Would you Call an Economic System That Allows one Person to Amass $100 Billion While 63% of the Population Couldn't Handle a $500 Emergency Successful?

Does that sound like a fair distribution of wealth?
It's been drummed into all of our heads that free market Capitalism is the best system on which to base an economy. But is it? They say Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty than any other system. That is total bullshit. What raised people out of poverty was the industrial revolution and it happened in spite of Capitalism not because of it. Capitalism seemed to work in the US for a time. That's where the phrase American exceptionalism was born. Capitalism has failed everywhere it's ever been tried except the US. The only reason it seemed to work here was a 150 year labor shortage and a lot of spilled blood that kept wages rising until the mid 70s when the labor shortage was ended by computers. Now we have a wealth gap that hasn't existed since the Pharaohs. In fact, the Pharaohs would be green with envy. Democracy, in any form, is impossible under these conditions. When they changed personnel to human resources it should have been a clue. Workers are just another resource to be exploited to exhaustion or collapse in pursuit of profit. It's the most destructive system known to man and it forces people to worship money and battle over scraps. The sooner we realize this doesn't work the better off we'll be. Everyone and their brother has tried to fix it and some of the fixes worked but not for long leaving Capitalism as unstable as it is destructive. There's a major downturn every 3 - 7 years and just like the game, one person ends up owning everything. In the US 3 people now hold as much wealth as the bottom 50% and 1/10 of 1% own as much as the bottom 90%.
We have CEOs that make $250,000 a day. 365 days a year. When median income is $51,000 a year? Are you kidding me? How is that fair distribution? Do CEOs produce that much more? No, they don't. Jeff Besos doesn't produce shit but he does treat his employees like shit. When he had employees passing out from heat exhaustion did he air condition the warehouse? No, he had an ambulance parked outside on standby. Because it's hard to get by with only $100 billion. And now they want to eliminate the inheritance tax? This is beyond stupid. It's as absurd as all the tax cuts that started with Reagan. When 63% of the richest country in the history of the world couldn't handle a $500 emergency how, in the wide, wide world of sports, can you call this system a success?

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urwutuiss avatar Money & Economics
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would you consider an economic system that punishes those that work and rewards the lazy as a successful economic system? USSR victims would say NO

@deusvult would you consider an economic system that punishes those that work and rewards the lazy as a successful economic...

Don't be ridiculous.
What I have a problem with is the concentration of wealth.
We might as well have royalty.

When one person can amass more than they could spend in 10 lifetimes while average working people can't afford to send their kids to school it's not a fair distribution of wealth.
When the richest country in the history of the world has half its population at or near the poverty line it's not because half the population is lazy.

@urwutuis Don't be ridiculous. What I have a problem with is the concentration of wealth. We might as well have royalty...

when its government amassing all the wealth i would agree, but that only happens under socialist regimes.

who cares if a private business owner earns that much?!!?!?!! they worked their asses off for it.

when its government officials like obama or Bernie Sanders its from being lazy taxpayer money sapsucking LEECHES then its an issue

@deusvult when its government amassing all the wealth i would agree, but that only happens under socialist regimes. who...

You assume private business works their ass off but govt doesn't.

Bernie sanders? The guy who doesn't take corporate money a leech? It appears your only exposure has been RW and/or corporate dem propaganda.

Outside of servicing themselves how much work do banks and Wall St. do?
If you're looking for leeches that's where you'll find them.-

Why do you think poverty has been increasing over the last 4 decades? Did half the country decide to be lazy?

3 people now own more than the bottom 90%
You don't see a problem there?

@urwutuis You assume private business works their ass off but govt doesn't. Bernie sanders? The guy who doesn't take...

what does government actually do that the private sector can;t do for a better price?

bernie sanders uses TAXPAYER money to afford his multiple homes, what job has bernie sanders ACTUALLY have? he was a basement dwelling looser like Karl Marx, and funny enough like Karl Marx he thinks he has a clue about economics, well he doesn;t. all he know is how to live off other peoples money, sounds like you have been brainwashed by liberal/communist MSM.

that is because of corporatism, and sure its an issue, and Bernie sanders loved that corporatism, of course he disguised it as socialism and "compassion" but in reality he was hoping to increases taxes so he could buy himself bigger pockets to line. the "free" stuff was all candy (from a white windowless van) for unsuspecting victims.

the more corporatist/socialist a country is, the more money the 1% will have. with all the laws/regulations government can place to squash competition and help those select few, and the more benefits they give each other.

you want to fix the problem? eliminate 99% of the government, and give the country back to "we the people".

@deusvult what does government actually do that the private sector can;t do for a better price? bernie sanders uses...

The govt can always do it for less. It doesn't have to show a profit. The private sector would never go to the moon, build the hoover dam, dig the Panama Canal. build the interstate, launch GPS, rescue transistors
then there's little things like water, public transportation, , power, fire dept, police, traffic control, parks, land marks, nature preserves, libraries,
The private sector is the least efficient most destructive force known. It's called planned obsolescence for cyclical consumption and there is no competition anymore. It has either been driven out or absorbed. There may not be monopolies but there are certainly cabals.
Without govt the market wouldn't last 5 minutes.

The Govt is owned.
Corporate rule is what we have now. How will more of it fix the problem?
You know what capitalism produces? Look around.
What we have now is what capitalism produces. Mass poverty, underemployment for coolie wages with runaway climate change and an economy on the verge of collapse. Capitalism is eating its own tail.

Haven't you figured out yet that trickle down is a lie?
Real wages have gone down in the last 2 years.

Okay ... let's say for a moment that you are correct, that capitalism doesn't work.

So what economic system do YOU propose to replace it with, that DOES work?!? And by that, it has to work by your own definition of a successful system. It has to be "fair" - meaning no disparity of wealth.

@Walt_OReagun Okay ... let's say for a moment that you are correct, that capitalism doesn't work. So what economic system do YOU...

Fair does not mean no disparity in wealth. It means more equal distribution.
0.1% own more than 90%.
How is democracy possible when a handful of people own everything?

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@2801861

You guys crack me up. Talk about politically clueless.
First, Nobody wants equal distribution and nobody is looking to give a free ride to lazy people. That's just more RW bullshit.

Second, the question is: Would you call an economic system that produces those results a success?

It's a simple enough question.

@urwutuis You guys crack me up. Talk about politically clueless. First, Nobody wants equal distribution and nobody is looking...

Not so simple. I think you should study the spending habits of one riche one poor I bet the poor guy wastes money and that is why he is poor, I bet the rich guy has money in the bank and less foolishness in his life. Probably fewer kids too.

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@2802081

They are not my democratic politicians but that doesn't make your statement any less bullshit. Who said equal distribution?
You think Comcast and Sinclair are socialist?
The CORPORATE media giants?
I guess you would since you also think working people have benefited from Trump policy.
I'd rather be crazy than stupid.

Lying to my base? I don't have a base.
You seem to think that everyone who doesn't support Trump supports the democratic party.
You know why?
Your tribal leaders said so.

Did you say lies?
https://www.nytimes.com/interac...umps-lies.html

Progressive rule of law? Which laws would those be?
Health care for all?
Tuition free college?
Background check for guns?
Reduce Climate change?
Cut Pollution?
Raise minimum wage?

Or is it

Ban cities raising minimum wage
Purge voters
Citizens United (bribery)
Bail out of nuke deal
Gift corporations
Right to work (for less)
Allow pollution
More global warming
Muslim ban
Zero tolerance

You really are in a bubble.
Is that'why we need a Space Force?

@urwutuis Fair does not mean no disparity in wealth. It means more equal distribution. 0.1% own more than 90%. How is...

You haven't answered the question.

What economic system do YOU propose to replace capitalism with?

@Walt_OReagun You haven't answered the question. What economic system do YOU propose to replace capitalism with?

It would be a mixture
For one thing Wall St. would be history.
So would fractional reserve counterfeiting.
Change the structure and rules of corporations.
Drastically localize virtually everything.
Change patent and copyright laws.

The current scarcity based debt system works in direct opposition to efficiency and rewards destruction.
Polluted water is great for bottled water and more sick people taking more drugs would be a boost for GDP. Climate change is good for business. All disaster is good for business
The cut throat competition of capitalism is degrading, duplicates labor and stifles innovation
People are not naturally greedy. It's false scarcity and inequality that creates greed.
We need to be collaborative not competitive.

Why is US capitalism so brutal? People in other countries don't go bankrupt and lose their homes because they get sick.
College in Germany is tuition free. You don't even have to be a citizen.

Massive socio-economic inequality is corrosive on society. It has a direct correlation to crime rates, alcoholism, teenage pregnancy, infant mortality and a host of other social ills.
You want to reduce violence, reduce inequality.
A system that distributes wealth as disproportionately as the US is not doing a good job.

@urwutuis Fair does not mean no disparity in wealth. It means more equal distribution. 0.1% own more than 90%. How is...

you make no sense whatsoever.

fair distribution is only possible via big government stealing from those who work to give to those who do not or don;t work as hard,

and we have already seen, the more socialist a government is, the richer the government the poorer the people. but at least we'd all be "fairly" poor, (as you seem to like the word fair instead of equal).

the top 1% (-minus government sapsucking leeches) worked their asses off to get where they are. and yes, only 1% are willing to put that kind of work to get there, if you think thats unfair, tough luck!

Who wins when companies, Disney or CAT to name a couple, are allowed to replace their workers with imports who are paid less money and the court agreed with this arrangement.
Equal opportunities not equal outcomes. I just want to keep what I have worked for not pay for those who choose not to work.

@ozzyboy Who wins when companies, Disney or CAT to name a couple, are allowed to replace their workers with imports who are...

ozzyboy - I don't understand why we don't have workfare instead of welfare. Make them get out of bed stop having kids they can't afford and take a drug test to continue getting anything at all.

@LorraineTwevlehundredRaineTwelvehundred ozzyboy - I don't understand why we don't have workfare instead of welfare. Make them get out of bed stop having...

I agree completely. government (us) should only pay for two kids max. Want more, then you pay the bills for them.

@ozzyboy Who wins when companies, Disney or CAT to name a couple, are allowed to replace their workers with imports who are...

Replacing workers with cheaper imports is capitalism at work.
So is automation.

We're under 5% unemployment. People are working.

Opportunities are not in any way, shape or form equal.

You can keep what you have. As long as you don't get sick or lose your job or they collapse the economy.

@ozzyboy So you are saying that Trump is doing a good job with this unemployment issue?

He's doing OK. The tariffs might have some negative affect
He's a continuation of Obama who was a continuation of Bush.
The faces change the agenda remains very much the same. The concentration of wealth marches on.

@ozzyboy There's not much continuation with Trump and that is exactly the point of his election.

Not much continuation? Aside from being more blatantly corrupt and far more destructive the direction is the same.

@ozzyboy Please elaborate on this corruption you speak of.

Really? You need elaboration?

Where would you like to start? Wilbur Ross, Ben Carson, Manafort, Cohen, Flynn, Popadopolas or
the prince of corruption Scott Pruit? Or Gary Cohn, Mnuchin and the new White House branch office of Goldman Sachs.
Gary Cohn got a $350 million parting gift from GS.
I'm sure GS isn't expecting any favors. It was just a gift.

Or maybe go into China, ZTE and the half billion loan to Trump's investment property in the Philippines and Ivanka's 30 something Chinese trade names. Or the Saudis dumping money directly into Trump's pockets through his hotels.

It's interesting that you don't require elaboration on the destruction.

@urwutuis Really? You need elaboration? Where would you like to start? Wilbur Ross, Ben Carson, Manafort, Cohen, Flynn...

I guess it was overshadowed by Benghazi, the "broke" Clintons who mysteriously ended up with millions through their now defunct foundation to name a few.
You give me names but I am still wondering where your facts are on Trump's corruption.

@ozzyboy I guess it was overshadowed by Benghazi, the "broke" Clintons who mysteriously ended up with millions through their...

Riiight. The what about defense.
It's completely irrelevant but
OK What about Benghazi? 9 trials found nothing.
The Clintons are crooks?
Tell me something I don't already know.

Now I have to educate you on what's in the news almost every day and obvious to anyone with a double digit IQ?
How about Scot Pruitt spending $43,000 for a phone booth and $400,000 in travel expenses. Mnuchin using govt planes for vacation travel. Flynn taking $600,000 from Turkey, Manafort selling face time. Ivanka Trump getting 30+ registered trademarks in China
Trump helping ZTE after China put 500 million into his property investment in the Phillippines.

Come on, seriously? It's a fucking joke.

@urwutuis Riiight. The what about defense. It's completely irrelevant but OK What about Benghazi? 9 trials found nothing...

You don't have much on Trump, do you? I'm still waiting for something concrete and proven on him.
In the meantime Manafort is being jailed and strong armed for info on Trump while alleged child killers are let go with a slap on the hand. 11 children starved and mistreated but hey, that's ok because Trump is so bad
and that is all the left cares about.

@ozzyboy You don't have much on Trump, do you? I'm still waiting for something concrete and proven on him. In the meantime...

Right, it's not him just everyone around him.
Trump university wasn't really fraud.

Oh please. Don't pretend you care about children.
11 children starved so cut food stamps, school lunches, raise rents on the poor and separate them at the border.
We've been dropping bombs every day for 17 years and civilian casualties have doubled under Trump.
How many children is that?

Manafort belongs in jail. He's a crook.

Not liking Trump has nothing to do with bias. My opinion wouldn't change no matter what party he was with. It has to do with incompetence, Ignorance and narcissism with a heavy dose of nepotism and conflict of interest, sprinkled with racism and a 4th grade vocabulary, lying about virtually everything and simmered over FOX news.

@urwutuis Right, it's not him just everyone around him. Trump university wasn't really fraud. Oh please. Don't pretend you...

You need to stop saying Riight when you are so far left.
The CF was the ultimate in fraud.
You show your abject ignorance when you say I don't care about children - they are my life.
My property taxes are so oppressive just so the welfare, food stamps, school lunches and rents are paid. You have heard of the working poor haven't you?
Like it is said, Trump could find a cure for cancer and you would find fault that he didn't do it sooner.

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@2801782

The system is what allows BofA to pay no taxes. The system allows banks to counterfeit money and Wall St. to steal it. It allows bribery of politicians. It allows mass surveillance of citizens. It allows perpetual war, destruction of the environment, corporate theft, the largest wealth gap in the developed world and the largest prison/slave population and incarceration rate on the planet
It allows half the population to be in or near poverty and now we even have abject poverty. In the US? Third world here we come.

What's the problem Urwut?
STILL unable to find a job with virtually 0% unemployment?

Capitalism fails every time? Well, maybe if you don't consider;

Hong Kong
Singapore
New Zealand
Switzerland
Australia
Estonia
Canada
United Arab Emirates
Ireland
Chile
Taiwan
United Kingdom
Georgia
Luxembourg
The Netherlands
Lithuania
United States
Denmark
Sweden
Latvia
Mauritius
Iceland
South Korea
Finland
Norway

Even the Chinese government allows entrepreneurship as long as it is done with the permission of the government.

There is great disparity in income levels in the USA. But, everyone has the same opportunity as Bill Gates to become wealthy. Being pissed about guys like him having a lot of money is just sour grapes.

Capitalism is not about distributing wealth fairly. It's all about everyone having equal opportunity.

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@2801855

That is amazing. Your view of reality is so distorted you think only Trump supporters work for a living and everyone receiving assistance is lazy. You really are in the bubble.
I mean this is just incredible.
yet the likes of people like YOU who "feel" ENTITLED to have what everyone else has

Or should I say incredibly stupid.
Nobody gave me anything. I worked for it and I still work my 66 year old ass off, because I can, so you can take your "Ive had it so rough carrying the poor" victim card and stuff it.

The difference is I don't whine about how hard it was and I don't blame the poor. Why? Cause it's not their fault. Do you think people chose to be poor?

I think I should try to help since I have been fortunate enough to make it this far.
You'll spend billions killing people in the Middle East but won't cough up pocket change for fellow countrymen.
A lot of those people who can't come up with $500 are veterans and many are elderly who worked all their lives. Many had their pensions stolen by the corporate slime you support. 1 in 5 children is food insecure. In this country?
\ Yeah, it has equal opportunity written all over it.
How do you sleep?

You know who uses food stamps? Walmart employees. The largest employer in the US doesn't pay it's employees enough to survive.
Because the Walton's need another mansion so we subsidize them.

Forget about how you sleep when are you gonna wake up?

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@2802411

Give them more? Why so they can drop more bombs?Yeah, let's go into stupid.

Obama dropped more bombs than Bush. The idea that Obama was a liberal much less a socialist is patently absurd. It's something only conservatives can believe.

These are the same old failed talking points cons always use to deny reality.

According to a Koch bros recent study Single payer will save 2 trillion minimum and provide better care.
Censorship has already begun with the removal of net neutrality.
Trump's tax cuts and budget will add 2 trillion to debt
The increase alone in military budget would easily pay for tuition free college. How much do you think those 120 bombs a day we're dropping cost?
For what? So you can "feel" safe?
And apparently we can afford a space force.

Ignorant support?
You know who else doesn't like progressives?
The democratic party. Nancy and Chuck.
They might upset the apple cart and do something for the people they represent.
We sure wouldn't want anyone in govt who isn't taking corporate money would we? Not after all the trouble you went through to pass citizens united.
The establishment wouldn't like that.

You, like all cons, just refuse to see.

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@2802571

Okay fine I get it.
Whatever progressives say is bullshit and only conservatives speak the truth and are not affected by party propaganda. Totally objective and balanced.

Health care for all is just stupid
so is tuition free college.
How can we afford it when we have to drop 120 bombs a day on the Middle East and give the military 40% more than at the peak of the wars

I wouldn't want information to cloud the issue or get in the way of your rant.

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@2802805

Duh, no. What's it about?
Our great founding fathers thought "we the people" were the rich, white, male land owners.

James Madison said the role of govt was to protect the minority of the opulent from the majority and that's exactly what it does.

You think you have rights? You don't and you never did.
Free speech? Look at Alex Jones. Bear arms? Look at Katrina. Privacy? that's a laugh. A fair and speedy trial? Obama killed habeas corpus Right to assembly? with a permit.

You're a slave, you just don't know it. You're free range livestock on a tax farm just like me.

You can blame the govt but who do you think created the govt?
Who owns the govt?
The people?
If you believe that I have a bridge I'll let you have for a really good price.

The vast majority of people in this country are nothing that even resembles free. They're free to do what they're told and keep feeding the rich.
Do you think the military and all the militarized police are there to protect you?
They're there to protect the govt and it's owners FROM you if it comes to that.
Standing Rock was the perfect example.

They leave you alone as long as you're a good "citizen" and keep paying them.

You think you own your home? Check your deed. It doesn't say owner does it? Current occupant or something similar.
And I guarantee somebody else owns the mineral rights. If you discover gold on your property it's not yours.

It's clear you would rather kill people than help fellow Americans. It's also clear they have you convinced equal opportunity exists and everyone who get assistance is lazy and on drugs.
Even if that were true it would be a better investment than more military.

Now that your CIC has grudgingly walked back his military parade and wants to create a space force and give himself another tax cut after adding a trillion to the debt I'm sure you're thrilled

Other people's money?
You think you're the only one who pays taxes?
The level of your misinformation is truly stunning.

Here's a hint:
Over the last 40 years only one group has seen an increase in wealth. The top 10%. A 650% increase.
All others have stagnated or gone down.
Yeah, this is working.

It's you on the far right that are truly clueless.

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@2803606

That's your the best you could come up with? Really?
You guys crack me up.

Let's have a parade and build a space force.
You support a child in the WH and call people ignorant.
That's rich.

@urwutuis Less than 5% unemployment and 63% can't come up with $500 and that's success?

The unemployment number sounds like success.

The inability to come up with $500 bucks sounds more like a personal financial problem. Like, maybe priorities, spending habits, etc.

@Budwick The unemployment number sounds like success. The inability to come up with $500 bucks sounds more like a personal...

Everybody's working and half of them are poor. Some might say it's a success. They would be wrong but some might say that.
That's like Bush saying a woman who worked 3 jobs was great.
Oh, right. It's bad spending habits. You can't be serious.
Jeff Besos is worth 120 billion while his employees are on food stamps. 40% of the homeless have jobs.
You don't see a problem there? No flags go up?

@urwutuis Everybody's working and half of them are poor. Some might say it's a success. They would be wrong but some might...

Sure I see problems in your scenarios.
I just don't think that the solution is for you and I to pony up money we worked for to pay for their shortfall.

People make a lot of decisions in life. Some good some bad. Often times a series of bad decisions puts people in difficult situations. Sometimes people are born into bad situations too.

In some selected cases I may / and have jumped in to help. My choice.

Government collecting money to redistribute to others is not a solution. There's no incentive for a person to get themselves out of the situation if the Nanny State simply throws 'em a bone.

Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish, and he will feed himself and his family everyday.

It really sounds to me like you are simply jealous of people that have more than you. That will always be the case Urwut. No matter what kind of economy you force down peoples throats.

@Budwick Sure I see problems in your scenarios. I just don't think that the solution is for you and I to pony up money we...

They aren't my scenarios. They're reality.

If govt doesn't do it it won't be done. We'll be a 2 class society without the possibility of anything resembling democracy (like now but worse) and freedom will only exist for the handful at the top.

"Government collecting money to redistribute to others is not a solution."
How about govt collecting money to put people to work at decent paying jobs since the private sector won't? Jobs that benefit everyone not just 1%

Why are you opposed to helping fellow countrymen but have no problem dropping 120 bombs a day? And for what? We should be spending that money here not throwing it away killing people.

The bank bail outs (the nanny state) would have paid off every mortgage in the country and still have enough left over to house the homeless. Instead it went to bonuses for the people who made millions crashing the economy in the first place.

Three people now own as much as the bottom 90%
That doesn't strike you as a bit out of line?
Now Trump's talking about another tax cut for him and his buddies. Haven't you figured out yet that trickle down is a lie?

Oh, here we go again with that jealousy bullshit. You just can't imagine anyone doing anything that wasn't for direct personal gain.
The last time I was jealous was 1968. It's not about me.
You'll have to find a new dig.

@urwutuis They aren't my scenarios. They're reality. If govt doesn't do it it won't be done. We'll be a 2 class society...

If not jealousy, then what?
Why does it matter that some people make more money than others?

@Budwick If not jealousy, then what? Why does it matter that some people make more money than others?

It's not that they make more it's how much more they make for contributing nothing of real value.

When there are people who get a lot of money from things they don't produce it means there are people who must produce a lot of things for money they don't get.
The most oppressed group in all of human history is labor. The people who work in the mill should own the mill.

@urwutuis It's not that they make more it's how much more they make for contributing nothing of real value. When there are...

The mill wouldn't exist had the owner not built it. The owner contributed a lot of value! The mill itself, opportunities to make a living for those that work there, a good product for consumers, stability and growth for the community.

The people are free to build their own mill. They can contribute all those things too.

Too Socialist. Public education is largely to blame. People should learn more job skills in school.

@JerryHendrickson Too Socialist. Public education is largely to blame. People should learn more job skills in school.

Being independent and financially responsible, productive members of society should be the main focus of public education
.

@JerryHendrickson Being independent and financially responsible, productive members of society should be the main focus of public...

Jerry I agree with you here. Most of the people who can't save 500 bucks are wasting money somehow - butts - beer eating out? When you don't have much money you should be saving every single cent you can. But in my observations, they spend it faster than they get it. stupid people!

@JerryHendrickson Being independent and financially responsible, productive members of society should be the main focus of public...

That's the idea of school. Indoctrination.

They teach just enough to run the machinery and process the paperwork while you learn to be just like everyone else and do what you're told.

It's kind of a deceptive claim you made there. It has been reported that 63% of Americans don't have enough savings to cover a $500 surprise bill, but that doesn't mean they necessarily lack the capacity to cover it, it's just that most would use credit instead of savings.

Free market capitalism is the most successful economic system yet developed because it is based on human nature, and it incentivizes the alignment of money and talent.

If you have money, it is in your best interest to find the most talented businessmen to invest in. If you are more talented in business than the next person, none of your superficial attributes like gender or ethnicity matter, you'll find investors because it's in their own best interests to invest in your talent.

And it's a completely voluntary process, neither side is forced to participate. If you have money, you don't have to invest it, you can spend it on whatever you like, but you'd be wise to invest it. And if you're forming a business, you don't need to seek investors, but you have that option, and if you take it, it can give you the financial power to realize your vision when that wouldn't otherwise be possible. Those who purchase your products or services do so voluntarily too, if they like your competitor better, they can buy from them instead.

The free market is also based in reality. Sure there are a million theories, but the proof is in the pudding, a business either makes money or it doesn't. Winners and losers aren't picked by any one person or small group of people, they're picked by the market, which is billions of people. If people want what you're selling and you can make a profit selling it, you're doing well. If people don't want what you're selling and/or you can't make a profit selling it, you move on to something else.

@Maze Free market capitalism is the most successful economic system yet developed because it is based on human nature...

Yeah, I know how the system is supposed to work.
You left out a few pieces of the puzzle.
In order for a market economy to work it requires well educated consumers making rational choices. Advertising ensures we have neither.

Wall St is nothing but a Ponzi scheme that contributes nothing of value to the society it feeds on.
The capital economy is based on cyclical consumption and waste. It's the exploitation of resources (including human resources) to exhaustion or collapse for short term gain regardless of the effects on society, the economy or the environment. External costs are left for society to deal with and are tallied in lives as well as dollars.

There isn't a single ecosystem on the planet that is not in a serious state of decline. It's killing us all and they know it.

@urwutuis Yeah, I know how the system is supposed to work. You left out a few pieces of the puzzle. In order for a market...

If you think socialism is any better for the environment than capitalism, look at what the Soviets did, socialism is worse. Why? Mainly because nobody's allowed to bitch about it, the left just does what they want and silences anyone who disagrees. The other reason is innovation, there's no real incentive to innovate under socialism, so cleaner, more efficient technologies are never developed.

@Maze If you think socialism is any better for the environment than capitalism, look at what the Soviets did, socialism...

The Soviets were not socialists they were state capitalists.
Capitalism kills innovation and very little, if any, innovation is motivated by money.
Innovation would happen no matter what. Innovation doesn't come from a desire for wealth.
How much innovation has been squashed in the name of profit?
If you want real innovation open source.

Efficient? If there's anything Capitalism is not it's efficient.
Is it efficient to ship clothes from China?
Is planned obsolescence efficient?
Is competition efficient?
Capitalism is the antithesis of efficiency.
Scarcity is what drives it.

That's why there's a new IPhone every year instead of one that can be upgraded. That's why cars don't last 50 years and get 100 mpg. It's not because they can't make them.
That's also why Trump killed emission standards.
Dirty air, cars that break down and polluted water are good for business and climate change is really good for business.

@urwutuis The Soviets were not socialists they were state capitalists. Capitalism kills innovation and very little, if any...

Yeah yeah, nobody's a real socialist. Soviet socialists, National Socialists, (((not socialists))), I know.

You complain that capitalism doesn't promote innovation, then complain that there's a new iPhone every year. Do you think there would even BE smartphones if we were under socialism? I know there are socialist countries, (not real socialists of course) but I'm not aware of any socialist-produced phones.

As for open source, how's Ubuntu phone OS doing these days? It's open source, so it must be far more advanced than iOS or Android. Right?

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