Is Revolution Brewing in the US?

According to a recent study revolution historically takes place when the level of inequality reaches a tipping point. The scale, used for decades, that rates inequality is the GINI coefficient with total equality being a 0 and total inequality a score of 1. The highest score in the past belongs to ancient Patrician Rome with a score of .59. So where does the US stand? Are we getting close to that.59? The GINI score in the US today is .81, one of the highest in the world. I'd say revolution is inevitable. What do you think?

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In the US today 3 people own as much as the bottom 50% with 1/10 of 1% of the population owning more than the bottom 90%.

Nay, it takes balls for a revolution to happen. Behold the Zonkey, 'cause he is your true leader and as a non-American the only real choice for the upcoming dictatorship.

I dont see it happening. This nation is far too divided to successfully come together for such a thing.

There might be one day if the present administration has its way.

Yes ... and has been for a while. The question is, what form will it take? Will the People "wake up" and realize their government is purposefully keeping them divided and distracted? Or will the government "reap what it has sown", and get a bloody race and/or class war?

I agree that tax cuts can stimulate demand when given to the middle class but when 80% of the cuts go to the 1% the cost in cutting social programs and expanding the wealth gap is not worth it.

I think they should call capital gains what they used to be called: unearned income. It's far more accurate.
Why should money from actual work be taxed higher than money from contributing nothing of any real value to society?

Was it tax cuts that stimulated the economy under Reagan or was it increased military spending and low interest rates?
There was little to no productivity growth even though economic growth was up so the rich got much richer while most Americans saw little economic change.
Granted he came in on the end of a recession but the spurt in productivity was years later.

Kennedy was a totally different world.

Cutting taxes when taxes are high can increase revenue with a larger base but when taxes are already low it doesn't work especially in global economy
Those capital gains and excessive compensation will go to buying back their own stock to inflate the price or into a hedge fund.

Do you realize that Gates, Buffet and Bessos now own as much as half the country and 1/10th of 1% own more than the bottom 90%? You don't see a problem there with the distribution of wealth?
Is anything resembling democracy even possible?
I don't see how.

Elections are are already just an illusion of choice.
You're free to choose one of these people we've chosen for you.

If you really want the economy to recover it's really simple. Instead of giving money to people who don't need it and expanding an already bloated military budget put it into infrastructure with local contractors. I would gives odds the economy will be booming in two years.
Money only works when it moves. That's why it uses aquatic terminology. Currency, cash flow, liquid assets yadda yadda

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@2702512

But, chance....
You are behind the way this administration is being run. Happy for the wealthy to become wealthier. The new tax plan and removing ecological restrictions is gonna trickle down and enrich us all, right?

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@2702538

Most of the half who don't pay taxes are retired although I have more in my pocket than B of A and GE combined paid in taxes the last 5 years.

Rich people with more money don't buy any more stuff than they usually do. They put it in an account. A recent meeting of major corporate heads were asked if tax cuts would be invested into business growth. Guess how many hands went up.

The idea that giving more money to those who don't need it creates jobs is bullshit. Trickle down is a lie. It didn't work for Reagan. It didn't work for Bush and it won't do anything this time except expand the wealth gap.
Hiring new people is the last resort of any business and only happens when demand is not being met and there are no other options.

The reason you don't hear about Iran and Russia sending aid is not because it doesn't happen. It's because it doesn't get reported.

We don't give our wealth away. Foreign aid is less than 1%.

@urwutuis Most of the half who don't pay taxes are retired although I have more in my pocket than B of A and GE combined paid...

Here is a math lesson for you. Foreign aid is 35 billion a year. There are an estimated 138 million in the US who pay taxes. to make up that insignificant 35 Billion, the 138 million have to pay an average of $2,500 to generate that number.

"The reason you don't hear about Iran and Russia sending aid is not because it doesn't happen. It's because it doesn't get reported." Then how do you know they "give"? Give us some numbers.

@urwutuis Most of the half who don't pay taxes are retired although I have more in my pocket than B of A and GE combined paid...

What's a wealth gap?
Some people make more than others?
So what?

The fact is that GE’s tax returns are not public. How do you claim to know what they pay in taxes? Cuz Liz Warren said so? Ha!

No one will giving taxpayers money. They will be able to keep more of their own money than before.

By the way, trickle down DID work during the Regan years. But, you know how democrats spend like drunken sailors? Well, they spent like drunken sailors.

@Budwick What's a wealth gap? Some people make more than others? So what? The fact is that GE’s tax returns are not...

Publicly traded companies file quarterly reports and EDGAR is the SEC database.

Trickle down didn't work for Reagan. Tripling the debt and raising taxes 11 times did. Giving companies more money doesn't create jobs. Demand is what creates jobs and hiring is the last resort to increase production which should be obvious.

@urwutuis Publicly traded companies file quarterly reports and EDGAR is the SEC database. Trickle down didn't work for...

You are priceless Urwut.
You've addressed nothing.

Again, no one wants to GIVE money to anyone - except democrats wanting to hand out government cheese to keep the masses from uprising. Oh, and phones, and food, and housing, and education, and healthcare - NOT a strong military though. Gotta draw the line there!

So, companies would KEEP money that would otherwise be paid into taxes. Making the business environment better for business. After all, we're the highest taxed country on the planet for business.

By your theory, business would have never left USA to save tax money! I guess they went to China cuz the demand for IPhones is tremendous for the millions living in poverty there.

It's true that business won't hire people out of the goodness of their hearts. There needs to be a customer base that has income adequate to afford what business has to offer. [Unless your a health insurance company and the government forces people to buy stuff from you.]

So, Urwut - you seem to have a twisted view on economics. Have you ever owned or managed a business? Or, are you more of a "Fries with that?" kind of guy?

@Budwick You are priceless Urwut. You've addressed nothing. Again, no one wants to GIVE money to anyone - except democrats...

You crack me up.
Like republicans aren't about to give away not just the cheese but the entire farm to themselves and their donors.

It's even funnier that you think anyone even comes close in military might. Maybe 1000 bases on foreign soil isn't enough to make you feel safe. Why not just give it all to the military and totally fuck the public they're supposed to protect?

Businesses didn't leave to save on taxes they left for cheap labor and lack of oversight.

If anyone has a twisted view on economics it's those who think trickle down works.

FYI: I've been a business owner since 1974 and currently have 17 employees.

@urwutuis You crack me up. Like republicans aren't about to give away not just the cheese but the entire farm to themselves...

Congrats on your business Urwut!
You must be doing something RIGHT to be in business that long.

So, your business may be one of the benefactors of lower taxes. Suddenly, well maybe not suddenly, but your business will have less tax expense. Maybe enough to open a new shop, expand services, stuff like that. Of course you would need to hire more people. OMG - more jobs! These new hires will have expendable income, want to buy stuff, and of course they'll be paying taxes too!

It happens all across America when taxes are reduced. It happened when JFK did it. Same when Reagan did it.

@Budwick Congrats on your business Urwut! You must be doing something RIGHT to be in business that long. So, your business...

I agree that tax cuts can stimulate demand when given to the middle class but when 80% of the cuts go to the 1% the cost in cutting social programs and expanding the wealth gap is not worth it.

I think they should call capital gains what they used to be called: unearned income. It's far more accurate.
Why should money from actual work be taxed higher than money from contributing nothing of any real value to society?

Was it tax cuts that stimulated the economy under Reagan or was it increased military spending and low interest rates?
There was little to no productivity growth even though economic growth was up so the rich got much richer while most Americans saw little economic change.
Granted he came in on the end of a recession but the spurt in productivity was years later.

Kennedy was a totally different world.

Cutting taxes when taxes are high can increase revenue with a larger base but when taxes are already low it doesn't work especially in global economy
Those capital gains and excessive compensation will go to buying back their own stock to inflate the price or into a hedge fund and if it goes into the business at all it will be new technology not jobs.

Do you realize that Gates, Buffet and Bessos now own as much as half the country and 1/10th of 1% own more than the bottom 90%? You don't see a problem there with the distribution of wealth?
Is anything resembling democracy even possible?
I don't see how. Dynasty is more like it.

Elections are are already just an illusion of choice.
You're free to choose one of these people we've chosen for you.

If you really want the economy to recover it's really simple. Instead of giving money to people who don't need it and expanding an already bloated military budget put it into infrastructure with local contractors. I would gives odds the economy will be booming in two years.
Money only works when it moves. That's why it uses aquatic terminology. Currency, cash flow, liquid assets yadda yadda

@urwutuis I agree that tax cuts can stimulate demand when given to the middle class but when 80% of the cuts go to the 1% the...

Thank you for a well reasoned and explained retort!

It's true that the biggest benefactors of the tax cut will be those who have been contributing over 90% of the tax revenue. Still, middle class earners will be getting huge cuts in their tax bill. I was listening to a radio program yesterday - a woman was explaining how she and her husband (with one child at home) who earn $63,000 per year will experience a $4,000 decrease in their tax liability under this new plan. That's pretty significant Urwut. They won't be saving millions, but then again, they didn't pay millions either. By the way, their tax bracket will be reduced in greater percentage than Big Bucks Corp. too.

Social programs are a financial burden to tax payers - not a benefit. Putting people back to work is a social program that everyone benefits from!

Capital gains is money earned on investments. Investment is a critical part of the economy. You seem to think that investment contributes nothing to society. I strongly disagree! Investment into companies is what allows them to start up and / or expand. Again, providing opportunities for people to work, be gainfully employed, pay taxes, buy stuff, get off social programs. A significant benefit to society.

Again, no one is giving money away - except in your social programs. Companies that make stuff will PAY less. Infrastructure spending is part of Trumps agenda too. It's not rolled into the tax thing as far as I know, but infrastructure spending is planned. And, I agree it's important. But, the real growth opportunities is in the private sector.

I like your aquatic references. One if the biggest benefits I'm seeing in Trumps tenure is the administration finding ways toe melt away regulations that had so much money frozen, unable to move. And, the tide of money coming back to the USA.

@Budwick Thank you for a well reasoned and explained retort! It's true that the biggest benefactors of the tax cut will be...

The middle class cuts are not huge and when stacked against the elimination of deductions and tuition wavers as income is even less. They also expire in 10 years while corporate and cap. gains cuts are permanent.
The majority of investment is not in start-ups it's in trading and after the original stock sale the company doesn't see anything from the rise and fall in stock prices. Rent seeking "investment" produces nothing.
Financial institutions,hedge funds and banks contribute nothing of any real value.

Social programs benefit everyone including the wealthy. Greater equality reduces societal ills across the board from alcoholism and violent crime to teenage pregnancy.

That "frozen" money will stay frozen. Do you think it will spark some kind of spending spree?

@urwutuis The middle class cuts are not huge and when stacked against the elimination of deductions and tuition wavers as...

I doubt we'll come to agreement Urwut.

Yes, some deductions are eliminated - one of the goals was to make doing taxes easier. Not having to itemize I think is a big step. Doubling the standard deduction goes a long way to overcome the elimination of many deductions. Those living in high tax states like New York, California, Illinois admittedly will take it on the chin with state taxes no longer deductible. For everyone else not being raped by their state government, it's a win.

Agreed about investment benefiting startup / expanding companies. Of course, I was talking about the benefit to the investor himself, the ones with money enough to risk in the market. And, without, investment money for startups / expansion would be far more difficult to come up with.

Social programs are good to a point. When people come to depend upon them - for generations, something is wrong. Getting people back to work is a far better solution that truly does benefit everyone.

Deregulation has already thawed a bunch of money and business.

@2702538

I agree with urwutuis, completely.

In february, job creation had nothing to do with trump. We all know that. His being elected didnt magically produce 235k jobs.
And the stock market is based largely on speculation. Read what happened in 1929. Rapid expansion, based largely on speculation, is a trap.

People were on foodstamps because we were in a massive recession.
Are memories so short? No one on the right dares speak of the financial ruin this country was in when obama took over. It doesnt take only a couple of years to recover from that. But, he gets no credit for saving us from total ruin.

Importing oil...know why we do it, instead of using our own (which is more than enough)? Because refineries are set up to refine the type of oil that comes from imports. Heaven forbid the mega rich oil companies retool their operations. It might bite into one years worth of their massive profits.
I am now, and have always been, self sufficient. That is what i was taught. Make my way...pay my way.

@Carla I agree with urwutuis, completely. In february, job creation had nothing to do with trump. We all know that. His...

One point I'll agree with is a coming market correction. The market grew under Obama, not so much from growth but from government infusion of money every month. When ever they talked about cutting back - the market would take a nose dive. It was like the market was holding Obama hostage - and of course Obama had no problem negotiating with terrorists.

The market has grown steadily since Trumps election. You want to say it was because of something Obama did - OK, for a little while. I think as the year passed though, more and more was because of speculation of Trumps improving business climate. Not because of things passed by Congress - those nut wads are having trouble passing anything! But more from reduction of stifling regulations and the hope for Congress to get their asses in gear.

So, a lot of that is already priced into the market. When the tax bill passes, I think you can expect yet another spike. But come April / May, I'd look for a significant market correction. That's my two cents.
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@Budwick One point I'll agree with is a coming market correction. The market grew under Obama, not so much from growth but...

I will agree that the market, at this point is because of trump.
I agree that some regulations should have been loosened. But what he said he would do and what he is doing, is entirely different. Same with the new tax "reform". Funny how many of its provisions benefit him, while he says, out loud and proud, that it will hurt him.
Does any of that effect your views?
And the republicans keep saying that businesses are going to come back here with good paying jobs. Do you believe that too?

@Carla I will agree that the market, at this point is because of trump. I agree that some regulations should have been...

Carla, you know that it's Congress that writes the bills. And, Trump has plenty of opposition R's and D's! So, Trump isn't going to get everything he said, or exactly the way he said.

Service providers and professionals [people / businesses that are making things] are actually impacted negatively - hard - especially in high tax states - like New York. Of course Trump had to divest himself from his business interests early on - but your point is still taken. It's NOT like Congress passing a healthcare bill that forces everyone to buy something whether they want to or not and then exempt themselves!

Yes, I do believe that businesses will move back. There are stories of it happening all the time. It began as soon as Trump took office. Some say they planning the move anyway, but many many more have since January 2017. Even some light manufacturing. Heavy manufacturing I think will be more difficult. Those jobs are heavily unionized with high pay scales. Maybe they will come back with more robotics instead of people. And then, with Trump's deals to reopen trading - FAIR trading, who knows, maybe it will go faster than I expect.

@Budwick Carla, you know that it's Congress that writes the bills. And, Trump has plenty of opposition R's and D's! So...

I am not nearly as optimistic..
I will google companies that have moved back to the us.

@Carla I am not nearly as optimistic.. I will google companies that have moved back to the us.

Thanks - I Googled "business coming back to usa" and found articles from ALL sources going back to January. Thanks for considering.

I don't care, fukin bring it.
I'll fight to the death for my freedom.

I'm not feeling it - why do you ask... seriously?

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