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People against illegal immigrants in America, this country was built by illegal immigrants, amirite?
by Anonymous13 years ago
everyone in the country is an immigrant or a descendant of an immigrant except a few first nations peoples
by Anonymous13 years ago
Even Native Americans immigrated here over the land bridge. North America, it seems, was uninhabited at one point a LONG time ago.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Actually this country was built by LEGAL immigrants. Not illegal, all the immigrants that built this country were legal. Your post is a fallacy
by Anonymous13 years ago
Native Americans, the only people living here before europeans, had laws against outsiders entering sacred lands.
by Anonymous13 years ago
But the colonies weren't sacred land were they? I can understand after they got freedom from the british though, when they started advancing to the west where the Native Americans were.
by Anonymous13 years ago
I recommend doing at least a LITTLE research before posting. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States#European_exploration_and_colonization
Natives existed in more or less everywhere that is currently the United States. The British actually enslaved a slaughtered many many natives on the east coast. Read about it in any US history texbook
by Anonymous13 years ago
If you noticed, my comment was in the form of a question. The question would mean I did not do research and I hoped people would acknowledge this and answer the question, not tell me to "do research".
by Anonymous13 years ago
If you knew this stuff why would you look it up on wikipedia? Are you using wikipedia or a US history book. Get your facts straight
by Anonymous13 years ago
Jesus people calm down haha. Would you like me to *link* you to a textbook? Or are you looking for a citation to mine which wouldn't actual do you any good because you don't own the book?
I'm not looking it up on Wikipedia, I can't recount the entirety of history of contact between Europeans and natives, so I'm providing you with an article which will let you read for yourself.
by Anonymous13 years ago
So you get your source from wikipedia? That's reliable
by Anonymous13 years ago
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States#Notes the article is thoroughly cited.
Otherwise, you may look at http://academic.udayton.edu/health/syllabi/bioterrorism/00intro02.htm or http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.11/1columbus.html
(yes, both of those are from universities, good enough?)
by Anonymous13 years ago
I guess so but people act like we are the only people who have done it. It is an event that will take place through out history except for America. I'm not worried about mexicans taking over
by Anonymous13 years ago
Um, what? I'm pretty sure you just started talking about something different from what I was saying
by Anonymous13 years ago
Like you know shit
by Anonymous13 years ago
Good job being a dick. I like how you implied that I'm stupid instead of trying to refute what I said. That really makes you look COOL.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Damn some people on this site are too sensitive.
by Anonymous13 years ago
If I was oversensitive, I would have said that your comment about me not knowing shit is offensive to proctologists. That's two comments where you've failed to respond to me.
by Anonymous13 years ago
The Native Americans weren't the only people living in America before the Europeans. The Vikings were here long before the Eropeans.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Well, the vikings were Europeans... But all they did was send a few hundred people to northeast Canada for a few years around 1,000 ad. The Chinese, Pacific Islanders, and some Africans also probably sailed over, but they didn't stay long either.
by Anonymous13 years ago
@582514 (majado): Yeah, they found Roman coins in various places in North America. I'm not up to date on this topic, but last time I did reading on this stuff, that's what I found. Which is approximately 4 years ago
by Anonymous13 years ago
Actually, when the Pilgrims first came over, they settled outside the Virginia Company's jurisdiction and didn't have a legal charter. Therefore, they were illegal.
by Anonymous13 years ago
ok technically you're right, most people had charters, BUT the monarchies who gave them the charters didn't have any real rights to the lands. legally, they did, but only because the europeans just decided that they owned the land without paying or even asking the indians. the first americans (white) who went to texas were actually illegally in mexico, since the area was still part of mexico.
anyway it's not like the illegals come and kill citizens and take their house. those "legal" immigrants who colonized did exactly that.
by Anonymous13 years ago
You're a fallacy.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Oh my god this is the internet not America's fansite stop posting things about America's problems.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Not the best argument I've ever heard in favor of illegal immigration, but I'll let it slide since I agree with the belief =]
by Anonymous13 years ago
To be fair, when Europeans immigrated there were no immigration laws. Also: Columbus didn't discover America.
by Anonymous13 years ago
I agree with your second statement, he never even saw it, I think he landed on an Island off shore or something? Then something Cabot? Discovered America, my history is a little shaky, but by today's standards I'm pretty sure it would have been considered illegal, what the pilgrims did
by Anonymous13 years ago
Don't proctologists study asses and not shit? And what was your question?
by Anonymous13 years ago
Doesn't really mean illegal immigration should be acceptable now...
That was 500 freaking years ago.
by Anonymous13 years ago
So? Killing and stealing have been around far past that, yet they are still not acceptable. When you think about it there really isn't that much of a difference between us and the people back then. I'm pretty sure they were sad when there family members got raped or killed.... Besides what the pilgrims did is WAY worse than what the illegal immigrants of today are doing
by Anonymous13 years ago
The problem isn't that they're immigrants, but that by coming here illegally they are not paying many of the taxes that the rest of us are, though they are using the same services.
by Anonymous13 years ago
most of them are abused by businesses who don't need to pay them minimum wage
by Anonymous13 years ago
it's not abuse if you welcome it eagerly.
by Anonymous13 years ago
if they have a job, they pay taxes just like the rest of us. and statistically illegals actually use less of the services than the general population.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Most people don't mind illegal immigrants as long as they don't use our tax money for free education and benefits. Why would you reward someone for entering your country without permission?
by Anonymous13 years ago
Have you heard about what they are doing in Arizona? I think southern states mind it a LOT, I'm not going to say everyone, but there are quite a few people that are really ignorant about it. And I'm not saying that you should reward them, no one is. They are coming here and working their asses off, to have a decent life. They EARN their living, no one is giving them anything, not even permission to work.... They struggle and find it on their own
by Anonymous13 years ago
They were legal immigrants, and there was plenty of room. The country is running out of space and money. We can't let absolutely everyone in.
by Anonymous13 years ago
By today's definition of "legal" they definitely were NOT legal. And maybe if so many people didn't have obesity problems there would be more room.... Jk, but seriously? There was a lot of room, but the pilgrims wanted the land that was already inhabited and kicked the Native Americans out of their HOMES and made them move to a completely new area. I have never heard of the recent illegal immigrants doing that
by Anonymous13 years ago
The people who come here might not have a good place to live, or be able to get good jobs anyway and we already have a huge population problem. We have crowded schools, crowded hospitals, crowded cities and not enough money to fund everything for millions of people already living here.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Addressing the first part, let them worry about that, given the opportunity they will find something that will suit them. Also the bit about the country being crowded, there is plenty of space outside the big cities, if they are willing to expand. I just feel like if the first immigrants built this country and they did many horrific things, then we should give these immigrants a chance so we can see where they can take us.
by Anonymous13 years ago
There's still not a lot of room for everyone. I just don't want to turn into a country like Japan. They're not a bad country or anything, but the population is so dense, it's like having half of the U.S. population packed into a state the size of Montana.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Well see that would be a problem and I'm no Communist, but I feel like there should be a regulatory law to how many kids a parent can have, kind of like China....
by Anonymous13 years ago
Oh my gosh, there was a whole stinking Captain Planet episode about population control. That's not entirely a good idea though, because a lot of people or religions(like catholicism) are against birth control. I don't want it to get to the point where it is in China, where people kill the baby if they can't afford to have it around. There's a fiction book series about a world where it's illegal to have three children, it's called the Shadow Children series, the first one is Among The Hidden. Things don't go well for third children.
by Anonymous13 years ago
I think I read one of those books. main character was a third child and it was viewed in his eyes right?
and they don't kill the baby. You can have another baby if you pay the tax for it. For the most part, I don't believe that they actually slaughter the baby when it comes out though. or maybe you're taklking about abortion.
without condoms, China = GG.
btw im Chinese so not racists.
by Anonymous13 years ago
"the country is running out of space" USA population density: 32ppl/km2
UK population density: 254.7ppl/km2
i think you have room...
by Anonymous13 years ago
Yeah, in the crappy parts of the country, with less buisinesses, meaning less jobs available. But hey, there's plenty of room in the desert and Alaska.
by Anonymous13 years ago
so your saying 6/7th of your land is unlivable. where people go, business follows. Immigrants come, and start consuming, meaning more work is created to deal with this influx of demand, USA is the last country to need to whine about being over-populated.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Yeah, what he said!
by Anonymous13 years ago
yes, but at that time, the people who settled north america were not illegal.
by Anonymous13 years ago
They sure did a lot of illegal things though, like kill, steal, rape, and so much more....
by Anonymous13 years ago
Actually, the immagrants who built America weren't illegal. Other than that, you're right.
by Anonymous13 years ago
What were they? Did the Native Americans send out an invitation? "Hey guys come over here kill us, give us diseases, rape our women, steal our lands, and harvest the food that we worked so hard to grow!" And then a European checked his e-mail and was like, "Hey these guys are cool, I'll RSVP that shit"
by Anonymous13 years ago
the words 'illegal' & 'immigrants' do not belong in the same sentence, ever. immigration is in no way illegal & the people who do come to America illegally are called aliens, not immigrants. immigrants are people who came to the US legally & got their papers & became citizens. illegals do not belong here & they are not immigrants, they are illegal aliens.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Okay then, "People against illegal aliens in America, this country was built by illegal aliens, amirite?" UNLESS that is, the pilgrims had papers?
by Anonymous13 years ago
@583866 (KickAss): well since you are such a smart ass, i lol'd. but then yes, i would have to agree (:
by Anonymous13 years ago
Well I'm proud of my smart ass, people tell me that's one of my best features
by Anonymous13 years ago
What gives any of you more of a right to be here than anyone else and to have our rights and freedoms? Just because you were born here? That doesn't make you special. Everyone on EARTH is equal and if they want to come here and make a better life, let them come. Besides, the immigrants (aliens) who are "illegal" right now are really the ones that we WANT to have in our country because they have the brains and determination that it takes to get things done. Also, if you threw out all illegal immigrants from the US, the economy would collapse, I guarantee it. A huge portion of our economy depends on the working class that is made up of illegal immigrants. So think about all of that please.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Just curious, have you ever actually studied economics? Because if you have, you would know that there is no possible way you can guarantee anything, especially what you claim you can.
If the illegal aliens currently in our country weren't here, the economy would definitely not fall apart.
Yes, many immigrants have the "brains and determination" to achieve great things, but you know what they also have the "brains and determination" to do? Apply to be a LEGAL citizen.
Because, honestly, illegal aliens enter this country just to make life better for themselves; not to achieve greatness or anything.
Not to mention the fact that the aliens in the country are contributing to the downfall of the economy itself; not preventing it from collapsing. (Because they are illegal, they do not have to pay what legal citizens pay but get all the same benefits. Plus, the supply of necessities in the country will stay the same, but the demand for them increases, thus creating a...
by Anonymous13 years ago
shortage, thus jacking up prices. Not exactly the makings for a robust economy.)
And, yes, the backbone of the economy is based on the working class. But the *legal* working class. Because this way, the workers don't just receive benefits and money without having to give anything back to the government.
And, sure, I have absolutely no problem letting people into the country to make a better life.
Just so long as they actually come in the right and legal way; the way one is supposed to immigrate.
Think about THAT.
by Anonymous13 years ago
I would try to argue with all that, but I've argued too much, so I'll say this, if the pilgrims tried to "come in the right and legal way" then America will not be the America it is now
by Anonymous13 years ago
Cool story, bro.
So, just a little FYI here, you *do* know that the Pilgrims were not, in fact, the first European immigrants to North America, right?(And I don't mean Vikings or anything like that were.)
The first English immigrants in the New World settled in Jamestown, Virginia. The Pilgrims came later. Much, much later.
And you also know that the English immigrants settling there received crap land, right? You could barely grow anything. And that's why there weren't any Native American tribes living in the acres where the English settled. So, technically, we didn't kick them out of anywhere.(Only when we expanded our territory through warfare later.)
And, yeah, dur, without the Pilgrims "illegally" immigrating(and I'll just assume you know about the thousands of other English immigrants that came way before the Pilgrims)America would be different.
What's your point? I have no idea how you're trying to connect that to the rest of the post, or anything else.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Thanks for the history lesson, that I took in U.S history in high school, then again a course in college about the history of the United States, then again in another class I don't even care to remember. Sure I'm using vague and partially inaccurate words in my argument, but the basic idea is the same.... The first Europeans to get to America did not "come in the right and legal way". I really do not know which argument this is or where I was trying to go with the argument, but the OP I made is meant to say that immigrants are what make this country this country, legal or not. I'm sorry I'm kind of apathetic at this point, I had a shitty day/week and I do love to argue, which was why I came on here, however you're not the average dumbass joe and I cannot win this argument unless I get my shit together. Here I will give you a free card, just holler at me when you want to argue, any topic (including this one) and we can do it, but at a later time. Okay?
by Anonymous13 years ago
Um, you're welcome?
And thanks, I think?
Haha and, just so you know, I really like to argue too. And I can see the point you're trying to make.
I'm sorry you had a crappy day/week, I hope it gets better.
And I'll be sure to use that card later, thanks. :p
by Anonymous13 years ago
Yeah, but the immigrants who came here a long time ago worked hard to make a living in this country. They had to learn english, they had to work low paying jobs, and the government didn't focus mainly on them. The immigrants now are stealing our high paying jobs, they don't give a shit about learning english, and they are too fucking lazy to TRY to make a life here.
by Anonymous13 years ago
WAIT WHAT? Who had to learn English? The British? Weren't they already speaking ENGLISH? The Spanish didn't have to learn English, the French didn't learn any new language, they FORCED the natives to LEARN THEIR language. And they aren't stealing high paying jobs, they get paid under minimum wage.... PLZ tell me you're a troll and actually not that stupid
by Anonymous13 years ago
The Europeans weren't illegal, they were just immigrants. They came over here and worked hard to get away from their oppressive government. The "illegal" immigrants are here, taking our jobs, and NOT paying taxes. If they want a better life then maybe they should actually become an american citizen? Hmm...there's a crazy thought.
by Anonymous13 years ago
Yeah it is especially considering that the Europeans who came here were killing and taking the Natives land, and NOT paying taxes....
by Anonymous13 years ago
What taxes were there to pay in the 1500's?
by Anonymous13 years ago
See, what the original immigrants did is way worse than what these immigrants are doing. Btw getting your citizenship isn't as easy as it seems. You have to spend money in order to get it, I have a job and school and I'm still putting it off till I'm done with school to work on it. The people who are here and have families, when will they make enough money to be able to take this test? Or learn English well enough to actually take it and pass the test?
by Anonymous13 years ago
So it's kinda like this. I can't buy this fancy computer, so it's alright for me to illegally get money until I can pay for it?
by Anonymous13 years ago
Well a computer is something extra, a job is a necessity, unless you're filthy rich. You cannot survive without money to pay for food or drinks and also shelter. Unless you steal the food or drinks and possibly shelter?
by Anonymous13 years ago
I just meant the way I was paying for it. A lot of them probably do steal food and drinks. Just the fact that they are doing everything illegally is what makes americans mad. If they can do stuff illegally to survive, doesn't that mean actual americans can do stuff illegally and get away with it?
by Anonymous13 years ago
Immigrants are not taking your jobs,,, i guarantee most americans would never agree to do the jobs aliens are forced to do in order to get enough money to support their families at home. yOUR ENTIRE ECONOMY DEPENDS ON THE EXISTENCE OF THIS WORKING CLASS.... as well as for the existence of the immigrants that come here to work on academic circles and help you develop things such as internet (something an earlier post mentions)
Oh and FYI.... America is a very hated country, don't kid yourself
by Anonymous13 years ago
Newsflash, Americans did work those jobs prior to the positions being handed to illegal aliens for lower pay. Did you think that the workforce created a new sector of jobs just for illegal aliens???
by Anonymous13 years ago
why are people so fucking stupid nowadays? the american colonies were not a country. one could come and go as they please. this country was created off of imperialism and escape from religious prosecution.
by Anonymous13 years ago
It's not being stupid, it's the same concept. The only difference is that the illegal immigrants now are not coming here by force and making Americans move to other parts of the country while making a life for themselves
by Anonymous13 years ago
You're right about Arizona. I live ion New Jersey in a city that has a huge population of illegal immigrants and an equally large jewish orthodox community. I am friends with both sides but belong to the jewish community here. There are very few people that are not one of the two. The outcome is that all the illegal immigrants go to schools paid for almost exclusively by people who don't use these same schools. These are lower middleclass people who have a hard time paying for tuition and work long hours for this. That is a little unfair if you ask me.
by Anonymous13 years ago
I can't tell if you're arguing with me or agreeing, if you scroll up and vote, it would help! It's free. C'mon don't be apathetic, voting is FUN! XD
by Anonymous13 years ago
Maybe when I'm on a computer. It takes forever to vote from my phone. I'm agreeing and disagreeing. I love my country but sometimes in trying to please everyone they instead please no one. I think that anything 'illegal' is not ok because if illegal people get rights it'll just spread to other illegal activities. If you have a law, stick with it. If there's a problem with the law instead of allowing people to break it, change the fucking law. Get it? That way all the hardworking people in my community will pay equal taxes and receive equal benefits. Right now it seems people are being rewarded for being illegal which makes no sense.
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