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I for one am not at all happy that government officials can randomly stop people in public and demand to see their 'papers' with impunity. Is this America or some backwards Eastern Bloc nation? This is unacceptable and something for which thinking peoples should not stand.

Border Patrol Sweeps Florida Greyhound Bus for Illegal Immigrants; Demands CitizenshipBorder Patrol got on a Greyhound bus yesterday at 4:30pm in Fort Lauderdale and asked every passenger for their papers and to prove citizenship. Proof of cit...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAdGJzmAW4U
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VicZincs avatar Life
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Sad state of affairs. I could very easily be targeted after the weather warms. I get very brown. That seems to be the criteria.

And that's the problem, vic. The ones driving these actions are just not thinking peoples.

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +8Reply
@VicZinc jackbooted thugs:

That just doesnt seem so far fetched considering how poorly trained and trigger happy our policing sysyems are.

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +3Reply
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@2715907

Yes. But i dont find it so odd.

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +2Reply

What happens if you are not carrying anything to prove your citizenship?Is this a requirement in America? It certainly isn't here.

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@2716175

But are you legally required to carry proof of your identity at all times?You haven't actually answered that.I suspect not.

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@2715934

As usual Bozette, I think you're spot on. Shortly after 9/11 a Dutch friend and I were discussing terrorism and she asked me what I thought the U.S. should do. I told her I was actually concerned about how the U.S. might react militarily. A joke at the time was: Should we retaliate (and bomb the Middle East back into the stone age) out of blind rage, or should we do that with a measured, focused rage.

Looking back now I see I should have been more concerned about the political backlash and our liberties. You're absolutely right. Most people supported/demanded the Patriot Act. It was done in the heat of the moment, and I'll admit that I wasn't opposed to it at that time.

The problem is that these backlashes are codified and take on a life of their own. One of my biggest problems with President Obama was that he stated that we must reject the false choice between our safety and our ideals, yet did nothing. That is why I often agree with Rand Paul.

Don't worry Vic, you live in California. California LOVES illegal immigrants, it's a bonus if you're a terrorist I think.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +4Reply
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@2715790

Sanctuary cities..... How can you say they don't protect illegals. In many cases California won't even bring charges against an illegal if they would be forced to notify Federal officials.

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@2716098

It is up to the Sates to notify Federal law enforcement when they apprehend an illegal for a crime. That's the law. All it takes is for a cop to call the federal agency and let them know. Without inter agency cooperation, we'd have catch and release all day long. Should a cop turn a bank robber loose because it's a Federal crime?

@JustJimColo It is up to the Sates to notify Federal law enforcement when they apprehend an illegal for a crime. That's the...

I said I would go along with notifying the Feds. That costs nothing, and California should co-operate with the Feds regarding notification.

@2716098

Listen up Flanders - no one is asking you police to go out looking for illegals. However, in the normal course of their day to day activity, it's pretty likely that they will run into one or more of them. When they do - apprehend - that's all we're asking.

And that's also why I don't think you have a clear idea of who republicans, conservatives or Tea Partiers are. You clearly misunderstand what we're after.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +3Reply
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@2716330

Not EVERYONE is going to agree 100% on anything. So, you may want to consider upgrading your own expectations.

Your complaint about the cost of the police doing their job is priceless.

By the way, apprehension is not such a big deal if you have the guy pulled over already for speeding, tail light out, etc.

I know Obama made it popular to enforce only the laws he liked - but in the grown up world, that's not how it works.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +3Reply
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@2716364

Implementing sanctuary policies is not only reckless to the safety of residents in a community, but in many cases, also constitutes a breach of obligations to the constituents public officials swore to protect when taking office. Rather than obstruct the enforcement of federal law, law enforcement should work cooperatively with the federal government to ensure a uniform system of law that protects public safety.

Even the average illegal alien, who some claim is “otherwise law-abiding,” violates numerous other state and federal laws, including, but not limited to, those prohibiting identity theft, forgery, and driving without a license or insurance, creating real victims through their behavior. State and local law enforcement become complicit in such law-breaking when they come across an illegal alien and refuse to act.

Some states bear more of the weight than others, often due to sanctuary policies. For instance, California taxpayers spent more than $25 billion in 2014 to subsidize illegal immigration, and Texas taxpayers spent just over $12 billion. Such costs come in the form of education, health care, welfare, and law enforcement resources. Additionally, job displacement and wage depression caused by large populations of unauthorized workers inevitably add to taxpayer expenses as more citizens and legal residents require assistance from public services.

Your state officials can of course continue to ignore common sense and their obligations to serve and protect if they wish. And then they (and likely the state) will suffer a slap down for their spoiled brat behavior at the hand of the federal government.

Personally, I would like nothing more than barring travel to / from California to protect the rest of us from California.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +2Reply
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@2716436

So, it's NOT OK for police to detain and hand over illegals they come across while in the normal course of their work,

But, it's fine and dandy for schools, doctors and social workers to do so?

And, instead of deporting illegals, you want to take out your frustration on employers?

Your solution to the drug problem is brilliant. We could stop prostitution the same way! Just tell prostitutes not to do it anymore! Why hasn't anyone ever come up with these ideas before now? [That's sarcasm by the way.]

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +3Reply
@2716330

"It costs a lot of time and money for to apprehend someone. Paperwork, time away from the job to cart the person to jail, the cost of feeding them, and housing them in a cell." (The job of police is to apprehend criminals and take them to jail.)

Remember, at this point they have already been apprehended because of a crime. Are you suggesting we should not apprehend criminals? Or that we should only put Americans in jails? Since a crime has already been committed, it is now only a matter of deciding what jail they should go to. Federal or local.

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@2717178

When all other logic fails.... pull the race card.

@2715790

Nice try Flanders, but the California disregard for federal statute goes far beyond your misunderstanding. Your first sentence is completely irrelevant to the topic. Your second is willfully incomplete.

California does in deed protect illegals. They are offered complete subsistence upon entry, drivers license and voting card. Your LAW ENFORCEMENT IS NOT ALLOWED TO ASK ANY THING regarding immigration status on stops they do make. And the state has virtually advertised itself as a safe haven for illegals. And, resisted any attempt for federal agents to work there.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +2Reply
@Budwick Nice try Flanders, but the California disregard for federal statute goes far beyond your misunderstanding. Your...

The Tea Party is just too conservative for me. My politics are center left. I can work with both center left and center right people. I have found the extremes on either end only focus on what they believe and refuse to ever negotiate. In my opinion, that will be the downfall of this country, the inability to ever compromise with the other side.

@Flrdsgns The Tea Party is just too conservative for me. My politics are center left. I can work with both center left and...

Your politic leanings sound very similar to mine.

Just ten-twenty years ago I would have pictured our the politics of the U.S. citizens to be a normal bell curve, where the majority of the people where not very far left or right. Nowadays I can't imagine what the distribution might look like.. flat? in inverted bell?

If Russia has anything to do with this, we are losing badly.

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@2715803

Sounds like you have an issue with your state non representative representatives.

Giving up is one option. Fighting back is another. That's why I joined the Tea Party. We don't always win, but do so more and more often.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. If you do nothing, you've made your choice anyway which is what the elitists are counting on.

I know you're not the enemy Flanders, but you have a way to go. I wish you good luck.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +1Reply
@Carla I doubt you really....think, bud.

You actually know full well that I think just fine. I just disagree with your Socialist philosophies and are apparently not well equipped to defend them so - instead you call your opponent ignorant.

Have a lovely day Carla!

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +2Reply
@Budwick You actually know full well that I think just fine. I just disagree with your Socialist philosophies and are...

I never called you anything, bud.
On this subject, you are wrong. A voters card? Come on, man.
And to say california invites and harbors terrorists is absurd. And quite insulting. THAT'S the part of your comment i object.

@Carla I never called you anything, bud. On this subject, you are wrong. A voters card? Come on, man. And to say...

You said that you doubt that I think.

California DOES harbor terrorists. Another one was recently charged and he mocked the judge and said he wished he had killed more police. Now THAT is insulting!

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +2Reply
@Budwick You said that you doubt that I think. California DOES harbor terrorists. Another one was recently charged and he...

If he was in court, being charged, that doesnt quite look like he is being harbored.

I feel bad for you, budwick. Having such hateful and negative views on anyone unlike you. Must eat your insides.

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +1Reply
@Carla If he was in court, being charged, that doesnt quite look like he is being harbored. I feel bad for you, budwick...

I sleep well Carla, despite consistent hatred and name calling from the likes of you.

The ass hole being charged WAS allowed back into the santuary city several times and allowed live there unmolested. NOW he's being charged for the crimes he committed while here illegally.

It takes a special kind of willful ignorance to be unwilling to see the obvious.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +1Reply
@Budwick I sleep well Carla, despite consistent hatred and name calling from the likes of you. The ass hole being charged...

Bud...i dont hate you. Not even a little.
And i agree that our borders shouldnt be flung open to everyone. This is why the immigration situation in this country is how it is. It is a difficult problem. People shouldnt be able to come here illegally.
The ones brought here as children, as you say, should be able to stay. But not be used as bargaining chips. If someone here illegally commits a crime, we should remove that person. But....i am not in favor of randomly checking papers because of someones ethnicity. That's not supposed to be how we operate.
Illegal immigration has been on the decline for years.
Address the opiod epidemic, and legalize marijuana, and the drug traffic will go into sharp decline, too.
I will tell you what really bothers me....the right cherry picks news stories to inflame their base. Sooo many more crimes are commited by bonafide americans. The percertage of educated and employed immigrants surpasses those of bonafide americans.
One other thing....if the unemployment rate is so low, who do you reckon is available to do the work that most of these illegals do?
And as far as this lottery and chain migration is concerned....do you know what it takes to get into that lottery? Trumps descripion of the people in it and the process he describes is absurd.
And to get blood family members here takes up to 20 years.

So much hostility, all lathered and angry...because of what....really?

@Carla Bud...i dont hate you. Not even a little. And i agree that our borders shouldnt be flung open to everyone. This is...

I agree with most of what you wrote there.

It had nothing to do with the conversation we were having about sanctuary cities, but...

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree 0Reply
@Budwick I agree with most of what you wrote there. It had nothing to do with the conversation we were having about...

It is the root cause of why certain areas feel the need to protect the people in their communities. Some of these "illegals" have been in those communities for years
Being productive, raising families, living life. Once here, and following our laws, illegal or legal, people need to be left to live their lives.

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +1Reply
@Carla It is the root cause of why certain areas feel the need to protect the people in their communities. Some of these...

Regardless of how long your friends and neighbors have been here illegally, it seems to me the proper course of action might be to get them to apply for citizenship - if they want to be citizens. Granting citizenship to anyone brazen enough to come illegally is not a valid precedent.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +2Reply
@Budwick Regardless of how long your friends and neighbors have been here illegally, it seems to me the proper course of...

Sorry...i have no neighbors. And, not many people immigrating to this refridgerator.

And i feel believe most would apply for legal status if they didnt fear being immediately deported.

And valid or no, people who get here, well..let them stay. Citizenship and legal status are not the same. Some people have been in dire enough straits that getting here and finding work is an immediate need. I think that need is abating from out closest neighbor.

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +2Reply
@Carla Sorry...i have no neighbors. And, not many people immigrating to this refridgerator. And i feel believe most would...

"And valid or no, people who get here, well..let them stay." - That's the desired leftist 'immigration policy'. Combined with activist style policies of states like California who are planning to issue voting rights to anyone with a drivers license reveals the true intent of the left - A) - Import as many helpless, indigents as possible B) - ensure that they are tossed a few bones like government cheese, crappy housing, crappy education C) - Provide government programs to keep those same people from ever achieving any measure of personal success D) - And make sure that these same people, now enslaved by the democrat party vote "D" for everything - thereby keeping the left elite in power over their imported slaves.

Yes, slaves. The democrats are basically the new Massahs.

PS - Enjoy the State of the Union address tonight.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree 0Reply
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@2718574

Yep. Im ill informed, deaf, blind and dumb.
Dont have, never had, a clue to the state of this country.
Only you and your far right reaching cronies know......everything. because trump told you so.

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +2Reply

Trump is trying to turn America into an all "white" country. Pathetic.

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@2716753

Exactly, and thousands of Jews were killed because of that lunatic.

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Ihre papiere bitte.

There are times I don't have a problem with it. I've been stopped "randomly" and asked for my drivers license at sobriety checkpoints. I've been checked "randomly" on military installations and asked for an ID.
If someone is acting suspiciously, or seems "out of place", I can see them being asked. (Someone sitting in a parked car outside of a bank or business for a long period o time. Someone who appears to be following someone. Someone who is trying to conceal themselves.)
It's not a safe world out there anymore.

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@2715930

Boz, I don't agree that crime has decreased. I believe that crime has just changed. While some types of crime have decreased, other crimes have increased, and the new types of crime have skyrocketed with the advancement in technology.
Things like theft used to be a person going into a store and stealing something. Today, theft is committed by someone who steals a persons identity, empty's their bank account and uses their credit cards ect. It's also more difficult to catch the new thieves.
50 years ago, you never even heard of identity theft. Today, almost everyone gets touched by it.
I also think that today, there are so many more crimes that don't get reported. When we were young, if someone stole a bike, we reported it stolen. Today, people just accept it as something that happens and that if they go to the trouble to report it, nothing is going to happen anyway.
The classification of crimes has also changed. At one time staling a car was grand theft, a felony. In some states, it is now a misdemeanor.

@JustJimColo There are times I don't have a problem with it. I've been stopped "randomly" and asked for my drivers license at...

I bet you wouldnt feel so casual about being pulled over if you were not a white man.
Out of place for many people of color means driving through a predominately white neighborhood. That's all. And then treated poorly by the police.
How many times have you been pulled over, patted down and questioned for a burned out tail light? Or just being in the wrong place?

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +3Reply
@Carla I bet you wouldnt feel so casual about being pulled over if you were not a white man. Out of place for many people...

I HAVE been pulled over, patted down and questioned for a burned out tail light. Head light too. Other times for unspecified reasons - including being in the wrong place.

How many times have you been labeled a racist, xenophobe, homophobe or targeted as a problem because your an old white man clinging to your religion and guns?

Your problems are not unique Carla. Welcome to the real world.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +2Reply
@Budwick I HAVE been pulled over, patted down and questioned for a burned out tail light. Head light too. Other times for...

Bud, i have lived in the real world my entire life.
I think my situation in this life has taught me, not tolerance, but empathy.
I think more people should learn.

@Carla Bud, i have lived in the real world my entire life. I think my situation in this life has taught me, not tolerance...

Empathy, eh?

Here are six indicators that the problem isn’t everyone else, it’s you. If you see yourself here, don’t feel bad. I understand. I’ve been there.

Everyone else is an idiot.
You have to do everything yourself.
You’ve had an endless run of difficult situations.
Someone is always standing in your way.
Nobody else knows how to communicate.
Everyone is behaving badly.

Every once in a while it’s true that the problem is other people.

Look around you very carefully. If everyone else is an idiot, the truth is that the problem is probably you.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +2Reply
@Budwick Empathy, eh? Here are six indicators that the problem isn’t everyone else, it’s you. If you see yourself...

Im sorry, bud.
If that's how you think i think. I certainly dont believe i behave that way.

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +1Reply
@Carla Im sorry, bud. If that's how you think i think. I certainly dont believe i behave that way.

I don't know that's how you think. I saw a glaring misfire in your previous comment -
'I think my situation in this life has taught me, not tolerance, but empathy.
I think more people should learn.'

The lesson you allegedly learned was empathy. So you feel you have the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. And, from this important life lesson you deduce that others should learn empathy - like you did.

That just doesn't sound like the response of an empath. It actually sounds more like paranoia.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree +2Reply
@Budwick I don't know that's how you think. I saw a glaring misfire in your previous comment - 'I think my situation in...

You sure have a skewed way at looking at people.
I dont get how trying to understand how others are affected by this world constitutes paranoia.

Carlas avatar Carla Agree +3Reply
@Carla You sure have a skewed way at looking at people. I dont get how trying to understand how others are affected by...

Trying to understand others and stating that others should change are two different things. You've said both during this conversation.

Budwicks avatar Budwick Disagree 0Reply
@Carla I bet you wouldnt feel so casual about being pulled over if you were not a white man. Out of place for many people...

If I wasn't doing anything wrong Carla, of course I wouldn't feel uncomfortable. My peers in the field I work in, are from ALL races. We work all over the US and all over the world. In the 30+ years I've been in this field, I have never heard of ANY peer claiming to have been harassed or treated badly by police because of their color. Zero. There have been a lot of dangerous situations I've been in "because I am white".

The standard response is, "You can't understand because you aren't black." That's BS. Should a white guy yell racism anytime a black, brown, or Asian cop pulls them over and then tell people, you don't understand because you're not white?

People play the victim card all the time, because they can, and because it pays.

Police pat people down because of their demeanor. Color has nothing to do with. (Except in very rare cases)

If a black man is pulled over and won't have any eye contact with the cop, is acting strange, and looks like he is going to try to run, and doesn't have a drivers lisence, I hope the cop does pat him down. (It's not their first day on the block, and you'll see a black cop pat him down as fast as a white cop.)
Lets take that same black guy, except now he is very cooperative, doesn't show any signs of guilt, makes eye contact with the cop and has his drivers license and registration, the cop will tell him why he stopped him, cite him for any infraction and send him on his way.

Now reverse what I said above and the guy is white. Same reaction by the cops.

Let's look at the places a black can't go without putting his life in danger. Can you think of any, "specifically"?
I can give you a long list of areas I would probably be killed if I was in them at night, solely because I am white.

Ever watch COP's? They pull over as many whites for what you described, and patted just as many down, as blacks. Why don't we hear more about this? Because the white guy isn't going to yell racism because he was arrested for doing something wrong. How many times have we seen the race card pulled? It makes news, and then later, when it is proven there was no racism or the person lied, we're lucky if it makes the back page of the newspaper.

There is so much racial rhetoric about "If you weren't white"____ fill in the blank that it makes me laugh most of the time. It has no meaning anymore.

I honestly don't understand how that could bother anyone. Don't you carry your I.D. with you? It's not as if they shoot people without papers down or take them to concentration camps. I thought I clicked on "Disagree." Guess not.

@JerryHendrickson I honestly don't understand how that could bother anyone. Don't you carry your I.D. with you? It's not as if they...

Because it's a slippery slope. Once we give away rights like those in the 4th Amendment we never get them back.

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@2715906

Then states should provide citizenship status on licenses.

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@2715941

Why are states holding out against something that will solve the problem?

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@2715988

The alternative is putting up border walls around every state.

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@2716000

That brings us back to drivers licenses stating whether someone is a citizen or not working as a tool against illegal immigration. Forget buildings and nuclear power plants; that's not what we were talking about to begin with.

@2716000

About 12 years ago, there were a number of illegals who had jobs in various nuclear power facilities. (So much for the myth that illegals are only working in agriculture and jobs that nobody wants.)

https://www.washingtontimes.com...-112917-3277r/

http://www.rense.com/general21/pa.htm

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/97756...ilitary-bases/

I could go on with more links, and there are many Boz..

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@2716115

That's it Boz. Nobody is being held accountable. They award contracts, and then the companies who get the contract's, sub out the work to others.
It's like you hire me and my company to do a job because of my expertise for $75 an hour, and I hire another company to do it for $35 an hour, and they hire people off the street to do it for $20 an hour.

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@2716168

These people were not doing any of those things. They were riding on a bus minding their own business.

You give me a break.

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@2717019

Now imagine how you would feel if you were not a criminal and they pulled you over? What if you were polite, not white, and they cuffed you and dragged you off for speeding and sent your kid to child protective services.

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@2717484

Did you even watch the video?

That woman was not indignant.

And you admitted to being a criminal. You were speeding! This woman was doing nothing. Sitting quietly on a bus minding her own business. She was quiet, kind, cooperative and gentle during the entire proceeding.

You are trying to make this about race and it is not. It is about unreasonable search and seizure. One of your fundamental rights, that you seem to be willing to give up so you can loud proclaim how "WHITE" you are.

If you want to make this about race, I can post tons of videos of people who do not brag about being "WHITE" getting shot while being polite and cooperative.

No government officials stop people without reasonable criminal suspicion and we need to get rid of terrorist or violent gang members!!!

1stMates avatar 1stMate Disagree +1Reply

No government officer will stop anyone without criminal suspicion. They must try to stop the vicious gang members and terrorists for the general public safety. Beside, anyone can file a chage to any government officer who stops you for no reasonable criminal suspicion.

1stMates avatar 1stMate Disagree +1Reply
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