Can Someone Explain To Me How Obama's Formula For Economic Disaster Could Possibly Be Attributed To Trumps Obvious Economic Victory?

Seriously, I got nuthin. I can't even make fun of it - it's so stupid on the face of it.

Image for post Can Someone Explain To Me How Obama's Formula For Economic Disaster Could Possibly Be Attributed To Trumps Obvious Economic Victory?
0% Well, for starters, there were no jobs to be had when Obama was president 100% Other
Budwicks avatar Money & Economics
Share
5 65

Democrats have no ability to feel shame, so they can lie endlessly I guess.

@urwutuis You mean like Trump?

No, not at all.

I don't understand this constant drum about Trump lies. I read an article quoting Trump saying -

“After years of federal contracts going to foreign bidders, we are ensuring that government agencies enforce “Buy American” rules and give preference to American companies — and that American companies hire American workers.”

The author then claims this to be a lie, because Trump businesses have purchased foreign goods. That's BS and all the crap you guys claim as lies, are not.

A lie is more like hiring someone to make up an outrageous story - complete fiction then write it in the format of an investigative report. Then, 'leak' the made up report to the press. Then use the made up report and uncorroborated new reports made from the leaks as 'strong evidence' of wrong doing to obtain FISA warrants!

Or, a lie is like if a Secretary of State ignores pleas for additional security in a place, let's say like Benghazi. And ignores reports of growing unrest in the same place. Then, when the ambassador and several other Americans are horrifically murdered by terrorists, fail to send back up to help. THEN, lie to the American people about what really happened, and blame it on some lame ass video!

Those last two? THOSE are lies.

@Budwick No, not at all. I don't understand this constant drum about Trump lies. I read an article quoting Trump saying -...

Or if Donald Trump calls into talk shows pretending to be John Barron to pump up some scheme Donald Trump is attempting.

@Flrdsgns Or if Donald Trump calls into talk shows pretending to be John Barron to pump up some scheme Donald Trump is attempting.

And, you believe this is something that actually happened?

Does the left have their own Alex Jones?

@Budwick And, you believe this is something that actually happened? Does the left have their own Alex Jones?

I know Bud, unless it comes over Fox News or Rush says it, you don't believe any actual recorded or filmed events of trump. smh

@Budwick Flanders! Are you there? I'm waiting to be edumacated!

If you haven't heard any of the tapes of trump calling into news or talk shows and promoting himself, I guess you could google it. I've heard a few incidents and read some articles about it, and have no interest in looking it up again just to give you proof. If you are actually interested, you can look it up yourself.

16 investigations into Benghazi, and nothing criminal found. If you have proof there was a crime, or that someone lied, please prove it, or send your proof to Trey Goudy, since he is the one who spends millions investigating over and over again.

@Flrdsgns If you haven't heard any of the tapes of trump calling into news or talk shows and promoting himself, I guess you...

The proof of lies regarding Benghazi is common knowledge.
Apparently lying to the public isn't a crime.
And the issue was lies - not crimes.
Please, don't try to change the 'rules' in the middle of the game. That's not criminal either - but really weakens your position and is tacky. (Oh, that's right, you're a dem - tacky - 1. not having or exhibiting good taste:)

@Budwick No, not at all. I don't understand this constant drum about Trump lies. I read an article quoting Trump saying -...

, and he had the biggest inauguration crowd and it didn't rain, Obama tapped his phone, his were the biggest tax cuts ever and didn't benefit him, only 16 people died in Puerto Rico, 3 million illegals voted in California, spy-gate.
Everyone is lying except Trump.

Benghazi? Really?
9 trials and you're still harping on Benghazi?
Unbelievable.
Aside from being totally irrelevant it's another pizza-gate.

@urwutuis and he had the biggest inauguration crowd and it didn't rain, Obama tapped his phone, his were the biggest tax...

Biggest inauguration crowd and it didn't rain? THAT is your reason for wanting to impeach Trump?

The tax cut was / is significant. I'm sure you have some new math trick to illustrate how Obama's tax increases actually cut taxes more. Whether it benefits Trump or not, I wouldn't know. It was targeted to the middle class. Are you saying there was no tax cut?

As far as deaths in Puerto Rico goes, blame who ever told Trump that 16 died when he was there. You might want to get some detail from the idiots that made up number in the thousands, 3K I think. It was an estimate made from comparing the year before deaths in a time period and comparing to recent numbers and accounting for the difference as hurricane related. All BS.

There were NO Benghazi trials. [At least with Hillary as defendant.] Several congressional hearings. And information leaking and being uncovered consistently, as well as the reported facts all indicate that Hillary and Obama did those people wrong and lied to all of us.

@Budwick Biggest inauguration crowd and it didn't rain? THAT is your reason for wanting to impeach Trump? The tax cut was...

Who said I wanted to impeach Trump? I don't want him impeached.

The PR death numbers came from George Washington University's initial report.
The original count of 68 were direct deaths.
Indirect deaths count too. The only way to estimate storm deaths is by comparison to prior years.

83% of tax cuts went to 10% of the population.
My taxes went up.
Whatever meager gains were seen will be eaten up by trade wars

reported facts all indicate that Hillary and Obama did those people wrong and lied to all of us.
Aside from being irrelevant.
The hearings (not trials) came to a somewhat different conclusion.

This user has deactivated their account.
@2809900

You realize Obama cut taxes and made the Bush tax cuts permanent, right?

This user has deactivated their account.
@2809999

Yeah, and what became of that?
Obamacare, passed without public option, is a republican plan as was the carbon tax.

Why don't you ever look things up, Budwick, before shooting off your mouth? Then you would see, (as most have) that jobs added, has been on the uptick since 2009.

Trump has added trillions to the deficit for one huge lopsided tax cut, not to mention 12 billion to the farmers, to undo a problem HE created.

A billion here, a trillion there, here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

@dru18 Why don't you ever look things up, Budwick, before shooting off your mouth? Then you would see, (as most have) that...

June 2016 town hall event in Indiana when Obama was asked about Trump’s promise to kick-start manufacturing jobs in the country.

“Well, how exactly are you going to do that? What exactly are you going to do? There’s no answer to it,” Obama said.

“He just says, ‘Well, I’m going to negotiate a better deal.’ Well, what, how exactly are you going to negotiate that? What magic wand do you have? And usually the answer is, he doesn’t have an answer,” Obama continued.

Obama - June 2016

Then, trump was elected and he waived his magic wand.

@Budwick June 2016 town hall event in Indiana when Obama was asked about Trump’s promise to kick-start manufacturing jobs...

Obama could think of no way
To negotiate deals that would pay
American workers
Instead of the shirkers
That make up the Dem base today.

@Budwick June 2016 town hall event in Indiana when Obama was asked about Trump’s promise to kick-start manufacturing jobs...

No, he didn't, Budwick, the manufacturing jobs are not returning.

He created that Frankenstein tax cut bill with the "promise" that companies would take the money and reinvest in the workers through higher wages and the creation of more jobs, and of course they DIDN'T.

@dru18 https://www.technologyreview.co...t-coming-back/

That article was written a week after Trump was elected. He hadn't even taken office yet. Like you the article is pure speculation.

The article Think cited is from earlier this summer. It talks about stuff that actually happened.

Dru, you are embarrassing yourself. Please, stop.

@Budwick That article was written a week after Trump was elected. He hadn't even taken office yet. Like you the article is...

OMG!! The article reflected many years! The point was, that the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. Trump made a promise that is not based in reality. Technology and outsourcing are here to stay.

Learn how to connect the dots, Budwick.

@dru18 OMG!! The article reflected many years! The point was, that the manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. Trump made a...

Dru,

I excel at dot connecting.
I MAJORED in dot connection.
Image in content

And MY point was that your information is old and the manufacturing jobs are already coming back.

@Budwick Dru, I excel at dot connecting. I MAJORED in dot...

lmao! NO, THEY, ARE, NOT.

There is no way that any person behind a large manufacturing corporation is going to blow off slave wages and cheaper robotics.

@Budwick That article was written a week after Trump was elected. He hadn't even taken office yet. Like you the article is...

Liberals are incapable of embarrassment, Bud.

That's part of being liberal.

Maybe it shuts down the embarrassment gene.
At the very least, it hampers the logical thinking genes. hehe smilie

https://www.sciencedaily.com/re...1027161452.htm

@dru18 No, they are not. https://www.technologyreview.co...t-coming-back/

I notice the 30-year trend they referenced in the article conveniently stops in 2014. hehe smilie

@Thinkerbell I notice the 30-year trend they referenced in the article conveniently stops in 2014.

Not coming back, Stinker. There is no way technology and cheap labor are taking a back seat.

@dru18 Not coming back, Stinker. There is no way technology and cheap labor are taking a back seat.

You know how you attribute the soaring economy to Obama?

Maybe you could avoid the embarrassment of being 110% wrong by making up some BS story about how Obama brought the manufacturing back somehow.

@dru18 Not coming back, Stinker. There is no way technology and cheap labor are taking a back seat.

I agree that it's not going to come back to what it was 30 years ago.

But I also notice that neither you nor the Technology Review had any comment on the article I referenced, which listed a total of about 70,000 jobs that have come back.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/...rica/36438051/

Has anyone here even bothered to look at a chart?
Apparently not.
Image in content
Image in content

And what happened to all the debt hawks?

@urwutuis Has anyone here even bothered to look at a chart? Apparently...

The chart clearly shows the anemic 2%/annum GDP growth under Obama, falling steadily further and further behind the 3% historical trendline. A 4% catch-up rate began only with Trump, for which Obama and the Democrats are now trying to take credit. hehe smilie

And what happened to the debt hawks?
They became Democrats, of course.

("My deficit doesn't matter, your deficit is bad.")

https://www.politico.com/magazi...ut-them-216946

@Thinkerbell The chart clearly shows the anemic 2%/annum GDP growth under Obama, falling steadily further and further behind the...

And what? Your going to call a major change based on one quarter? There were quarters with 4% growth under Obama too. It doesn't mean shit. GDP is a stupid way to judge how well the country is doing. It would be a boost to GDP if we had more sick people and more debt. A few more disasters would help too. So would more war.

What is obvious to most is the trend.

They didn't become democrats they just showed their true colors . . . again.
Now let's build a space force because we need more military.
Then we can privatize war.

@urwutuis And what? Your going to call a major change based on one quarter? There were quarters with 4% growth under Obama...

"There were quarters with 4% growth under Obama too. It doesn't mean shit."

And there were quarters of negative growth with Obama. What DOES have meaning is that under Obama, the average GDP growth rate was well under the 3% average since the post WW2 period.

"GDP is a stupid way to judge how well the country is doing. It would be a boost to GDP if we had more sick people and more debt. A few more disasters would help too. So would more war."

OK, let's put your assertion to the test. According to you, wars should show up as a jump in GDP, yet the chart you yourself posted shows no evidence of that since 1950. War or peace, the trend has been a steady 3%, within the usual boom/recession fluctuations. Until 2008-2016, that is. Then there was a significant drop to 2%, even though we had at least the average war level going on in Afghanistan (the 'good' war, according to Obama).

The only part of the chart that even comes close to bearing out your assertion is the post WW2 years, 1945-50, when war production stopped and industries were retooling to resume consumer production, such as private automobiles.

@Thinkerbell "There were quarters with 4% growth under Obama too. It doesn't mean shit." And there were quarters of negative...

Negative growth? That's not even possible.
Peace? When did that happen? We have been at war continuously since 1950 with a brief respite under Carter and even then military budgets increased every year as did weapon sales.
You do remember we had a crash in '08, right?
And regardless of GDP growth wages remain stagnant since the 70s.

So where is the Trump boom?

@urwutuis Negative growth? That's not even possible. Peace? When did that happen? We have been at war continuously since 1950...

"Negative growth? That's not even possible."

For your edification:
https://www.investopedia.com/te...ive-growth.asp

"We have been at war continuously since 1950 with a brief respite under Carter and even then military budgets increased every year as did weapon sales."

Yeah, right, if you count (for example) Reagan's proxy war against the Sandinistas the same as Korea or Viet Nam.

As for military budgets, the trend, as a percentage of GDP, since 1960 (when military spending was over 10% of GDP) has generally been DOWN (to about 5% today).

For your further edification:
Image in content
https://www.usgovernmentspendin...fense_spending

"And regardless of GDP growth wages remain stagnant since the 70s."

Oh, really? Not overall salaries and wages.
Image in content

https://tradingeconomics.com/un...es/wage-growth

"So where is the Trump boom?"

I guess you haven't looked at the stock market or unemployment figures lately.

@Thinkerbell "Negative growth? That's not even possible." For your...

Negative growth is double speak. Like building down.
They're both bullshit terms.

I've seen the market and employment.
More useless metrics
Everyone's working and poverty increases.
And I'm sure the trade wars are helping.

@urwutuis Negative growth is double speak. Like building down. They're both bullshit terms. I've seen the market and...

Which useless metric are you using to measure poverty?

Or, is that one flawless and every other economic metric is flawed?

@Budwick Which useless metric are you using to measure poverty? Or, is that one flawless and every other economic metric is...

I didn't say they were flawed I said useless as they don't indicate how well an economy is working for most people.

The market doesn't show growth in anything but the market and if you work 1 hr a week you're considered employed.
GDP would increase if we had more sick people, if corporations gouge the public even more and there was more personal debt.

If we're experiencing all this growth and more people are working why is poverty growing?"

@urwutuis Negative growth is double speak. Like building down. They're both bullshit terms. I've seen the market and...

"Negative growth is doublespeak"

Wrong. "War is peace" or "Freedom is slavery" would be examples of doublespeak, noun-to-noun, not a noun modified by an adjective.

Positive growth is expansion, negative growth is shrinkage, as anyone with a modicum of knowledge of signed numbers understands. Read the link I posted.

"more useless metrics"

Yep, it's pretty clear by now that anything that doesn't fit your politics is "useless", and indeed it is useless for your purposes, but not useless for determining the truth of the matter.

The fact is, Democrats would be trumpeting their economic success from the rooftops if Hillary were president right now, and if the "useless metrics" were exactly what they are right now.

@Thinkerbell "Negative growth is doublespeak" Wrong. "War is peace" or "Freedom is slavery" would be examples of doublespeak...

Doublespeak is obscure or deceptive language or euphemisms.
Like alternative facts
It's not bombing it's air support.
Torture = enhanced interrogation
Shell shock = battle fatigue = Post traumatic stress disorder

I'm not saying the numbers aren't accurate.
I'm saying they don't reflect how well the economy is working.
More disasters, more sick people and more crime increase GDP. It's not a good measure of success.

How does a growing economy and virtually full employment create more poverty and personal debt?

The truth fits my politics very well and if it doesn't my politics change
Bullshit, on the other hand, doesn't fit.

None of which addresses the issue of helping the working class.

I'm just glad the Trump admin has accomplished more than almost any other admin in the history of the country.

@urwutuis Doublespeak is obscure or deceptive language or euphemisms. Like alternative facts It's not bombing it's air...

"Doublespeak is obscure or deceptive language or euphemisms."

OK, then by that tortured definition (which isn't what Orwell meant when he coined it), tell the NY Times they are engaging in doublespeak when, for example, they use the term "grown smaller". biggrin smilie

https://ludwig.guru/s/grown+smaller

And let's put your latest claims to the test:

"How does a growing economy and virtually full employment create more poverty and personal debt?"

The growing economy since the great recession has NOT created more poverty. The poverty rate GREW during the recession (when GDP fell) and has DROPPED since then (when GDP rose).
Image in content
As for personal debt, that also FELL relative to GDP during the recovery.
Image in content

This user has deactivated their account.
@2810732

So the numbers count for Trump but no one else?

@urwutuis So the numbers count for Trump but no one else?

Yeah Urwut. That's what you heard.
Try having an honest conversation to be taken seriously.

@Budwick Yeah Urwut. That's what you heard. Try having an honest conversation to be taken seriously.

Was there something dishonest about the question?
Raving about Trump's numbers then discarding the charts is honest?

This user has deactivated their account.
@2813555

The question had nothing to do with presidential power and makes no assumptions of any kind, however, the idea that the president has no influence is as ridiculous as it is irrelevant.

This user has deactivated their account.
@2813610

It's a flaw in my character.

Please   login   or signup   to leave a comment.