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Conservative (ISIS/Muslim/ Christian/Republican) logic: instead of teaching your sons not to be creepy perverts, admonish your daughters not to be 'sluts'.

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VicZincs avatar Politics
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Why can't we do both? Why can't we teach our sons not to be creepy perverts AND teach our daughters not to be sluts?

@Seonag Why can't we do both? Why can't we teach our sons not to be creepy perverts AND teach our daughters not to be sluts?

The concern is of course, what's a slut?

Wearing a short skirt? Smiling at strangers? Not covering yourself from head to toe in draperies?

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@2729659

So true.

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@2729658

Correct. That's why it is quotes. People are accused of being 'sluts' for showing cleavage.

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@2729722

ba-dum, tish!

and there we have it folks. Point proven.

@2729722

How should a man behave instead of the so-called slutty version - I could use your advice - and what would I call them that's equal in meaning that women are given... I really don't know.

@2729658

What's a male called who goes past the outer limits of social behavior? I honestly don't know.

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@2729853

Yes- key word, 'considered' by whom and why?

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@2729862

And another

Ba-dum tish!

@VicZinc The concern is of course, what's a slut? Wearing a short skirt? Smiling at strangers? Not covering yourself...

Slut, as I was taught over 50 years ago, was a female who used her sex (by dress and action) to attract males for a sexual encounter.

@Seonag Why can't we do both? Why can't we teach our sons not to be creepy perverts AND teach our daughters not to be sluts?

because being sexually free and promiscuous is awesome and shouldn't be reprimanded. Being a rapist is bad, enjoying sex is not.

@Seonag Why can't we do both? Why can't we teach our sons not to be creepy perverts AND teach our daughters not to be sluts?

Because.... because... I have no idea why not people are just this way they don't learn and it's so easy to be bad.

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I'm not sure I would correlate that to religion or parties (or if I would, it would be the extremists), but that is something I have been saying for years: instead of teaching girls how to cover up and act "proper", to not tempt the innocent and uncontrollable rapists, the parents should just teach their kids to respect a fucking "no". You know, basic civility and all that.

Sofias avatar Sofia Agree +5Reply
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@2729706

How so Maze?

Do you let your daughters run around topless? Do you let your sons? Do you treat them the same when it comes to promiscuity?

Do you think homosexuals are sexual deviants, but that 70 year old man marrying a 25 year old women is 'lucky'?

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@2729731

In the West we owe much to Christianity and great thinkers such as St. Thomas Aquinas, but a free an open society? I believe we owe this to the great philosophers of the age of reason and the Enlightenment.

In contrast. the Puritans set up their own theocracy and banished those who disagreed with their religious views. And Catholics and Protestants discriminated against, and occasionally killed, each other.

@2729731

Nah they’re crap holes because the first world keeps bombing them and stealing their resources

Hindering progress in their civilizations

Places like Turkey that have resources and have not suffered so much are more towards equality

At the same time being a Muslim country
Imagine that

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@2729799

I’m not justifying it

Wrong is wrong

But I see the first world bombing war torn countries as a big part of the problem

If you follow maslows hierarchy of laws to some extent...

If you look at other oppressive societies

Even in places in America where they live in squalid conditions, there’s higher levels of inequality

Like extreme Mormons (not all Mormons but extreme ones)

When basic human needs are not met, you’re more focused on surviving. Equality is not a priority

Disclaimer: does not apply to every situation

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@2729949

Well islam doesn’t condone it

It is a matter of interpretation

And a group like ISIS doesnt even follow the rules

Murder
Pre marital sex
Rape
Alcohol
They don’t pray regularly
They don’t even read the Quran

A white man who escaped their clutches quoted that he never once saw them read the Quran

These are things I’ve explained a million times here, but to what to avail?

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@2729958

Because Muslims in Turkey and other better off nations don’t have those views

My parents who are from Bangladesh (a poor country) never had those views

Obviously violent people in Bangladesh have those views as I’ve seen in articles, but none we have associated with

There’s even a verse that says “There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion”

Being that Muslims make up the second largest religious group with over 2 billion members, if we did have those views the world would not be so stable

Because compared to a 100 years ago, or 4000 years ago, the world has never been so peaceful

The number of battles has steadily been on the decline as the world has progressed

@fuzala Because Muslims in Turkey and other better off nations don’t have those views My parents who are from...

The reason the world has never been so peaceful is that something big happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

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@2730004

That’s in reference to when the Quraysh were attacking and murdering Muslims for 10 years in Makkah

So Muslims relocated to Medina for safety and kept getting persecuted even then

The quraysh broke the treaty and waged war

So the order was fight those who fight you for survival

There wasn’t forcing religion for that

The members of Quraysh who eventually sought peace and forgiveness were granted amnesty and kept their polytheist beliefs

Context matters, interpretation matters

Forcing religion is prohibited where it’s clearly stated that there is no compulsion in religion

Was their violence? Yes for Self defense

But the life of every Human was held as valuable regardless of beliefs and he even ordered to make sure that not even trees should be harmed

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@2730034

I could keep going and explain each one like I did the previous one

They all refer to specific events that went down

there's historical context

the rule of thumb is aggression is only against aggressors

If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors. (2:190-193) Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. (2:190)

@fuzala That’s in reference to when the Quraysh were attacking and murdering Muslims for 10 years in Makkah So Muslims...

"Was their violence? Yes for Self defense "

Ohh... I understand now. It was for self-defense, for example, that the Moors invaded and occupied Spain for 700 years, and marched north into France, to be stopped in 732 CE at Tours, just 90 miles south of Paris... all for self-defense, no doubt.

Glad you cleared that up for me. think smilie

@Thinkerbell "Was their violence? Yes for Self defense " Ohh... I understand now. It was for self-defense, for example, that...

Wasn’t from the Prophet’s time so you can’t say he condoned it

He definitely didn’t live for 700 years

Glad to actually clear it up for you

@fuzala Wasn’t from the Prophet’s time so you can’t say he condoned it He definitely didn’t live for 700...

Nobody said Muhammad lived for 700 years, nor did I say he condoned it.

The Moorish invasion of Spain started in 711 CE, so it was about 80 years after his death.

YOU said "the rule of thumb is aggression is only against aggressors" and "Was their violence? Yes for Self defense ".

So what you said applies ONLY to Muhammad, and the Moors were going against his teachings, is that correct?

Glad you cleared that up for me.

@fuzala Yes ISIS and Moors were and are against his teachings

And what about the Arab conquests of Armenia and Georgia, a few years after Muhammad's death? Were these Arabs defending themselves against Armenian and Georgian aggression, or were they going against Muhammad's teachings also?

@Thinkerbell And what about the Arab conquests of Armenia and Georgia, a few years after Muhammad's death? Were these Arabs...

Well his companions weren’t free from wrongdoings

I don’t really know much about those conquests at all though

But Even today there are sects that are purely political like Sunni and Shi’a

@fuzala Well his companions weren’t free from wrongdoings I don’t really know much about those conquests at all...

You might also wish to study the Ottoman empire. They were equal-opportunity aggressors, conquering and occupying not only large parts of southeastern Europe, but also Egypt, Palestine and North Africa, among many other Muslim areas.

Oh, and don't forget Timur, who styled many of his aggressive conquests as "jihads".

It looks like the Ottoman Turks and Timur weren't following Muhammad's teachings about aggression either.

So, If people followed the pedophile mohamed, and islamic beliefs, their wouldn't be sluts, or perverts. Since I read the Koran years ago, that would also include homosexuals, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists and anyone else who doesn't follow the crazy teachings of that lunatic. Meanwhile, things like rape are not a crime in the islamic religion if done against non muslims. (Saying "no" to a muslim doesn't work for women) The answer to anything anyone does, who is not a muslim is to kill them. Radical liberals are all for protecting muslims and their beliefs. Talk about lunacy.

It’s sexist logic

And it’s logic that’s existed long before any Abrahamic religion

The world is playing catch up
If I can catch up so can the rest of the world regardless of political/religious affiliations

You're dead wrong on Conservative logic.

@VicZinc Enlighten me

I'm a Christian-Conservative and have always taught my children to treat everyone with respect, with no double standard in regards to gender. It's not okay for men to be deranged perverts any more than it's okay for women to be. It is also extremely unfair to group Christian ideals with ISIS in any way. Why do that? It's insulting. The same with comparing conservatism to ISIS. I've never lopped off a head or raped a woman and neither has my son. Did you just go out of your way to insult us, to group us in with these evil, murdering rapists?

@JerryHendrickson I'm a Christian-Conservative and have always taught my children to treat everyone with respect, with no double...

Sorry Jerry, did not mean to imply that at all.

What I see are ISIS treating women like second class. Forcing the to cover themselves and blaming them for rape because they were 'exciting' men with their taunting bodies.

I see Christians and republicans doing the same (to a less degree). Accusing women of flaunting their sexuality "what did she expect to happen, dressed like a slut."

I see a very close relation between republicans and ISIS. Both wanting to tie religions beliefs to political ones. Both preferring male leaders and saying that women should stay at home. Both thinking that homosexuality is a sin and the men who take on feminized roles are to be mocked or chastised.

There is a reason that 90% of Muslims in America vote republican. There is a reason both Muslims and Christian fight equality laws, like gender neutral bathrooms. It is because they share very similar values.

My guess is that if you had a daughter you would not let her run around topless but you would not mind if your son did. Same as ISIS, same as most conservatives.

Sorry I insulted you by comparing Christians to the only other major conservative religion based on the same creation myth.

@VicZinc Sorry Jerry, did not mean to imply that at all. What I see are ISIS treating women like second class. Forcing...

I agree with you on a lot of things, but most American Muslims are a strongly democratic constituency

Any stat will show that

@VicZinc Sorry Jerry, did not mean to imply that at all. What I see are ISIS treating women like second class. Forcing...

Well that last sentence was sure an insincere and sarcastic apology. You think that I'm a bad person due to my Christian Conservatism. It's frustrating that people have your deluded view.

@JerryHendrickson Well that last sentence was sure an insincere and sarcastic apology. You think that I'm a bad person due to my...

I don't think you are a bad person. I think Christian values are more closely aligned with those of the Muslim faith then most people care to admit.

@VicZinc I don't think you are a bad person. I think Christian values are more closely aligned with those of the Muslim...

I’ve been saying that

And the reaction I get from both groups is either offense or interest depending on the confidence level in their faith

The less confident are usually the ones offended hehe smilie!

@VicZinc I don't think you are a bad person. I think Christian values are more closely aligned with those of the Muslim...

Kill the infidel and oppress women and gays goes completely against the Christian values I hold. I subscribe to Jesus' "Love one another" teaching. The violence of the Old Testament went out the window with "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

@JerryHendrickson Kill the infidel and oppress women and gays goes completely against the Christian values I hold. I subscribe to...

I do apologize Jerry.

there are two 'kinds' of conservatives: social and fiscal.

A fiscal conservative is against deficit spending tends to want to reduce all government spending and lower taxes and balance the budget. I disagree but understand the logic.

A social conservatism often includes the belief that marriage is only between one man and one woman, that life begins at conception, that gender is determined by biology. It almost always reflects the teachings of conservative Christian, Jewish, and Muslim groups. For example, many believe that governments should not provide social welfare especially to foreigners.

I was taught that Jesus treated everyone the same, jews, and non-jews. Even though the rabbis and pharisees at that time taught that that foreigners did not need to be given the same rights as jews. Jesus went against that practice and taught that we are all brothers. I am glad that you agree.

This is a horribly offensive and closed minded post. One does not choose their sex nor does one choose their parents politic believes, and yet you are impling us sons of conservatives creepy preverts?

Shame on you!

You call homophobic and racist logic is flawed, and then you turn right around and use the same flawed logic to imply BS toward to sons of conservatives... your implying is just as bad as the homophobic and racist. You're judging someone on something that they can't control. It's BS!

Zolfies avatar Zolfie Disagree +1Reply
@Zolfie This is a horribly offensive and closed minded post. One does not choose their sex nor does one choose their...

I didn't say they were perverts, I said no one taught them not to be perverts. Big difference.

@VicZinc I didn't say they were perverts, I said no one taught them not to be perverts. Big difference.

Wrong, instead of saying we are perverts, you just implied it by saying no one taught us not to be perverts. It's the same thing...

And it's shameful that you would stoop that low

Aren't you a mod? And your throwing insults at others? WTF?

This post is sexist and discriminatory to towards males with conservative parents...

Zolfies avatar Zolfie Disagree +1Reply
@VicZinc I didn't say they were perverts, I said no one taught them not to be perverts. Big difference.

Of course you said that, Vic.

If none were perverts, then there wouldn't be any need to teach them not to be perverts.

@VicZinc "Me too"

"You too" what? A pervert? biggrin smilie

@Thinkerbell "You too" what? A pervert?

Of course. I will stick my dick in anyone, even you.

@VicZinc Of course. I will stick my dick in anyone, even you.

Yeah, the subject of your debauchery has come up before. biggrin smilie
Image in content

@Thinkerbell Yeah, the subject of your debauchery has come up before...

Never use porn. I don't approve of it.

The real thing is all I need.

@VicZinc Never use porn. I don't approve of it. The real thing is all I need.

Now you're discriminating against porn stars? omg smilie
They have to make a living too!

There once was a pervert named Vic,
Who said he would stick his old d*ck
In a chick picked at random,
But also, in tandem,
Would d*ck with a guy just as quick.

@VicZinc No denying that.

So Vic, now it seems you are bi.
Your profile says 'straight'; that's a lie?
The ramifications
Of such revelations
Are getting to be TMI. wary smilie

Liberal / Pagan / Hollywood logic: If it moves - phuck it! If it pleases you, do it again.

sexual misconduct is an issue that's not sex-oriented. I'd suggest people, period, shake-up their family, friends, distant relatives, and neighbors to keep their decency about others in check rather than worrying about which gender is at fault or you're going to have an imposible time turning things around!!!!!!

Yes teach you children to be respectable persons. Boys should not be aggressive or creepy towards women, and girls would do well to be ladies at all times.

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