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Interestingly, in other cultures (non-western), children are rewarded when pulling of a skillful lie.
Is this like the saying "a thief thinks everyone steals" ?
Idk how nobody is pointing out the fact that op is wrong even if their opinion is right. By teaching kids not to lie, what we effectively teach them is that if you're going to lie, you better be good at it. We reinforce the idea that lying is a tool because even as a kid, if you lie convincingly there are no consequences, but if you lie unconvincingly you are punished.
EXACTLY!! Sorry this is what I'm trying to say
Children are generally taught it's not nice to tell stories, or lie, or fib… or whatever you like to call it.
Then they turn 11 or 14 and their teenaged brain overrides any "best parental intentions" for the vast majority of them 🤷♂️
In other words, doesn't particularly matter what your mom/dad taught you from 0-10, your hormones will do the heavy lifting later. If you had good parents who taught good, reasonable morals, you'll emerge into adulthood with a good set of values, but you will sometimes lie. I don't believe there's a human alive who has not.
This. My kids were taught not to lie. But now they're teens my god will they lie if they think they need to to protect themselves. Eventually they will tell the truth, the lying is usually more annoying than what they've done aswell.
Everyone will lie to protect themselves in certain situations. It's something we do as a defense mechanism. Whether you're taught or not.
Exactly! It's why I want to teach it as a tool, not a last result. I want them to have healthy ways of handling situations like that rather then lying. Teaching about lying as a tool also helps teens not result to it as a way to rebel
The cringiest part is when you have physical evidence in front of you. I know you done it son I have a video. Not me mam, so this person just happens to look like you, wear your clothing and has a scar on his head like where you got the rock smashed of it huh?
Tbf if I catch them before they admit the truth the punishment for lying is often worse, but it's because I keep trying to tell them. Letting their parents know straight up what they've done is how we can best be in their corner if needs be.
I can defend them better if I know the truth.
If they lie to their peers, so be it. Just be truthfull with me if I need to defend you in anything stupid you've done. We've all been stupid kids who do stupid stuff after all.
I feel like this would just lead to turning teenagers into good liars...
We all, at some point in our late teens to early adult life, realise that lying or obscuring the truth benefits us from time to time. But teaching kids its ok to lie seems like a bad approach.
Teenagers are good liars anyways. I never said that I'm teaching kids that it's okay to just lie. I'm saying that it is needed in certain situations and that there are better alternatives as well. A child should have many options to handle situations rather than just lie or don't lie
This is correct, lying is necessary to protect your own wellbeing,
Telling a child they must always tell the truth is basically like saying to a child "when a mosquito bites you, you must allow the mosquito to drink your blood"
There are those are determined to use everything you say against you
You say you've been around awhile now, but you're also an admitted liar
Why would I believe what you say? I'd be foolish to believe a liar
This is part of the inherent problem of justifying lying
You harm your own credibility
Have you lied before?
Good luck with teaching this nuance to a child, maybe if they're a teenager but no 6 year old is gonna understand that. They are just gonna see it as, it's ok to lie if it gets you what you want.
I understood perfectly well the difference between white lies and more manipulative or malicious ones as a six year old. I've also worked with kids that age and they understand a lot more than you think.
Thats what I'm saying. They understand a ridiculous amount. So why do we just say "don't do it, its bad" instead of teaching them that is only for certain situations
I feel like good parents don't. My mom treated us like young adults from the time we were toddlers and usually explained these things in details and we'd have discussions around them. But some parents would rather just shut things down.
EXACTLY! This is what I'm trying to say. Everything needs a discussion and boundaries rather then a hard NO
Uh huh 🙄
Sociopath
The very first thing a baby learns is to lie, the realize we will come when they cry so they cry for attention as opposed to only crying when in need.
Attention is a need..... Crying is meant to get your attention. It could be for many different reasons. There is no rule that crying is just for when they are hungry. Babies are vulnerable creatures. If they wake up in the middle of the night alone in a room, they wont feel very secure. They are going to cry so you come and so they can feel secure. They dont know you are in the next room over. They just know they are alone, and being alone is unsafe for them. Its literally their instinct to survive.
Well, its more matter of discussion with child. Lying is natural, but most of the time it is also hurtfull and selfish. Yes it can help in shortterm but mostly will create much more harm in longterm: not only in terms of hurting others, losing trust of others, but also it will destroy your healthy aproach to problematic things. When you lie, you dont face consequences of your bad actions/decisions and therefore not learning from those mistakes, but instead learning, that you havent done anything wrong... you basically fool yourself with your lies eventually.
And yes, there can be good (white) lies, or not so harmfull lies and kids need to learn how to distinguish those lies from those that cause harm, but generally speaking its better to discuss about this matter in terms of how you shouldnt lie, not how to use lie to your advantage (which is just selfish tool).
I'm not referring to white lies. There are plenty of times a good lie can help someone in a variety of ways
Yea accept kids lie literally all the time even while constantly being told not too. They have no discretion
Kids love to experiment to learn. Lying is part of that. Why not show them how it works instead of just making it disappear
Because they become compulsive about it. It doesnt work if you say just dont lie to me. Clearly people do it enough without help
You dont show them how it works because you are then enabling a behavior you actually want to be avoided as much as possible.
Actually kids need to understand lying is not okay, if you don't want them to lie don't lie yourself. For an example, is it okay to lie to your child about their pet running away them it actually died? No. Do you have to pretend you liked your child's drawing? No but you should say that in a nice way. Kids have to understand they should tell the truth even if it hurts
Sometimes kids lie to avoid punishment, I mean it's necessary for kids to be punished but I feel that some parents who quickly jump to punishment aren't exactly showing patience and also weren't setting limits. Sometimes kid lie because they don't want to talk to their parents about their problems because parents judge too quickly.
I think sometimes in some situations, parents are partly the blame, I mean sometimes parents do something or said something hurtful towards their child
Even if lying a lot ends up being a net positive for yor child, it surely won't be for society, because it is built on trust.
That's why your unpopular opinion should stay unpopular.
I'm not saying it should be a positive, I'm saying it should be understood for what it is rather then a "don't do it"
They are taught not to lie because when they are kids they dont have clear understanding of the implications and consequences of doing so. They dont need to be taught otherwise because thats just something every single person discovers as they grow, much like you said, "its part of life", it doesnt need a particular focus.
I think there are some things that, especially with young children, you need to be fairly hardline and absolute with in teaching certain lessons. Meaning, if you don't want the child to lie to you, you need to teach them to not lie. Then, as they get older and begin to mature, you can teach them more nuanced ideas and show them the shades of gray in life.
So I do agree that kids should eventually understand this, I feel like it's going to make things real challenging at first to make a rule like that work where they know lying is okay in certain situations but yet you expect them to always be honest with you (well, unless you don't expect that...). That will be hard for a young child to grasp.
Everyone on here bashing OP who has kids has told their kids to lie, even if they don't realize it. Aunt Gertrude is showing up to your sons 6th birthday and always has the worst gifts. You tell your kid to be appreciative, smile, be polite, say you like the gift and say thank you. A polite lie, but still a lie. Your 10 year old knows Santa isn't real, but your 5 year old doesn't- so you tell the 10 year old to "play along." That's lying. Your overbearing mother in law is coming over to dinner and you don't want her to know just yet you lost your job, are pregnant, whatever the situation. You ask your child to lie by omission. A stranger wants you to get in their car? Tell them your dads a police officer and he's on his way to get you. We all know OP worded this terribly, but come on.
Can you give some examples?
I am a Bartender. I have to lie to guests all of the time. It's a part of the job.
Protection from creeps, violent people, bullies, and toxic people. A good lie can get them to leave you alone.
Moving up in a late stage capitalism society. The only way to actually get ahead financially is to lie. It's a part of life.
And all this is being explained to a child?
No, but the skill children develop are for life. The concept should be simple.
I agree, actually. There was some study that came out a long time ago saying that children who were good liars had higher intelligence. I do believe there are many situations where lying is the best approach. But it is important to separate necessary lies from malicious ones.
Don't do what Donny Don't does.
When you lie you insult your dignity.
You don't really talk to any other creature the way you do a Human; that implies an equal proportion of dignity, when you lie you diminish their dignity. Because you hold their dignity equal; you too, diminish your own.
Dignity means little to strangers
The liar insults their own, that's the catch 22
I think children should be taught to just not talk to strangers without their parents guidance or permission.
Agree. 100%
So in other words, tell your kids the truth to earn their trust because trust is the most fundamental ingredient of a productive relationship?
Yes exactly. Parents will lie to their kids all the time and then say don't lie to me. Being a parent doesn't give you that right automatically
Yes, it does actually. Your kids are not equal to you. Your job is to do what is best for them by whatever means you can. Not to be on an equal footing with them.