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If you believe in God, then this will be the only hell that you know. But if you don't believe in God, then this will be the only heaven that you know. Amirite?

Top Comment

Well this just sounds like a dumbed down version of Pascal's Wager. What if you believed in the wrong god? You'll still be going to hell, just the hell of another religion. And, you offended Krishna/Ganesh/Apollo/Zeus/Odin by believing in the wrong god

+7811 See / Add Replies

Philosurfer

Comments

Deep....

+132 Reply

No one

Even if you believe in god there is still no such thing. Believing in something doesn't make it true.

-71118 Reply

ThatOneNut ThatOneNut

In response to “Even if you believe in god there is still no...

Not believing in something doesn't make it untrue.

+111653 Reply

boxtop

In response to “Not believing in something doesn't make it untrue.

The burden of proof falls on the one making the claim.

+231 Reply

ThatOneNut ThatOneNut

In response to “The burden of proof falls on the one making...

Sorry, could you simplify that?

022 Reply

boxtop

In response to “Sorry, could you simplify that?

If I tell you that somewhere in the solar system, there is a giant meatball orbiting the sun, I can't use your lack of proof that there isn't a meatball as proof that there must be a meatball there. In the same way, if you say there is a God, you can't use my lack of proof as proof for the existence of God.

+341 Reply

Sonofarifle

In response to “If I tell you that somewhere in the solar...

That wasn't my point though. My point was that just because you think something isn't true, that does not make it fact, and ThatOneNut was presenting his opinion in such a way.

+55 Reply

boxtop

In response to “If I tell you that somewhere in the solar...

I'm not saying there is a God. I'm saying that I believe He's real.

+22 Reply

LittleRed LittleRed

In response to “The burden of proof falls on the one making...

And making the claim that there is no God burdens you with needing proof as well.

+11 Reply

CherryBlossom CherryBlossom

In response to “And making the claim that there is no God...

No; because what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.

Isn't it a tad unfair that he requires proof to disprove your belief, of which you had no proof at all to begin with?

-11 Reply

TeaBagger.

In response to “No; because what can be asserted without...

Nope. It's the same way that you need proof to disprove a hypothesis in a scientific procedure. Until then, it is an unproven hypothesis. That is why, during these procedures, you may be able to disprove something easily but it is less often that science will yield something 100% true.

And I don't see that as unfair as disbelievers will often dismiss anything that supports religion due their own bias anyways, so I don't see a difference.

0 Reply

CherryBlossom CherryBlossom

In response to “Nope. It's the same way that you need proof...

Really? So if I go around telling others I fiercely believe in The Pink Unicorn and people laugh, it's on them because as long as they can't disprove it's existence they're just making fun of on my religion?

Besides, I find it extremely hard to disprove the existence of God.

Tell you what, when you show me concrete proof that Pink Unicorns don't exist, I will show you proof that God doesn't.

-22 Reply

TeaBagger.

In response to “Really? So if I go around telling others I...

1) Whether pink unicorns exist or not is irrelevant to my life. If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't.

2) Obviously you will not take the Bible as evidence, but the difference between religion is that it has a founder and it has a history. I take the existence of the Holy Book as a point towards God. Unicorns don't have this.

3) Everything depends on definition. If we were to genetically manipulate a horse into growing a horn, and then manipulating it's cells to glow pink, pink unicorns will exist! (I've seen a pic with a horn growing out of their forehead, and a pic of glow in the dark mice, that inspired this point)

4) If pink unicorns exist, then I think that they would prefer not being known, as they have given no indication of existing. Let's not question the way of the Pink Unicorn, shall we?

5) If we die and there is no God, people will not feel regrets for believing in Him. If there is a God, they will be happy that they did. So basically, if you live your life as though something exists, then it exists to you, whether or not it exists further.

+11 Reply

CherryBlossom CherryBlossom

In response to “Really? So if I go around telling others I...

These are basically just a bunch of ideas. You're right, it's hard to disprove something, as I clearly couldn't. However, that doesn’t mean that something does not exist. After all, the world doesn’t work on a “if there’s no proof that I know, it doesn’t exist” basis.

0 Reply

CherryBlossom CherryBlossom

In response to “Nope. It's the same way that you need proof...

Oh, and I agree with the second part of your comment.

Except; in your attempt to be "unbiased" you forgot to add the fact that believers too will often dismiss anything that does not support their religion due to their own bias anyways.

It's not one-sided.

Nice try, though.

0 Reply

TeaBagger.

In response to “Oh, and I agree with the second part of your...

Nice try? Reread it. That's why I wrote "so it doesn't make a difference." Because both sides are the same, in that they will stick to their own convictions. It may not have been clear, but don't assume that I was "attempting to be unbiased" and ended up not being. I just miscommunicated.

0 Reply

CherryBlossom CherryBlossom

In response to “Nice try? Reread it. That's why I wrote...

You believe in God.

And that's fine.

But when you bring the idea of God's existence into an argument?
Clearly you must know that if you were going to bring a point in a debate, you must have something to back it up other than 'Well there's no proof saying otherwise..."

Think of it this way; I get that you don't care whether or not Pink UNicorns currently exist, but if there was a debate on whether or not they did, you yourself would never except the argument "they must exist because we haven't disproved their existence".

You can believe in God all you want but when it comes to making points, or making policies whether in life or debates, their has to be a standard.

We don't convict criminals simply because "there's not evidence disproving their crime" and we shouldn't expect Athiests to to accept their defeat in religious debates and arguments merely because a theist says "you haven't proved that he doesn't exists."

Besides, you mind telling me exactly how or what Athiests need to disprove God's existence? Clearly if you're aksing for it, you must know what is.

0 Reply

TeaBagger.

In response to “Nice try? Reread it. That's why I wrote...

And of course I won't take the Bible as evidence.

If we can't use books detailing the crimes of a person to use as evidence for their conviction, how can you expect me to take a book as enough proof for something as grand as the idea of a God or supreme being?

0 Reply

TeaBagger.

In response to “And of course I won't take the Bible as...

I think that we've gone away from the main point of my initial comment. I was saying that if the person above, who is insisting that God does not exist, is going to to demand proof, then he is obligated to provide proof as well when claiming that he is right and when questioning a long held belief of many people in the world. Because the reality is: he doesn't know. You don't know. Heck, I don't even know. However, I have faith and will act accordingly.

I wasn't the one being disrespectful or condescending. You not believing doesn't make it untrue, and until you can provide some proof, then I'd appreciate it if you didn't act like a know-it-all. I was on the defensive, whereas you and the previous commentor were the ones that were "asking for it." And as I was saying, there is no way to prove his existence just as there is no way to disprove it. However, me following my faith is a positive thing in my life and I don't lose anything from it. You can do as you please, I never said that you couldn't. So if you're only going to be rude while avoiding my initial point, then we can just agree to disagree and move on.

0 Reply

CherryBlossom CherryBlossom

In response to “I think that we've gone away from the main...

" and until you can provide some proof". Funny, until you can explain in what form I can show you prove of something not existing, I'm afraid I don't knwo what you're talking about.

I'll just pretend I didn't notice that you ignored my first request at getting you to tell me what this so called "proof" that you wanted is and totally ignore the hypocrisy of you then accusing me of "avoiding [your] intial point".

Like I said, you can't ask for something if you know it can't be produced. You definitely know that. As an Atheist, proof for me would be a supernatural happening before my eyes like Jesus appearing out of now where. You have yet to tell me YOUR requirements.

We're not gonna get anywhere. We don't believe in the same things, but you're actually going to accuse me of being rude because I question your beliefs? What's next? I'm taking away your right to believe?

Then don't bother replying. I've had enough of people playing the "rude" card when they don't wanna bother defending the beliefs they say they care greatly about.

0 Reply

TeaBagger.

In response to “I think that we've gone away from the main...

And I get your point; it's just that it makes no sense.

It's common sense that we don't assume something exists until someone makes a point of it or brings up a theory of it's existence. Next step? prove it's existence before taking any other steps.

Like my previous points; we don't believe everything exists. You wanna believe in something? That's fine. You wanna say that something exists? That's fine. You wanna say "hey, I believe that a god DOES exist"? That's fine. You wanna talk about a theory, pertaining not only to God and his existence but
His manner
His appearance
His ideology
His powers
His limitations
His creation of the afterlife
His Word?,
that's fine. But at some point if you wanna be taken seriously, you need to start providing evidence you can stand on.

Or, you can just double down and accusing anyone who questions your beliefs and reasoning to them as "being rude".
It's worked for centuries.

0 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “And I get your point; it's just that it makes...

I wasn't calling you rude because you were questioning my beliefs, I was calling you rude because of the arrogance that your comments present in your insinuations that people that believe in different things than you are somehow beneath you.

And the way I see it, either God exists or He doesn't. Your insisting that assuming that He doesn't exist is the state of things that we'd fall back to if there is no proof. However, with these 50/50 odds, the natural assumption varies from person to person as it is part of an arbitrary system.

Considering that the person that I responded originally insisted that the side making the claim must provide proof after he claimed that God did not exist, I simply pointed out that he, too, was making a claim and therefore, by his own logic, must provide proof.

So, as I insist and will continue to do so, since we both have separate foundations to consider the natural basis of things and that I firmly believe the existence of God is just as likely, (actually, more likely, in my opinion) than His non-existence, then I insist that the burden of proof falls on both sides.

0 Reply

CherryBlossom CherryBlossom

In response to “I wasn't calling you rude because you were...

"I was calling you rude because of the arrogance that your comments present in your insinuations that people that believe in different things than you are somehow beneath you."

Oh, I said that you were beneath me? or something to that effect? Really? I've got to get new glasses, since I can't find that in my comments..

"So, as I insist and will continue to do so, since we both have separate foundations to consider the natural basis of things......... then I insist that the burden of proof falls on both sides."

And I will continue to believe otherwise, and i will continue to insist the burden of proof falls on the one making claims. After all, Atheism doesn't claim anything; it just rejects the idea of of God.

And I will keep insisting that.
No matter how much "arrogance" you claim it to have; since it's the same thing you are doing.

Btw, for trolling purposes, I think you are an idiot and I am Stephen- Hawking-level genius.
I have good reason and therefor logical thinking, to believe above statement is entirely true and anything otherwise is entirely false b/c you have yet to provide concrete evidence proving otherwise.

0 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “I wasn't calling you rude because you were...

You STILL have yet to tell me what you would need to make you not believe in God.

Probably because you know it's impossible to disprove the existence of anything.

Therefor I find it highly unfair that you ask Atheists of something which you know is impossible to conjure up and then say, "well because you haven't done so, it validates my assumptions"".

And since you know it's impossible to prove he doesn't exist, you know that you will never see the side of Atheism.

Whereas I'm open to the fact that I might be converted at any moment if I see something miraculous.

And you're calling me arrogant?

0 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “You STILL have yet to tell me what you would...

And whatever. What I've been saying it that atheists have assumptions too. They make the assumption that God does not exist. The fact that there is no proof that they'd accept doesn't make their assumptions true. The fact that they can't prove his non-existence simply validates my right to assume God's existence, and to make the assumption that this 50% statistic is equally plausible to the possibility of His non-existence.

And you've provided shit. (For trolling purposes, of course.) All you've said this whole time is that you don't need proof whereas we do. To turn around a statement you provided earlier, if you want to be taken seriously by the religious world, you have to be able to provide, if not proof, then some very solid supporting information in your favour. Which you have completely neglected in doing. Especially in "atheism doesn't claim anything." Yes, yes it does. That's what I've been saying all along. Like, I can probably count the instances. Atheism claims the non-existence of God.

And wow, calling me an idiot, huh? That, for sure, is proof of your rudeness.

But don't worry. Insulting me will definitely make your case stronger.

0 Reply

CherryBlossom CherryBlossom

In response to “And whatever. What I've been saying it that...

WHAT PROOF ARE YOU LOOKING FOR?? lololol
You are not fooling anyone by trying to act like you even have a chance in this debate, when you have basically acknowledged that it is impossible to disprove something.

I'm not an idiot. Anyone reading would have noticed two posts ago that you STILL haven't even told me of the proof you're looking for.
Clearly because you know asking for such proof makes no sense.
You're not fooling anyone; lol.

Like I've said; I will prove God doesn't exist( like, legitely), when you prove to me that Pink Glittery Unicorns definitely don't exist. And when you see that the problem lies in the question itself, you'll know what I've been getting at.

And if you hadn't noticed my example, I wasn't actually calling you an idiot. Although you might be one if you actually hadn't noticed the point I was getting; you will always be an idiot until you disprove it.
Please don't tell me you did not get that.

If you're not gonna tell me what proof you're looking for, yet still think I'm stupid enough to carny on a debate where you're missing one huge piece of your argument, then don't bother.

0 Reply

TeaBagger.

In response to “And whatever. What I've been saying it that...

But don't worry, you're right; playing the "I didn't your point(even though I'm obviously not an idiot) so I'm just gonna assume anything that come out of yoru mouth is an insult" card, will DEFINITELY make my case stronger.

0 Reply

TeaBagger.

In response to “Even if you believe in god there is still no...

And stating your opinion as a fact doesn't make it so.

+121312 Reply

Baconnoisseur Baconnoisseur

If you believe in God, then there is one hell, but it's not here on earth. It's in actual hell.

+231 Reply

Sneed Sneed

In response to “If you believe in God, then there is one...

OP means that if you believe in God, you'll go to Heaven and the only "Hell" that you'll suffer is here on earth.

+462 Reply

boxtop

In response to “OP means that if you believe in God, you'll...

Yeah, but saying you believe in God isn't a one-way ticket to Heaven. Some people claim they believe in God but their actions say something opposite.

+88 Reply

Sneed Sneed

In response to “Yeah, but saying you believe in God isn't a...

Well I'm pretty sure this post applies to those who are actually true in their faith. Maybe OP just didn't want to go into that.

+2421 Reply

boxtop

In response to “Well I'm pretty sure this post applies to...

Ohhh ok, I got it. I'm just saying that we shouldn't take liberties and assume that just because we believe in God we are definitely, without a doubt going to Heaven.

+44 Reply

Sneed Sneed

In response to “Ohhh ok, I got it. I'm just saying that we...

and if you are a good, moral person who doesnt believe in God, that doesn't necessarily mean you'll go to hell...

+661 Reply

J_A_C_K J_A_C_K

In response to “and if you are a good, moral person who...

I know. When it comes down to it, God is the one who decides where you're spending eternity, so I shouldn't be saying who gets to go into Heaven or hell.

+22 Reply

Sneed Sneed

In response to “If you believe in God, then there is one...

You might be misunderstanding the post. I think it's saying that if you believe in God, Earth will be the closest thing to heck that you will experience, assuming that all people who believe in God will go to heaven, not that heck doesn't exist.

022 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “You might be misunderstanding the post. I...

...heck?

Just say it. Hell. In this context, it's not a bad word.

+19201 Reply

brunetterox915 brunetterox915

In response to “heck? Just say it. Hell. In this context...

I know... I typed that at first, but I'm too much of a goody-good to use it in any context. I am just brainwashed, I guess.

0 Reply

Anonymous

Not if we take a time macne to the futer.

044 Reply

Anonymous

Well this just sounds like a dumbed down version of Pascal's Wager. What if you believed in the wrong god? You'll still be going to hell, just the hell of another religion. And, you offended Krishna/Ganesh/Apollo/Zeus/Odin by believing in the wrong god

+7811 Reply

Philosurfer

Only if you (dis)believe and are right.

+11 Reply

Tim5o Tim5o

I'm agnostic, but can't you still go to hell if you believe in God? Like if you sin?

+22 Reply

Fred_Weasley Fred_Weasley

In response to “I'm agnostic, but can't you still go to hell...

Which one are you talking about? There are thousands.

022 Reply

YeahIAm

In response to “Which one are you talking about? There are...

Christianity I guess. I should've specified that. (ono)

0 Reply

Fred_Weasley Fred_Weasley

In response to “Christianity I guess. I should've specified...

The majority believe so, then.

+11 Reply

YeahIAm

In response to “I'm agnostic, but can't you still go to hell...

(In reference to the God of Abraham) You can go to Hell even if you believe, and you won't go necessarily go to Hell for not being religious.

+33 Reply

chocolatecakeisbad chocolatecakeisbad

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