Can Anyone Explain how Trump is Helping the Working Class?

It never ceases to amaze me when I hear Trumpsters claim Trump is fighting for the working class. You know, the people who actually produce the goods and services.
His latest boost for working people is to deny a meager 2.1% raise for 2 million federal employees scheduled to occur next year claiming the agencies can't afford it. Meanwhile he's considering an executive order (bypassing congress)to give another 100 billion dollar gift to the 1% by tying capital gains tax to inflation. THAT we can afford. Just like we can afford to drop 120 bombs a day in the Middle East, a 717 billion dollar increase in already bloated military spending (a.k.a. corporate welfare), a military parade (what every American wants), major tax cuts for the rich and corporations (while giving bread crumbs to the middle class) and weekly 3 million dollar golf trips (much of which goes into Trump's pockets) but we can't afford tuition free college. Why isn't anyone asking how this new gift to the rich will be paid for like they ask about single payer health care (which actually saves 2 trillion)? It seems the only things we can't afford are things that would help working Americans. He brags about how the market is booming which doesn't do shit for average Americans but expands the wealth gap to even more ridiculous levels and how great the economy is doing with 4% growth leaving out that the growth has been largely due to massive increases in middle class debt and not growth in production. He touts unemployment figures but doesn't mention that even though most people are working more than half the country is in or near poverty. His insane tariffs are another joke which are paid by increases in consumer costs and not paid by importers. We also seem to be able to afford another 12 billion in subsidies to corporate farms hurt (reduced profit) by those same tariffs. Trump's solution to a problem he created. So I'd like Trumpsters to explain how Trump is helping the working class.

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@2807937

Very well put. Glad to see you back.

@2807937

Marketable services are not the only services necessary. Who protects you from bad meat? Who checks the water? Who prevents (to a degree) false advertising?

Who provides for the existence of the market.

You're right, wages actually have gone up. They're 2.7% higher than last year. Inflation was 2.9%.
Bonuses? They touted $1000 but neglected to mention you had to be there 20 years to get it. Most were less than $100.

More people are working and poverty is rising.
That's not Trump's fault it's systemic but the development you see is the result of adding 2 trillion to the debt and it won't bring manufacturing back as long as cheaper labor is available elsewhere.
Companies didn't leave because of high taxes. That was RW bullshit.

Tax cuts for corporations do not stimulate growth anywhere but the market which is manufactured growth and has nothing to do with productivity. It also does nothing for the middle class.

My taxes have gone up and I know I'm not alone while 1% taxes went way down.
Yours will go up too in a few years while corporate tax cuts are permanent.

The cuts to the middle were an appeasement to get you to buy the package. Capital gains are money for nothing and the real drain on the economy. Not govt services

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@2808077

The vast majority of government employees do not provide necessary services for the people.
That depends largely on what you consider necessary services. If you think the Army, Navy AF, FBI, Homeland Security, FDA et al. aren't necessary your statement would be accurate.

The EPA doesn't hold a candle to all the institutions you favor.
The US military is the most wasteful and destructive organization on the planet. So Trump gave them another $717 billion because you don't feel safe only spending more than the rest of the world combined.

Yes, I know people who got screwed in the crash just as bad or worse.
That's what capitalism does. Trump didn't invent it, he just supercharged it.

Your take on Trump, the economy, and the necessity of massive bureaucracy.
Where do you get massive bureaucracy from?
You all read from the same playbook.

Of course there are people doing better. There just aren't many of them and the boost in the economy is yet another debt bubble.

In the one year period, 2016 to 2017 the pay of CEO's in the top 350 companies rose 17.6%. The pay of their employees in the same period rose 0.003%.
Tell me this is a working system.

You mean my opinions aren't universal? Wow. Who knew?

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@2808261

I don't really know what it is like in the Americas, nor do I particularly have any great investment in caring. What I do have to say although is that reading these two arguments and using them as my only reference I would say Boz takes the winners ticket on that one. Which of course, is only an uninformed opinion at best :)

@2808261

I'm fully aware of how the monetary system works and the bullshit on which it's based, however, it's not relevant to the discussion at hand.

Call it whatever you like, really existing Capitalism created it.
Corporatism a.k.a. Fascism has been the goal since WW1.

If actual Capitalism existed it would collapse in a heartbeat.

Corporations are doing their job under capitalism. Exploit resources, including "human resources", to exhaustion or collapse to maximize profit regardless of the affects on society, the economy or the environment.
According to James Madison
The role of govt is to protect the minority of the opulent from the majority.

Speaking of assumptions, my version of massive govt. doesn't exist.

@2808261

Nobody is forcing you to reply and your petty insults say more about you than they do about me.

Capitalism is a natural process? Yeah, so is slavery.
Who gave you that tidbit of misinformation?
The same place you got the massive govt fantasy?
I'm not the only one making assumptions

The natural process is capitalism to fascism. It's the only result capitalism is capable of producing.
Well, other than moral decay and environmental destruction.
It's all around you yet you refuse to see.
If you want to know where capitalism leads just look around because it goes here every time. Massive inequality and unemployment or underemployment is more like it.

Capitalism rewards greed and corruption. It's based on exploitation. What do you expect?

The monetary system creates debt. The market creates bubbles and crashes.
I told you before. I know how it works. I know debt is money. I know the interest owed on Nat debt doesn't exist. i know about fractional reserve, I know banks are counterfeiters. I know it's all bullshit. I've known it for 50 years

Actual or "pure" Capitalism ? No it doesn't exist. That would require the impossible. Maybe if you guys read Adam Smith instead of just quoting him you'd know it requires well informed consumers making rational choices and without govt regulation the market wouldn't last a day.
The closest thing to a pure capitalist economy is better known as the third world. I think the current rate is 60 hrs a week for $37 a month.
That's if you don't burn in a fire with the doors locked.

None of which explains how Trump has helped the middle class.
Unless you plan to go with that "war is less likely" drivel

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@2809077

"You get a bug up your butt about something, come on to put up a single bitch post and then you'll disappear until you get another rash you want to cry over"

It's a mistake to assume your insults are effective or that they don't exist.

Supporting an unsustainable system that rewards greed and corruption while stifling innovation and progress and destroying the environment is idiotic.

The notion that people are inherently greedy is an establishment lie.
Manufactured scarcity and competition create greed and profit driven institutions are the most destructive force know to man.
But that's not the issue.

"Many people in the "middle class", which spans a wide income range, have indeed been helped by Trump's policies,"as I and others have already explained.

Gee, does "middle class" really span a wide income range? Go figure.

You have only stated that they did help and explained nothing. You haven't even stated which policies supposedly helped.

How do you defend all of Trump's obvious lies?
Call it fake news? or his derisive and divisive remarks or promotion of violence or total ignorance, with no desire to learn. of protocol, diplomacy or even common decency? How do you put up with incoherent speeches, constant ego rallies and self praise?
How about his glowing praise for dictators and contempt of our allies?
The ridiculous conspiracy theories, his "well oiled machine" White House where he's already had to replace 61% of the parts.
"I get the best people"
and a slime like Rudy Giuliani is the only attorney that will work for him.

How about the claims that the president is above the law?
How do you square that circle?

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@2809451

Oh really. Just a fact?
Now I know why you like Trump
You're as big a liar as he is.
It's why you try to put words in my mouth.
It's a pitiful tactic and debating liars is tiresome.

You don't defend him when he's wrong?
Of all your inane remarks that is the most revealing.

Let me know when you figure out what Trump has done for the working class.

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@2809544

And I covered those things
Unemployment is down but the jobs are shit. Everyone is working and poverty is rising. That's help?
Now people are broke AND exhausted.
The bull market doesn't do shit for the working class
It may make a few retirees happy. Does squat for workers.

Then there are his trade wars which raise prices on everything so what little help there may have been is erased. Gas prices are through the roof, food prices are rising and real wages are down
Plus he throws another 12B at factory farms "hurt" by his idiotic tariffs. We are subsidizing profit.
The guy doesn't even know what a trade deficit is. He thinks it's money we lost.

And now his main concern is finding out who wrote that op-ed. Because that's really important.

Trump is a train wreck.

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@2809798

Walmart's wage increase was at the same time closing hundreds of stores.
Judging the economy by what's happening in your neighborhood is like denying global warming because it's snowing.

The market doesn't help working people pay the bills and retirees are just that. Retired !!!

What do you agree with that he does or has done?

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@2810031
  • The TPP was alreadey dead
  • Disasters are certainly good for GDP and it puts people to work. Is that a good thing?
    Like I said GDP is not a good metric to measure success.
  • I'd be interested in which agencies but it sounds good
  • Individual mandate sucked. so I would see this as good
  • The tax cuts were just another rip off of the middle class that transfers wealth to the top. My taxes went up.
  • Deregulation has always cracked me up. Where did the notion that all regulation is bad come from? You don't suppose it was corporations do you? The ones that are making record profits and claim they're being crushed by regulation?
  • Locking up children is good?
  • SCOTUS picks suck
  • Don't know
  • What about N.Korea?
  • How is he cracking down? By giving more money to ICE?
  • Yeah, cut WH grow military. Space force. Really?
  • Are NATO allies paying more?
  • The economy? Isn't that where this started?

Real wages haven't even kept up with inflation.
More people are working yet poverty is rising.
What does that tell you?

Maybe instead of dropping 100 bombs a day, which we always have money for, we should be looking at student debt or maybe even the climate but we know that won't happen. Billions for bombs, zip for Americans.

He deregulated the banks. Wasn't that what got us into the last recession? Or what it should be called: the biggest land grab in human history.

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@2808935

Oh right. Because you're the only one whose taxes go to things you don't support.

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@2807863

You can believe whatever you like but less chance of war as an aid to the working class is inane.

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@2807938

Saying that somehow helps the middle class is ridiculous. Do workers get a raise or tax cuts?
It's like saying polio vaccine helps the middle class.

Plus the idea of less chance of war under Trump is fantasy, in fact, most, if not all, military experts say war is more likely under Trump.

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@2808562

Yes it's the working class and poor that go to war but they don't pull people out of the general public. They're already in the military.
Many are there because they can't find a decent job or can't afford college so people are being forced to kill for an education.
And I'm the one bordering on insanity???

@2807863

Yeah, NK is sooooooooooooo scared of Trump. They thumbed their nose at the United States and have formed an allegiance with SK and China while leaving America out of the loop.

It doesn't do much good to create jobs with wages that can't keep up with the increasing costs of LIVING!

Uh, John, over 60% of America think Trump is doing a lousy job.

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@2808094

NK did not honor their part as most of us knew they wouldn't.

On here? John that is hardly a scientific poll.

I don't think he will get another term for if the Dems take control of the house ( and it is strong given they will) then the investigations into collusion will go ahead full steam.

Trump had a very bad month and the walls are closing in.

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@2808109

John, why do you always have to get nasty? Just asking. This is an OPINION site, remember?

Anyway, nastiness aside, the people who agree with you on this site are Republican Conservatives. Simple enough. Most Americans are in the middle.

NK is not dismantling their Nuclear program either, and they never will.

@AliceD Where did JD get nasty?

Really Alice?
"you want more people out of work, that's very un American"

I don't recall ever saying that.

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@2809097

You said it to me John.

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@2808331

I am bias?!

Who the hell isn't?!

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@2809096

Un huh, now tell me another funny.

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@2810454

Well try being funnier next time and maybe I will get the joke.

@2809096

You are one of the worst offenders.

I don't feel as oppressed as I did in the last administration with no hope for the future.
I just got a note from my electric supplier saying that the corporate saving they got has been passed down and reflected on my electric bill. True. Now I have to call the cable company and ask for a reduction or I will be cutting the cable.

@ozzyboy I don't feel as oppressed as I did in the last administration with no hope for the future. I just got a note from...

I'm glad you feel better and are seeing some return although it's interesting the debt doesn't seem to matter so much now.

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@2807940

Gronk, nobody said anything about Trump being the next Hitler, at least not on this thread, so please stop trying to deflect.

Trump inherited a growing economy from Obama and has still managed to screw it up.

"The increase" you ignorantly speak of is very meager at the very least and can not possibly compensate for the growing costs of LIVING!

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@2808677

Really? And how old is Trump? 38?

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@2810532

This Democrat rarely agreed with John McCain on anything political, but has always thought he was a class act.

And as far as nasty campaigns towards McCain goes, George Bush, with the help of Rove ran one of the nastiest.

But isn't it funny that McCain still wanted Obama and Bush to speak at his funeral while he ordered for Trump to be shot on sight if he came within 100 feet of it?

@dru18 Really? And how old is Trump? 38?

Early 70s, not late 70s or 80s.

And he hasn't been re-elected... yet. hello smilie

@Thinkerbell Early 70s, not late 70s or 80s. And he hasn't been re-elected... yet.

And whose in their late seventies that the Democrats have nominated for president?

@dru18 And whose in their late seventies that the Democrats have nominated for president?

Ran for nomination, not elected.

The Democratic gerontocracy is in the House and Senate, as is its dementocracy.   hehe smilie

@Thinkerbell Ran for nomination, not elected. The Democratic gerontocracy is in the House and Senate, as is its dementocracy...

And once again who was in their late seventies and ran for the presidential nomination on the Democrat side?

Since Gronk and I were talking about Trump I think we pretty much were talking about people who ran for president, not the House or Senate.

But even if you came up with names, so what. We are the only country who gets hung up with age, while most of Europe reveres older people.

@dru18 And once again who was in their late seventies and ran for the presidential nomination on the Democrat side?...

Bernie Sanders.

How quickly they forget...

And Gronk said, "... yet you freakin' liberals and RINOS keep on keep on re-electing the ELDERLY lifer politicians who are in their late 70's and mid 80's to represent you all, smh."

Try to read with at least a modicum of comprehension, dru. hehe smilie

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@2808541

That took Obama nearly eight years!?

You do realize that the economy in this country has been growing at a steady rate since 2009?

You do realize that Obama inherited one of the worst recessions in history?

You do realize that you don't know what you are talking about?

There is nothing to explain, he's isn't helping anyone except himself and his family. He inherited a good economy from Obama and now he is taking credit for it. The tariffs are hurting our farmers and soon the auto industry will be feeling the pinch which will mean higher prices for cars, etc. Grocery prices are out of control. Sure there are jobs, but they don't pay much so some folks have to have two jobs just to survive.

The national debt is out of control, something the Republicans were always dissing Obama for, and now they don't seem to care how high it goes.... He spends millions traveling back and forth to play golf, something he said he would never do, because he would be too busy working at the White House. The only thing he does at the White House is tweet his hateful comments to people who don't agree with him. Snatches babies out of the arms of their parents....how low is that.

Plus the Mueller investigation has got him rattled, if he's so innocent why doesn't he sit down with Mueller, tell the truth and get it over with. He can't do that because he's as guilty as sin.

He's an embarassement and a disgrace to all Americans.

I am still just waiting for trump to make things right. Nothing so far has helped me in my daily life.

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@2807941

Why do you always want to make it about me? Is that all you've got?
Do you have a rational argument or do you just want to keep talkin' smack?
You all read from the same playbook.

Oh, and I'm quite happy with the choices I've made but thank you for your concern.

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@2811676

Another straw man?
Gimme a break.

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@2813566

And, again, the straw man.

Sure they're afraid of Trump. So is England, France, Germany and everyone else on the planet outside his base of half wits.

He's vindictive, petty, thin skinned, impulsive, and a habitual liar with his finger on the button.
And he's not very bright.
Anyone that doesn't give pause to is a fool.

You think it's good NK, China and Iran are afraid of what Trump will do?
It's good that the world will never trust the US to honor its agreements?
That's how wars start but you lunatics on the right love that strong arm authoritarian rule. Someone who will throw down on a moments notice before the facts are known.
Nervous people with nukes. Yeah, that's the path we want to take.

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@2807945

It's not surprising but it is a crack up that you actually buy into that propaganda.
Divisive right wing bullshit must be an acquired taste.

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@2808426

Oh right. You're the only ones with morals and integrity yet you support someone with a complete lack of morals and zero integrity.

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@2809344

You're as clueless as Trump Where did you get the idea that I have anything to do with the democratic party?
They're almost as fucked up as republicans

I'm more concerned about what you Trumpsters will do when they invoke the 25th than any blue wave bullshit.

Now Trump wants Sessions to investigate who wrote the op-ed that puts the lie to his well oiled machine bullshit.
Because that's really important.
You know, that well oiled machine that has already had to replace 61% of its parts.
I guess among all the other things he doesn't know he doesn't know there has to be a suspected crime.
As clueless as that is
He actually said "they're robbing medicare to pay for socialism" but you probably buy that ridiculous bullshit too. What's next? They're robbing SS to pay for socialism?

None of which explains how he has helped the middle class.

@urwutuis You're as clueless as Trump Where did you get the idea that I have anything to do with the democratic party? ...

Please don't sit on your hands, November. Even if you don't like the Democrats please think BLUE. It will be our only chance to put a check on that maniac.

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@2810166

More RW rhetorical bullshit and baseless beliefs?
It's no wonder you support somebody who wants military parades and a space force.
Trumpsters love that authoritarian bullshit even if it comes from a coward who has to fire people by tweet.

And who has rallies AFTER they're in office? Childish megalomaniacs whose feelings have been hurt.
He's such a pussy
You probably think it's OK for him to pardon himself although I'm sure he's done nothing wrong. He said so
He just wants to know because he's curious.
And his mindless minions actually buy it.

Mind boggling.

.

Sure! Any one can do that. Only a fool wouldn't understand.

Anonymous