-304 Pedophilia is obviously wrong, yet it's not a choice. following that logic, just because something is involuntary doesn't make it right. so stop using "they don't choose to be gay," in a gay-rights fight. thank you, amirite?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

That's a little different. Most gay people don't go looking on the internet for people of the same gender they can rape.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

(+Me): Different only in their actions. but in ethicality/voluntarity they're the same.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Do you know what ethicality means? Either you don't or you're a troll. Also, by your logic, every last one of us is the same in "ethicality" for being white, black, asian, native american, indian, hispanic, tall, short, a man, a woman or just human. All of which are involuntary, so if you were trying to make a legitimate argument, you fail. If you were trying to troll, you've also just compared yourself to pedos for having several things about you just as involuntary as them, so that's also quite a failure at trolling. In short, your post was full of failure.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

you know, it bugs the hell out of me when people assume that i'm trolling just because they don't agree. that is ignorant and egocentric. of course i know what ethical means. and it is wanton as well as foolish to disregard what you know is right. you didn't even argue a good point in your comment. You attacked my vocabulary and accused me of trolling. come up with a true retaliation, then let's talk.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

well here's the argument, pedophiles touch small children against the child's will and it is illegal. gay people have consensual sex and it is not illegal.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

well tank you for etablishing that gays are better than pedophiles. I had no idea.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

(+Me): It's really annoying how people are so prejudiced against pedophiles. Not every single pedophile actually goes out raping children. That's a huge generalisation.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Not only do I agree with "+ Me", the other difference is that people are constantly telling gay people that it's the life they chose. This makes the "it's not a choice" argument a valid one.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

personally, i think it is a choice. now, don't yell at me about "why would they choose a life like that" bla bla bla. I know. i've heard it twenty billion times. so let's assume it's not a choice. What is it? it's certainly not hereditary and it's CERTAINLY not just a random gene. That leads me to believe they either choose it or are encouraged in that direction

by Anonymous 13 years ago

hormonal imbalance

by Anonymous 13 years ago

caused by...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

abnormal prenatal conditions...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

abnormal? then why is it so common?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

it's only 10% of the population... I use "abnormal" as to say, "more uncommon," or "different."

by Anonymous 13 years ago

alright but that makes it sound as though it's a normal or default hormonal happening. I mean, that suggests that it is a typical allele of some sort. do you believe that?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

alleles are genes right? well it has been proven that gay men have more gay relatives on their mothers side, so it could be the mother's genes. Identical twins have a much greater chance of being gay if the other one is, but that could just be because of the same prenatal conditions

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Being gay IS a choice. gays dn't choose a life of discrimination and chastising...they choose to be with a member of the same sex. the chastisement is a RESULT of that choice.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

How is it a choice? Someone isn't gonna be like "oh, I think I'll go for guys today" and then the next day be like "ehh... I liked guys yesterday, so I think I'll like girls today". It doesn't happen that way.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Its fantastic that we are all entitled to our opinions...i completely disagree with this post but i do it respectfully...i would just like to point out that pedophillia involves a person hurts others and being gay doesnt...i know plenty of very nice gays and they r just people...theres a reason being gay is legal...there is a clause in the constitution that protects our rights to privacy in the bedroom so please if its not hurting you why do you care?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

i know nice gay people too. I like them as people just not for that particular trait. I believe in the bible and i know most people don't count that as a valid argument, but that is my personal reason. thank you for respecting my opinion.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

it doesn't physically hurt me, but it morally degrades our society, and I won't stand for it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yeah, because making society more tolerant is totally a bad thing. Let's turn back the clock and fight for discrimination!

by Anonymous 13 years ago

tolerance isn't always a good thing...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Example?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

everyone, please accept and tolerate sex offenders.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

There we go, a legitimate point. As far as that goes, I think that there should be tolerance within reason. Obviously we shouldn't make rape/molestation legal. However, gay marriage is a completely different situation. But I accept that sex offenders are people and still deserve rights and that to a certain extent they don't control it. Idk if you'd call that tolerance.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

yeah i think they have rights as human beings, definitely. but sex offenders shouldn't have the right to continue that activity.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

i really don't understand how it degrades our society. It's the people who can't tolerate them and hate them for the way they are that degrades our society.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

From my perspective, you my dear are degrading our society. Hateful, evil people like yourself are what's ruining the world, not two men in love with each other.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I find it amusing how you call me evil andhateful whn you have never even met me. I'm not hateful and i'm not evil. I am friends with a couple homosexual couples thank you very much. In response to the tolerance issue, yes, there are some things we will have to tolerate in life. But tolerance should only have to go so far. Example you ask? The cases of "appeasement" towards HITLER as he invaded surrounding countries for no reason. Racial Discrimination is a competely different issue. I don't "hate" gays. I think that they should not be allowed to marry. simple as that. I have reasons for my thinking, it's not some blind, raging passion to keep gays from being happy.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Pedophilia is bad because it involves someone under the age of consent, or even worse, a child who has no knowledge of sex, so they cannot possibly consent. Though both homosexuals and pedophiles are born that way, there is a big difference when it comes to acting on it

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Okay. Pedophiles molest CHILDREN. Gays are TWO CONSENTING ADULTS. And how do you know it isn't hereditary/genetic. It has not been proven either way so let's not even use that as an argument. Oh, and by the way, maybe being attracted to children is not a choice for pedophiles but ACTING upon those feelings is wrong because it is a child who does not fully understand the implications of sex. Two gay adults understand any and all implications/consequences.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

hereditary??? think about that for a minute. how can two gay people pass that gene on...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

While I'm not getting into the whole it's a choice to be gay vs people are biologically gay. Lots of gay people have had children.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

ok, but that's only possible through sex with the opposite gender. gay people physically can't have children together...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

think about this. lots of gay men get married to women and have children with them because they are scared of coming out of the closet, so if it is hereditary that'd be how it gets passed down.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You also dont have to be gay to carry the gene, We carry many genes that are recessive and do not come through. Two straight people can have a gay gene and pass it on to their child, who may or may not be gay.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

being gay is not inherited. you can't pass on ANY genes if you're strictly gay (outside of getting an egg donor or something of the sort)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

did you even read any of the posts above yours? theyclearly outline that genes are passed on. if not form one couple, from another.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yeah there are pedos out there who have never touched children ever, some of them are sickened by themselves because they know how horrible it is.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Acting on pedaphiliac urges is a choice just like acting on any urge. Straight people have urges to have sex with eachother, but that's between two consenting adults. Just like gay people who have sex with eachother, two consenting adults. "Consenting" is the key word here, children arn't capable of consenting to sex. Stop comparing pedophiles to homosexuals in an anti-gay rights argument. Thank you.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It's kind of a choice, I mean whilst they can't say to themselves "I find that child attractive, but that's wrong, so I shall stop finding them attractive." then can pretty easily say to themselves "I would like to make sexual advances on that child, but that's wrong, so I'll not."

by Anonymous 13 years ago

so logically, a gay person could remain abstinant and pure, right? i don't have a problem with that.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yeah, they could, but so could straight people, or cats, but why should they?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Exactly. I can think damn that guy is sexy and not rape him at gun point. You can't control urges but you can control actions.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

This post infuriates me.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Your post is half true. Yes, if you find a sexual attraction to children, it is not your fault. However, it does not mean they should act on it. But now here is the difference. Gays are not posing a threat to society. Pedofiles are. Pedofiles are raping children, usually murdering them after, and feel no remorse. Gays are simply attracted to those of the same gender, and not harming anyone. So, in the words of William Shakspeare, "Shut the fack up.".

by Anonymous 13 years ago

lol... I love the last part... :)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You were born an idiot, so you can't help it. But according to your logic, I can still hate you. :D

by Anonymous 13 years ago

AMEN!!!!!!!! Thank you!

by Anonymous 13 years ago

go find your dick and suck it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

We were learning in psych today (I'm in my sophomore year of college) that there is much evidence to suggest that being gay is caused by hormonal imbalancess in the womb. Like the person said above me, a pair of identical twins have a very likely chance of both being gay, even if they were seperated at birth. Also, there is no correlation to suggest having gay parents makes the child grow up to be "gay", so it isn't someones environment influencing them. Literally, the last sentence of the chapter said something along the lines of "although nothing is completely proven yet, it is certain that there is more evidence suggesting homosexuality is not a choice"

by Anonymous 13 years ago

"evidence to suggest that being gay is caused by hormonal imbalancess in the womb." there..that settles it...if it's not a choice after all, it's causes by IMBALANCES..therefore...not normal.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

because, you know, it is morally defensible to hate on a group of people because they are not considered normal.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm sorry...where exactly, in my post, does the word "hate" come up? I think you migt need to read that again.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

that would be called a figure of speech. fine, allow me to put this another way. from your reply there you seem to be saying that anything considered abnormal is bad, and we would be justified in relegating it. why should be make someone a second class citizen for not fitting the norm?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Everyone has diffrent levels of hormones.... not everyone is the same.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Every one has mutations. If you didn't have genetic mutations, you'd be a freak.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I think that the problem here is that no one seems to know what "comparing is". When you compare two things, they don't necessarily have to be exactly the same. You could say that life is like a slice of pizza. Does that mean that you can eat your life? No! It that they are kinda the same. What the OP is saying is that when pedophiles are born being one, and gays are born being gay, why is it okay be born with one thing and not the other? You can't help what is involuntarily, but you can help acting on that impulse.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

(#785352) N8TheGr8 Uhm I'm the one who posted about the hormonal imbalances, and although it makes people different, who the hell are you to say what is normal? I wasn't in any way suggesting being gay is some sort of handicapped. I was simply stating how much evidence there is that homosexuality isn't a choice.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm not "saying what's normal" in the sense of detirmining what's normal. Rather, I'm 'Stating' what's normal.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

in the accusatory sense of belonging, "Who are you tosay that pedophilia isn't normal??"

by Anonymous 13 years ago

it's so annoying how people compare being gay to a pedophile. They are two very different things.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

with gay people, there is no victim. with pedophilia, there is.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

ok gay people are fantastic.. pedophilia is illegal, harmful AND SERIOUS.. not even close to the same thing as homosexuality..

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It is HIGHLY common if both were born those urges...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Hey! Hey! Gays don't impose on the rights and safety of others! If they, by chance, went around raping children, then they would not deserve the same rights as anyone else. Gays are simply expressing what they want to express without bothering ANYONE.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

OP is a modern age genius.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

While neither side is necessarily proven, being gay most likely isn't a choice. However, it's not completely uncontrollable. People are born with certain personalities, but they could change to a certain degree if they wanted to. With enough self-convinving, a lot of things are possible (That is not to suggest that people who are gay should try to convince themselves they are not, just that a lot of this argument boils down to nurture vs. nature, which I believe is a combination of both, so in essence, it "can" partly be a choice (maybe, just sort of rambling here), if other things culminate with it.)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Every single living thing that doesn't reproduce asexually has a strong sex drive. Family environment can't override several million years of evolution.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Being gay and being a pedophile are completely different. A pedophile is hurting a child and scarring that child for life, while being gay is hurting nobody.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I second this post...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

*faceplam* Alright, you don't wake up and decide that you're gay and you don't wake up and decide that you're a paedophile. Fine. But even though they have that in common, they are two completely different things. You can't compare them like that, because the outcome of an adult acting on their desires for a child is much worse than two consenting adults of the same gender acting on their desires for each other.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Why can't it be hereditary? "Straight" genes may be dominant while "homosexual" genes aren't, therefore people with both could pass the homosexual genes onto their child. I have no clue if this is any way correct, but I'm just pointing out a way this might in fact be hereditary. It's sort of like having a brunette mother and father while the child is a blond.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

(My name is optional): It wasn't referring to whether or not it is a choice- i believe it might be but i think it's common to have it as a reaction to bad experiences, whatever- the argument is about whether or not that's a valid point. because maybe they can't control who they like, but they certainly choose to act on that.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

This argument can be shut down with one word. Consent.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

so i suppose if the innocent five year old said yes to the 40 year old man everything would be alright?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Five year-olds can't consent because they are incapable of making an informed decision at that age.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

but using the logic that all people are created equal, why should a five year old's consent be any different (note, i'm NOT in any way condoning pedophilic actions, im just trying to show the connection)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I LOVE THE OP. Anw, this is what I think: nobody is born gay. No studies can prove that,no studies can prove otherwise either so the argument has the possibilty of being valid. Being gay, to me, is a result of failed parenting. Many of the gay people I know had some family problems like their dads left them, causing them to hate guys and turn lesbians. That is their CHOICE. And the point that people always make about "oh why don't u try to like girls and see if that's a choice!" is completely stupid. If you're desperate enough, you would.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Hahahahhahaha no. Look above at some previous comments, some studies point to it being hereditary. And not every gay person has family problems. I had an awesome childhood, and I'm bisexual. And I know so many amazing GBLT people who had amazing childhoods as well, so I doubt that they were 'desperate enough' to escape the opposite gender.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Actually, everyone I know that is gay or lesbian was sexually abused in some way. It's not something they share with everyone of course, so that's why most people don't know. I'm not saying that that ALWAYS causes the attraction (people can get random hormones) but what pushes it further. Why do you think it was so prevalent in the end of the Greek empire? Young men were forced to serve in the military and it was "taught" to them by older men in the military so basically they were raped and continued in that fashion.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Key words: Everybody YOU know. YOU. And yes, some people end up having homosexual tendencies after being abused by someone of their gender. This is obviously not always so, just because that's all YOU'VE seen. Explain how so many animals are gay/bisexual, hm?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

First point: Ya, I know. I was just giving a reason that nobody has listed yet. Secondly: They do it show dominance. Most animals don't enjoy sex so why would they do it if it's not going to make anything happen? To show that they're in control.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

explain how ANIMALS are gay or bisexual or lesbian???? are u serious? This is not even a valid debate, since animals only have TENDENCIES.....not MORALS or ETHICS.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Couldn't agree more.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You've obviously never met a gay person.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Happen to have three gay friends thank you. not even making it up

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Are you the Anonymous person I was replying to?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

oh. woops. nvmnd.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

While being gay isn't always a choice there are some people whom, after being bullied for "being gay" even when they aren't start to think that they are. That is when it is a choice. I chose to stay straight and there are people who are surprised at that based on all the shit I've gone through.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You didn't choose to be strait. You were born straight.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You can't chose who you are attracted to. The reason people say 'they didn't chose to be gay' is because homophobics tend to call being gay unnatural, when it is not. It is quite natural. So you get homophobics to stop saying that and maybe everyone else will stop defending them that way.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

the basis of the argument isn't so much about whether or not it's a choice. it's more about whether or not it should be acted upon.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

True. Well put!

by Anonymous 13 years ago