This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
That's something coming from you.
Mocking me is the best defense you have for your phony anti-American rant?
Don't be a fool. Freedom is not free
thanks. from that perspective it makes sense to me.
It really depends on what freedom is for someone. Society and law restrict freedom to maintain order and stop chaos, in case freedom for one is chaos for another.
Not being imprisoned is no less free than being imprisoned? It just doesn't makes sense. Many on welfare believe that everything is free. This is where your "Nothing is free" comment comes true because somebody is paying for it.
What's it cost to keep someone in prison? Who pays for it? What's it cost to keep someone out? Who pays for that?
The roads you use, the fire protection you expect. The police you respect - all free? It cost nothing to have you here with me.
Great! I appreciate that.
Two different definitions for the word "free."
Nothing is free.
Tommy is, I am:
My will is free.
That's what I'm talking about!
Aye Aye Captain.
So those lives were worth nothing. The uniforms and ammo? Free. The salaries of the lieutenants and corporals, and major, and generals - no cost to society? The rebuilding of the war ravaged land, absolutely free!
Good news, I'll spread the word.
Once again, you're talking two different meanings of the the word here. There's "free: no cost." Then there's" free: Living as one chooses." I didn't even think of "free: Not imprisoned." If you were more clear on which meaning of the word you're talking about there would be far less confusion going on in this post.
What fun would that be?
So that was the intention? As long as you have fun.
That's his go to move when cornered in an indefensible position - "Just kidding." "No such thing as truth."
Hi Bud! Haven't talked to you in a while.
I haven't been as active. Good to see you!
Hope all is well.
Sorry Jerry - gotta leave for an appointment. We'll talk soon.
Nothing is free. You said it, not me.
"Free" and "Freedom" are not the same words Vic.
Actually, the cost of freedom such as we have in our beloved country is actually quite high. Many have paid the highest price so that you might enjoy your freedom. I think it's sad that you take it all for granted.
I am confused.
I said freedom is not free, you disagreed and then said "freedom is not free"
Make up your mind Budwick.
I agree. You are confused.
You suggest that since nothing is free, we have no freedom.
That is incorrect.
Look, here's a way out of this Vic. Just say that you mis-spoke, made a mistake - apologize to America and move on.
I never said anything about freedom. I said free. As in no cost. It is you who jumped to conclusions.
Agreed. Freedom is not free.
Now I am confused. What definition of "free" are you using?
But it wasn't free. It cost us dearly.
People who claim that people in this country are no more free than people in gulags, prisons or work camps, have obviously never spent time in ANY of them, and have no clue what they are talking about. Sounds like a temper tantrum thrown by a spoiled seven year old because it didn't get everything in the store for Christmas.
Bud was right when he said, "This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read."
Free is a measure of cost. Liberty is another debate. If you don't think it cost you dearly to live in this country than you are no accountant.
Vic, must I remind you that it was YOU that conflated 'Free' and 'Freedom'. Not the readers here. YOU have tried twisting shit around again.
Everyone here knows that freedom isn't free. Many pay a high price for our freedoms. Others, try to diminish our freedoms. Which do you want to be Vic?
He can't answer the question because he has never paid anything for "freedom". He equates freedom, to "free stuff".
Sometimes his anti-American rants really piss me off.
This is one of those times.
He is just another "entitled racist", who thinks everyone owes him something.
So it seems.
He would probably like to claim he isn't a racist, but then we both saw his post where he admitted to it and even claimed to be one, saying, "Yes, I'm a racist. So what?" Shortly afterwards, he used his moderator "privilege" to delete the entire thread of posts.
You are talking to the wrong guy.
I deleted that post because Budwick insisted.
I will be happy to restore it if he asks me to.
The facts remain.
There is only one human race. As my other post today points out, I put my human race above all other races of animals. If that makes me racist then I am racist. My race is the only one I worry about. My race is the human race.
That's what I said on the deleted post and I stand by those words.
I agree that the only race you worry about is "your" race, but it has nothing to do with the overall "human" race. You are anti America and anti white.
I am not anti American. What does 'anti white' mean?
ROFL.... Really Vic? You are actually trying to bait me? You are probably the most anti American bigot on this site. You know it and I know it.
No idea what you are talking about.
You know Jim, the mods on here do a fairly thankless task, giving up their time to try and keep the place relatively clean of many different things.
Now they are human, and, as such are subject to human perception and decision making. They are not always right, and, it is always easy to point the finger at them when things don't go your way.
But slagging of a mod because of your opinion of what may have happened seems a very selfish thing to do.
I am not suggesting that you shouldn't make your displeasure known, because your opinion is a valid as the next blokes, but, using a mods position to attack them personally is a little below the belt in my view.
Maybe you could give thought to that?
Hmmmmm Sounds like you are jumping into a discussion and a "history" you know nothing about. I guess since you happen to be a moderator, you view it, and those who hold the position as something everyone else should hold as sacred. You're not. I moderate hundreds of people in the real world every day. Try it sometime.
Now, since you decided to call me out in public, are you really wanting to jump into a "debate", taking sides (As you have) between me and someone else with both feet? That isn't moderating. That's jumping in and taking sides to protect "your own". I've had discussions with most moderators here privately over the years and haven't had any problem with any of them privately. (Except one of course, and that is between he and I.) As much as we may not like each other, or disagree, we haven't had the need to call "mommy" to take sides. We're big boys and can take care of ourselves. Has my language been out of line? Have I made threats?
If you think my comments are below the belt, compared to other comments on this site, you may be a little too thin skinned for the game you want to play. Some people play rough.
Maybe you could give some thought to that?
Tell me Vic. What has it cost YOU?
I pay taxes just like everyone else. American's Liberty cost plenty Jim.
Taxes don't pay for freedom. People do.
Taxes pay the people. Taxes pay for their food, uniforms, transportation etc.
There is a lot more to it than that Vic. More than you can possibly comprehend.
Why? It's beyond your comprehension. Someone like you believes freedom is bought by tax dollars. (As you said above)
Freedom is not free. If you think you can have freedom at no cost to you then I guess there are things beyond your comprehension to.
There's no free lunch Jim.
You're the one always looking for the free lunch Vic. You also want a free lunch, dinner, internet, education, healthcare, cell phones, housing and expendable cash for those those to lazy to earn it.
Oh... I've paid for freedom.... as have others on here. You think it's something you buy. I almost pity you. Again, it's beyond your ability or desire to understand.
Jim, you do realize that our government spends the about $12,000 per person per year. That provides services that we all use, like police and education and defense. You are not free, you cost just as much as I do.
That's not freedom. That's infrastructure.
I am not talking about freedom. I am talking about the cost of you. The cost of your citizenship. You are not free, no one is. Nothing is free, someone has to pay for it.
The fact that nothing is free is something I've been trying to tell YOU, for years. You are the one advocating free college, free healthcare, etc etc. I'm sick of paying for all the free shit. I paid over 40K in taxes last year. When my kids went to college, did they get a free ride? Nope. "I" made too much for them to qualify for "free".
So we agree. Alright then.
Just look at all of these different definitions and uses of the word. Easy for people to think you're talking about something you aren't. :
Definition of free
1 : not costing or charging anything a free school a free ticket
2 a : having the legal and political rights of a citizen setting the slave free
b : enjoying civil and political liberty free citizens
c : enjoying political independence or freedom from outside domination This is a free country.
d : enjoying personal freedom : not subject to the control or domination of another You are free to do whatever you want.
3 a : not determined by anything beyond its own nature or being : choosing or capable of choosing for itself a player free to negotiate a contract with any team
b : determined by the choice of the actor or performer free actions
c : made, done, or given voluntarily or spontaneously gave his free consent
4 a : relieved from or lacking something and especially something unpleasant or burdensome free from pain a speech free of political rhetoric —often used in combination error-free
b : not bound, confined, or detained by force The prisoner is now free.
5 a : having no trade restrictions duty-free imports
b : not subject to government regulation free competition
c of foreign exchange : not subject to restriction or official control
6 a : having no obligations (as to work) or commitments I'll be free this evening
b : not taken up with commitments or obligations a free evening
7 : having a scope not restricted by qualification a free variable
8 a : not obstructed, restricted, or impeded free to leave
b : not being used or occupied waved with his free hand
c : not hampered or restricted in its normal operation
9 a : not fastened the free end of the rope
b : not confined to a particular position or place
in twelve-tone music, no note is wholly free for it must hold its place in the series —J. L. Stewart
c : capable of moving or turning in any direction a free particle
d : performed without apparatus free tumbling
e : done with artificial aids (such as pitons) used only for protection against falling and not for support a free climb
10 a : not parsimonious free spending
b : outspoken is free in his criticism
c : availing oneself of something without stint she's very free with her money
d : frank, open
e : overly familiar or forward in action or attitude
a young man who had been much too free with the ladies of the town —Harvey Graham
f : licentious inexcusably free talk before the ladies
11 a (1) : not united with, attached to, combined with, or mixed with something else : separate free ores a free surface of a bodily part (2) : freestanding a free column
b : chemically uncombined free oxygen free acids
c : not permanently attached but able to move about a free electron in a metal
d : capable of being used alone as a meaningful linguistic form the word hats is a free form — compare 5bound 7
12 a : not literal or exact free translation
b : not restricted by or conforming to conventional forms free skating
13 : favorable —used of a wind blowing from a direction more than six points from dead ahead
14 : not allowing slavery was admitted to the Union as a free state
15 : open to all comers
that most pleasurable of Anglo-Saxon pastimes, a free fight —Winston Churchill
— freeness play \ˈfrē-nəs\ noun
— for free
: without charge
That's what makes this post so controversial.
Or, maybe the controversy you so desire came from you improperly conflating the words 'Free' and 'Freedom'.
I didn't conflate them. You seem to have. I never mentioned freedom, you did.
Tell someone in a prison, gulag or work camp that you'll trade your life with theirs..
I'm sure they'll pass on your gesture, knowing there's no real difference.
I didn't don't deny that those folks are less comfortable, only that people living outside of prisons are not free. They cost society just as much as those incarcerated, maybe more.
Until I'm slapping a rusty soup can on bars, to get a serving of fish heads and muddy water for dinner.
I'll continue to feel....free as a bird.
Dan, you do realize that our government spends the about $12,000 per person per year. That provides services that we all use, like police and education and defense. You are not free. You cost just as much as I do. The average cost of prison in the US is $31,000 per person. In other countries it is much lower.
You can feel as free as you want, but you still cost society $12,000 per capita. You are not free, cheap, but not free.
I've never had the slightest desire to be a scum sucking leech and not pull my own weight.
So yea, you're right about that..
In that sense, I'm not free and I wouldn't want it any other way.
Like I said before, when I'm rattling a cup on bars or just got fitted for a new orange jumpsuit..
Then I'll consider myself to not be free..
The point you're trying to make is actually nonsense..
The bottom line is, either you're a productive citizen...
or a bum, complaining about what's getting handed to you..
Bums are free.. if that's the type of freedom you're looking for..
Really. No cost? You are just here and no one had to pay a single penny for that pleasure.
Good to know.
Well....we have a bit more freedom than that.
Today...im driving to town.
On free roads, no cost to tax payers - they just feel from the sky! Yeehaw~!
That definition of free.
There isnt anything tangible that come free. There is always a cost to someone.
Roads that take you to all those gulags, prisons and work camps - right?
What are you on about now?
I've cleverly combined your lame headline about gulags, prisons and work camps with your lame comment about free roads falling from the sky. And Viola! I've made a joke, using your own words - and you apparently don't even understand!
Yeah, a bit.
Hey, maybe you saw some of the folks while at the market!
Cuz, you know, it's not really that much better here than it is there.
It's better here. But it's not free, we pay a high price for our lives of luxury.
A high price, eh? What have you paid for your freedom Vic?
Here's a few folks that helped pay for your freedom.
Do you still feel so oppressed?
I pay my taxes just like everyone else. I see you are still here to type your opinions.
Still not sure why you are arguing with me when we are saying the same thing.
No Vic, we're not.
You are bashing America
I am praising America.
Do you see the difference?
I am not bashing America, I am simply stating that it is not free. We have to pay to live here.
As Jim pointed out, some of us pay for our freedoms while 40% just get things for free. We have freedom of choices that we make in our everyday lives. We may not be completely free but tell me where else you could live and make your own decisions over how you will live?
I am not saying this is not a great place to live. I am saying it is not free to live here.
I know you are not saying this is a great place to live. You're saying it's a horrible place to live.
I sure wish folks that dislike America so much would just leave already!
It is a lot freer for some than others.
We all pay a price.
Nope, therein is the problem.
I pay taxes, I assume you do. I personally would not be willing to pay the price of loss of dignity, having to live in sub-par housing and trying to survive on corner store groceries that is the price of not having a job.
Unless you are talking about Trump who apparently hasing paid taxes in years.
Dignity and pride are mostly gone from today's society. Living off others is the name of the game and it is the one we pay for.
Where is your proof that Trump doesn't pay taxes.
I have no proof. So I guess you were not referring to Trump. I am glad, it would have been a bad example.
Even those that live off others are not free. You and I pay for them. Living in America is not free, for anyone, not for working people, not for deadbeats, not for prisoners, not for immigrants. Nothing is free.
It all costs a pretty penny. It cost $3.8 Trillion last I looked. That's a lot of money. Those who think people living in America are free are mistaken, it cost we taxpayers a lot for people to live here.
It's free to those who don't pay for their health care, food, housing, cars and cash from the taxpayers. You really need to accept reality.
Free? Who pays for it? It's not free. they are costing me a lot.
Saying it is free is supporting their belief that it is free. It is not. We pay for it!
It costs us but it is free to them.
You are one of those who doesn't pay taxes? I did not know that about you JD. I am frankly surprised. Well to each his own. I am not free, I pay my fair share for my freedom.
So you are not free, you've paid a fortune.
See, if you were free you would have paid nothing.
Who's talking about freedom? I am talking about the cost of living in a country. It is not free to live there.
Where did you get 'freedom' from this post?
Even further more and more philosophic, We are not free to look like what we want and be perceived as what we want Existence is slavery
That's the dumbest thing I ever heard.Go live there and see how free you are.
Wait - what? One agrees, three disagree - and that's 50 - 50? SER - the claculator is broke again!
Yep, sometimes them trolls vote both ways.
I can't agree with that, you can't compare a free person with potential to a gulag prisoner. In the democratic free world depending on your luck and abilities you can either die hungry or get filthy rich. Even if free life is a hole we all work to dig ourselves out from, all we want is a comfy life.
I don't really know much about prisons except what I learned while being incarcerated and from TV. But it seems that even there, some people work the system and have a lot more comfort and privileges than those who buck the system to assert their "free will".
We are bound by laws that literally take away the freedom of being alive. We have to pay to live and aren't allowed to live off of the grid.
You have to pay for the comforts you want to enjoy. Running water, electricity, sewer, etc. You could live in the boonies if you wanted and not use or pay for those services. Although, there might not be many people wanting to visit your restaurant without any of those services way out there.
Not to mention the cost of diligence, and the sorrow for lives lost in defense.
Someone's paying, nothing is free.
Well, sewers must be maintained.
Fortunately, we don't lose many plumbers in the process.
I'm delighted that you are familiar with the phrase - "Freedom isn't free". It's of course an American idiom, used widely in the United States to express gratitude to the military for defending personal freedoms.
Of course your point is confusing when your tone makes it sound like the right to bear arms or speak freely is a bad thing. But, keep working at it. I'll bet you get the hang of it sooner or later.
Odd interpretation of my words, but anything to disagree with "evil Vic".
Someone is fined if they try to even collect rain water for consumption.
I've heard that too - in California.
I agree - THAT is out of hand, total BS.
Just one of many reasons I would never chose to live there.
With the Dakota Access Pipeline shoving forward as it did, it has already been proven that no place is sacred, not even actual sacred places protected by treaty..
OK, I get it. You have an endless list of complaints not necessarily related to the topic. I'm certain your list is too long to maintain my interest.
Not everyone wishes to communicate. Have a great day. I did in fact try to keep my thoughts concise.
Just to bring you up to speed Vrendowl, when one take a poke at someone, one would expect a retort.
I'm really sorry my response to your poke took you by surprise.
I'm very sorry I did not meet your expectations with providing a retort.
That's OK. I don't know you very well and have very low expectations. You're doing fine.