lewdness and prostitution you began in Egypt. You will not look on these things with longing or remember Egypt anymore.
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18
Kinda hypocritical, this book you're using. Amirite?
A wise king scattereth the wicked, and bringeth the wheel over them.
I can't imagine any God condoning the enslavement of any of his kids.
Giving instruction to Christians who are enslaved is not quite the same as advocating slavery, is it?
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." -Jesus (Matthew 7:12)
According to pro abortion we aren't human. If we aren't human in the win we aren't human out of the womb
Again, you're saying things that are not true, in abortion the aim is to be aborted before you could know it, yes it's bad that you take away a human life because of the mistakes of a couple of idiots but for me this is the lesser evil, I would be against the abortion if there is a 100% chance the child will be taken away and will be cared for with all its needs.
I'm not a liberal, the things you're saying have nothing to do with my reasoning, I don't even agree with it. In my country we dont play a game of liberals and republicans. And " you women " I'm a man, read the damn tag
That's your reality, it's your opinion, yours doesn't matter more over mine and mine doesn't matter more than yours that's it. And for the record we're all a clump of cells and that's a fact.
I understand your point and yes, murdering an unborn is bad. Perhaps we should focus on preventing pregnancy as a whole.
Good, it's better for them to know, this way if they get pregnant we can be sure that they're morons. Lots of people are embarrassed to go buy condoms, do you think that has an effect too?
If thats how you wrute then you really dont know kids these days, no one really cares about those subjexts, for most of them its just another class. Most kids by 12 know anything sex ed would teach anyways
Well way to support murder and be anti responsibility
Are you capable of thought? Can you comprehend what I'm writing to you? Can you act like a normal human being? Do you have any dignity or respect? Why don't you make a conversation by explaining your points, listening to mine and giving your argument how and why?
If you won't act like a decent human being neither will I.
All you do is just see someone not agreeing with you and you cast a fucking thunderstorm of crap on top of their heads because they don't think the same, you miserable brainless fuckhead. I'm done with you.
I like you Jerry, you're a cool dude even if we disagree on this. You call it murder, I call it prevention of hard times for both the mother, father (or lack of one) and child, especially if my mother and father I mean stupid, brainless, irresponsible, idiotic, moronic, brain transplant candidate teenagers who didn't get a condom because it doesn't feel as good. People like to have sex and little innocent children shouldn't suffer for the mistakes of idiots. If it was required to meet certain standards and have license to become parents based on the ability to be a responsible, loving and certainly never neglectful or abusive person then I'd be all for the ban.
It's murder and a way to AVOID responsibility!!!!!!!!
I think most people who are pro abortions don't like abortions to happen I think they are more concerned that if they are illegal that many women could be hurt by black market doctors using improper methods because they are not regulated. I think ideally everyone would like it if no one ever wanted or needed an abortion again. I think a lot of people are focused on the fight to end or maintain abortion laws I personally think we should focus on regulations that promote and support parents having children. Perhaps tax breaks for new parents or safety net plans for the poor could really help reduce abortions.
Sure Mothers choice. Was this real or an illusion you like to hold?
I changed my mind. I truly wish my mother had aborted me. Too much suffering in this miserable worl.
Don't want children, then don't have sex. Pretty simple guys