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My, oh my - How things have changed in 21 years!

Just 21 years ago, Bill Clinton was president. Back then it was the Chinese blamed for trying to influence American politics. Bill Clinton introduced welfare reform and was not cited for trying to starve children or kill old people.

The NBA's longstanding rule for team conduct states that players, coaches, and trainers are to stand and line up in a dignified posture along the sidelines or on the foul line during the playing of the national anthem.

Citing its rule, former NBA commissioner David Stern suspended former LSU and star Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (Chris Jackson) in 1996 for sitting down during the national anthem when he played for the Denver Nuggets. Abdul-Rauf suspension was lifted after one day when he agreed to stand during the anthem but pray silently in his hands.

Different circumstances, different sport, but same controversy. But the progressive left hadn't gotten around to influencing public thought on things like marriage, sexual identity or patriotism. The masses are a bunch of puppets.

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Influencing public thought?
If it is the left raising awareness, those that listen and agree are puppets?
If the right influences public thought, the people who listen and agree are what?

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@2663216

He's one that if Trump stood in Times Square and killed someone, he would think it was OK. Sad.

@StarzAbove He's one that if Trump stood in Times Square and killed someone, he would think it was OK. Sad.

Really Starz? You think this crap is about Trump? You believe that kneeling during the anthem is disrespect for Trump?

For as long as I have lived, everyone stood and placed their hand over their heart for the national anthem. I did that in grade school for Pete's sake.

It's respect for the flag, the country, our history, the men and women that fought and dies for the country.

Your comment is demeaning to yourself Starz. no smilie

@Budwick Really Starz? You think this crap is about Trump? You believe that kneeling during the anthem is disrespect for...

And your comment is demeaning to me. It is exactly about Trump and you know it. He didn't say much when the first football player kneed and now all of a sudden to divert the conversation from his other failures, like the health care bill, his loss in Alabama, the Russian investigation, and whatever the loser chooses to divert, he does nothing all week except diss the NFL.

Those players weren't disrespecting the flag or the anthem, and everyone knows it, even Trump. They were protesting the injustice that is being done in ourcountry.

You seem to forget we have freedom in this country. I stand when the anthem is played, I put my hand on my as well. My emotions run down my face during a parade when the flag goes by....but That's my choice, and everyone should have their choice as well, whether you agree or not.

@StarzAbove And your comment is demeaning to me. It is exactly about Trump and you know it. He didn't say much when the...

You are wrong Starz. The players may be protesting how they are so oppressed, but doing by kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful to the country.

The whole point of this post is to point out how feelings toward something like this have changed. You are driving that point home very well - thank you.

@Budwick You are wrong Starz. The players may be protesting how they are so oppressed, but doing by kneeling during the...

I will wager, well everything, that when you sit down to watch a game in your living room, when the anthem is played, you remain seated on your easy chair.

@Budwick I won't be watching. PS - The players are actually there Carla.

So. The anthem is being played. You were part of the process by tuning in. If you didnt stand, you are as unpatriotic as you claim the protesters are.

@Carla So. The anthem is being played. You were part of the process by tuning in. If you didnt stand, you are as...

Standing in front of the television is not the issue Carla. We're in the real world here.

PS - U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem

(b) 1C
all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;

You thought that one out good!

@Carla Influencing public thought? If it is the left raising awareness, those that listen and agree are puppets? If the...

Raising awareness? Of what? That football players disrespect America on a wholesale basis?

In answer to your question - when the right raises awareness it called racism, bigotry, xenophobia, deplorable.

@Budwick I rest my case.

I hope it sleeps well..

@Carla I hope it sleeps well..

Knowing America's military is on the job protecting you and me helps me sleep like a baby.

@Budwick Army

Ahhh....
Well, freedom is what you and i served to protect.
That is exactly what these people are exercising.

@Carla Ahhh.... Well, freedom is what you and i served to protect. That is exactly what these people are exercising.

That's your big 'gotcha'?
Of course they have freedoms. I think they are exercising their freedoms in a totally incorrect place and manner. That's what this is all about!

Protest their alleged oppression on their own time. Not during the national anthem which dishonors the very place that gives them their freedom.

@Budwick That's your big 'gotcha'? Of course they have freedoms. I think they are exercising their freedoms in a totally...

I dont play the gotcha game, bud.
That's your game.
They are using the biggest platform accessible to them. I see taking a knee as a sign of respect, while at the same time silently speaking.

@Carla I dont play the gotcha game, bud. That's your game. They are using the biggest platform accessible to them. I see...

Then what was the branch of service crap all about?

I see taking a knee as disrespect of country.

@Budwick Then what was the branch of service crap all about? I see taking a knee as disrespect of country.

I was just curious.
Seems you would be far more open to using freedom of expression if you served to protect such freedoms.

@Carla I was just curious. Seems you would be far more open to using freedom of expression if you served to protect such...

Carla, I've mentioned a number of times that I have no problem with the athletes freedoms, yours or mine.

What I've said repeatedly is that they have chosen the wrong place and time to express those freedoms.

I know you are smart woman - I know you understand what that means. There's a few others here that believe those words mean that I support Trump even if he killed someone in cold blood. I don't think you believe anything so ... foolish. But saying that I respect their freedom does not mean that I do NOT respect their freedom. Certainly you can see the difference.

@Budwick Carla, I've mentioned a number of times that I have no problem with the athletes freedoms, yours or mine. What...

People who have something important to say, but are generally ignored, find ways to be heard.
Guess what they are doing is generating conversation.
It is too bad that so many are confusing the message.

@Carla People who have something important to say, but are generally ignored, find ways to be heard. Guess what they are...

NFL athletes are generally ignored? What planet is that?

Other athletes use their fame in more constructive ways. Go out in the community or schools to deliver inspirational messages, encourage kids to stay in school, etc. They are not ignored and when they do stuff like this in fact it usually gets a lot of press.

It's too bad they chose to deliver such a confusing message - and even though it is now known to set so many people off - continue to do it!

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@2663286

Thank you Gates, intelligent comments. And I agree with everything you've said. If the OP here is so against the NFL and what they are doing, then he should NOT watch football ever again. You think?

I was just asked if I was on my knees while I whined..... since when is giving an honest opinion whining. And that coming from a mod who should know better. Maybe he should go back to Mod School and learn how to treat people appropriately, instead of picking fights.

@StarzAbove Thank you Gates, intelligent comments. And I agree with everything you've said. If the OP here is so against the...

I won't be watching football.

You were whining about something off topic when I called you on it.

I'm a mod - BFD - A member just like you. No better, no worse.

I believe it has been you picking fights my dear.

@2663286

I mean no disrespect Synyster, but America is a patriotic country and we’re different from the rest of the world in that respect. It's part of that whole American exceptionalism thing. It's real. I think Canada is great too! I'm sure you do too - but where you could consider canning a 100 year old tradition of playing the anthem at ball games ain't gonna happen. At least, not without a fight.

The song is about a battle in the War of 1812. The first documented time that it was played at an American sporting event came at a baseball game in 1862, during the Civil War. The tradition of playing it at sports events got a dramatic boost at the 1918 World Series, during World War I. And the tradition of playing it before games was popularized during World War II.

Francis Scott Key wrote the song in 1814 and it became the nation’s de facto anthem not long after. Congress made it official in 1931. World War I vets had been lobbying for it for years.

I suggestion to ditch the anthem in favor of some made up oppression story doesn't solve a problem, it merely sweeps it under a rug somewhere.

@Budwick I mean no disrespect Synyster, but America is a patriotic country and we’re different from the rest of the world...

Made up oppression story? which one, the one about how you right wingers are oppressed by having to face the reality of the baked in inequity of our society?

@VicZinc Made up oppression story? which one, the one about how you right wingers are oppressed by having to face the...

No, not those bogus inequities. I'm talking about the bogus inequities the NFL kneelers say their disrespect for America is all about.

It's all that BLM crap, the lies that the Trayvon Martin protests were built on, 'hands up don't shoot' baloney.

I know you don't believe in truth, so this might be hard to understand - but when they build a movement on lies - it won't stand.

I know police officers aren't perfect. I know there are examples of brutal police behavior. And, since that's all media plays - I understand how people that do believe in truth could believe it's common place.
But it's not.

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@2663443

I wasn't aware there was already a rule.

I knew we were basically on the same page. You're an honorable guy.

I don't know how this will shake out. I don't think it's going to end well for football. I think it hurts the country. It think it hurts what ever cause these guys think they are bringing awareness to. There's no upside. Well, except that everyone knows Kapernick's name now.

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@2663472

Trump could have chosen better words. But the fact is no matter what he does or would have done, the media would find a way to twist it and say it was too late, too soon, too strong, not strong enough. They hate him.

@2663443

You had some good thoughts there that I agreed with and one paragraph I wanted to comment on.
"Should they be disrespectful by kneeling down,standing or sitting during the national anthem .. absolutely NOT.
Are they assholes...YES, but that's not why they get paid millions for."
Football is not a game. It's a business. It's entertainment and nothing more. What's the most important thing in business? Protect and promote the "Brand". You see the same thing with other brands, like Disney, and others. Owners have rules to protect the brand and their financial interests. Employees, do not have the right to tarnish that brand. (By any behavior)

I agree that our memories are short and selective.

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@2663840

Outstanding!

Dissing the NFL when people are starving in Puerto Rico and Trump does nothing about it until 8 days later and only then because the press as been reporting it. He should have waived the Jones Act a week ago and all of this would have been prevented, but instead he has been tweeting about football players not honoring the flag, the anthem and the military. But yet he chooses to diss John McCain for being a prisoner of war, and that he was no hero. And Trump had 5 deferments to get out of serving the flag, the anthem and the military..... he has no room ever to talk about the NFL, ever.

@StarzAbove Dissing the NFL when people are starving in Puerto Rico and Trump does nothing about it until 8 days later and only...

Trump is able to multi-task. Puerto Rico would still be devastated regardless of what comments Trump made. Nice attempt to deflect MY topic.

@Budwick Trump is able to multi-task. Puerto Rico would still be devastated regardless of what comments Trump made. Nice...

All Trump knows how to do is tweet and diss people he doesn't like. Multi-task, the man doesn't know the meaning of the word.

I'm not talking about what Trump has said, I'm talking about his inactive responses to Puerto Ricans in desperate need to survive. He should have acted long ago. He took care of Houston and Florida, but not Puerto Rico. Someone should explain to him that they are Americans too.

@StarzAbove All Trump knows how to do is tweet and diss people he doesn't like. Multi-task, the man doesn't know the meaning...

And this post is about how the left supports disrespect of the country.

Again - you are proving my point - and for some reason you hare having trouble sticking to the point.

You might consider posting your complaint on your own post!

@Budwick And this post is about how the left supports disrespect of the country. Again - you are proving my point - and for...

I know the truth has always hurt you, I was hoping you had grown up somewhat, but I see you will never change. I thought this was an opinion side, and I've just been told by a mod to get off his post. Whatever happened to freedom of speech.

@StarzAbove I know the truth has always hurt you, I was hoping you had grown up somewhat, but I see you will never change. I...

I hope you are on your knees while you whine.

I've asked you to stay on point. You are welcome here. I've NEVER blocked you!

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@2663189

The left has taught you well!

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@2663215

I often stand alone Logan.
I always stand for America.

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@2663232

Thanks Quiz!

And thank you God!

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@2663223

Me too!

I was expressing my dissatisfaction with the attitude of so many that patriotism is important. That there's a time and place for spoiled NFL players to express their faux oppression.

It's unfortunate that so many of the left have allowed themselves to be coerced into compliance.

@Budwick Me too! I was expressing my dissatisfaction with the attitude of so many that patriotism is important. That...

And it's unfortunate that so many of the right have allowed themselves to believe a lying, corrupt president, sad and shameful.

@Budwick Honoring the national anthem, the country is not corrupt or shameful.

No one is dishonoring our country, except Trump. And you know it.

@StarzAbove No one is dishonoring our country, except Trump. And you know it.

Every athlete kneeling during the anthem dishonors the country.

@Budwick Every athlete kneeling during the anthem dishonors the country.

I kneel when I pray, am I dishonoring God?

I find it strange that you never defend Trump....but I understand why. Everything I've said about him is true. He's the only one dishonoring our country everytimg he opens is mouth.

End of conversation, I won't waste any more of my time talking to someone who has a closed mind. Enjoy your day.

@StarzAbove I kneel when I pray, am I dishonoring God? I find it strange that you never defend Trump....but I understand...

Honoring God and America are two different things done in different ways.

You really sound foolish trying to make it sound that players are actually adding extra honor by kneeling.

Trump wasn't the topic - despite your continual attempts to derail the conversation - I refused to take the bait. Deal with it.

Nice to see the effects of Trumps hand up your ass manifest itself so neatly into one post Budders

@TheCensoredBrit Nice to see the effects of Trumps hand up your ass manifest itself so neatly into one post Budders

This all began with Kapernick - during the Obama regime.
I mentioned here then how disgusting I thought it was. Without any influence from Trump.

You mentioned in another post that the concept of patriotism escapes you. Don't embarrass yourself further. This is something you simply will never understand. And, that's OK - I couldn't possibly think any less of you because of it.

@Budwick This all began with Kapernick - during the Obama regime. I mentioned here then how disgusting I thought it was...

I'm not embarrassed Budders. On the other hand, you might want to think about your inability to explain patriotism to someone and bury your head in shame.

I wonder if Trump does ventriloquism acts with his puppets.

@TheCensoredBrit I'm not embarrassed Budders. On the other hand, you might want to think about your inability to explain patriotism...

Of course you're not embarrassed. Even people like yourself can get used to be being that way.

Your inability to understand far outweighs my ability to explain.

@Budwick Of course you're not embarrassed. Even people like yourself can get used to be being that way. Your inability to...

How can you make that claim when you haven't bothered to explain anything Budders? Its almost like you're ashamed and your ducking out.

And its kind of hard to be anything other than not embarrassed when faced with someone who can't explain his own views without having to look to his higher-ups for guidance.

Kind of reminds me how some birds regurgitate their meals for their young to eat.

@TheCensoredBrit How can you make that claim when you haven't bothered to explain anything Budders? Its almost like you're ashamed...

Like I told you the first time around - part of patriotism is within American culture. So, get yourself born and raised in America. Then maybe you'll understand.

You can't learn or embrace and cherish American culture otherwise.

And, let's be honest - you don't give a shit about my explanation. Your real interest is in feeble attempts to try to shame me for my beliefs. Ain't gonna happen Sparky. Far better than you have tried - and failed.

@Budwick Like I told you the first time around - part of patriotism is within American culture. So, get yourself born and...

So why claim I'm embarrassed for not understanding when you won't even give me a chance to try?

And if you weren't ashamed of your beliefs, you'd be happy enough to explain them. Keep on telling yourself you aren't ashamed of them. Your actions speak louder than your words ever could.

@TheCensoredBrit So why claim I'm embarrassed for not understanding when you won't even give me a chance to try? And if you weren't...

Poor, POOR Brit!
Big, bad Budwick has made him a victim!
Let's all have a moment of hysterical tears .. shed for poor Brit.
Image in content

OK,I'm good!

@Budwick Poor, POOR Brit! Big, bad Budwick has made him a victim! Let's all have a moment of hysterical tears .. shed for...

Poor poor Budders. Doesn't even have the braincells to explain his own views without being drip fed from othes

Lets all have a moment of hysterical laughter at his own delusional projections.

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xD

Change and death are constants guaranteed in life.

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