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Lying to someone because you don't want to hurt them is just an insult to their intelligence. If you think you're being a nice person by being deceitful, you're an asshat. The truth hurts and more often than not, it's gonna be something you don't want to hear; it doesn't excuse bending someone's perception based on how YOU want someone to react. It's just emotional manipulation.

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CiscoKarpes avatar Animals & Nature
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@2740062

Advocating dishonesty and lying just opens the door for more lying and dishonesty.

The thing about lies is that they're ever growing and expanding.
They don't go away they're floating around til the truth finally gets out.

I'd rather been seen as an insensitive prick than to lead someone on and insult their intelligence and perception of reality.

My sense of "morality" has nothing to do with being an honest person

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@2740081

Obviously white lies are another story.

Lying is detrimental in extremes.
Telling your grandma she looks beautiful is not along the lines of emotional manipulation

Lying about small things like that are completely different.

@CiscoKarpe Obviously white lies are another story. Lying is detrimental in extremes. Telling your grandma she looks beautiful...

You just countered your first sentence:

"Lying to someone because you don't want to hurt them is just an insult to their intelligence."

By telling grandma that white lie, according to your statement, is insulting her intelligence.

@CiscoKarpe Advocating dishonesty and lying just opens the door for more lying and dishonesty. The thing about lies is that...

So, if you were hiding a Jewish family in your home during the days of Hitler and the Nazis came to your door asking if there were any Jews inside, you wouldn't lie?

@JerryHendrickson So, if you were hiding a Jewish family in your home during the days of Hitler and the Nazis came to your door...

You're warping my words to fit a complete extreme.

I'm speaking in the context of EMOTIONS and FEELINGS.

Im not a Nazi promoting grandma hater Jesus Christ.

@CiscoKarpe You're warping my words to fit a complete extreme. I'm speaking in the context of EMOTIONS and FEELINGS. Im not a...

Alright then: A very ugly looking woman asks you "How do I look?" Do you say "You look like shit; you're ugly as fuck." ?

@JerryHendrickson Alright then: A very ugly looking woman asks you "How do I look?" Do you say "You look like shit; you're ugly as...

Anyway I go about this I will be an asshole.

If I lie and say she looks beautiful she may take it as a sign of interest then I have to lie more, if I tell her the truth I'm just an asshole out in the open if I say I don't find her attractive.

The difference would be that people would either know or not know that I'm insensitive.

Which doesn't really change my character either way.

@JerryHendrickson How would you answer her?

Well obviously I would say you look fine.

But in my head I'd be like GOD NO.

How I answer her doesn't change my character and my initial negative thought.

Just cause I lied to her doesn't make me any less of a shitbag.

@CiscoKarpe Well obviously I would say you look fine. But in my head I'd be like GOD NO. How I answer her doesn't change my...

"Well obviously I would say you look fine."

So what you're telling people with this post is:

"Do as I say and not as I Do".

DandyDons avatar DandyDon Disagree -1Reply
@DandyDon "Well obviously I would say you look fine." So what you're telling people with this post is: "Do as I say and not...

Lying to someone and saying they look good isn't along the lines of a lie that could tear someone apart.

If I was speaking in terms of white lies I wouldn't be so serious

@DandyDon "Well obviously I would say you look fine." So what you're telling people with this post is: "Do as I say and not...

Well of course, objectively lying is deceitful and things like white lies are not along the lines of lying about serious emotional relationship problems.
Be it platonic or romantic.

I mean if I outright said she was fat and ugly she can either
A) Take my irrelevant opinion of her looks and go on with her life, maybe WORK on her ugliness or fatness somehow?
B) Take my irrelevant opinion of her looks and beat herself up and determine her value from an off-hand comment.

Coaches don’t play, doesn’t mean someone can’t give decent information and insight.

@CiscoKarpe Well of course, objectively lying is deceitful and things like white lies are not along the lines of lying about...

When you get down to it, each person has to live with the decisions they make..

My decisions don't keep me awake at night, even though someone else might think I'm a asshat for making them..

DandyDons avatar DandyDon Disagree -1Reply
@DandyDon When you get down to it, each person has to live with the decisions they make.. My decisions don't keep me awake...

I definitely understand.

It’s not a matter of trying to put people down, it’s more of a thought provoking attempt to get people to be a little more reflective about the decisions they make.

@2740062

Your suggestion just opens the door for people to take advantage and manipulate people.

You think you're being nice and you care but if you can't be honest with someone you supposedly care about how the hell does that make any sense?

You think you're lying to help someone else, but in reality you're doing it for yourself.

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@2740088

I understand that you can approach certain scenarios differently.

I'm not speaking in terms of extremes and I am most definitely not speaking in terms of how a dress looks on a woman.

I'm speaking against emotional and mental manipulation and lies that have to do with SERIOUS emotional issues.

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@2740098

I understand there are different ways to go about things, I understand a lot of people are too sensitive and close minded to accept anything they don't want to accept.

The philosophy of take it easy on people and child-proof information is just turning people into oversensitive babies who just want happy platitudes instead of anything real.

Ignore it and put it on the shelf, your true character and intentions will shine through your lies eventually if you're consistently lying to the people you care about and affiliate with regularly.

I kinda agree and that is generally my philosophy. I try to stick to the truth...if someone asks how I feel about 'church' I might say "it's not for me" rather than say "it makes me want to vomit." This isn't how I feel...:) it's an example.

Also...when a person starts let's say ranting they are only expressing themselves...which is good, right? But some sensitive people take on other peeps burdens...and if I know that...I try to change my words... I know I'm not responsible for how other people take things....but if I know other people's issues...it helps the 'discussion' move forward instead of just becoming another circular argument...

Whoooa hold on there chilly pepper dont bark at people like that! No one who spares the truth from someone to avoid hurting their feelings has ever done it with bad intentions. Sometimes keeping silent about something is better, especially when nothing but grief can come from it, ignorance is bliss.

@Sunny_the_skeptic Whoooa hold on there chilly pepper dont bark at people like that! No one who spares the truth from someone to avoid...

If you think I’m ugly it will hurt my feelings, BUT if I can learn how to not let what people think phase me maybe I can work on things like my appearance or any faults I can work on.

If you’re a fat ugly person then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I don’t want a bunch of people insulting my intelligence because there are things more important than someone’s feelings

@CiscoKarpe If you think I’m ugly it will hurt my feelings, BUT if I can learn how to not let what people think phase me...

Why do you think they're insulting your intelligence? If you're ugly, fat etc you're not fooling anyone. You know it, they know it, everyone does, maybe people are just nice and prefer not to focus on that aspect, I'm not saying lie about it. What good does it do if I go up to you and say hey Cisco you're butt ugly, the proper response is screw you jerk! Has it crossed your mind that opinion is also subjective? I think beets taste like dirt, but that doesn't mean that others dont love them. If you say something like honestly tell me what do you think then I'd oblige but otherwise I wouldn't put someone's looks in question especially when they dont ask me to.

What many feel are lies, are no more than perception. If an unattractive person who I am friends with, asks me how they look, I'll generally say very nice, because I'm not basing it totally on looks. If an average kid I'm working with says he isn't smart, I'll tell him he is smart and can do it. It may just take him longer to figure it out. Degrees of intelligence vary. An average kid is more intelligent than 50% of the population while not as intelligent as the other 50%.
For some things, I don't tell a person 100% of the truth because generally, they already know the truth.

IF you care about the person you can give them some gentle constructive advice. People who love you will try to help you be a better person.
If you don't care then it doesn't matter what you say to them.

Brutal honesty often gets mistaken for the truth. Just because someone is honest does not mean they are right.

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree +2Reply

It's honestly surprising how many people advocate for dishonesty and lying.

@CiscoKarpe It's honestly surprising how many people advocate for dishonesty and lying.

What would you say to my sister? When she cooks a meal she expects people to say something about it...sometimes I've said: it could use more soy sauce...just because we ALL say Everything's Great! all the time. We have come to the agreement that it's the best thing to do...I mean, really...if you slave over a stove for hours for a measly meal...do YOU really want people to act like food critics?

Context is important.

I believe it is possible to be honest, without being cruel. I do not think not sharing every feeling or thought one is having about another, equates to being deceitful or manipulative. There are definitely times when "lying" to someone IS with that intent, but those times are rarely because someone doesn't want to hurt another's feelings.

Depends on the situation.

As Miss Manners once wrote, "Honesty is far too often used as a cover for rudeness. There is a world of difference between being candid and voicing insulting opinions."

For example; Newborns are always adorable and brides are always beautiful, regardless of the "truth".

Only an asshat would say otherwise.

The issue here is that most people are more concerned with their feelings than they’re concerned with having people around they can actually trust.

@CiscoKarpe The issue here is that most people are more concerned with their feelings than they’re concerned with having...

The fact that people spare your feelings doesn't mean they're not trust worthy. It's not equal to deception, it's not that anti fat shaming thing where they tell land whes that they're beautiful.

If you want to lie to someone about something shallow and superficial that’s on you.
Things like someone’s looks are completely subjective, so my opinion of how someone looks doesn’t determine their value to someone else.

Lying,
What you do to get away with being an asshole without anyone knowing you’re an asshole.

Just because you refuse to tell someone how you really feel doesn’t change your HONEST and TRUE opinion.
You’re just making someone happy to avoid confrontation because THAT is more important than being open and vocal to people.
You THINK you’re doing it FOR someone.
In reality you’re doing whatever you can in your power to avoid awkward conflict for YOUR sake.

If you’re lying that’s fine.
But don’t mistake it for you doing a “good” thing.
You’re helping yourself to avoid unwanted conflict.
Being comfortable and being happy is more important than being honest in any sense.
You don’t want your partner to found out you cheated?
Don’t tell them because you don’t want to hurt them.
Break up with them or keep up your lies to avoid taking responsibility for your actions.
Don’t find someone attractive?
Don’t tell them because you don’t want to hurt them.
If they’re asking you about how they look they obviously care about your opinion of them.
So how do you respect how much they care about YOUR opinion of you?
You lie to them about YOUR opinion of them which they seem to hold in some high regard.
You’re more concerned with AVOIDING CONFLICT than you are with “being nice”.

Everything has a reason.

Shoot if that’s emotional manipulation then keep on. I call it emotionally clever.

If you don’t like that, then oh well too bad.

You tell someone they look nice. They feel good. They do good things. Makes the world a better place. Brutality would only hinder them

It’s not an insult to anyone’s intelligence. It’s pretty good socialization, and it works more often than not

fuzalas avatar fuzala Disagree 0Reply
@fuzala Shoot if that’s emotional manipulation then keep on. I call it emotionally clever. If you don’t like that...

Life isn't all happy, no person is perfect by any means.

This ideal that people are too fragile to deal with anything they don't want to deal with is just breeding a bunch of oversensitive babies who want to hear what they want to hear.
It doesn't promote any change, it makes you FEEL good.

@fuzala Shoot if that’s emotional manipulation then keep on. I call it emotionally clever. If you don’t like that...

People just want to feel good without actually putting forth the serious effort it takes to make it long lasting rather than just seeking instant gratification.

The truth will set you free.

On the other end...

Telling the truth because you don't mind hurting someones feelings, can just as easily make you a asshole...

AssHole/AssHat, it's a fine line when someones feeling are being considered.

Not the same as a person, who is just a absolute all around liar.

DandyDons avatar DandyDon Disagree -1Reply
@DandyDon On the other end... Telling the truth because you don't mind hurting someones feelings, can just as easily make...

Telling someone the truth isn't an asshole thing to do, LEADING PEOPLE ON, LYING, GIVING PEOPLE A FALSE IMPRESSION AND PERCEPTION IS WORSE.
It takes a hell of a lot more elaborate effort to keep a lie going than it does to be straightforward and honest

@DandyDon On the other end... Telling the truth because you don't mind hurting someones feelings, can just as easily make...

Lying to someone in a context like that you THINK you're doing it for someone else.
It's selfish to decide what information people get to hear.
You lie and keep yourself from expressing your true feelings based on how someone else will react which is a defense mechanism for you.

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