Who has heard of gentrifying?

There is a big uproar in Denver over something called “gentrifying”. That’s essentially where people start moving into a “bad” urban part of a city and upgrading it, making it attractive to the middle class. I would think those already living there would welcome such a move. It brings in new businesses, cleans up the area and makes it a better, safer place to live.
I guess I was wrong. Minorities are protesting these moves claiming it is taking away their “cultural” environments. In other words, it is changing ghettos into areas where almost anyone might want to live. Can anyone explain to me why such a move is “bad”? We constantly hear about how terrible minorities have it, living in such areas, and when people actually go in to change it, they get hostile and protest any changes.

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@2697498

Then whats the answer Linn? Kind of a situation where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

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@2697501

But where should this affordable housing be? There has been a long term "battle" over this. Years ago, minorities essentially took over downtown areas and the results ended up with the areas turning into slums and crime ridden areas. The value of the properties plummeted. Whites moved out completely. Decades later, whites and affluent minorities went back into these areas and pumped a lot of money into them to bring back the beauty of some of the architecture and history. Prices rose and the neighborhoods became a nice place to live again. Do we demand that these neighborhoods remain slums or let supply and demand take it's course? If I owned a home in a bad area that suddenly became a good area, I wouldn't complain. If an area became some place I couldn't afford, I'd move. That's just the way it is. Denver has a housing shortage and home prices have doubled. Nobody can expect taxpayers subsidizing people living in areas that they can't afford anymore, no matter what color they are.

@JustJimColo Then whats the answer Linn? Kind of a situation where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

"Damned if you do and damned if you don't" is the perfect way to describe this situation. If you leave the dwellers of these ghettos to their own devices, they complain that they're being oppressed and forced to live in the shithole that they themselves created.... then when you try to improve the area, they complain about gentrification.
It is extremely frustrating when you try to help them and give them what they want, and all they do is complain. It's plainly obvious that the only thing some people are interested in is complaining and playing the victim.
this is the case in a lot of situations actually. Nothing you ever do is right, no matter how hard you try to help them.
it's time for more people to realize that nothing you can do will ever appease these people, so fuck em.

gentrifying...
renovate and improve (especially a house or district) so that it conforms to middle-class taste.
make (someone or their way of life) more refined or polite.

Theoretically, the best result is a blending of old and new. Part of the reason developers like these locations is the sense of existing neighborhood and charm. Taking condemned and dilapidated buildings and giving an area life again...bringing in new people. Yes, it raises property values. Yes, it encroaches on long term residents. And yes, gentrifying is often seen as a racial issue. But, often this new invigoration of an area brings a "cleansing" of sorts by bringing down crime rates. I did watch a show recently where developers and real estate agents worked with the residents to maintain and develop the neighborhood taking their wishes into consideration. Seemed the best answer to this growing trend.

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@2697661

Well said, thibault.

@2697661

All great points. The part I "like" about it is the restoration of much of the architecture in many of those homes and buildings that are on the verge of bad deterioration. There will always be "displacement" of some people. There was displacement of entire neighborhoods of people when these areas turned into ghettos. Some of the most expensive housing/property in any major city is the downtown area. To me, it makes more sense to me to create "affordable" housing away from the highest property value districts. I know that if I was only qualified for a $15 an hour job, it would make more sense to live in an areas that had those $15 an hour jobs. Why perpetuate people living in concentrated ghetto areas. Some of those opposed to this are people who claim it will take away their ethnic culture of a particular area. Wanting to keep an area a ghetto because you like the culture of crime and fear doesn't make much sense to me.

I never knew what it was until South Park explained it to me. They took the crappy part of town (Kenny's house) and turned into a hotspot with fancy caffes and a whole food's store while keeping the run down house.

What is gentrifying?

@ezhil What is gentrifying?

Definition of gentrify - renovate and improve (a house or district) so that it conforms to middle-class taste

It's viewed as a racial issue, that's why people are in such an uproar about it. In their minds, it's nothing but the "white devil" invading their neighbourhood and kicking out the "POC" residents by fixing the place up and making it safer and more fit for living.
One valid issue though, is that it makes the cost of living in that neighbourhood skyrocket... and where are the original residents going to move when they can no longer afford to live there?
Besides, when a ghetto is gentrified, the residents will spread out to surrounding neighbourhoods and eventually transform those into the ghettos they came from.

Gentrification also causes property taxes to skyrocket. Fix up the neighborhood but don't kick people out of their homes. Grandfather them into the process.
Will this happen in Puerto Rico?

@ozzyboy Gentrification also causes property taxes to skyrocket. Fix up the neighborhood but don't kick people out of their...

Don't know of that would work Oz. If I bought a building and put a hundred K into renovating it, I'm going to raise the rent to get back my investment. Unlike "government" housing, private housing exists to make a profit. Nobody is going to rent a house for $600 when they can rent it for $1600. I know I wouldn't.

@JustJimColo Don't know of that would work Oz. If I bought a building and put a hundred K into renovating it, I'm going to...

There would be government money to not kick out the old timers but the new renters would pay the market price. There are a ton of deductions for landlords when paying their taxes on their income.
Their is also a lot of money when rehabbing these old neighborhoods. Profit would not necessarily be a problem.

@ozzyboy There would be government money to not kick out the old timers but the new renters would pay the market price...

I'm sure there are ways. Some of the criminal element, they would like to get out of the neighborhoods. We'd all like that element out of our neighborhoods, no matter where we live.

Yes ... and I'm not sure why it's generally talked about as a "bad" thing. I mean, yes, it does raise the cost of living in previously poor neighborhoods. But it does so because it results in lower crime rates, more services (shops, transportation, etc), cleaner neighborhoods, and higher property values.

@Walt_OReagun Yes ... and I'm not sure why it's generally talked about as a "bad" thing. I mean, yes, it does raise the cost of...

As to pricing people out of affordable rentals ... there are a couple solutions that have been attempted in some cities/states.

1 - raise the state minimum wage.
2 - place a "cap" on the annual amount landlords can increase rent by.

@Walt_OReagun As to pricing people out of affordable rentals ... there are a couple solutions that have been attempted in some...

Walt, Do we really want the government dictating how much a person can charge for rent on a property they own? Should the government put a cap on how much you can sell your home for? Home prices here in Colorado have doubled in recent years. If I bought an apartment complex for double what it cost the previous owner, wouldn't it make sense for me to double the rent? It's all about supply and demand and the value of the property. I think the government is already too involved in our lives.

@JustJimColo Walt, Do we really want the government dictating how much a person can charge for rent on a property they own?...

Having government tell landlords they can't raise rents on existing tenants over 10%/year ... or having those tenants lose housing, meaning the government has to pay for sheltering them? (not to mention the increase in crime and health care that comes with an increase in homelessness)

(Note the government isn't saying what you can charge for rent on NEW tenants.)

Seems to me: The first option results in less government presence in our lives.

@Walt_OReagun Having government tell landlords they can't raise rents on existing tenants over 10%/year ... or having those...

Would you move to a new place if you could stay in the same place and pay half the rent others are paying for the same area? Probably not. There wouldn't be any "new" tenants. Especially after I sunk 100K into upgrading and restoring the building.
The first option IS the ultimate government presences in our lives. It's dictating what I must pay an employee. If I have a small profit margin, why should I have to pay someone with minimum skills $15 an hour? At best, I wouldn't be hiring those with minimal skills because I can get more qualified people at the higher wage. That, or I'll just replace those positions with a machine.

@JustJimColo Would you move to a new place if you could stay in the same place and pay half the rent others are paying for the...

The problem is ... landlords aren't putting any money into improvements. They are just raising rents. So why should the tenants pay more, when they aren't getting any improvements or more services?

Note that the cap allows rents to rise more than property taxes are allowed to increase, in the areas I'm familiar with. The law also makes an exception IF there are improvements that increase the value of a property.

@Walt_OReagun The problem is ... landlords aren't putting any money into improvements. They are just raising rents. So why...

I am a landlord and I didn't raise the rents on anyone who paid faithfully. Then the taxes went up 50%. Rents are raised because of those very taxes. It would take 6 months just to pay the taxes. I just want the property to pay for itself and a little profit. Most of the money goes backing the property. Be careful of painting everyone with the same brush.

@ozzyboy I am a landlord and I didn't raise the rents on anyone who paid faithfully. Then the taxes went up 50%. Rents are...

I was not "painting everyone with the same brush". I specified that I was talking about areas I was familiar with.

In those cities, taxes can't go up more than 3% - 5% per year, without a vote of the citizens. Rent, on the other hand, can go up 10%/year.

@Walt_OReagun I was not "painting everyone with the same brush". I specified that I was talking about areas I was familiar...

uh huh....In our area they just did a property reassessment, up for most of us. They had to drop the millage because they weren't supposed to get more revenue due to the reassessment. They dropped it and advertised the drop and right under the first announcement in the paper was another legal notice that they were raising it up again.
They all are very adept at the shell game perpetrated on renters and landlords alike.
The gentrification is a catch 22 for everyone but the ones who lose the most are the ones who can't afford the upgrades.

@Walt_OReagun The problem is ... landlords aren't putting any money into improvements. They are just raising rents. So why...

This post is about gentrifying. That's where an entire neighborhood is upgraded, often at cost of tens of millions.

I spent some time with my grandchildren this past weekend. The youngest between three and four. No matter what, he was contrary.
"Eat your turkey!"
"No."
"Put your toys away."
"No."
"Time for bed."
"I don't want to."

Striking similarities to ghetto dwellers if you ask me.
But, the grandchild will grow older and wiser.

Just another way poor people and POC are screwed over. Then again, it's getting to the point no one will be able to live anywhere, gentrified or not. Thanks, capitalism. 👌

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